Fran and Lisa Have a Type

[Tenacious E]

Yes. For years I have maintained that we are fighting human nature trying to recruit out of state black players with a predominantly white roster.
Kids like to go where they feel comfortable that they will have some commonality with teammates who will probably become their best friends for life.
Asking an inner-city Chicago recruit to choose Iowa where he might be among 3 other guys that are urban kids and 9-11 suburban white kids is problematic.
17 year old kids are all about having a crew that they share similar life experiences with.

If Fran is going to change his style to Bo Ryan- ball fine , get gritty physical players who shoot well and walk the ball up...but if he wants up tempo ball...recruit quick athletes who can run and jump.
Dr.Tom was guilty of the same syndrome after Ravelings recruits were gone.

Now do ISU.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Yes. For years I have maintained that we are fighting human nature trying to recruit out of state black players with a predominantly white roster.
Kids like to go where they feel comfortable that they will have some commonality with teammates who will probably become their best friends for life.
Asking an inner-city Chicago recruit to choose Iowa where he might be among 3 other guys that are urban kids and 9-11 suburban white kids is problematic.
17 year old kids are all about having a crew that they share similar life experiences with.

If Fran is going to change his style to Bo Ryan- ball fine , get gritty physical players who shoot well and walk the ball up...but if he wants up tempo ball...recruit quick athletes who can run and jump.
Dr.Tom was guilty of the same syndrome after Ravelings recruits were gone.

I agree.

As @curtisj157 would say, you can’t win anything of consequence when your roster looks like you recruited from the sales team at J Crew or the Pottery Barn.

 

[Franisdaman]

The quintessential white athlete. Johnny and Jenny Wonderbread.

Works pretty well in women's basketball which has 0 parity nationwide but not so much in men's basketball, where 5 brothers from the field house, playing pick up basketball would wipe this team.

But then again, the State of Iowa, has a type which caters to its demographics.

You know and I know, if Caitlin Clark were black, the reception to her success within the State of Iowa would be tepid at best and some racial shit would be tossed by one of you.

 

[Rifler]

OP is a racist piece of shit...

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

How in the hell did we ever beat the Alabama State Hornets by 31 goddamned points? 15 blacks/no whites and a 7'1" center...

Alabama State Hornets 2023-24 Men's College Basketball Roster - ESPN

Explore the 2023-24 Alabama State Hornets NCAAM roster on ESPN. Includes full details on point guards, shooting guards, power forwards, small forwards and centers.

www.espn.com

If you think 5 black guys from the fieldhouse would touch this Iowa team, it's time to reevaluate your bb knowledge...

 

[hahkize]

And on yours for saying he was "run out of the state". Totally false. By his own admission he left because there were not many eligible women of color for him in the dating circle.

When George Raveling Thursday announced he would depart the...

'Often you have to go where your calling is and where you're wanted,' Raveling said. 'The University of Southern California wants me to be their basketball coach.'

'I just think my comfort zone is more compatible with an urban area than an area that is much smaller.'

Raveling said despite a consensus to the contrary, two recent newspaper articles had little to do with his departure.

An article which appeared in the Seattle Post-Intelligencier and was quoted throughout Iowa indicated many fans disliked the former Washington State coach because he was black and recruited too many black players. Another article in the Muscatine (Iowa) went a few steps beyond and even criticized Raveling for having a predominantly black team.

Still, Raveling said race had little to do with it.

'That story didn't have as much influence as some people think,' Raveling said. 'In my heart I believe 95 percent of the people in Iowa believe in racial equality.'

Iowa women's basketball coach C. Vivian Stringer said she was 'embarassed' by Raveling's resignation and also dropped hints that a degree of racism finally pushed Raveling too far.

'Why would one leave this great athletic state when someone has a team emerging on a national level?' Stringer said. 'I think I (understand), and that's probably why I'm upset.'

Larry Carter, president of the Des Moines Branch of the NAACP, said a 'combination of racial overtone and intense pressure' drove Raveling from the state. Carter said Raveling would not have left such a flourishing program had he not felt uncomfortable in Iowa.

'He had no reason to leave,' Carter said. 'It certainly wasn't for money. The package he's getting at USC is less than he received here.'


IMO - Raveling felt pressure b/c he would often get out-coached at halftime and many were critical of the results.

