Fran ceiling

[IllQChawk]

Bryce Cartwright was a point guard.

Yes and was a Jr. when he came to Iowa....Ulis is only a freshmen that has played limited minutes because of Connor, Bohannan, and C.J.
Ulis will still be a freshmen next year as well, but he will be getting way more minutes next year and he'll be a lot more reliable....back on it.

 

[24 so far]

For the record, I don't want to get rid of him. People are overreacting. No, Iowa is not among the top teams in the country. Gonzaga and Michigan clearly better. But there's not much separation between Iowa and Ill and OSU. If Nunge is out the rest of the year, though, Sweet Sixteen may be the best they can do. Just no one else on the bench to back up Garza.

Sweet 16 is the ceiling IMO. We'll eventually run into a Team with 3 good defenders and we're done.

Fun to watch, we have some good players but collectively they aren't contenders for any type of Championship.

I thought this year MIGHT be different early on and what we had coming back, but eventually exposed just like all of Fran's teams are.

 

[Moral]

This team is not ready for prime time. Perhaps the tourney will be different. The one thing that remains consistant is Coach Fran's lack of in-game cocaching. Sure, he will get up and yell at the refs because it's always their fault but sheesh not even the assistants STAND UP and teach.

Non conference plays into Iowa's hands. Last year before conference I think Iowa was leading in FTs attempted and made

 

[denmar81]

Not only that, some don’t think the second best 3 point shooter in the history of the big ten, arguably the toughest league in the country at least for the last two years, and the all-Time assist leader at Iowa can’t play at this level. They want the guy who had the best assist-to-turnover ratio in the country last year, and is one of the top in that category this year, benched because he has the same last name as his coach. And btw, they want JT to take his place. Yeah, let’s fire the coach who has one of the the most efficient offenses in the country, and has a team that doesn’t turn over the ball much, 4th in the country? Being a number 2 or 3 seed in the tourney... oh, **** that. That’s not good enough. Let’s fire the guy because he’s a terrible recruiter but has last year’s Big Ten player of the year and this year’s potential national player of the year ... He’s awful. Let’s bring Lick back.

I just want a coach that can coach defense and rebounding. If that’s a new assistant so be it.

 

[SWIowahawks]

Not only that, some don’t think the second best 3 point shooter in the history of the big ten, arguably the toughest league in the country at least for the last two years, and the all-Time assist leader at Iowa can’t play at this level. They want the guy who had the best assist-to-turnover ratio in the country last year, and is one of the top in that category this year, benched because he has the same last name as his coach. And btw, they want JT to take his place. Yeah, let’s fire the coach who has one of the the most efficient offenses in the country, and has a team that doesn’t turn over the ball much, 4th in the country? Being a number 2 or 3 seed in the tourney... oh, **** that. That’s not good enough. Let’s fire the guy because he’s a terrible recruiter but has last year’s Big Ten player of the year and this year’s potential national player of the year ... He’s awful. Let’s bring Lick back.

Thanks for pointing out why Iowa is under performing. All that and the best Fran might do is finish 6th in the conference.

 

[PersianHawk]

Wow! Getting to Sweet 16 would be a disappointment, a terrible ceiling.

Let that sink in.

 

[dekhawk]

Such a stupid ****ing post, find a new team.

Really, entitled to my opinion. No defense, talent disparity is clear versus top teams this year, again. Some of us remember lute Olson , George raveling and the early Tom Davis years. If you want to settle, find a new team.

 

[Robster Raws]

Fran’s personality has embarrassed enough of us fans, on the court and in press conferences (and in stadium tunnels) far more than his resume says he should be allowed. That part has bothered me for some time now.

 

[Chishawk1425]

Really, entitled to my opinion. No defense, talent disparity is clear versus top teams this year, again. Some of us remember lute Olson , George raveling and the early Tom Davis years. If you want to settle, find a new team.

Seriously, find a new team.

 

[dekhawk]

Seriously, find a new team.

You first. Someone has to call it like it is. Sorry you don’t like it.

 

[Aleksei]

Really, entitled to my opinion. No defense, talent disparity is clear versus top teams this year, again. Some of us remember lute Olson , George raveling and the early Tom Davis years. If you want to settle, find a new team.

George Raveling? Sorry, but I doubt you remember! Iowa ended up 7th, 5th and 6th in the Big 10 in his 3 yrs at Iowa. Big ten record 6-12; 10-8; 10-8.
And in Lute’s 9 years, we only won 56% of our games in the league.

