For the "fire Fran" crowd

[comet5]

Loser mentality.

It's not a losers mentality, its reality. Have high expectations but not unrealistic expectations. I believe we traveled down this road before when Dr. Tom was let go. Alford had good recruits but couldn't coach. We then hired Lickliter and we regressed to the bottom of the conference. Fran has brought in some talent that rivals Dr. Tom's teams. He's done a pretty good job here.

I feel the next step is for Fran to put aside his ego and change his philosophy to better match the talent we have. If he cant change by the end of his contract then I agree he should go.

 

[comet5]

You are the reason “thumbs down” should be an option on here.

How is his post wrong? You might want to explain yourself.

 

[ajdl]

It's not a losers mentality, its reality. Have high expectations but not unrealistic expectations. I believe we traveled down this road before when Dr. Tom was let go. Alford had good recruits but couldn't coach. We then hired Lickliter and we regressed to the bottom of the conference. Fran has brought in some talent that rivals Dr. Tom's teams. He's done a pretty good job here.

I feel the next step is for Fran to put aside his ego and change his philosophy to better match the talent we have. If he cant change by the end of his contract then I agree he should go.

To expect that Fran is going to change after 9 years is insane

 

[comet5]

Agree we need a better coach (not necessarily elite) to get better results.

I do not buy the recruiting excuses. True, Iowa is not a hotbed of recruits.....but George Raveling had no problem getting quality players. Iowa State has no problem.

This isnt the 1980's either. I think we need to take social, economic, and geographical factors that help students choose their schools. The game has changed a ton since then. I'm not sure that would be a safe comparison.

 

[83Hawk]

This isnt the 1980's either. I think we need to take social, economic, and geographical factors that help students choose their schools. The game has changed a ton since then. I'm not sure that would be a safe comparison.

Then how does ISU get better recruits?

 

[comet5]

To expect that Fran is going to change after 9 years is insane

That's certainly up to him. I would hope he is reflecting hard on his temperament as well as the roster he has constructed. Good coaches are constantly reflecting and adjusting. That's what makes guys like Beilein so successful. They know when adjustments need to be made. Fran has certainly struggled in that department.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

To expect that Fran is going to change after 9 years is insane

Kirk changed and he’s a lot less flexible than Fran

 

[comet5]

Then how does ISU get better recruits?

Go back to Hoiberg. Why was he so successful at bringing good players in?

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Then how does ISU get better recruits?

Why is everyone so envious of ISU? They have a bunch of undisciplined chuckers.

 

[83Hawk]

Go back to Hoiberg. Why was he so successful at bringing good players in?

Why can’t Iowa have a Hoiberg? Or another Raveling? Unless you are implying they cheated.

 

[Bearhawk0505]

ISU had the same conference record, worse overall record, and got destroyed by us.

None of that means they do not have more talent. It is all about building a team for postseason runs. I hope Iowa can mount a run, I just don’t see Franball being conducive to postseason runs.

 

[Bearhawk0505]

Why is everyone so envious of ISU? They have a bunch of undisciplined chuckers.

And they are in a conference title game. Fran has never even made a semifinal in the big ten.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Why can’t Iowa have a Hoiberg? Or another Raveling? Unless you are implying they cheated.

Of course Raveling cheated. And I don’t know if Hoiberg cheated (there are rumors out there) but he clearly cut corners when building and maintaining his roster.

 

[comet5]

Why can’t Iowa have a Hoiberg? Or another Raveling? Unless you are implying they cheated.

No. Hoiberg came in with a huge reputation as being an NBA guy. Not only was he a player, but in the front office if I recall. That sort of reputation has its merits. If you can tell a high level recruit that the program can help you prepare for the NBA without having to sit behind those elite recruits at Duke or Kentucky...that's extremely attractive. Considering the society we live in today, kids dont want to necessarily stay in school when they know they can make money quicker by jumping pro.

Hoiberg's presence alone made the school attractive. Prohm has benefited nicely from this as hes still getting talent...but hes also realizing that controlling all those egos is not easy.

 

[waterboy4582]

Why is everyone so envious of ISU? They have a bunch of undisciplined chuckers.

The sweet 16s and the conference tourney titles in the last 5 years would be a good start.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

And they are in a conference title game. Fran has never even made a semifinal in the big ten.

And conference tournaments don’t matter unless you need it to make the NCAAs.

So they’ve won two games at the end of the year. Counts the same as games at the beginning of the year.

 

[comet5]

Why is everyone so envious of ISU? They have a bunch of undisciplined chuckers.

