Flint
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
There were government regulations in place that were deliberately ignored by an EPA official(s). What a clusterf#*k!!!
The people responsible should fry but instead there will just be clamoring for more government and more regulations, cuz' that's how 'Muricans roll.
In February 2015, months before Edwards helped expose the contamination, an EPA water expert named Miguel Del Toral identified potential problems in Flint’s drinking water, confirmed his suspicions in April, and summarized the crisis in a June internal memo. The memo was kept under wraps by EPA Midwest chief Susan Hedman and the analyst was forbidden from making his finding public, according to Edwards, who secured an embarrassing batch of EPA email via Freedom of Information Act requests.
Hedman concedes that her department knew as early as April about the lack of corrosion control in Flint’s water supply, but said her hands were tied by interagency protocol.
“Protocol?” Edwards told me. “She buried the memo and gagged the analysis while kids were being poisoned.”
Even Walling, a Democrat like Hedman, said he doesn’t understand why somebody at Obama’s EPA didn’t give him a heads up about Del Toral’s finding – even off the record – before Walling publicly testified to the water’s safety, chugging a glass of the poisoned liquid on television.
He rolled his eyes at Hedman’s suggestion that she needed a legal opinion on whether the EPA could force action.
“They hid it,” the Democrat said. “They knew and used the law as a shield against the truth.”
http://www.nationaljournal.com/s/352795/how-government-this-columnist-failed-michigan-city
The people responsible should fry but instead there will just be clamoring for more government and more regulations, cuz' that's how 'Muricans roll.
In February 2015, months before Edwards helped expose the contamination, an EPA water expert named Miguel Del Toral identified potential problems in Flint’s drinking water, confirmed his suspicions in April, and summarized the crisis in a June internal memo. The memo was kept under wraps by EPA Midwest chief Susan Hedman and the analyst was forbidden from making his finding public, according to Edwards, who secured an embarrassing batch of EPA email via Freedom of Information Act requests.
Hedman concedes that her department knew as early as April about the lack of corrosion control in Flint’s water supply, but said her hands were tied by interagency protocol.
“Protocol?” Edwards told me. “She buried the memo and gagged the analysis while kids were being poisoned.”
Even Walling, a Democrat like Hedman, said he doesn’t understand why somebody at Obama’s EPA didn’t give him a heads up about Del Toral’s finding – even off the record – before Walling publicly testified to the water’s safety, chugging a glass of the poisoned liquid on television.
He rolled his eyes at Hedman’s suggestion that she needed a legal opinion on whether the EPA could force action.
“They hid it,” the Democrat said. “They knew and used the law as a shield against the truth.”
http://www.nationaljournal.com/s/352795/how-government-this-columnist-failed-michigan-city
i'm soooooo glad I live in the state of Iowa
It's nice to know that the only poison in our water is farm animal fecal runoff.
How long has Flint been ran by Democrats? Who put them in the financial crisis that they were taken over by a Gov administrator? Who in their right mind used lead pipe for water? The damn Romans were going insane over lead pipe use 2000 years ago...why would anyone be using lead?
Is the EPA a Republican shadow organization? Do you think there are 5% of EPA employees that have ever voted Republican?
The reality is we have shit loads of infrastructure in this country...much of it in declining population centers that is 100+ years old and shot. We've got huge poverty centers as well...and Gov's that are broke and cannot handle the burden of the load. Detroit area is a shit hole. Thousands and thousands of miles of unoccupied utilities must be maintained and inspected up there to keep the remaining people serviced. People that aren't even paying their bills in many cases.
I understand the left thinks there is unlimited money for everything and we can always tax 'the rich' (who really boil down to 'anyone who isn't me') but that's played out. We're broke and getting broker by the day.
Is the EPA a Republican shadow organization? Do you think there are 5% of EPA employees that have ever voted Republican?
The reality is we have shit loads of infrastructure in this country...much of it in declining population centers that is 100+ years old and shot. We've got huge poverty centers as well...and Gov's that are broke and cannot handle the burden of the load. Detroit area is a shit hole. Thousands and thousands of miles of unoccupied utilities must be maintained and inspected up there to keep the remaining people serviced. People that aren't even paying their bills in many cases.