 

[Rambler Hawk]

For the record, I don't want to get rid of him. People are overreacting. No, Iowa is not among the top teams in the country. Gonzaga and Michigan clearly better. But there's not much separation between Iowa and Ill and OSU. If Nunge is out the rest of the year, though, Sweet Sixteen may be the best they can do. Just no one else on the bench to back up Garza.

for the time being, but I foresee that gap widening in the next few years....IMHO

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

The "settle" is kind of accepting reality. Twenty two years ago that unrealistic mentality lead to the Davis runoff; you know, when Iowa was last in the Sweet 16. Iowa basketball creditability hit its historic low in only ten years after Dr. Davis. We know the team is top ten, maybe 15. Most ranked wins, etc.... We haven't been "exposed". Two of the losses are to number 1 seeds away from home. The two Indiana and the OSU loss were the 2-3 loses Iowa has every year because of targeted officiating, and unsurprisingly to two of the historical beneficiaries of that officiating disparity. Tonight was rough but Michigan is a solid 1 seed playing on its home court with friendly officiating-not the game fixing like the OSU and Indiana games but solid homecourt officiating. Lost team cohesion when the Big Boss Man (Connor) left the game.

Probably won't face a team like Michigan in the second round if we're seeded higher than 7. Iowa probably won't shoot as poorly as tonight. Probably won't face a team in the first two rounds with any hope of defending Luka. Cannot lose our shit over one game.

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

Saying that the sweet 16 is the ceiling is far from saying we want to get rid of him although a few might be. I doubt they finish top 10 but if they do it will be because of garza. Im excited about the future but it will be interesting what the post Garza era looks like. Outside of diamond in the rough recruiting he's just not that great....but Barta making another hire scares me more. The nepotism and stubbornness drive me nuts but as an Iowa football fan I've learned to live with it. Coaches come to Iowa for job security, not championships

You’re excited for what the post Garza era will look like?

I’m terrified

 

[Aleksei]

I guess Ohio St should fire its coach too since they lost to Mich St tonight, a team we beat by 30?

 

[ThBou345]

Nunge injury could be devastating for the remainder of this year and for the next several years. If he cannot continue, Iowa’s lack of size behind Garza will hurt the Hawks going forward. Iowa needs more quality big guys. Keegan Murray will be a very good forward but is not a Center.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

This year is the ceiling. Wherever it goes it will be the high point.

 

[chuck285]

Close loss?

 

[chuck285]

Amen, lol.

Iowa might be primed to make a sweet 16 run though. B1G is effing stacked. Fran picked a terrible year to have a POTY.

No matter how they finish in the B1G tournament or in the NCAA this board will do their trolling...That's how this works....You won't hear much if they win at OS but if they lose than here comes the basemen trolls back on this site.

 

[Ladell-hawk]

Bryce Cartwright was a point guard.

So was Mike Gesell, a very good point guard.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

He can probably take Iowa to sweet 16, but his coachingand horrible lineup decisions will never get Iowa to the elite 8 or final 4.

I’ve been a huge fan of his, and he made iowa basketball relevant again, but he’s not a big time coach or recruiter.

Another flaw is being too damn loyal to old ass assistants. Needed to bring in fresh blood and someone who can coach defense and boxing out.

Well stated. It's a joke that Fran is on the verge of having his second iteration of the Gesell-Woodbury team with a veteran team peaking at a not so high level and being unlikely to get pas the second round. Any team who can play man on Iowa's guards can completely shut this offense down. The game plan last night was probably the worst crap show job of coaching I have seen since Lickliter. Just a joke to get blown out and the game over with 8 minutes with Iowa looking a lot like Lickliter's teams compared to Michigan.

 

[Eternal Return]

Sweet 16 is the ceiling IMO. We'll eventually run into a Team with 3 good defenders and we're done.

Fun to watch, we have some good players but collectively they aren't contenders for any type of Championship.

I thought this year MIGHT be different early on and what we had coming back, but eventually exposed just like all of Fran's teams are.

Yeah, I think the way they started, especially with Garza playing insane in November and December, 30 ppg night in and night out, not even anyone close to being as good as he was on the floor. He just doesn't have that spark at this point. The B10 with the "let them play" officiating has just worn Garza down. That and not having the extra piece besides Joe W.

I saw an article about the 100 best players coming into this year. Garza was #1, Joe W was like 60, and Bohannon (!!!) was like 100. Obviously, everyone from fans to media was projecting Bohannon to be able to play at the level he had his first three years. He hasn't been able to do that; the hip surgeries have obviously affected him. Maybe not permanently, but he's only about a year removed from the last surgery.

So those were supposed to be the Big Three that would be equivalent to Gonzaga's Big Three. Garza, yes; Joe W, in the conversation; JBo is not who we thought he was--or apparently who he thought he was given how much he talks up how great Iowa is.

The most annoying thing about all of this is that the players talked the talk, but they don't have a single win against the top 20 AP teams. UW, on.paper, is their best win and they are ranked #23. No other team that Iowa has beaten is in the top 25. I HATE that people keep saying Iowa beat 6 top 25 teams. Who gives a crap if they were ranked at the time; only UW us ranked now ... barely.

