This.
They were freshman, for f**** sake. Bohannon did his part last night, others did not. Get the 2 and 3 to the hole and the concerns about Bohannon vanish.
Fran needs to get Bohannon some help
- Thread starter Ihawkhoops
- Start date
This.
They were freshman, for f**** sake. Bohannon did his part last night, others did not. Get the 2 and 3 to the hole and the concerns about Bohannon vanish.
Iowa's Offensive Efficiency for every year since McCaffery arrived. This is from Kenpom. Starting with first year to last:
153 PG: Cartwright, Jr.
40 Cartwright, Sr.
56 Gesell, Fr, Clemmons, Fr, Marble, Jr.
5 Gesell, Soph, Marble, Sr.
30 Gesell, Jr, Clemmons, Jr.
25 Gesell, Sr, Clemmons, Jr.
50 Bohannon, Fr, Williams, Soph.
I would suggest, that if there is a pattern here it is one that shows that experience matters.
153 PG: Cartwright, Jr.
40 Cartwright, Sr.
56 Gesell, Fr, Clemmons, Fr, Marble, Jr.
5 Gesell, Soph, Marble, Sr.
30 Gesell, Jr, Clemmons, Jr.
25 Gesell, Sr, Clemmons, Jr.
50 Bohannon, Fr, Williams, Soph.
I would suggest, that if there is a pattern here it is one that shows that experience matters.
Bohannon is going to find out next year that without Jok taking all the Defensive attention he is not going to score as easy as he did this year .
Why, because the multiple other freshman won't improve?
If this was high school maybe....match-ups will dictate. Iowa runs so many M2M sets that it they will expose the weakness the best they can. If you do not think that other coaches are not aware of JB by 10-15 games in, then you just don't know.
If you think Jbo was any teams main concern then you have no clue what you are talking about, Jok is #1 priority for any team to stop doesn't matter if teams are aware of jbo or not they don't game plan to stop him
Bohanan will be the focus of every team next year. I am hopeful that Moss, Cook, and Baer play bigger roles in the offense and therefore Iowa becomes more balanced. If Iowa is balanced its tough to match-up because of the size and also the ability to step out and hit the 3 and post up as well.
I just hope Williams and Moss become more aggressive next year. I don't care who runs the point, we need guys attacking the lane at times next year.
Good thing Pete was never out of the line up when Jordan was in.
He is recruiting them he just isn't getting them. Tyler Ulis and Charlie Moore come to mind
Moss has already shown he can attack the lane and the rim, but needs more of this. Williams has been able to do this a little but when he gets to about 12 feet from the basket, he looks like he has never played before and just stops. And his jump shot is so bad that if he threw the ball toward the rim, it would almost count as a turnover.
Bohannon is going to be fine but whomever takes over for Jok needs to be a better defender and a better ball handler.
Also, Moss makes poor decisions when he drives. He doesn't see the floor very well.
Sorry - I though the sarcasm was clear. He just hasn't got the guy the majority wants.
Wow ... JBo needs help?...ok then..
I would love to get another super talented PG..'all Big 10 ability'...who is (now write this down) willing to play 15 minutes a game while JBo's career unfolds. Any of you who think there is a kid out there like that...who is willing to play less than half minutes..well you are in dream land.
Talented PG's are looking for minutes not to sit or play less than half the game.
On this date..JBo is our PG and is going to be for the next 3 years...his help will come from C Williams & C McCaffery ...both of them or one of them. One thing is for sure Connor McCaffery is looking to help the team...minutes will be based on his performance...but it could very well be that JBo & CM see minutes together...we shall see.
I would love to get another super talented PG..'all Big 10 ability'...who is (now write this down) willing to play 15 minutes a game while JBo's career unfolds. Any of you who think there is a kid out there like that...who is willing to play less than half minutes..well you are in dream land.
Talented PG's are looking for minutes not to sit or play less than half the game.
On this date..JBo is our PG and is going to be for the next 3 years...his help will come from C Williams & C McCaffery ...both of them or one of them. One thing is for sure Connor McCaffery is looking to help the team...minutes will be based on his performance...but it could very well be that JBo & CM see minutes together...we shall see.
It's the chicken & egg debate here. I am sure Fran did not anticipate Williams being absolutely brutal and losing the starting spot in game 5. I also think he expected more out of Moss and Uhl in the slashing / driving department.
The flip side is that he had an entire year plus an off season to evaluate Williams. What did he see? Why did he not use the Dailey spot to get a PG in here or play Dailey as an alternate to Williams? You can Macgyver some stuff in basketball, but not the PG spot. Bohannon, complimented by a more athletic drive & kick guard, makes Iowa much more dynamic.