There's always a small faction that brings race into it. Was then, still is today, and it happens everywhere, even on other campuses. He was an average x & O guy but a great recruiter. The Big10 was a tough league in those days. Michigan (Frieder), IU (Knight), MSU (Jud 'n Izzo), PU (Keady), Illannoy(Henson and $), O$U, Minn (Dutcher)

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

And on yours for saying he was "run out of the state". Totally false. By his own admission he left because there were not many eligible women of color for him in the dating circle.

Yes I remember him saying or intimating that.

Another interesting thing he said several years later was about missing on JR Reid the top recruit nationally. And Raveling just missed on him. He said had he landed Reid he would have stayed at Iowa. That wasn't widely circulated but it's true.

Sorry, GOHOXSTER, there's a lot of benign reasons for his departure.

 

[Rifler]

I'm old enough to remember that Raveling was not a good in game coach,.. Iowa or USC.

 

[ozzie8]

When George Raveling Thursday announced he would depart the...

'Often you have to go where your calling is and where you're wanted,' Raveling said. 'The University of Southern California wants me to be their basketball coach.'

'I just think my comfort zone is more compatible with an urban area than an area that is much smaller.'

Raveling said despite a consensus to the contrary, two recent newspaper articles had little to do with his departure.

An article which appeared in the Seattle Post-Intelligencier and was quoted throughout Iowa indicated many fans disliked the former Washington State coach because he was black and recruited too many black players. Another article in the Muscatine (Iowa) went a few steps beyond and even criticized Raveling for having a predominantly black team.

Still, Raveling said race had little to do with it.

'That story didn't have as much influence as some people think,' Raveling said. 'In my heart I believe 95 percent of the people in Iowa believe in racial equality.'

Iowa women's basketball coach C. Vivian Stringer said she was 'embarassed' by Raveling's resignation and also dropped hints that a degree of racism finally pushed Raveling too far.

'Why would one leave this great athletic state when someone has a team emerging on a national level?' Stringer said. 'I think I (understand), and that's probably why I'm upset.'

Larry Carter, president of the Des Moines Branch of the NAACP, said a 'combination of racial overtone and intense pressure' drove Raveling from the state. Carter said Raveling would not have left such a flourishing program had he not felt uncomfortable in Iowa.

'He had no reason to leave,' Carter said. 'It certainly wasn't for money. The package he's getting at USC is less than he received here.'


IMO - Raveling felt pressure b/c he would often get out-coached at halftime and many were critical of the results.

There's always a small faction that brings race into it. Was then, still is today, and it happens everywhere, even on other campuses. He was an average x & O guy but a great recruiter. The Big10 was a tough league in those days. Michigan (Frieder), IU (Knight), MSU (Jud 'n Izzo), PU (Keady), Illannoy(Henson and $), O$U, Minn (Dutcher)

Wonder what Raveling did with those sweatsuits. Those things were top notch

 

[ozzie8]

 

[dbookie2004]

Another person has now been added to my ignore list,the list is getting long and I’m ok with that.

 

[intrepodor]

But a terrible game coach.

Can't have everything.

 

[hawkguy77]

Sure you would. In 54, it was segregated. In 1970, integration was just taking place and white players were overwhelmingly in the majority, in 1980, you had black players like Ronnie.

On the 1970 team three of the top six players, Johnny Johnson, Downtown Freddie Brown and sixth man Ben McGilmer, were black. Carl Cain was black and started on the 1950s teams. Three of the top six on the 1980 team were black. Connie Hawkins never got to play for Iowa, but he would have been a great Hawkeye.

 

[IamHawkeye]

I'm not lecturing you. Admit you're wrong and move on. A simple search on Wikipedia would show you that in paragraph one. I've met Lute in real life but didn't bother to ask him about his family lineage. Good lord.

I did admit I was wrong. You did the unnecessary lecturing about two separate countries. I also admit I should have just mentioned that another coach complained about a fishbowl and hoped you would get my point . .

 

[markfromj]

Great post, mark!

Thx.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

The quintessential white athlete. Johnny and Jenny Wonderbread.

Works pretty well in women's basketball which has 0 parity nationwide but not so much in men's basketball, where 5 brothers from the field house, playing pick up basketball would wipe this team.

But then again, the State of Iowa, has a type which caters to its demographics.

You know and I know, if Caitlin Clark were black, the reception to her success within the State of Iowa would be tepid at best and some racial shit would be tossed by one of you.

Such nonsense would only come from something or someone like you.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

That's my point. My entire thesis is that demographic becomes the ethos of athletic teams at Iowa.

