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COVID-19 Thread

So, if we deal with it now, the following waves will be much more manageable. Lessons learned from the Spanish Flu. The first wave was minimal and garnered almost no attention, the 2nd was world-wide lethal.

Just watched a documentary about the 1918 Flu today that was originally released a year ago.

2/3rds of the people who died from it in the US were between 15-40 years old. It hit the young and healthy particularly hard. Estimates of 50-100 million worldwide deaths would be more like 200-450 million today if adjusted for population. India lost around 20 million alone.

It originally broke out in 1917 in the US in far western Kansas and the East coast about the same time. The US was ramping up from about 150,000 soldiers to 4 million for WW1. It took off in many of these training camps and spread via the railroads as the troops were moved out and over towards Europe. It did not come from Spain even though called the Spanish Flu. Recently the latest thinking is that it came from migrant workers who came to the US from..................CHINA.

The US Government avoiding talking about the flu and even tried to suppress news reports from newspapers. If they had only been open there could have been much more hand washing and social distancing which could have cut down the spread of it and saved lives. They were focused on big rallies and parades selling War Bonds to fund our involvment in the War once we entered the conflict. Back then it was not "fake news," it was NO news.

Sad that the leaders who should have been doing things to help the population were trying to suppress information and hence caused more deaths than necessary.

Edit: Forgot to mention that many of the people who contracted this virus might show symptoms and die within a 24 hour period. It was sometimes extremely fast developing.
 
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Wife went home early yesterday as her last PT was discharged...normally, they send the resident docs home but I guess it was her turn. Not seeing IC get slammed yet.

My stepmom is in the hospital in Ames at Mary Greeley. She ended up catching an infection that causes the runs...it’s contagious so they are being careful but is not related to Covid...she should be out by Monday. My sister and her husband work there, conditions are ok. I was over there this week moving them to a new place. Just real bad timing but the movers were ready to roll and her doctors felt it would be smart to get it done while she is in the hospital so she wouldn’t be stressed when she got out.
 
Btw... A sister of my ex is a doctor in Detroit. She claims two clinic employees got the deads from this virus.
 
I'll own up to being one who "yammers" on and on. I will not own up to being one who only posts negatives. I post what I post because up till now I have time on my hands and I have been trying to report honestly what I have found hoping the info may benefit others who have not been able to follow so closely.

Your version of what you consider negative may not be anyone else's version. We all have out own misperceptions and biases that we don't see in ourselves. Me included.

If my yammering has offended anyone, I apologize. Just trying to add info to the discussion. Please feel free to put me on ignore or skip over anything I post. I have no problem with what I have posted or the state of my emotions.

Those who think they can figure out what is going on in anothers mind or emotions from what is being posted over the internet may be decieving themselves about their own abilities.

Not replying to you only, Old Fan, but everyone in general.

FWIW, it was not you that I was referring to as a "yammerer". I don't care how much someone posts, the ones that I think have lost touch are virtually 100% negative about everything and extremely condescending to anyone that isn't in 100% lockstep with them.
 
Finally...................

Our dogs can now tell us............

Sit.....Stay...............:)
 
Not sure the difference if any between chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, but saw where people in Africa were buying it and using it and it can be fatal. Dosage of 500 mg. twice a day and doubling that dose caused fatalities.

-OH. Can be a big difference. It makes organic substances like ethane water soluble. Ethanol is one -OH added to ethane, which makes it dissolvable in the blood and quickly absorbed.

The magatards have been taking it already. It’s like the Heaven’s Gate cult all over again.

https://time.com/5808688/chloroquine-phosphate-coronavirus-death/
 
FWIW, it was not you that I was referring to as a "yammerer". I don't care how much someone posts, the ones that I think have lost touch are virtually 100% negative about everything and extremely condescending to anyone that isn't in 100% lockstep with them.

sure sounds like you just described Donald Trump.
 
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The lockdowns are less than 2 weeks old and didn’t all happen at once so I’m not sure I agree. But I might be wrong. Just expected the effects to begin over the next week or two..

Well lockdowns going well in France.....12 days on lockdown.



Ok....maybe they need to work on it a bit more.............:confused:

So maybe counting down time from first lockdown day may be a bit tricky for seeing results.
 
