Cruz's Defense of Eligibility Is Interesting

[TJ8869]

If Cruz is considered a "natural born" American citizen, he is then also a "natural born" Cuban citizen.

As I stated earlier, if he met the requirements for being a natural born Cuban citizen then he was also a natural born Cuban citizen. I don't know if Cuba granted birthright citizenship to foreign-born children of citizen fathers, and even if they did I don't know if his father was still considered a Cuban citizen in 1970.

 

[lucas80]

I too think the birther accusations are silly, just as they were with Obama.

However, if Cruz were a democrat he'd be painted as the son of a Cuban national who worked as a spy for the Soviet Union, and then at least tangentially, link Ted Cruz to the Russians well.

He does wear a lot of red ties.

Chris Matthews echoed my feelings on this tonight. Where was Ted Cruz when Donald Trump was running around claiming President Obama wasn't really a citizen? I don't recall any strong declarations that it was settled law that Obama was a natural born citizen.
Terry Branstad weighed in today by saying the citizenship of Cruz is, "fair game". Curious what 'Ol Terry chooses to get involved in.

 

[theIowaHawk]

If Cruz is considered a "natural born" American citizen, he is then also a "natural born" Cuban citizen.

Except for the obvious fact of, you know, that being up to Cuba, not the US.

 

[3 and Out on D]

Except for the obvious fact of, you know, that being up to Cuba, not the US.

Of course that's true, but if by our standards we consider him a "natural born" American, those same standards then meanw also consider him to be a "natural born" Cuban.

 

[TJ8869]

Of course that's true, but if by our standards we consider him a "natural born" American, those same standards then meanw also consider him to be a "natural born" Cuban.

Do you mean natural born Cuban in an actual legal sense? Or do you mean natural born Cuban in more of an "I'm drunk and just blurting stuff out" kind of way?

 

[IowaHawkeyeFBnBB4Life]

Here is what Rand Paul says...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/11/politics/rand-paul-ted-cruz-canadian-born-citizenship/

 

[ottumwan in tx]

yep, and look at what they did to rand paul for saying that. he gets the boot! down to the little kids' table

 

[theIowaHawk]

Of course that's true, but if by our standards we consider him a "natural born" American, those same standards then meanw also consider him to be a "natural born" Cuban.

This doesn't make sense, the US doesn't determine whether someone is a "natural born" ____________________________ anything, other than American.

But let's give your conclusion the benefit, what is your point? That if we think he is a natural born _____________________________ that he is disqualified? As I posted earlier, if Pablow, me and the articles I posted are correct, the founders necessarily understood that someone born in another country could be a natural born citizen of that country, and that they had no problem with that. Their only concern appears to be whether someone is a natural born citizen of the US, it isn't with exclusion to all other nations. Our founding fathers were by necessity citizens of another nation.

 

[theIowaHawk]

In response to Cruz's quote: ""Cruz is a natural-born Canadian," Paul said. "He was naturally born there. The question is, can you be natural-born Canadian and natural-born American at the same time? Maybe, but I think the courts will have to decide it, because it's never really been decided."

I ask why? Why do the courts have to decide it? The courts aren't required to determine every single legal issue that may arise, they are to determine controversies ... so why make this a controversy?

 

[ottumwan in tx]

In response to Cruz's quote: ""Cruz is a natural-born Canadian," Paul said. "He was naturally born there. The question is, can you be natural-born Canadian and natural-born American at the same time? Maybe, but I think the courts will have to decide it, because it's never really been decided."

I ask why? Why do the courts have to decide it? The courts aren't required to determine every single legal issue that may arise, they are to determine controversies ... so why make this a controversy?

no, only marriage

 

[theIowaHawk]

no, only marriage

What is only marriage? Are Rand and Ted getting married?

 

[Sooner-Be-Dead]

In response to Cruz's quote: ""Cruz is a natural-born Canadian," Paul said. "He was naturally born there. The question is, can you be natural-born Canadian and natural-born American at the same time? Maybe, but I think the courts will have to decide it, because it's never really been decided."

I ask why? Why do the courts have to decide it? The courts aren't required to determine every single legal issue that may arise, they are to determine controversies ... so why make this a controversy?

Please nominate him.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Here is what Rand Paul says...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/11/politics/rand-paul-ted-cruz-canadian-born-citizenship/

I saw a whole bunch of clips from Rand Paul but somehow missed what he said on the birther thing. What did he say? Or did you mean the natural-born Canadian quip?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

In response to Cruz's quote: ""Cruz is a natural-born Canadian," Paul said. "He was naturally born there. The question is, can you be natural-born Canadian and natural-born American at the same time? Maybe, but I think the courts will have to decide it, because it's never really been decided."