Our demise in the NIT will come against a team that will spread us out like Indiana did and use their guards to drive the ball into the paint. Indiana was on fire and I am not fixating on last night's game, but the lack of a drive & kick PG haunted us all season.
This is factually not true. How do you explain that every team we play has 2-3 guards who would be upgrades here? You spin this the same way every response. Who is calling for super talented? I would take one of Omaha's 3 guards that we could not stop. We have depth in the form of bodies, but not talent. How many other B1G teams fall off the cliff when they go to their # 2 PG? Answer: 1.
Williams has very little up side due to how challenged he is offensively. Connor is a taller version of Bohannon--likely a good 3 point shooter, but not going to be able to defend quicker guards and light on athleticism.
You name 1 team that has 1 PG and only plays 1 PG and I will walk this back. It's called upgrading through recruiting. Guys get better or they get recruited over and they leave or get less PT. Plenty of guys out there who would love to play in the Big Ten and compete for PT. Only so many guys can start, so lots of backup's looking for an opportunity. In Fran's system, you are likely to get as much or more PT off the bench if you play well.
The flip side is that he had an entire year plus an off season to evaluate Williams. What did he see? Why did he not use the Dailey spot to get a PG in here or play Dailey as an alternate to Williams? You can Macgyver some stuff in basketball, but not the PG spot. Bohannon, complimented by a more athletic drive & kick guard, makes Iowa much more dynamic.
Our demise in the NIT will come against a team that will spread us out like Indiana did and use their guards to drive the ball into the paint. Indiana was on fire and I am not fixating on last night's game, but the lack of a drive & kick PG haunted us all season.
This is factually not true. How do you explain that every team we play has 2-3 guards who would be upgrades here? You spin this the same way every response. Who is calling for super talented? I would take one of Omaha's 3 guards that we could not stop. We have depth in the form of bodies, but not talent. How many other B1G teams fall off the cliff when they go to their # 2 PG? Answer: 1.
Williams has very little up side due to how challenged he is offensively. Connor is a taller version of Bohannon--likely a good 3 point shooter, but not going to be able to defend quicker guards and light on athleticism.
You name 1 team that has 1 PG and only plays 1 PG and I will walk this back. It's called upgrading through recruiting. Guys get better or they get recruited over and they leave or get less PT. Plenty of guys out there who would love to play in the Big Ten and compete for PT. Only so many guys can start, so lots of backup's looking for an opportunity. In Fran's system, you are likely to get as much or more PT off the bench if you play well.
Bohannon has done an amazing job, but he can't play the whole game all season and is not immune to injuries. He may be better suited, in some situations, to play the 2. As we saw last night, Fran has about 2 minutes of patience for Williams. If you think that is a recipe for success, then I question your basketball IQ.
Williams had back issues last night.
Speaking of basketball IQ, how did this work out for ya?
"The defense may improve from an assignment perspective i.e. not leaving guys under the basket waving their arms, but not from an athletic perspective. We are too slow and undersized all over the floor to do much more than offer passive resistance vs. defend.
Even with better defense, we still only have one guy who merits any respect on the perimeter and a very talented, but young and undersized post player who will get double teamed because of no other offensive threats. Outside of Jok and Cook, the rest of the team is comprised of the 7th or 8th guy off the bench at a MVC school."
Dammmmmmmm...pretty good Sixth Man of the Year and First Team All Big Ten for Baer and Bohannon considering they are 7th or 8th guys off the bench at an MVC school. And that Pemsl guy rated no respect as an offensive player either.
Wow, you got a track record going there IQ!!!!
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Re-read please....no one in college junks up defenses to stop one guy. If you think so, then good luck to you
you are factually full of it...not every team we play has 2-3 guards who would be upgrades....E X A G G E R A T E is your calling card...as DanL last post shows your own words do you in...
I think Jordan is an excellent point guard. I believe he remains at point guard throughout his career. He is a good ball-handler, an excellent passer and does a great job of reading defenses and controlling the tempo. All of these abilities should improve. But, he may not ever be able to get to the rim.
But, they do need someone that CAN get to the rim consistently - either the 2 or the 3. Moss? Baer? IDK where it's going to come from, but it is needed.
Also needed is someone that can STOP penetration! Far to many poorly contested (or uncontested) layups and dunks.
I think the Hawks are set at PG. But, I agree with the OP title - he's going to need some help.
But, they do need someone that CAN get to the rim consistently - either the 2 or the 3. Moss? Baer? IDK where it's going to come from, but it is needed.
Also needed is someone that can STOP penetration! Far to many poorly contested (or uncontested) layups and dunks.
I think the Hawks are set at PG. But, I agree with the OP title - he's going to need some help.
I wouldn't say he scored easily. Its not like his man was guarding Jok.