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Wife went home early yesterday as her last PT was discharged...normally, they send the resident docs home but I guess it was her turn. Not seeing IC get slammed yet.

My stepmom is in the hospital in Ames at Mary Greeley. She ended up catching an infection that causes the runs...it’s contagious so they are being careful but is not related to Covid...she should be out by Monday. My sister and her husband work there, conditions are ok. I was over there this week moving them to a new place. Just real bad timing but the movers were ready to roll and her doctors felt it would be smart to get it done while she is in the hospital so she wouldn’t be stressed when she got out.

Just saw The President has authorized the Pentagon to call up retired miltary if needed.

Better get those boots spit shined quickly......;)
 
Raoult is a complete fraud. I have links to scientific publications that have documented that in this thread.

the governor of michigan did what she did because people with rheumatoid arthritis and lupus need
Chloroquine. Maybe the we could use the Defense Act to get pharmaceutical companies to increase the supply?
And people with Covid19 don't need it? Let the doctors decide. Not a politician. It is hard to get millions of dollars for a vaccine if some already available drug will do the trick. It is hard to funnel money into the hands of donors of vaccines, if something else does the trick. I am not saying it (the drug) works. I am saying, let the doctors decide what they want to prescribe. I would trust them before I trust a politician when it comes to prescribing a drug.
 
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and if you chose to ignore the fact that Raoult published this paper in a Journal for which he is an editor, WITHOUT peer review, here is what you can’t ignore.

1 person with COVID that was in the treatment group of 26, DIED during treatment. So that’s death rate of 4%.

as you have pointed out COVID may have a lower mortality rate than we think because we aren’t testing the asymptomatic. So if you take the HIGH estimates of mortality in the general population at 2%, then the treatment group had DOUBLE the mortality rate of the untreated! You can hang all the hope you want on this “cure” but it MUST go through clinical trials for precisely this reason.

But you wouldn’t know that if you didn’t read the results in the paper and Raoult threw the dead patient out of the analysis. That’s f-u-c-k-i-n-g shady. Yet Faux News has you Hook. Line. And Sinker.
I am not familiar with the report you are referencing, but I can take you at your word. It would be nice to see a link to it. My question is this. 1 out of 26 died (the article I referenced said 80 people with Covid19), what happened to the other 25. Does a drug have to cure everyone before it is worth using? I am sure people die all the time on certain drugs. Is it because of the drug or other causes? The article I submitted said the person was at a point where the virus was irreversible. What exactly does that mean?
I understand the reasoning behind extensive testing before making a drug mainstream. Does that mean a doctor cannot do his own research and make a suggestion to a patient and let the patient decide what they want to do? Are the laws that strict that the gov't tells doctors and patients what they can and cannot do? Serious question. I do not know what the answer is.
Anyway, I posted the article to let people know that this virus is not such a mystery that no one knows what to do or how to help people.
As a side note. I do not read or watch Fox News. Stop trying to change the subject and insult me. If my article is wrong or filled with incorrect statements, let me know. I appreciate you bringing the other article or report to my attention. I would like to read it if possible.
 
India went on lockdown recently.

Let's check in and see how things are going there.

Bus station in Delhi..........



Gol dang it I Love how well social distancing is being applied around the world.
 
I am not familiar with the report you are referencing, but I can take you at your word. It would be nice to see a link to it. My question is this. 1 out of 26 died (the article I referenced said 80 people with Covid19), what happened to the other 25. Does a drug have to cure everyone before it is worth using? I am sure people die all the time on certain drugs. Is it because of the drug or other causes? The article I submitted said the person was at a point where the virus was irreversible. What exactly does that mean?
I understand the reasoning behind extensive testing before making a drug mainstream. Does that mean a doctor cannot do his own research and make a suggestion to a patient and let the patient decide what they want to do? Are the laws that strict that the gov't tells doctors and patients what they can and cannot do? Serious question. I do not know what the answer is.
Anyway, I posted the article to let people know that this virus is not such a mystery that no one knows what to do or how to help people.
As a side note. I do not read or watch Fox News. Stop trying to change the subject and insult me. If my article is wrong or filled with incorrect statements, let me know. I appreciate you bringing the other article or report to my attention. I would like to read it if possible.