An NBA trait for sure. Lots of spread the floor and go one on one. Kick out to the open shooters when available. I believe Golden State has a similar offensive strategy.

 

[83Hawk]

No. Hoiberg came in with a huge reputation as being an NBA guy. Not only was he a player, but in the front office if I recall. That sort of reputation has its merits. If you can tell a high level recruit that the program can help you prepare for the NBA without having to sit behind those elite recruits at Duke or Kentucky...that's extremely attractive. Considering the society we live in today, kids dont want to necessarily stay in school when they know they can make money quicker by jumping pro.

Hoiberg's presence alone made the school attractive. Prohm has benefited nicely from this as hes still getting talent...but hes also realizing that controlling all those egos is not easy.

Again....why can’t Iowa do that? It wasn’t just Hoiberg....Floyd did it too.

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

How is his post wrong? You might want to explain yourself.

Like I would waste time explaining the obvious to someone who waited 8 years after joining the site to start posting.

 

[danloney]

Realistically, if you fire Fran who do you actually believe Iowa will get to replace him? Honestly, what does Iowa have as a program that will attract a coach that will create the type of basketball program that we all think we should have?

Get the right coach that can recruit, coach solid defense and hire legitimate assistant coaches and good things can happen. Like you, I detest this loser mentality that we are only Iowa. I came from the Miller, Olsen years and still believe one or two players can return that.

In my lifetime I have seen one Final Four team (‘80), and 2 teams that were legitimate championship caliber (‘70, ‘87). There is no reason or excuse that Iowa can never have teams like that again. None whatsoever. That is why I get so infuriated with those that are just fine with the status quo and “it could be worse” crowd.

We have very little history in the last 20 years in the NCAA Tournament and the accomplishments we do have came from Steve Alford in the BIG tournament about 20 years ago. if you brought a coach in would he think "this place is committed to winning BIG championships" or is content with average results, 20-10 seasons and at least one game in the NCAA Tournament.

 

[comet5]

Like I would waste time explaining the obvious to someone who waited 8 years after joining the site to start posting.

Indulge me then. I hate when people make comments but can't back up their talk. I would love to know the obvious

 

[comet5]

Again....why can’t Iowa do that? It wasn’t just Hoiberg....Floyd did it too.

I don't know what to tell you. Best I can offer is advocating for better administrators who recognize coaching talent and then hope things fall in place.

 

[83Hawk]

I don't know what to tell you. Best I can offer is advocating for better administrators who recognize coaching talent and then hope things fall in place.

I’m not really arguing with you. I contend Iowa CAN get better recruits and stand by that statement.

You are correct....until Iowa gets an administration committed to athletic success, nothing will change.

 

[comet5]

I’m not really arguing with you. I contend Iowa CAN get better recruits and stand by that statement.

You are correct....until Iowa gets an administration committed to athletic success, nothing will change.

It's all good . I enjoy the conversation.

 

[kcgolfer]

Realistically, if you fire Fran who do you actually believe Iowa will get to replace him? Honestly, what does Iowa have as a program that will attract a coach that will create the type of basketball program that we all think we should have?

We have very little history in the last 20 years in the NCAA Tournament and the accomplishments we do have came from Steve Alford in the BIG tournament about 20 years ago. if you brought a coach in would he think "this place is committed to winning BIG championships" or is content with average results, 20-10 seasons and at least one game in the NCAA Tournament.

We pay well. This has always been an intellectually stupid argument. Coaches will come for money and we will pay it.

 

[wbrhawkeye]

I would be content if FRAN was forced to replace 1-2 assistants.

WE NEED A TOP DEFENSIVE COACH AND STRONG RECRUITER who has good relationships with too AAU and Juco programs.

 

[MeetTheFerentz]

Two reasons you can't get rid of Fran this offseason:

1) Iowa is a "middle of the pack" type of program, and they would get fried in the media if they let go of a coach who just made the NCAA Tourney, especially going from 4-14 to 10-10 in conference games, with a veteran-loaded team returning. Getting an upgrade for a replacement would be tough sending that kind of message.

2) BARTA. There is absolutely no way on God's green Earth that I want GB in charge of the next basketball or football hire. The very best thing that could happen for Iowa is for a new, young A.D. who cares about winning to take over. He could then immediately start talking to KF about an exit strategy (over 2-4 years?), and put Fran (and several other coaches) on notice about what he needs to do to keep his job.

 

[Bearhawk0505]

I would be content if FRAN was forced to replace 1-2 assistants.