Its not like Jok was setting him up for baskets or that he got allot of easy looks.
A good portion of his shots were contested. Allot were from way behind the line.
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He wont be defended differently next year.
Theres not much you can do differently.
Nobodys going to just doubling a pg.
Moss and Williams need to step up next year and be the ones to attack off the dribble and collapse the D.
I think they will improve significantly.
Koenig is no more a true point guard then Jbo. I have to say, I always love posts that start by someone saying"We all see it, why can't the coach"! LOL!
Next year's offense isn't going to run through one player. I expect to see a balanced attack. When Iowa was successful this year, three or more players scored in double figures. I expect Iowa to share the ball and look for the open man. A few players (Uhl, Moss, Williams) must step up their aggressiveness (Williams and Moss are beginning to) and not pass up open shots. I think CMac and Garza will be nice additions, particularly Garza. A big guy that can hit the three opens up the paint for our forwards and guards to drive to the basket.
Fran better have a LONG talk with UHL, Williams, and Wagner about what they can do to improve. These three guys have been in the program 2+ years and you really haven't seen much improvement from them. Usually most players under Fran improve and get better, but for whatever reason these 3 have struggled. UHL I don't know what happened to him, he got passed over and was basically a non-factor this year. Williams showed glimpses of good play, but then he would revert back to his old ways. Wagner has to develop a jump shot. His 6-7 frame can't make it in the Big Ten. He has to come up with something, otherwise he will get passed over.
I think Uhl's injured thumb stole his confidence shooting. I've seen him with it taped up and I'm wondering if he tore a tendon and is waiting til the offseason to have surgery. Williams just needs to slow down and let his game come to him. He also needs to work on his shooting. Wagner has done a lot but he's really undersized. All three need to spend the offseason working on their shooting and defensive movement. I'm not ready to give up on them just yet.
I'm not sure what the talk is going to accomplish, and I'm not trying to degrade anyone who wears the Hawk uniform. Uhl was fortunate last year, when he hit some unguarded threes, but he does not have a solid repeatable jump shot. This makes him very inconsistent, so he struggles with his confidence. There were so many games this year when he wouldn't pull the trigger. I'm hoping the trip to Germany will spark him for next, year, but who knows. Wagner is a heck of an athlete with very limited basketball skills. He handles the ball ok, but he has no touch on his shot, so basically he's a cleanup guy on the block. He'd be a solid role player if he was 6'9", but unfortunately he's not going to be that anymore than I'd bet he's going to develop a nice jumper by next year. Williams is a guard version of Wagner. Basically Fran has done what he had too. He recruited over these players with Garza, Nunge, and CMac. His statement that he doesn't plan to redshirt any of next years players, is to me a clear message to these current players where he expects their place in the pecking order to be next year and beyond.
I checked the list of player development priorities the Iowa coaching staff has formalized for the off-season.
"Ahmad Wagner has to develop a jump shot" is #30 on the list -- right behind #29 "Brady Ellingson needs to develop a left-handed hook" and just ahead of #31 "Maishe Dailey needs to lose 15 pounds"
I have a hard time picturing JBo at the 2 unless the point that replaces him is 6'4" tall or more and a good defender. So, I doubt we need a point replacement so much as a point reserve/co-host.
Moss is rough around the edges, so let's hope he uses the summer to work on his deficiencies. Williams getting his back in order would certainly help him out too - I want to see him fully healthy for a full season and see where we stand. And Brady making strides to where he can play meaningful minutes in all games would certainly help. And Dailey of course.
They all simply have to become more complete players, whomever returns. Be better ballhandlers, better passers, better shooters, better decision-makers, better defenders.
Get better at everything. Be better compliments to JBo. Take the pressure off him some.
And since we all can count, to "get outside help", that means someone's leaving or not arriving. No sense wishing for something that at this time there ain't room for. Someone transfers, OK then, let's talk.
Moss is rough around the edges, so let's hope he uses the summer to work on his deficiencies. Williams getting his back in order would certainly help him out too - I want to see him fully healthy for a full season and see where we stand. And Brady making strides to where he can play meaningful minutes in all games would certainly help. And Dailey of course.
They all simply have to become more complete players, whomever returns. Be better ballhandlers, better passers, better shooters, better decision-makers, better defenders.
Get better at everything. Be better compliments to JBo. Take the pressure off him some.
And since we all can count, to "get outside help", that means someone's leaving or not arriving. No sense wishing for something that at this time there ain't room for. Someone transfers, OK then, let's talk.
Jbo has really gotten to be a great bounce passer into the big guys, Tom Davis would be proud.
If I'm coach, I write "FREE THROWS" in bold at the top of Ahmad Wagner's to-do list.