It is not that this article is incorrect, it is that this so called “study” is pretty worthless as described by the author. The author describes that no controls were used. That makes the study basically worthless. No one can say that his treatment may have caused the patients to get worse rather than giving improvement. Almost all patients with Covid-19 get better at some point. The only exceptions are those that die.
 
FWIW, it was not you that I was referring to as a "yammerer". I don't care how much someone posts, the ones that I think have lost touch are virtually 100% negative about everything and extremely condescending to anyone that isn't in 100% lockstep with them.
We WILL get through this. We always do. What's most required is patience.
 
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I am not familiar with the report you are referencing, but I can take you at your word. It would be nice to see a link to it. My question is this. 1 out of 26 died (the article I referenced said 80 people with Covid19), what happened to the other 25. Does a drug have to cure everyone before it is worth using? I am sure people die all the time on certain drugs. Is it because of the drug or other causes? The article I submitted said the person was at a point where the virus was irreversible. What exactly does that mean?
I understand the reasoning behind extensive testing before making a drug mainstream. Does that mean a doctor cannot do his own research and make a suggestion to a patient and let the patient decide what they want to do? Are the laws that strict that the gov't tells doctors and patients what they can and cannot do? Serious question. I do not know what the answer is.
Anyway, I posted the article to let people know that this virus is not such a mystery that no one knows what to do or how to help people.
As a side note. I do not read or watch Fox News. Stop trying to change the subject and insult me. If my article is wrong or filled with incorrect statements, let me know. I appreciate you bringing the other article or report to my attention. I would like to read it if possible.

All you have to do in the results is read the first paragraph. A significant number of nonresponders were omitted from the analysis. THEY PURPOSELY OMITTED PATIENTS THAT DIDNT HAVE THE DESIRED OUTCOME. When you test ~25 and one dies and another quits because they can’t tolerate the treatment, THAT’S A BIG DEAL! That’s nearly 10% of the treatment group and that’s EXACTLY why we do safety studies within the context of rigorous clinical trials. You don’t want a medical system where doctors are prescribing meds for diseases that the drugs haven’t been rigorously tested against. We don’t prescribe medicine based on anecdotal evidence.

https://www.mediterranee-infection....2020/03/Hydroxychloroquine_final_DOI_IJAA.pdf
 
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Ha...retired medical personnel.
Actually they are not asking only retired medical personnel. My old First Sargent got a letter asking him to volunteer to come back in for a while. He started his military career as an MP and reclassed to EOD. He retired as a command Sargent Major so maybe they want his experience managing troops? I was surprised they asked him with his background.
 
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The lockdowns are less than 2 weeks old and didn’t all happen at once so I’m not sure I agree. But I might be wrong. Just expected the effects to begin over the next week or two.

Agreed. A lot of the big sports cancellations were like the 11th/12th, and a lot of schools started closing soon after that. Maybe not full on lockdown but I think we're now right around 2 weeks since a lot of people started taking it more seriously. Hopefully next week shows some slowdown in at least the number of new cases (although if we are testing more then maybe that won't be the case).
 
St. Louis lost a 1 year old to the virus, confirmed case.

I think the early on information that this virus only killed old people will turn out to be one of the worst pieces of information that has been released.

Read recently that something like 44% of the NYC hospitalizations were under 50.
 
I can’t speak for Europe but in the USA we can crowd source the hell out of a harvest. Processing facilities like feed mills and the like have been ordered open. Most of our chicken for example is produced by integrators and they are in the same boat. Still cranking out feed and in turn food. Those who supply these food businesses must stay open as well, to support them with critical ingredients, parts, etc.

These companies can’t shut down or people will starve. The earlier comments about fast food were ignorant. The one saying people should just eat what’s on their shelf and fridge was other worldly stupid.

Don't know about crowd sourcing for this, but there may be some unemployed that might show up to work.

A lot of eggs, chicken and pork are done in confinement systems with minimal human contact, but the processing gets more problematic.

Starting to see a couple cases of the virus show up in some of the Meat processing plants. Some work elbow to elbow and hard to do safe distancing. Not many will switch to these occupations as somewhat low paying and very hard work.
 