I understand the left thinks there is unlimited money for everything and we can always tax 'the rich' (who really boil down to 'anyone who isn't me') but that's played out. We're broke and getting broker by the day.
If we're getting broker by the day, then why do the Republicans want to amp up military spending and slash taxes for the rich?
I know the rivers and streams are full of poison but our water treatment facilities are some of the best in the country!
_____________________________________________________
CEDAR RAPIDS — The city of Cedar Rapids’ drinking water has been deemed the best-tasting drinking water in Iowa.
A new water quality report published in February by the Environmental Working Group in Washington, D.C., found that the drinking water coming from Cedar Rapids Water Division’s two water treatment plants ranks best among 201 municipal treatment operations in the nation for the low level of chemicals called haloacetic acids in the treated water.
The city ranks second best of the 201 water systems (after Fresno, Calif.) for the low amount of a second group of chemicals, trihalomethanes, in its treated drinking water.
In the Environmental Working Group’s report, Cedar Rapids measured 1.4 parts per billion for total trihalomethane and 0.4 parts per billion for haloacetic acids. By way of comparison, the Des Moines Water Works numbers were 36 and 7 while the private water system in Davenport, which is operated by Iowa American Water Co., had numbers of 92 (the highest of the 201 systems) and 27. The EPA rule sets limits at 80 and 60 for the two groups of chemicals, according to the report.
Nope, this one is all on your team. Sorry. Ds knew how to get safe water to homes. Rs apparently are pre-Roman in their abilities. Etruscans or something maybe.
Ames is going to have something to say about this.
The problem is not the water, or where it came from. The problem is the physical system and (apparently) lack of chemicals they put into the newly supplied water. The lack of chemicals caused corrosion in the system, which persists even though they switched back to the old supply. Somebody operationally screwed up. And the Fed EPA sat on it.
With regard to pot, does anyone here know anyone who has or is spending time in prison for nothing more than pot possession? I constantly see legalization advocates complaining about our prisons being filled with non-violent pot smokers. I've heard of people going to prison for multiple offenses where possession is one of the crimes. Usually it's pot possession in conjunction with drunk driving or prostitution or illegal weapon possession or intent to distribute or maybe some sort of parole violation. I don't think I've ever heard of an otherwise law abiding citizen getting locked up just because he got caught with a dime bag in his pocket. Usually I think it's a fine and some counseling sessions and probation for about a year. And as long as you keep your nose clean you don't have to go to prison.
Partisan politics aside...what really happened in Flint? From the little I have read, this is not strictly a Rep or Dem issue, as players on both sides appear to be quite guilty of various misrepresentations and/or failure to act properly.
Where the devil do you think you are?
From what I know it is completely a R issue. The R state house and governor passed a bill that allowed them to take over towns and toss out the local reps. The Rs did take over Flint and tossed out all the Ds. The Rs then wanted to cut the price the city was paying to get water from lake Heron so they decided to use the flint river. The problem is the flint water was more acidic. They could have treated for this, but didn't. I'm unsure if that was a mistake or purposeful action. As a result of pumping acidic water through the pipes, the lead soldering joints started to leach lead into the water supply. Now that the lead is exposed, the pipes are ruined even if they go back to a less acidic water supply.
Callin' bullshit on this, bud. The soulless EPA bitch that covered this up was an Obama appointee (not that a Bush appointee would be any better). http://www.epa.gov/aboutepa/susan-hedman-administrator-epas-region-5-office-chicago
Poor, black kids from Flint are undesirable and expendable to the elitists that rule over them: whether it's a republican governor in their back yard or a 'constitutional' law professor lording over one and all from his perch in the Oval Office.
Again, I am still gathering info on this, but was there not a report available last spring that called attention to this potential issue that was then quashed by the EPA? The EPA of a Dem administration.
I like the way the usual suspects are trying to pin the blame on the EPA.