Team-up Ahmad Wagner with any four other scholarship players on Iowa's roster and I believe Wagner is the last jump-shot scoring option in a McCaffery set offense.
Wagner's primary role is rebounding, passing, and setting screens. His buckets are going to be within 5 feet of the hoop, mostly on short turnarounds or put backs.......
which leads me back to free throw shooting. Wagner is quick enough to draw fouls from his bigger defenders. He should be lining up for FTs three or four times per game if not more.
The season one-down with Wagner should be pretty straight forward: if you want to be on the court more next season, prove that you can be a more consistent free throw shooter, 47% (36/76) is not going to cut it.
Freethows are important too but 90% of basketball occurs out side of set plays.
There isnt going to be any time for Wagner at the 5 or 4 next year.
Thats why he needs to be able to be a threat to hit a shot if hes going to be on the floor.
So Ahmad Wagner goes from 16 mpg as a sophomore starter to zero mpg as a junior unless he starts hitting outside jump shots? Yeah, no. What else you got?
Obviously every team doesn't have 2-3 point guards that can penetrate at will, dish to an open guy, without turnovers I presume. Almost no one has a single point guard of that level. Two thirds of the starting point guards in the Big Ten are statistically inferior to Jordan in every metric of point guard play.
Jordan got inside several times last night. He tends to rush his shot inside but don't you think he'll work like hell on that problem. My guess he develops a great head fake and draws a lot more fouls. Sometimes when a little guy drives into traffic the best result might be at the foul line. Jordan seems generally level headed and a smart player so I'm sure he can fix many of the holes in his game.
Now, I do agree there has to be someone that can run the team for even just 8-10 minutes in most games. CW gives you a lot on defense but the offense just freezes when he's in the game; and he isn't even a good closer if he's guarded. CW's shooting numbers are horrific .356/.519/.154 To paraphrase Kevin McHale (on Dennis Rodman) you could lock that kid in the gym alone for an hour and he couldn't score 20. It is the Hawks true Achilles heal.
Jordan going to be a 30 minute per game point guard the rest of his career but someone has to play that other 10 in conference games. Williams can't. Moss certainly can't. Ellingson would struggle against tight defense-although he to should be able to fake defenders out of their shoes as well-or being pressed. That's the best choice of the known unsatisfactory options.
Dailey is the only kid on the roster that we do not already know not to be the answer. No one really knows what MD can do because he saw so little playing time. He looks very delicate. MD had some recruiting chops as a combo guard. Let's hope MD's combination of skills looks more like Jordan and less like Christian. There is no one else on the roster or in next season's freshmen that looks remotely like a point guard. MD's summer needs to consist of eating 10-12 thousand calories a day of whatever healthy shit the dietitians recommend; 3 weight sessions, 4 hours of just dribbling the basketball (including some time with a blind fold), and 2 hours playing or scrimmaging against decent players. Point guard boot camp with R. Lee Ermey!
Jordan got inside several times last night. He tends to rush his shot inside but don't you think he'll work like hell on that problem. My guess he develops a great head fake and draws a lot more fouls. Sometimes when a little guy drives into traffic the best result might be at the foul line. Jordan seems generally level headed and a smart player so I'm sure he can fix many of the holes in his game.
Now, I do agree there has to be someone that can run the team for even just 8-10 minutes in most games. CW gives you a lot on defense but the offense just freezes when he's in the game; and he isn't even a good closer if he's guarded. CW's shooting numbers are horrific .356/.519/.154 To paraphrase Kevin McHale (on Dennis Rodman) you could lock that kid in the gym alone for an hour and he couldn't score 20. It is the Hawks true Achilles heal.
Jordan going to be a 30 minute per game point guard the rest of his career but someone has to play that other 10 in conference games. Williams can't. Moss certainly can't. Ellingson would struggle against tight defense-although he to should be able to fake defenders out of their shoes as well-or being pressed. That's the best choice of the known unsatisfactory options.
Dailey is the only kid on the roster that we do not already know not to be the answer. No one really knows what MD can do because he saw so little playing time. He looks very delicate. MD had some recruiting chops as a combo guard. Let's hope MD's combination of skills looks more like Jordan and less like Christian. There is no one else on the roster or in next season's freshmen that looks remotely like a point guard. MD's summer needs to consist of eating 10-12 thousand calories a day of whatever healthy shit the dietitians recommend; 3 weight sessions, 4 hours of just dribbling the basketball (including some time with a blind fold), and 2 hours playing or scrimmaging against decent players. Point guard boot camp with R. Lee Ermey!
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Cook and Pemsl will take almost all the minutes 4, with some Bear. Kriener and Garza the 5.
Its extreemly easy to understand.
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