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ESPN TV Coverage - Unacceptable

Vodka I'm with you. I watched almost exclusively online. If I could not have gotten the feed and had to watch the tv I would not have been happy. I very much appreciate what ESPN does, but to add a one minute beak between matches to get commercials in or interviews in is not a big deal. They did that every other session. Why not the third place matches for tv?

Accept what they give you is really not a wrestlers mentality. Work harder and smarter and earn more. Expect more. Reevaluate. Make adjustments. Improve your strengths. Minimize your weaknesses. Build a better product for next season.

Don't tell me how an ESPN guy explained it to you. Tell me how you fought to get the intros that mean nothing down to 7 seconds from 20 seconds. Think like a wrestler. I'm sure they have their special sauce. Help them make it better. Or you could write a long response how Cory Clark should have been happy with 2nd... I mean how vodka should just be happy with what he had to watch.
 
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tigerguy_ said:
That's why there is the app to catch all the action. They don't pause the matches like they do for semifinals and finals for commercials, and they have to pay the bills.

There is a huge Hawk fan that reads this board, that works for ESPN on the wrestling broadcast and every time I see him I make sure to thank him for what ESPN has done for the sport. Thank you ESPN
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that app if you were a Direct Tv customer didn't work as much as it did.....I watched the whole Big Ten Tournament on BTN2go and the app performed flawlessly....for me ESPN3 was down as much as it worked....I think we all agree that we appreciate that ESPN covers it....but they should listen to the things we are pointing out in regards to improving their coverage....Saurday morning Gilmans match was the only match they showed in entirety....Kemerer and Sorensons first matches they finally went to in 3rd periods after comercial breaks and and interview with Missouris coach....hell at least show the wrestling and just put the interview audio on....once they were in the medal matches they could have had Tv breaks between weight classes and shown their comercials....then showed the entire matches....they have tv timeouts in football and basketball....if you have to cut down on Billy Baldwin interviewing people in the crowd to show the matches do it....pretty sure most of their audience were more interested in the wrestling than B.B.
 
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Too busy to read all the comments but I have NO problem with the coverage.

I watched at work. I watched at home. I watched in my car driving 80 mph going from office to home because I lost track of time.

It's a sport that unfortunately doesn't get a lot of love in this country. Feel grateful with what was provided.
 
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hawkster03 said:
Too busy to read all the comments but I have NO problem with the coverage.

I watched at work. I watched at home. I watched in my car driving 80 mph going from office to home because I lost track of time.

It's a sport that unfortunately doesn't get a lot of love in this country. Feel grateful with what was provided.
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If ESPN had not lost NCAA bb coverage it would not have happened.
 
natchrlman said:
that app if you were a Direct Tv customer didn't work as much as it did.....I watched the whole Big Ten Tournament on BTN2go and the app performed flawlessly....for me ESPN3 was down as much as it worked....I think we all agree that we appreciate that ESPN covers it....but they should listen to the things we are pointing out in regards to improving their coverage....Saurday morning Gilmans match was the only match they showed in entirety....Kemerer and Sorensons first matches they finally went to in 3rd periods after comercial breaks and and interview with Missouris coach....hell at least show the wrestling and just put the interview audio on....once they were in the medal matches they could have had Tv breaks between weight classes and shown their comercials....then showed the entire matches....they have tv timeouts in football and basketball....if you have to cut down on Billy Baldwin interviewing people in the crowd to show the matches do it....pretty sure most of their audience were more interested in the wrestling than B.B.
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To have commercial breaks between matches like they do for semifinals and finals would add more time to the session where it is by the skin of their teeth as it is to get the floor ready for Saturday night.
 