Like blaming Barney Frank for the Great Recession.
Like blaming Barney Frank for the Great Recession.
I like this meme. You can use it for practically anything Republicans do or say.
Not necessarily the entire EPA: in this case you have the name of the disgusting, criminally liable agent that should be tarred and feathered for what she's done.
In February 2015, months before Edwards helped expose the contamination, an EPA water expert named Miguel Del Toral identified potential problems in Flint’s drinking water, confirmed his suspicions in April, and summarized the crisis in a June internal memo. The memo was kept under wraps by EPA Midwest chief Susan Hedman and the analyst was forbidden from making his finding public, according to Edwards, who secured an embarrassing batch of EPA email via Freedom of Information Act requests.
This is a case of government officials committing crimes against innocent people, yet you think the answer has to be more government, more regulations and more money thrown their way.
How do you imagine less government and money would help? No email server to get the data from? It sounds like federalism reared its ugly head again. This is just another reason to do away with the states.
Who specifically are you referring to as "the usual suspects" in this case? FWIW, I am interested in knowing more about this, facts though, not opinions and suspicions. I have read two accounts now that also indicate that the EPA fell down here too, I am not personally blaming, or excusing, anyone.
Flint for years got water from Detroit. They decided to move to a system in 2016 that took water from Lake Huron. They told Detroit they would be leaving the Detroit system three years in advance. Detroit told them good bye after a one year notice, leaving them two years to find water. They pulled water from the Flint River thinking their water system could purify it. Their water management people screwed up and could not deliver purified water. The state environmental control division covered it up.
The Recap
- Flint’s elected leadership makes what is actually a solid, sound decision that will, in the long run, save the city millions of dollars and give it more control over its destiny – and, because it positions Flint as a wholesale supplier of water, possibly enhance revenues for them.
- Detroit Water Board decides to be spoiled, pissy assholes and leaves Flint with no good options for the two years before its pipeline is built.
- Flint’s elected leadership and GOP-appointed EFM make a careful, well-deliberated decision to draw water from the Flint River.
- Flint’s water staff – the people in Flint who are the experts on this sort of thing – apparently aren’t up to the task. And the people they count on to oversee and help them …
- The Michigan DEQ, is completely asleep at the switch. And once they discover their mistake, they lie about it and ask Flint to help them lie.
http://gregbranchwords.com/category/politics/
Thank you, thank you very much. From the little I have read so far, about 6 articles, this write-up seems to me to be the best of the bunch by a wide margin, because it isn't just a shallow political hit piece on the "other" party. It actually provides some non-partisan analysis and commentary that I suspect is far closer to the real truth than will ever be reported through traditional MSM channels.
And the other usual suspects are trying to pin the blame on Republicans. Lather, rinse, repeat.
I hope that not even in your wildest dreams you feel that more government and money could possibly help.
This is a monumental disaster that can be directly traced to government officials at the local, state and federal levels. The charges range from infantile stupidity and petulance (the Detroit Water Board, per SCHawk's post) to a criminal cover up at the EPA.
But yeah, let's go ahead and throw more money at the problem and get more idiots involved in trying to clean up the mess that their fellow idiots caused.
Idiocracy: we're living it. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
I couldn't agree more, however, with the need to eliminate the states. But not before getting rid of the federal government first; after all, a dying fish rots from the head.
In your no government world, how do you think this water ever gets treated? If the statehouse had left the local town alone, this doesn't happen. If the statehouse didn't have its own sovereign rights, the EPA would have been directly able to step in. So getting rid of some government would probably help, but getting the right government in there is also essential. As Apollo taught us, everything in moderation.I hope that not even in your wildest dreams you feel that more government and money could possibly help.
This is a monumental disaster that can be directly traced to government officials at the local, state and federal levels. The charges range from infantile stupidity and petulance (the Detroit Water Board, per SCHawk's post) to a criminal cover up at the EPA.
But yeah, let's go ahead and throw more money at the problem and get more idiots involved in trying to clean up the mess that their fellow idiots caused.
