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Foley Friday Mailbag

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HB Heisman
Nov 20, 2014
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Before I get yelled at for bringing something over here, this is distinctly different than a poster on a forum. This is a paid writer slandering an Iowa wrestler on one of the biggest College Wrestling Outlets there is. He is a former wrestler and inevitably willful and opinionated. However, I think what he wrote borders on allowable. What is your take?


Foley's Friday Mailbag: January 22, 2016

T.R.Foley.jpg

T.R. Foley, InterMat Senior Writer
1/22/2016
foley@intermatwrestle.com, Twitter: @trfoley, Instagram: Trfoley37
At the end of a technical fall victory last week, Thomas Gilman caused a minor message board stir when he stood up at the end of the match. The problem wasn't some Cam Newton-inspired celebration, but that Gilman used the back of his opponent's still prostrated body and head to up himself from the Resilite.

That action, known colloquially as "face-mushing" is essentially grinding your opponent's face in the mat in a manner that is neither sporting, nor kind. Though unlikely to cause physical damage, face mushing is a disrespectful gesture meant to prove dominance opponent -- something you would think a 15-point victory already achieved.

This type of brutish and combative behavior isn't just dumb, reductive and immature; it also propagates the wrongheaded culture within wrestling that aggression and intimidation are weapons to be utilized. While fan boys of needless hostility might find gestures like face mushing as an endearing necessity of (faux) tough guy culture, in reality it's nothing more than a display of misplaced testosterone and underlying insecurity.

Winners don't denigrate and disrespect their opponents. Are they tough? Yes. Unrelenting in their forward pressure? Sure. Are they unapologetic in dominance? Of course.

The great ones were known as great in part because of a technical elegance, but also personal grace. John Smith, Gholamreza Takhti, Kaori Icho and Alexander Karelin -- none of these greats are prolific smilers, but they also weren't total jerks.

Trash talking, chest-bumping, and punch-throwing outbursts come about when wrestlers are taught to hide and protect their weaknesses and failures rather than explore them. The true champions don't see shortcomings as weakness, but as opportunities to improve. You don't get better because you emphasized the walloping of an opponent with a parting gesture more befitting a jailhouse than a wrestling mat.

Dollars to donuts, Thomas Gilman wins more matches if he tones down the bad boy rhetoric, and ceases to use intimidation as main wrestling skills. To fill the void of anger he (and others) could instead look at the technique missing from their repertoire and analyze it honestly and without bravado.

Wrestlers like Gilman (and there are many who act out in a similar fashion) could find enrichment from self-awareness and by default probably win more wrestling matches. But more importantly they could become better brothers, sons and teammates.
 
Hard to believe Foley ever wrestled. For as much wrestling as he's seen he shouldn't be surprised that someone gets their face rubbed in the mat after getting their tail kicked. It's part of the sport in my opinion.

Dollars to donuts that Gilman does the same thing twice this weekend Mr. Foley
 
used to read intermit regularly, quit long time ago. to many other places to go that I don't feel insulted. this stuff happens all the time. no reason to single Thomas out other than he is an easy target and foley knows he will get the you are so right reaction he so desperately needs. foley wishes he was ray brinzer and he can't fill the deal.
 
Foley is getting exactly what he wants right now. CLICKS. Whether it's positive or negative anything Iowa related gets clicks.

He needs to stay overseas where it's freestyle only and try to get rid of the singlet over there.
 
I would have let it go until I read his last two paragraphs. To me those are damn near fighting words. I am not even sure an editor should have let that be printed. He questions him as a brother, a son and a teammate and makes him out to be the angry little guy that can't be successful until he "finds the light"! The damn kid is undefeated and looking better than ever...............................
 
Not the most persuasive piece of writing I've ever read. I think I got the main point: Gilman should not have face-mushed. Seems like the world has bigger problems.
 
Foley's day is coming. Sooner or later his boy Tomasello has to wrestle Gilman again.

And the whole it costs Gilman matches is from Gilmans recent interview where Gilman said if he kept his cool he would have pulled out that Waters match at Nat Dauls. Gilmans already ahead of you on that one but thanks for the concern on Gilman possible losing. Im sure you were worried about him on that.