tigerguy_ said:
natchrlman said:
that app if you were a Direct Tv customer didn't work as much as it did.....I watched the whole Big Ten Tournament on BTN2go and the app performed flawlessly....for me ESPN3 was down as much as it worked....I think we all agree that we appreciate that ESPN covers it....but they should listen to the things we are pointing out in regards to improving their coverage....Saurday morning Gilmans match was the only match they showed in entirety....Kemerer and Sorensons first matches they finally went to in 3rd periods after comercial breaks and and interview with Missouris coach....hell at least show the wrestling and just put the interview audio on....once they were in the medal matches they could have had Tv breaks between weight classes and shown their comercials....then showed the entire matches....they have tv timeouts in football and basketball....if you have to cut down on Billy Baldwin interviewing people in the crowd to show the matches do it....pretty sure most of their audience were more interested in the wrestling than B.B.
Click to expand...
To have commercial breaks between matches like they do for semifinals and finals would add more time to the session where it is by the skin of their teeth as it is to get the floor ready for Saturday night.
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start earlier....they change start times for basketball all the time to accommodate TV coverage
 
I dont get some of you who are going so out of their way to make excuses for things that could be improved upon...like you don't think improvements should be made where possible....I also dont buy the arguments that Billy Baldwin mugging with people in the crowd improves ratings....its not like he is an American Icon that people can't get enough of....the vast majority of people who tuned in to watch wrestling want to see WRESTLING.....again we all really appreciate ESPN providing the coverage and ESPN3 was awesome when it was working....some of us who are Direct TV customers unfortunately had alot of problems with it....in fact comically I finally got a email response from ESPN customer service this morning telling me that it was my cable providers problem to call them....they in fact were the first call I made this weekend and they told me to call ESPN3 :) ......thats all neither here to there....bottom line....love the fact they are moving to cover the sport....but there are alot of ways they could do it better and you would think they would want that sort of input
 
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natchrlman said:
start earlier....they change start times for basketball all the time to accommodate TV coverage
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Run that one by the coaches and athletes and get back to me. Think what the athletes in the consolations just went through on a late Friday night and you want to take more time from them recovering to start earlier on a Saturday morning?
 
I get that but they all would have the same thing to deal with....one hour wouldn't be that big a deal....I really don't want to argue with you....you obviously think the coverage was perfect....good for you...I see ways to improve it....I mean it's like anything else take suggestions...constructive criticism and put it to good use....hell if the hour of recovery is that significant....needed for wieghing in....move the night session to 800pm....really just cutting down on the Billy Baldwin bit would help quite a bit....personally I wouldn't mind if the matches were shown a little tape delayed to accommodate comercials if need be....I just want to see the matches in their entirety....I get in earlier rounds they cant show everyone so you will miss some of your teams matches.....but that medal round they should be showing all the 3rd place matches
 
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natchrlman said:
I really don't want to argue with you....you obviously think the coverage was perfect....good for you...I see ways to improve it....I mean it's like anything else take suggestions...constructive criticism and put it to good use....
Click to expand...

Don't think it's perfect, and there were changes made to the coverage this year and will see if they stick, because as hard as it is to believe ESPN does look for ways to continually improve it's product.

Contact Jerry Daniels at ESPN, a former wrestling coach, who has been with ESPN for 30 years, and is the guy in charge with your suggestions.

Or Todd Jones, the producer of the event for ESPN, who had All Prime-Time NCAA Division I Wrestling Championships Sessions on ESPN for the First Time!! https://twitter.com/todddjones

Or John Vasallo who is the coordinator for all ESPNU events.

These are the people who make it happen. Or call up Jim Gibbons or Tim Johnson or even Shawn Kenney. Super nice guys who would love to talk about this.

Good luck, hope you make it happen because what you suggest would provide increased coverage, I just don't see how it's doable. But I'm just a guy on a message board.
 
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the big ten network has vastly improved their coverage since they started doing it...based on input from wrestling fans....ESPN can too
 
I thought the coverage was great. The one issue I had is that I had to run track in addition to ESPN3 to see which matches were going to be on which mat.

The TV coverage has gotten better every year, they are not going to show every match on TV, its just not going to happen. They do a good job of getting as many of the important championship bracket matches on TV as they could.
 
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hawkssox1 said:
Then suck it up like many of us do and ACTUALLY GO TO THE EVENT.
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I've been to the event 4 out of the last 6 years. I'm currently 2,000+ miles away. Not everyone has the ability to attend the event which is why the television and internet coverage is so important. Regardless, that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.
 