Idiocracy: we're living it. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
I couldn't agree more, however, with the need to eliminate the states. But not before getting rid of the federal government first; after all, a dying fish rots from the head.
This feels like it's being pushed as an alternative "explanation."
If the idea is that the EPA person is one more who needs to be brought up on charges, that could have merit. By all means let's pursue that line of inquiry - while (not instead of) putting the other malefactors in jail for endangering people and gross dereliction of their duties.
No way the EPA breakdown excuses the Governor, the city administrator, and the others.
I have now read a few more accounts of this problem and I have not read anything that would cause me to think of the EPA "contribution" as an alternative explanation, just another broken piece of a complex situation. One that does appear to reflect poorly on a variety of people, both R's and D's. FWIW, one of the articles I read that also referenced a breakdown at the EPA was from the Huffington Post, hardly a bastion of conservatism or Republican thoughts.
My takeaways at this point are:
1. This malfeasance may well need to be addressed by criminally charging the wrongdoers and people that covered this up...regardless of what party they are in.
2. Government, in and of itself, is not the be all, end all answer to all problems. Here it appears multiple levels of government failed and failed in a serious way. Government oversight and regulations, etc, guarantee the citizens very little when they too are corrupt and/or impervious to accountability.
really sad how quickly this gets politicized. I don't have to ready any article to know that this disaster was likely a combination of individuals, regulators, etc. and frankly could care less about the letter behind their name.
Marco Rubio chimes in...
Maybe Marco Rubio didn’t get the memo or hasn’t checked his email account in awhile, because earlier today when asked about the lead contamination crisis which is gripping Flint, Michigan–Michigan! A huge electoral vote prize in November–this is what Rubio had to say on the matter:
I’d love to give you a better answer on it. It’s just not an issue we’ve been quite frankly fully briefed or apprised of in terms of the role the governor has played and the state has played in Michigan on these sorts of issues.
You have to be briefed in order to know that high levels of lead in the water supply are a very bad thing, Senator? What turnip truck did you fall off?
But wait, Rubio wasn’t quite finished trying to talk around the issue without saying anything at all. He also added that he couldn’t give:
A deeply detailed answer on what the right approach should be, other than to tell you that in general I believe the federal government’s role in some of these things [is] largely limited unless it involves a federal jurisdictional issue.
That wasn’t exactly the question, but while we’re on it, let me take a bold guess here and posit that since the Governor of Michigan, Rick Snyder, is a conservative Republican, much like Rubio, the Florida Senator doesn’t want to criticize one of his own. Sharks generally do not attack each other.
Maybe Marco Rubio didn’t get the memo or hasn’t checked his email account in awhile, because earlier today when asked about the lead contamination crisis which is gripping Flint, Michigan–Michigan! A huge electoral vote prize in November–this is what Rubio had to say on the matter:
I’d love to give you a better answer on it. It’s just not an issue we’ve been quite frankly fully briefed or apprised of in terms of the role the governor has played and the state has played in Michigan on these sorts of issues.
You have to be briefed in order to know that high levels of lead in the water supply are a very bad thing, Senator? What turnip truck did you fall off?
But wait, Rubio wasn’t quite finished trying to talk around the issue without saying anything at all. He also added that he couldn’t give:
A deeply detailed answer on what the right approach should be, other than to tell you that in general I believe the federal government’s role in some of these things [is] largely limited unless it involves a federal jurisdictional issue.
That wasn’t exactly the question, but while we’re on it, let me take a bold guess here and posit that since the Governor of Michigan, Rick Snyder, is a conservative Republican, much like Rubio, the Florida Senator doesn’t want to criticize one of his own. Sharks generally do not attack each other.
By a little, yes, but the savings in other areas like healthcare will more than make up for it. On net, the middle class will have more under Bernie.
If Terry could get hold of some lead we'd have that in our water as well. He'd happily poison us all. Just give a lot of bottled water to his Farm Bureau buddies.
Agreed. He has no problem sweeping murder under the rug. Simple water poisoning would be even easier to justify.