So he matched up his agenda with a recent interview he probably listend to on our site. Solid work detective! Way to make a deadline.
 
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Foley is nothing but a glorified SID for UWW who has retained his weekly column at Intermat for some reason. He hasn't produced a piece of quality journalism in years. He uses his 'mailbag' to chime in on matches he admittedly has not seen and repeatedly regurgitates mindless talking points or adds little to no insight. Partnered with Corey Haddad who will tweet anything hoping it sticks regarding the college choices of 17 year olds Intermat is really going downhill fast. Josh Lowe does a decent job with the high school section but his content can be found elsewhere for free. Oh well. There is more wrestling content than ever these days. Not even going to give Intermat a chance anymore.
 
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I kind of agree with him, IMO its pretty lame of Gilman to do that, but its not always super easy to go from being a total psychopath during the match to being mr. nice right when the buzzer rings, especially when you are 21 years old. These guys train to be killers and then they are supposed to be nice immediately? Every one is different, and its really not that big of deal, so I wouldn't really argue with anyone that disagree with me about this.
 
Iowa wins with intensity, toughness, intimidation, conditioning.... Part of the winning comes from the pushes and shoves after the whistle, out of bounds or at the conclusion of the match. It is something that many have done for years. The act itself isn't probably illegal and should not be penalized but isn't the most sporting of behaviors. If you are a hawkeye fan you love it because it shows domination. If you are not a fan you probably could do without it. The hawks aren't the only ones doing it either. Many wrestlers from many schools are guilty of this behavior BUT Iowa is the team who does it the most consistently.

I know wrestling is the toughest sport in the world. It is performed by the toughest people in the world. Many would say that this behavior is expected or even promoted. I do believe the the best collegiate wrestlers over the last 20 years did NOT partake in this type of behavior. I do not recall guys like Sanderson, Smith, McIlravy, Stieber, Dake, or Taylor doing those types of things.
 
Iowa wins with intensity, toughness, intimidation, conditioning.... Part of the winning comes from the pushes and shoves after the whistle, out of bounds or at the conclusion of the match. It is something that many have done for years. The act itself isn't probably illegal and should not be penalized but isn't the most sporting of behaviors. If you are a hawkeye fan you love it because it shows domination. If you are not a fan you probably could do without it. The hawks aren't the only ones doing it either. Many wrestlers from many schools are guilty of this behavior BUT Iowa is the team who does it the most consistently.

I know wrestling is the toughest sport in the world. It is performed by the toughest people in the world. Many would say that this behavior is expected or even promoted. I do believe the the best collegiate wrestlers over the last 20 years did NOT partake in this type of behavior. I do not recall guys like Sanderson, Smith, McIlravy, Stieber, Dake, or Taylor doing those types of things.

No but dake was a douche in an interview after a match..
 
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I would say the vast majority of Iowa guys don't and haven't in the past push the boundaries like Gilman does. The thing is a few of our more prominent guys have. Do I love it? I am kinda neutral on it. I honestly don't like it or dislike. As a competitor I never did it because it wasn't in my nature, but I knew some guys that it was absolutely in their fiber to do things like that and who am I to judge.

I think it is stupid to give the ref a chance to penalize you or the team but it doesn't happen too much so shove away I guess.

I do think there is plenty of time to show your dominance on the mat totally legally and I am not sure shoving a guy out of bounds or after the match help at all as far as winning the current or any future matches. Maybe I am wrong.

Oh and I am not even sure the action that is mentioned in this article even applies to anything I mentioned above.
 
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Iowa wins with intensity, toughness, intimidation, conditioning.... Part of the winning comes from the pushes and shoves after the whistle, out of bounds or at the conclusion of the match. It is something that many have done for years. The act itself isn't probably illegal and should not be penalized but isn't the most sporting of behaviors. If you are a hawkeye fan you love it because it shows domination. If you are not a fan you probably could do without it. The hawks aren't the only ones doing it either. Many wrestlers from many schools are guilty of this behavior BUT Iowa is the team who does it the most consistently.