Except for the melting pot that is Ames Iowa right? Smh

 

[DBQ Hawk]

I lived in IC during the Raveling and Stringer years, and Raveling left because he could coach USC, as well as live in LA and find a Black woman to date. It's really as simple as that

Stringer left because of her husband dying, which resulted in her suing for malpractice, souring her on IC as a whole. I don't recall any racial talk from her until after her husband died and she left, nor any hint of unhappiness from her until he died.

ISU is an effective counterargument that we can't recruit Black BB players to Iowa. We are the premier athletic program in the state, in a much better college town, yet Otz has them in the Top Ten after just a couple of seasons

The problem isn't race, or Iowa City, or whether we have too many unathletic White players. IT'S THE COACH. My patience with Fran has run out. He needs to go. He's had 15 years to fix the defense, and he hasn't done it. He's had 15 years to tailor the program to his recruits (by emphasizing defense over offense), and he hasn't done it. We hardly win any NCAA tourney games, and haven't made a Sweet Sixteen. You can even make the argument Drake has a better BB program at this point

The problem is Fran McCaffrey

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

You can make valid points about perception being reality to recruits,

but that does not mean 5 random black dudes playing pickup at the field house could beat the men’s team,

They could during the Lickliter years. I was there.......................

the state of Iowa has a type, or that Clark would have had a tepid reception if she was black. If I have have to explain why those are moronic statements, I can’t help you or gohox.

Well I would hope you wouldn't need to help me since I never said or supported any of that part of his post. But then again, how did you put it........oh yes, if I have to explain how moronic it is to assume I did, well then I can't help you, and such and such.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

. You can even make the argument Drake has a better BB program at this point

It'd actually be a stronger argument than people care to admit.......

 

[Tenacious E]

They could during the Lickliter years. I was there.......................


Well I would hope you wouldn't need to help me since I never said or supported any of that part of his post. But then again, how did you put it........oh yes, if I have to explain how moronic it is to assume I did, well then I can't help you, and such and such.

Oops, I think I thought I was replying to someone else. My bad.

 

[kceasthawk]

Maybe the university administration and/or the athletic department play a bigger role in who comes to play for Iowa than we expect. I find it mind-boggling that not one but three major programs at Iowa have problems getting black athletes to commit and retaining them. With the racial bias suit in football and not a great deal of compelling action coming after that, it's more understandable that the football program would have an issue, but I certainly don't think that fully explains why the same thing happens in both men's and women's basketball. I can't think of any other P5 or high-major school that has as many problems getting black players to commit and stick around in the major sports. Seriously, frigging BYU has it figured out. Meanwhile Iowa men's basketball resembles St. Mary's College seemingly every season.

Anyone remember the guy McCaffery brought on in one of his first years, who was from the mid-Atlantic and had some previous baggage? He was on campus for what felt like all of 5 minutes before committing some murky transgression and getting the boot. I find it striking that ever since then McCaffery has never shown the same willingness to go after a good player who can help the team but may have dealt with off-court issues.

lolol... Do tell how we have a hard time getting black players on the football team. Ridiculous and untrue. And the racial bias deal was hokum, and anybody with a brain could see that. Other then the guys in the lawsuit, (pretty much all who had left because they weren't playing) how many black players have left since then because of the supposed incident? Like none? Must be a real problem......

 

[curtisj157]

I agree.

As @curtisj157 would say, you can’t win anything of consequence when your roster looks like you recruited from the sales team at J Crew or the Pottery Barn.

Well, you can win swim meets and Friends trivia nights.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Btw, one thing I do miss are all the solid forwards/centers we've had over the years with guys like Reggie Evans, Duez Henderson, Melsahn Basabe, Tyler Cook, Doug Thomas, Acie Earl.

Let's get some more of those types of players......

 

[shrinkhawk]

Btw, one thing I do miss are all the solid forwards/centers we've had over the years with guys like Reggie Evans, Duez Henderson, Melsahn Basabe, Tyler Cook, Doug Thomas, Acie Earl.

Let's get some more of those types of players......

The "White Chocolate" philosophy..it just hasn't worked out quite right.
Everyone loved Marble, BJ, even rougher type of players like Horton and "Life as A G" were beloved by fans..and that was almost 30 years ago.

 

[jerbob36]

Yes, Brad Banks was definitely hated by the racist Iowans. Nobody liked him, we all just pretended to like him.
We also disliked the Murray twins, BJ Armstrong, Andre Woolridge, Bob Sanders, Shonn Greene. Man, if those guys would've been white, we would've really supported them.

I can't believe I responded to this crap.