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harf said:
I thought the coverage was great. The one issue I had is that I had to run track in addition to ESPN3 to see which matches were going to be on which mat.

The TV coverage has gotten better every year, they are not going to show every match on TV, its just not going to happen. They do a good job of getting as many of the important championship bracket matches on TV as they could.
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Again, I don't think you're understanding what occurred during the placement match session on television. Almost everyone defending ESPN's coverage appears to be overlooking what actually happened on the television broadcast. I'm not exaggerating when I say literally 50-100% of every single 3rd place match was missed because they were showing either outside shots of the Arch, face shots of the commentators speaking about NCAA narratives, or interviews with coaches such as Cael.

They missed the entire Brooks 3rd place match. I don't think they showed a single first period for a 3rd and 4th place match. Many matches began in the third period.

Again, what other sport would it be acceptable for ESPN to actually show less than 50% of the actual sporting event, and to instead be showing outside shots of the arena or city? It's truly indefensible. Just because they cover the event and we should be thankful, doesn't mean that coverage can't improve or should improve. I've already given ESPN props for the internet coverage, and of course they do a great job on finals.
 
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natchrlman said:
I dont get some of you who are going so out of their way to make excuses for things that could be improved upon...like you don't think improvements should be made where possible....I also dont buy the arguments that Billy Baldwin mugging with people in the crowd improves ratings....its not like he is an American Icon that people can't get enough of....the vast majority of people who tuned in to watch wrestling want to see WRESTLING.....again we all really appreciate ESPN providing the coverage and ESPN3 was awesome when it was working....some of us who are Direct TV customers unfortunately had alot of problems with it....in fact comically I finally got a email response from ESPN customer service this morning telling me that it was my cable providers problem to call them....they in fact were the first call I made this weekend and they told me to call ESPN3 :) ......thats all neither here to there....bottom line....love the fact they are moving to cover the sport....but there are alot of ways they could do it better and you would think they would want that sort of input
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Exactly. It's insane that people are defending ESPN's flaws for the simple reason that we should be happy we get any coverage at all. No one here is saying we don't want ESPN to cover wrestling. What we're saying is that there are some very obvious and serious flaws with their current television coverage, and it should be addressed and improved. If we're not allowed to criticize the product that we're paying for, it's never going to improve. If ESPN was smart, they would take consumer feedback into consideration.

Their internet coverage is nearly perfect, if only they didn't have the issue with directv customers. Also, it would be nice if we get to the point, where you can just buy coverage access to the tournament directly through ESPNs website and not even have to go through the outdated and antiquated format of cable television subscriptions, but that's getting off topic.

But again, this entire thread is filled with people who are defending ESPNs coverage who were watching online and didn't actually see the television coverage of the Saturday morning placement session. If you didn't see that session on TV, you are in no place to defend ESPN, because the coverage was indefensibly terrible.
 
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We're the plain guy dating the hot chick who has bad breath. Significant upgrade to what we're used to but you still notice it.
 
Is_there_vodka_in_heaven said:
Exactly. It's insane that people are defending ESPN's flaws for the simple reason that we should be happy we get any coverage at all. No one here is saying we don't want ESPN to cover wrestling. What we're saying is that there are some very obvious and serious flaws with their current television coverage, and it should be addressed and improved. If we're not allowed to criticize the product that we're paying for, it's never going to improve. If ESPN was smart, they would take consumer feedback into consideration.

Their internet coverage is nearly perfect, if only they didn't have the issue with directv customers. Also, it would be nice if we get to the point, where you can just buy coverage access to the tournament directly through ESPNs website and not even have to go through the outdated and antiquated format of cable television subscriptions, but that's getting off topic.

But again, this entire thread is filled with people who are defending ESPNs coverage who were watching online and didn't actually see the television coverage of the Saturday morning placement session. If you didn't see that session on TV, you are in no place to defend ESPN, because the coverage was indefensibly terrible.
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Take it up with ESPN there is no one on this board that is going to make any changes.
 
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hawkssox1 said:
Take it up with ESPN there is no one on this board that is going to make any changes.
Click to expand...