If the players had stated that they were going to do their best to win the B10 championship, maintaining just a smidge of humility until they beat a true contender, then people may have had more realistic expectations and been willing to cut them some slack as their limitations were exposed. The worst thing, though, is that they set their minds on NCAA champs or bust. So when they hit challenges from other teams they looked almost shocked that they aren't blowing them out at times and they wind up getting outplayed and out hustled.

Very frustrating. I hope Nunge is not seriously hurt, but that didn't look good.

 

[Eternal Return]

for the time being, but I foresee that gap widening in the next few years....IMHO

Oh, yeah, that could be. I was only talking about this season. And, honestly, if Nunge is out for the rest of the year they may be a notch lower than I think they are now.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

Last night sucked, but let’s be real. Right or wrong, like every other team in the nation, they will be judged on what they do in the big dance. Sure the regular season is fun to talk about during, but the true judgement will be made in March. Anything can happen and with Garza and Iowa’s shooters, I like them in a short prep

 

[HawkLogic]

Most teams would not get another Garza. He also had a Tyler Cook. I'm sure we will look back on JBo like a legend. There was also Devyn Marble, White, Baer, etc. Now we have some Murrays primed up.



I could go for a Dean Oliver or 2.

If you are at a top school, you don't need to have a POY guy like Garza because you got 4 other guys that are all 4-5 star recruits. With the Best player in nation, Fran needed to surround Garza with enough talent to win a B1G title and get to final 4...he wasn't able to do that. He's never going to consistently get high level recruits and without another POY exceptional talent, Iowa's ceiling under fran is 0.500 B1G ball

Fran did well bringing in Keegan but he also needed to develop Ulis, perkins, JoeT. ....the Michigan coach had a mediocre team coming back and he went out and got Dickinson and two impact transfers...that is the difference. Gonzaga got Suggs and impact transfer. Those two coaches took their teams to an elite level. Fran's additions only got us to 4th or 5th place in B1G.

Fran is not able to compete in transfer market, won't take any risky players, and we are Iowa and we only get Iowa kids and occasional good out of state player. This year was the ceiling for Fran. I don't see the big upside in CMAC and PMAC that some of Fran's deepest fans see.

 

[Cydkar]

I’m an apathetic ISU fan. I’d rather watch Iowa than my own team right now. It’s crazy to me that Iowa fans want to get rid of a coach who has put together a top 10 team.

I understand them.

 

[anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r]

Fran’s personality has embarrassed enough of us fans, on the court and in press conferences (and in stadium tunnels) far more than his resume says he should be allowed. That part has bothered me for some time now.

That’s the thing....if you’re winning Big Ten titles frankly I don’t care if you’re chasing officials off the court...I’ll defend you. But if you’re not competing for Big Ten titles at the end of the year.....your act gets old real quick.

and personally I think as one poster mentioned Dean Oliver would be a great replacement to lead the Hawks...

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

He can probably take Iowa to sweet 16, but his coachingand horrible lineup decisions will never get Iowa to the elite 8 or final 4.

I’ve been a huge fan of his, and he made iowa basketball relevant again, but he’s not a big time coach or recruiter.

Another flaw is being too damn loyal to old ass assistants. Needed to bring in fresh blood and someone who can coach defense and boxing out.

Oh, so basically Tom Davis after George’s recruits left the building.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Iowa basketball conference records in history and B1G championships by coach

Fran .497 No championships
Lick .278 None
Alford .477 No regular season championships
Davis .543 None
George .481 None
Lute .562 Tied for 1
Schulz .357 None
Miller .643 2 championships
Sharm .452 None
Bucky .634 2 championships

That's 70 years of Iowa basketball. The coaches averaged .492 in conference play. A total of 4 championships and none since 1979.

Maybe Fran has hit his ceiling. Or, maybe Iowa basketball has.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

Iowa basketball conference records in history and B1G championships by coach

Fran .497 No championships
Lick .278 None
Alford .477 No regular season championships
Davis .543 None
George .481 None
Lute .562 Tied for 1
Schulz .357 None
Miller .643 2 championships
Sharm .452 None
Bucky .634 2 championships

That's 70 years of Iowa basketball. The coaches averaged .492 in conference play. A total of 4 championships and none since 1979.

Maybe Fran has hit his ceiling. Or, maybe Iowa basketball has.

Well said.

 

[dekhawk]

George Raveling? Sorry, but I doubt you remember! Iowa ended up 7th, 5th and 6th in the Big 10 in his 3 yrs at Iowa. Big ten record 6-12; 10-8; 10-8.
And in Lute’s 9 years, we only won 56% of our games in the league.