I ask why? Why do the courts have to decide it? The courts aren't required to determine every single legal issue that may arise, they are to determine controversies ... so why make this a controversy?

To make it harder for Cruz to become the next American Emperor.

Think of all the tools added to the Presidential Tool Box under Bush and Obama. Do you really want Cruz having that kind of power?

 

[theIowaHawk]

To make it harder for Cruz to become the next American Emperor.

Think of all the tools added to the Presidential Tool Box under Bush and Obama. Do you really want Cruz having that kind of power?

No, but I believe in the people making that decision, not me.

I get that it could be a legitimate controversy, but it doesn't have to be. Candidates like Paul make it seem like it is out of their control...when it is entirely up to them (and state's balloters).

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

No, but I believe in the people making that decision, not me.

I get that it could be a legitimate controversy, but it doesn't have to be. Candidates like Paul make it seem like it is out of their control...when it is entirely up to them (and state's balloters).

Personally, I think Cruz is a Castro mole. All the religious nonsense and the wingnut nonsense is just a ploy to get him in power where he'll be able to turn the US into a communist nation.

Russia and Cuba and China were awful places to try out communism. But imagine if America decided to make communism work. I mean we're America, darn it. We'd do a great job of it. Everyone would love it.

Cruz is the man to get us there.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Raul has moles?

Unfortunately, Mr. Ted completely and inherently believes in what he says. It is quite astounding.

 

[3 and Out on D]

Do you mean natural born Cuban in an actual legal sense? Or do you mean natural born Cuban in more of an "I'm drunk and just blurting stuff out" kind of way?

I'm not drunk now nor was I drunk at 0530 this morning when I posted this.

 

[TJ8869]

I'm not drunk now nor was I drunk at 0530 this morning when I posted this.

So you were stone cold sober and still didn't understand the concept, even though two different people explained it to you after the first time you posted it? It's too bad you weren't drunk. Drunk would have been a perfectly understandable reason.

 

[3 and Out on D]

So you were stone cold sober and still didn't understand the concept, even though two different people explained it to you after the first time you posted it? It's too bad you weren't drunk. Drunk would have been a perfectly understandable reason.

Are you having a hard time accepting that the person you support or may support for president is as much a Cuban as an American? Think about it.

 

[TJ8869]

Are you having a hard time accepting that the person you support or may support for president is as much a Cuban as an American? Think about it.

1) I don't support Cruz for President. I simply recognize his right to run for the office.
2) I couldn't care less that he's part Cuban, for the same reason I couldn't care less that Barack Obama is part Kenyan.
3) The point of this is that you keep insisting that by our standards Cruz is a natural born Cuban. As theIowaHawk and I keep explaining, it's not up to us to decide whether Cruz is a natural born Cuban. That's entirely Cuba's call.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Are you having a hard time accepting that the person you support or may support for president is as much a Cuban as an American? Think about it.

No, why would I have a problem with that? I understand that some people would have a problem with it as xenophobia is rampant.

But I certainly wouldn't say he is "as much a Cuban as an American" considering he has never lived in Cuba, his father obtained asylum 13 years before Ted's birth, and he lived in the US since he was, what, 4 years old? I'd say a person who has lived 41 years in the US much more an American than, well, any other nationality.

BTW, the Washington Post put up this opinion piece which entirely disagrees with my position: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...84a7d0-b7af-11e5-99f3-184bc379b12d_story.html
Good read for WWJD.

 

[hawkcub]

Most legal scholors say if one of your parents are US citizens you are a citizen. No matter where you are born. The ones saying differently are agenda driven or Crack pots. Stuff like this is why I can't stand Trump. This is probably agenda and crack pot driven. He did a similar thing with Obama.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Most legal scholors say if one of your parents are US citizens you are a citizen. No matter where you are born. The ones saying differently are agenda driven or Crack pots. Stuff like this is why I can't stand Trump. This is probably agenda and crack pot driven. He did a similar thing with Obama.

Check out that Wapo opinion, it is pretty interesting and well thought, I wouldn't call it crackpot.

 

[TJ8869]

Check out that Wapo opinion, it is pretty interesting and well thought, I wouldn't call it crackpot.

While I wouldn't call it crackpot, it's not very legally sound either. It's based primarily on the opinion of an 18th century English jurist who believed that one could only be a natural born British subject if they were born on Commonwealth soil. That doesn't exactly translate to 21st century America.

In my mind this is a very simple concept. If you are automatically entitled to birthright citizenship on the day you are born then you are a natural born citizen. In the United States you can be automatically eligible for birthright citizenship two ways - by blood or by soil. If you are born on American soil then you are a natural born American citizen by soil. If one or both of your biological parents are American citizens then you are a natural born American citizen by blood.