I've already contacted them. Doesn't mean it can't be discussed on this forum as well. Internet forums and social media discussions and feedback are more likely to lead to company changes than one individual email to ESPN customer service.
 
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tigerguy_ said:
Don't think it's perfect, and there were changes made to the coverage this year and will see if they stick, because as hard as it is to believe ESPN does look for ways to continually improve it's product.

Contact Jerry Daniels at ESPN, a former wrestling coach, who has been with ESPN for 30 years, and is the guy in charge with your suggestions.

Or Todd Jones, the producer of the event for ESPN, who had All Prime-Time NCAA Division I Wrestling Championships Sessions on ESPN for the First Time!! https://twitter.com/todddjones

Or John Vasallo who is the coordinator for all ESPNU events.

These are the people who make it happen. Or call up Jim Gibbons or Tim Johnson or even Shawn Kenney. Super nice guys who would love to talk about this.

Good luck, hope you make it happen because what you suggest would provide increased coverage, I just don't see how it's doable. But I'm just a guy on a message board.
Click to expand...

Just saw this post. Missed it before. Thanks for the specific contacts!
 
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ESPNU's coverage of placing matches only (just over 2 hours):

125 (3rd) - full screen - (IOWA/OKST) full match
(Thomas Gilman interview)
(Billy Baldwin with Dan Gable and Gable Steveson)
133 (3rd/5th) - split screen - (OHST/MICH, OKST/NEB) late 1st period to finish
[commercial break]
141 (3rd/5th) - split screen - (NCST/WYO, RUT/MIZ) late 1st period
(Kevin Jack interview; cut away from last ~0:45 of RUT/MIZ)
[commercial break]
149 (3rd) - full screen - (OHST/IOWA) late 1st period to finish
(Cael Sanderson interview)
[commercial break]
157 (3rd) - full screen - (IOWA/OKST) early 2nd period to finish
157 (5th) - full screen - (NEB/COR) early 3rd period to finish
[commercial break]
(Billy Baldwin with PSU fans)
165 (3rd) - full screen - (MICH/WISC) late 1st period to finish
165 (3rd/5th) - split screen - (MIZ/OKST) added mid-2nd period to finish
[commercial break]
174 (3rd) - full screen - (ASU/MICH) late 1st period to finish
(Zeke Jones/Zahid Valencia interview)
[commercial break]
(Kenney/Gibbons stand-up)
184 (5th) - full screen - (OKST/OHST) late 2nd period to finish
184 (7th) - full screen - (IND/UNI) late 2nd period to finish
[commercial break]
197 (3rd) - replay/highlight of OHST/VT fall
197 (5th) - full screen - (OKST/NEB) early 2nd period to finish
197 (7th) - full screen - (RID/ODU) final minute of 3rd period
[commercial break]
HWT (3rd/5th) - split screen - (VT/ASU, DUKE/PSU) - late 1st period to finish
 
ISUChip said:
ESPNU's coverage of placing matches only (just over 2 hours):

125 (3rd) - full screen - (IOWA/OKST) full match
(Thomas Gilman interview)
(Billy Baldwin with Dan Gable and Gable Steveson)
133 (3rd/5th) - split screen - (OHST/MICH, OKST/NEB) late 1st period to finish
[commercial break]
141 (3rd/5th) - split screen - (NCST/WYO, RUT/MIZ) late 1st period
(Kevin Jack interview; cut away from last ~0:45 of RUT/MIZ)
[commercial break]
149 (3rd) - full screen - (OHST/IOWA) late 1st period to finish
(Cael Sanderson interview)
[commercial break]
157 (3rd) - full screen - (IOWA/OKST) early 2nd period to finish
157 (5th) - full screen - (NEB/COR) early 3rd period to finish
[commercial break]
(Billy Baldwin with PSU fans)
165 (3rd) - full screen - (MICH/WISC) late 1st period to finish
165 (3rd/5th) - split screen - (MIZ/OKST) added mid-2nd period to finish
[commercial break]
174 (3rd) - full screen - (ASU/MICH) late 1st period to finish
(Zeke Jones/Zahid Valencia interview)
[commercial break]
(Kenney/Gibbons stand-up)
184 (5th) - full screen - (OKST/OHST) late 2nd period to finish
184 (7th) - full screen - (IND/UNI) late 2nd period to finish
[commercial break]
197 (3rd) - replay/highlight of OHST/VT fall
197 (5th) - full screen - (OKST/NEB) early 2nd period to finish
197 (7th) - full screen - (RID/ODU) final minute of 3rd period
[commercial break]
HWT (3rd/5th) - split screen - (VT/ASU, DUKE/PSU) - late 1st period to finish
Click to expand...
Whoa whoa whoa, hold up a second. That doesn't fit the narrative, what the hell are you trying to pull?
 