Seems like a fairly large number of local restaurants here in my part of St. Louis have stopped doing their carry out and delivery after only a week or so of trial after they were ordered to close their dining rooms.

Guessing not enough business to stay open to pay employees and other bills apparently.
 
EUSKGJGXQAEIovA


Not only your wife/girlfriend upset about you being home so much recently..........:eek:
 
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St. Louis lost a 1 year old to the virus, confirmed case.

I think the early on information that this virus only killed old people will turn out to be one of the worst pieces of information that has been released.

Read recently that something like 44% of the NYC hospitalizations were under 50.

Illinois?

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/baby-us-dies-covid19-coronavirus

Confirmed to have it, but not yet confirmed if that was the cause of death.

Even if it is, while it’s not “only” old people, most studies still do seem to point towards young and healthy people being an extremely low risk of death.

The hospitalization number is troubling though, and further evidence of the need for social distancing.

I think what’s most concerning to me and maybe still a bit of an unknown in terms of the death risk particularly for young people is the “underlying conditions” piece. It seems relatively common things like asthma, being overweight, smoking, and high blood pressure are all risk factors. Maybe this finally puts an end to cigarettes.
 
Illinois?

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/baby-us-dies-covid19-coronavirus

Confirmed to have it, but not yet confirmed if that was the cause of death.

Even if it is, while it’s not “only” old people, most studies still do seem to point towards young and healthy people being an extremely low risk of death.

The hospitalization number is troubling though, and further evidence of the need for social distancing.

I think what’s most concerning to me and maybe still a bit of an unknown in terms of the death risk particularly for young people is the “underlying conditions” piece. It seems relatively common things like asthma, being overweight, smoking, and high blood pressure are all risk factors. Maybe this finally puts an end to cigarettes.

add diabetes to your list. They are seeing a large number of deaths in New Orleans in diabetics.

https://www.fox8live.com/2020/03/28/ldh-diabetes-leading-underlying-condition-covid-related-deaths/
 
A study of the 1918 flu shows a second wave of sickness and death due to social distancing efforts being lifted after initial progress is made in slowing the spread of the virus.

https://api.nationalgeographic.com/...andemic-coronavirus?__twitter_impression=true

that’s cool, thanks for finding that. I have always seen the Philly and StL graphs compared but not all the other cities. Remember too, at that time there was no flu vaccine and no drugs to prevent spread like tamiflu. The inability to control the spread of the pathogen through medical intervention means it is more reasonable to compare COVID to the 1918 Influenza pandemic than it is to compare COVID to Influenza today.
 
I think the early on information that this virus only killed old people will turn out to be one of the worst pieces of information that has been released.

I think that’s a little disingenuous, isn’t it? I’m not sure it was so definite.


A lot of eggs, chicken and pork are done in confinement systems with minimal human contact, but the processing gets more problematic.

They aren’t “done in confinement systems.” They might live there but they don’t magically grow there.

There are more Chickens than people in the USA—someone needs to feed them. And it takes a massive amount of feed to do so. So the feed mills need to run, and the feed delivered. This takes more people. And the equipment which manufactures the feed needs to stay operational so those manufacturers need to stay open. More people. Oh, and the chicken has to be distributed, too.

In short, it takes a lot of people to put food on our plates. Take any of the above out of the equation in this example and it’s a big, big problem. The ignorance of “well just go get food from your fridge” is astounding. (I know that wasn’t you, Kwood)
 
I think that’s a little disingenuous, isn’t it? I’m not sure it was so definite.




They aren’t “done in confinement systems.” They might live there but they don’t magically grow there.

There are more Chickens than people in the USA—someone needs to feed them. And it takes a massive amount of feed to do so. So the feed mills need to run, and the feed delivered. This takes more people. And the equipment which manufactures the feed needs to stay operational so those manufacturers need to stay open. More people. Oh, and the chicken has to be distributed, too.

In short, it takes a lot of people to put food on our plates. Take any of the above out of the equation in this example and it’s a big, big problem. The ignorance of “well just go get food from your fridge” is astounding. (I know that wasn’t you, Kwood)

if you have Netflix, the episode of Rotten about the poultry industry will blow your mind if you know nothing about the poultry industry in this Country.
 
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