Ted Cruz's mother was born in Delaware, so unless she renounced her American citizenship prior to Ted's birth, Ted is a natural born American citizen by blood.

 

[theIowaHawk]

While I wouldn't call it crackpot, it's not very legally sound either. It's based primarily on the opinion of an 18th century English jurist who believed that one could only be a natural born British subject if they were born on Commonwealth soil. That doesn't exactly translate to 21st century America.

In my mind this is a very simple concept. If you are automatically entitled to birthright citizenship on the day you are born then you are a natural born citizen. In the United States you can be automatically eligible for birthright citizenship two ways - by blood or by soil. If you are born on American soil then you are a natural born American citizen by soil. If one or both of your biological parents are American citizens then you are a natural born American citizen by blood.

Ted Cruz's mother was born in Delaware, so unless she renounced her American citizenship prior to Ted's birth, Ted is a natural born American citizen by blood.

I don't think it is based primarily on that. It specifically points out that the article I posted earlier in this thread relies heavily on recently enacted English law instead of longstanding precedent. Of course the argument doesn't translate to 21st century America, as it is discussing the history of the clause and its proper meaning, not what it should mean today.

I agree with you on your simply concept, wholeheartedly, but I can recognize valid arguments from the other side. Also, I'm all for an Amendment party.

 

[joelbc1]

Am I that naive or what? I thought that as long as one is born to a US citizen, that child was automatically an US citizen. When did life get so friggin' complicated. I can't believe this is an issue. Did the world suddenly get dumb just recently?

 

[naturalmwa]

Yikes. I guess we can throw out the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act then. The Constitution doesn't expressly give blacks the right to vote and own property and whatnot. So it's tough noogies for negroes. Better luck in the next revolution, fellas.

Are you sure? I think it does.

 

[naturalmwa]

Am I that naive or what? I thought that as long as one is born to a US citizen, that child was automatically an US citizen. When did life get so friggin' complicated. I can't believe this is an issue. Did the world suddenly get dumb just recently?

It's been dumb for a very long time. We aren't even special in our stupidity.

 

[joelbc1]

It's been dumb for a very long time. We aren't even special in our stupidity.

Maybe I should just turn in my passport. And my driver's license.

 

[naturalmwa]

Why is that?

Because they were all born in another country.

 

[naturalmwa]

Maybe I should just turn in my passport. And my driver's license.

I don't see how that will help. People are dumb everywhere. It's just the natural human condition. I spent the day listening to the story when the Anabaptists took over Munster, Germany and went full commie Mormon cutting off heads. This topic doesn't even rank.

 

[TJ8869]

Because they were all born in another country.

As I posted in another thread, Article 2 Section 1 of the Constitution specifically addressed that very issue:

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

All of our early Presidents were born in the colonies (mostly Virginia and Massachusetts) and became U.S. citizens when the Constitution was adopted. It was not a problem at all.

 

[joelbc1]

As I posted in another thread, Article 2 Section 1 of the Constitution specifically addressed that very issue:

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

All of our early Presidents were born in the colonies (mostly Virginia and Massachusetts) and became U.S. citizens when the Constitution was adopted. It was not a problem at all.

The Constitution also talks about the ownership of guns and a "well regulated militia" TJ...........Hells bells son....your are an American because you are born by an American citizen......What sense does it make that an AMERICAN CITIZEN gives birth in China to her son/daughter and that child NOT be an American........'cause he/she sure as hell are not Chinese.
If your born at sea......are you a citizen of the ocean? If you're born in an airplane over international airspace...are you a citizen of the world? Jeeeeebus Keeeerist, this is no "reach" at all.......you are who you are born to. Does the baby of a resident of Texas who is born in Oklahoma, have to fill out special paperwork to become a citizen of Texas? I bet not......

 

[theIowaHawk]

The Constitution also talks about the ownership of guns and a "well regulated militia" TJ...........Hells bells son....your are an American because you are born by an American citizen......What sense does it make that an AMERICAN CITIZEN gives birth in China to her son/daughter and that child NOT be an American........'cause he/she sure as hell are not Chinese.
If your born at sea......are you a citizen of the ocean? If you're born in an airplane over international airspace...are you a citizen of the world? Jeeeeebus Keeeerist, this is no "reach" at all.......you are who you are born to. Does the baby of a resident of Texas who is born in Oklahoma, have to fill out special paperwork to become a citizen of Texas? I bet not......

Why are they "sure as hell not Chinese"? Not stereotypical enough?