I know wrestling is the toughest sport in the world. It is performed by the toughest people in the world. Many would say that this behavior is expected or even promoted. I do believe the the best collegiate wrestlers over the last 20 years did NOT partake in this type of behavior. I do not recall guys like Sanderson, Smith, McIlravy, Stieber, Dake, or Taylor doing those types of things.
Maybe Sanderson, Smith, McIlravy, Stieber, Dake and Taylor did do those type of things once or twice it just wasn't cried about on the intermat. Maybe because so many people like you hate Iowa it's always made a big deal therefore it seems like they do it most consistently.
 
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I'm not a fan of after the whistle shoves, etc. I've always rather handled my business during the match when points could actually be scored.

However, the amount of discussion this incident is getting is mind blowing! I have to wonder if most of the people commenting even watched the match. Gilman barely touched him! Now the shove in the Grapple at the Gridiron was much more out of line.

Foley seems way out of touch here, almost like someone commenting from a non-wrestlers perspective. "it also propagates the wrongheaded culture within wrestling that aggression and intimidation are weapons to be utilized" Huh? This comes from a wrestling fan? Aggression and intimidation are not something to be utilized? GTFOH
 
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Maybe Sanderson, Smith, McIlravy, Stieber, Dake and Taylor did do those type of things once or twice it just wasn't cried about on the intermat. Maybe because so many people like you hate Iowa it's always made a big deal therefore it seems like they do it most consistently.
Maybe they did it once or twice. That's the essence of the question/problem. It sure seems like some wrestlers do it every match. IMO, the occasional push is different than the almost every match push.

And I don't hate Iowa.
 
Iowa wins with intensity, toughness, intimidation, conditioning.... Part of the winning comes from the pushes and shoves after the whistle, out of bounds or at the conclusion of the match. It is something that many have done for years. The act itself isn't probably illegal and should not be penalized but isn't the most sporting of behaviors. If you are a hawkeye fan you love it because it shows domination. If you are not a fan you probably could do without it. The hawks aren't the only ones doing it either. Many wrestlers from many schools are guilty of this behavior BUT Iowa is the team who does it the most consistently.

I know wrestling is the toughest sport in the world. It is performed by the toughest people in the world. Many would say that this behavior is expected or even promoted. I do believe the the best collegiate wrestlers over the last 20 years did NOT partake in this type of behavior. I do not recall guys like Sanderson, Smith, McIlravy, Stieber, Dake, or Taylor doing those types of things.
Dake and Taylor most certainly have.
 
Foley's criticism may be a bit above the normal distribution, but there is nothing out of line there. Besides, he posted the "Grapple on the Gridiron" video and said Imar beats Nolf badly. Net net this board should give him a bonus point for the week.
 
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Foley's a gasbag. I had to change a few words but Buddha has already covered this topic in far fewer words:
You will not be punished for your face-mush, you will be punished by your face-mush. - Buddha

 
Foley's a gasbag. I had to change a few words but Buddha has already covered this topic in far fewer words:
You will not be punished for your face-mush, you will be punished by your face-mush. - Buddha
I'm lukewarm on the guy. One way to understand him is to know he went to UVA. There is a strain of pretentiousness at UVA perhaps stronger than anywhere save the Ivy League - and it often shows in his writing. I went to grad school there - love the school and could retire in Charlottesville, but the undergrads (who pretentiously call themselves 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th years instead of freshmen, sophomores, etc) can be a bit much.

Personally, I don't like the face smush, but whatever. Then again, cheap stuff like that (and most college guys seem to do it at times) causes retaliation (e.g. Ian Miller getting punched in the face). That's a major reason to call it out at times. Again, though, this TG episode was really minor.
 
I'm lukewarm on the guy. One way to understand him is to know he went to UVA. There is a strain of pretentiousness at UVA perhaps stronger than anywhere save the Ivy League - and it often shows in his writing. I went to grad school there - love the school and could retire in Charlottesville, but the undergrads (who pretentiously call themselves 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th years instead of freshmen, sophomores, etc) can be a bit much.

Personally, I don't like the face smush, but whatever. Then again, cheap stuff like that (and most college guys seem to do it at times) causes retaliation (e.g. Ian Miller getting punched in the face). That's a major reason to call it out at times. Again, though, this TG episode was really minor.

I agree. NFL and NHL games get very chippy. Who cares, that's just how it is. As long as no one gets, I find it mildly entertaining.
 
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