Here is the problem: They need to hire an ACTUAL WRESTLING PLAY BY PLAY announcer, not a generic sports announcer. They had Tim Johnson on color, that's good. They had Robles on color, also good. They had all the others, they had former greats come in, they had the off the mat coverage.

But they did not have an actual, real, WRESTLING play by play guy.

I say, hire an actual wrestling play by play announcer, and keep everyone else on the color.
 
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tigerguy_ said:
Whoa whoa whoa, hold up a second. That doesn't fit the narrative, what the hell are you trying to pull?
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How doesn't it fit the narrative? They missed a massive percentage of all but maybe one 3rd place match, and missed the entirety of at least one 3rd place match. Also, it'd be nice to see the exact time they showed matches instead of just "late" or "early" 1st/2nd period. Not that I expect anyone to do all that work and record all of that.

It's not acceptable to miss massive percentages of the 3rd place matches. Again, what other sports would this be acceptable?
 
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Generally speaking, "early" means first 30-45 seconds. "Late" means last 30-45 seconds. Middle is middle. The majority of matches joined in the 1st period were still 0-0.

I went through the replay once. Don't like my summary? Fine. Give it a shot yourself. The broadcast version is still available on WatchESPN for you to parse every single second to your heart's content. That way you can use actual data to support (or disprove) your argument.

The 3rd-place match they missed is because Brooks got stuck during the commercial break. Holding weights for commercials (like during the finals) would have added at least an hour to the session.
 
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ISUChip said:
Generally speaking, "early" means first 30-45 seconds. "Late" means last 30-45 seconds. Middle is middle. The majority of matches joined in the 1st period were still 0-0.

I went through the replay once. Don't like my summary? Fine. Give it a shot yourself. The broadcast version is still available on WatchESPN for you to parse every single second to your heart's content. That way you can use actual data to support (or disprove) your argument.

The 3rd-place match they missed is because Brooks got stuck during the commercial break. Holding weights for commercials (like during the finals) would have added at least an hour to the session.
Click to expand...

I already said I had no problem with the commerical breaks. I can deal with missing parts of the matches due to commerical. My complaint was that they were showing shots of The Arch, the commentators faces, or coaches interviews instead of the actual matches which again is completely indefensible.
 
Is_there_vodka_in_heaven said:
No, just because they cover it, doesn't mean we should forgive or excuse terrible coverage. If they didn't cover it, someone else would such as flo.

I know flo has many deserving criticisms but at least they understand and are passionate about the sport of wrestling, and If they had the broadcasting technology that ESPN had, I'm sure they'd at least not miss half of the placement matches because they're showing interviews.
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ESPN has an exclusive contract with the NCAA to broadcast championship events. Flo will not be broadcasting the event anytime in the neat future.
 
nitlion6 said:
ESPN has an exclusive contract with the NCAA to broadcast championship events. Flo will not be broadcasting the event anytime in the neat future.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware. Was just pointing out that ESPN isn't passionate or knowledgeable about wrestling in the way that Flo would be.
 
tigerguy_ said:
what you said was, "that ESPN isn't passionate or knowledgeable about wrestling in the way that Flo would be."

Who is more passionate or knowledgeable about the sport of wrestling than Jim Gibbons or Tim Johnson?
Click to expand...

I'm obviously referring to the executives who are making the broadcasting decisions which was the complaint with their coverage. The purpose of this thread wasn't to criticize ESPN commentating. I don't think the commentators were the ones making the decision to not show the entire matches.
 
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