WE NEED A TOP DEFENSIVE COACH AND STRONG RECRUITER who has good relationships with too AAU and Juco programs.

That would be a good move. Even Coach B from Michigan decided to add a defensive coach. I am not sure Fran’s ego would allow him to defer to anyone in any aspect.

 

[Tim Dodge Rules]

The "who will replace Fran" group are kind of annoying.

 

[Tim Dodge Rules]

It's not a losers mentality, its reality.

I feel the next step is for Fran to put aside his ego and change his philosophy to better match the talent we have. If he cant change by the end of his contract then I agree he should go.

Absolutely hilarious you talking about reality one second, then talking about Fran putting aside his ego and changing philosophy the next.

That is about the greatest thing I've read in here in a while.

 

[comet5]

Absolutely hilarious you talking about reality one second, then talking about Fran putting aside his ego and changing philosophy the next.

That is about the greatest thing I've read in here in a while.

Yeah, it does blow one's mind doesn't

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

The "who will replace Fran" group are kind of annoying.

 

[comet5]

I'm still waiting for your response my friend.

I loved that movie as a kid

 

[unoHawkeye]

Nobody fears change or would be crying if he were forced out... just recognize that it isn’t happening this year

 

[Gallboy]

I would probably argue that iowa has more high-level out-of-state talent on this team than they have had in quite some time. Otherwise our talent level is going to be primarily driven by what the state of Iowa produces.

The bolded

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

Nobody fears change or would be crying if he were forced out... just recognize that it isn’t happening this year

Correct...thanks to our turd of an AD.

 

[archmage2002]

Agree we need a better coach (not necessarily elite) to get better results.

I do not buy the recruiting excuses. True, Iowa is not a hotbed of recruits.....but George Raveling had no problem getting quality players. Iowa State has no problem.

Umm, look at the era Raveling was in. AAU was an afterthought back then, finding and identifying talent was the key to success because chances are you wouldn't have to compete to hard to recruit the player due to not having as much competition. Back in the Raveling Era the information was king and recruiting that underrated gem was lot easier because chances other teams coaches wouldn't have seen the vcr tape or have seen that player in person so you would only have to fight off one or two schools at most.

Compare it to all the info now, everybody knows about the offers quickly, almost every player is identified early and recruited quite heavily. Most players play so often and are recruited so much that you end up fighting to recruit the players against 8 or more teams. Underrated players can still be found but it's so easy for a opposing team to look at the videos, decide if they should offer or watch him in person. That's why you always hear at the end of a recruiting year about players blowing up and getting way more offers because teams realize they are an underrated recruit.

The sad thing is Fran has done a good job of identifying talent early and offering but he just hasn't been able to close the deal for various reasons. It's frustrating that he has come in second a lot for guard talent, if he managed to close even on one of them Iowa would have become Elite 8 type team.(Imagine having Gessel, Paige, Jok, White, Woodbury as starters.)

 

[unoHawkeye]

Correct...thanks to our turd of an AD.

Correct, we’ve been stuck with Fran due to an inability to manage a contract. But he wouldn’t be going after making the tournament this year anyways

 

[83Hawk]

Umm, look at the era Raveling was in. AAU was an afterthought back then, finding and identifying talent was the key to success because chances are you wouldn't have to compete to hard to recruit the player due to not having as much competition. Back in the Raveling Era the information was king and recruiting that underrated gem was lot easier because chances other teams coaches wouldn't have seen the vcr tape or have seen that player in person so you would only have to fight off one or two schools at most.

Compare it to all the info now, everybody knows about the offers quickly, almost every player is identified early and recruited quite heavily. Most players play so often and are recruited so much that you end up fighting to recruit the players against 8 or more teams. Underrated players can still be found but it's so easy for a opposing team to look at the videos, decide if they should offer or watch him in person. That's why you always hear at the end of a recruiting year about players blowing up and getting way more offers because teams realize they are an underrated recruit.

The sad thing is Fran has done a good job of identifying talent early and offering but he just hasn't been able to close the deal for various reasons. It's frustrating that he has come in second a lot for guard talent, if he managed to close even on one of them Iowa would have become Elite 8 type team.(Imagine having Gessel, Paige, Jok, White, Woodbury as starters.)

What era it is really doesn’t matter. There is no excuse for not getting as good...or better talent than ISU!

It is frustrating that Fran can’t close the deal on the better players. But that is a Fran problem, not a “great players won’t come to Iowa” problem.

 

[Hawksfor3]

This.