So you wouldn’t prefer Lute? Look at his last 4 years. Big ten champs, ncaa runs, Iowa was at the point where you felt a big title or final four run could happen each year. While raveling may not have had as much success on the court, he had to follow Lute. And as you will recall, George provided tom Davis’s first year teams talent, which went 30-5 and just missed the final 4. George assembled the most talent Iowa has ever put on the court, seven players on that first Davis team had some NBA participation.

So yes I remember those years well and we should aspire to return to that versus settling. 11 years.

 

[hexumhawk]

Fran is what he is at this point and if Iowa fans are happy with it after 10 years, so be it.

I for one think we could do better/could do worse. I don't have confidence in Barta making a solid hire so I say ride Fran until Barta is gone.

 

[BeepBeepInMyJeep]

11 years without a true PG. Fran simply can’t recruit one. He got lucky with Garza.

Average to above average is the ceiling. Not bad, just get used to no championships of any kind for Iowa Basketball under Fran.

There weren't any before he got here either.

I do believe our best option is get a decent seed in an NCAA tournament every year and then at some point hope to get lucky.

Of course, some dope is going to bring up 1987 or Lute Olsen, or Bucky O'Conner as if nothing at all has changed in basketball in 35+ years and offer this as "proof" that Iowa can be an elite program in the 21st century.

 

[hexumhawk]

There weren't any before he got here either.

I do believe our best option is get a decent seed in an NCAA tournament every year and then at some point hope to get lucky.

Of course, some dope is going to bring up 1987 or Lute Olsen, or Bucky O'Conner as if nothing at all has changed in basketball in 35+ years and offer this as "proof" that Iowa can be an elite program in the 21st century.

I would say Dean Oliver is our last true PG that played significant starter minutes.

 

[Jizzer]

He can probably take Iowa to sweet 16, but his coachingand horrible lineup decisions will never get Iowa to the elite 8 or final 4.

I’ve been a huge fan of his, and he made iowa basketball relevant again, but he’s not a big time coach or recruiter.

Another flaw is being too damn loyal to old ass assistants. Needed to bring in fresh blood and someone who can coach defense and boxing out.

I can't believe he let Connor and Nunge get injured.
You are not a fan of his, you just said last week you were done with him. Stop starting stupid threads!
He just brought in new blood.

 

[dekhawk]

There weren't any before he got here either.

I do believe our best option is get a decent seed in an NCAA tournament every year and then at some point hope to get lucky.

Of course, some dope is going to bring up 1987 or Lute Olsen, or Bucky O'Conner as if nothing at all has changed in basketball in 35+ years and offer this as "proof" that Iowa can be an elite program in the 21st century.

So Iowa has been very good before but can’t possibly be ever again?

 

[BeepBeepInMyJeep]

So you wouldn’t prefer Lute? Look at his last 4 years. Big ten champs, ncaa runs, Iowa was at the point where you felt a big title or final four run could happen each year. While raveling may not have had as much success on the court, he had to follow Lute. And as you will recall, George provided tom Davis’s first year teams talent, which went 30-5 and just missed the final 4. George assembled the most talent Iowa has ever put on the court, seven players on that first Davis team had some NBA participation.

So yes I remember those years well and we should aspire to return to that versus settling. 11 years.

I really tire of this. Lute Olson isn't even alive anymore (RIP). We're talking about an era with no shot clock or 3 point shot, and a sport that is night/day different on every level than what it was back then. That was an NBA that had damn near 0 non-US players. Today, the 10 starters of the NBA all-star game has 4 of them who are foreign born. It's exhausting to hear people talk about how the 1987 playbook is somehow proof that the blueprint is there for success in 2021.

 

[Jizzer]

Not like Fran is on the hot seat. It is just sinking into some, that this is as good as it will ever get with Fran.
He's not going to get another player like garza.

LOL, we are a top 10 team? What do you mean this is as good as it will ever get? Isn't this pretty good?

 

[BeepBeepInMyJeep]

So Iowa has been very good before but can’t possibly be ever again?

Iowa is very good now, a step below elite. I wouldn't say it's entirely inconceivable to have teams that come together at just the right time for a Final Four run. We could get hot shooting the ball in March, we could just get damn lucky. Getting to the tournament 6 of 8 years (if we counted last year) is pretty good. Perhaps there's a future Top 5 NBA draft pick somewhere in this state who'd love to spend a year in Iowa City. But if you eliminate the first year of Tom Davis and the first year of Fran (since they took over programs in complete opposite directions), their Big Ten records are basically identical, with Fran doing it in what's certainly been a stronger league.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Fran is what he is at this point and if Iowa fans are happy with it after 10 years, so be it.

I for one think we could do better/could do worse. I don't have confidence in Barta making a solid hire so I say ride Fran until Barta is gone.

This X 1000!
Barta's incompetence as an administrator has been on public display on multiple occasions. No way should he be involved in even minor hires, let alone one of the two truly important coaching jobs.