No, let it continue. It is the best way to vet and sort opinions. Everything reaches an eventual conclusion.The Seminole Tribe was part of the committee that created Chief Osceola. You need to stop.
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No, let it continue. It is the best way to vet and sort opinions. Everything reaches an eventual conclusion.The Seminole Tribe was part of the committee that created Chief Osceola. You need to stop.
I could have phrased that better.No, let it continue. It is the best way to vet and sort opinions. Everything reaches an eventual conclusion.
Not being critical. But, following this thread, I feel as if we're close to that conclusion. The other poster has now become quite cynical of the people he started out trying to "protect".I could have phrased that better.
Actually, I find it absolutely hilarious that you would speak for an indigenous people as if you actually represent them. You do know that the Seminole Nation has given their blessing to the iconography of which you speak?I don’t think the Big Ten blue bloods want to be associated with that racist iconography.
(And yes, it’s racist even if the Seminole nation likes it.)
The Seminole Tribe doesn't receive a penny from FSU for their relationship.They may know how, but they clearly didn’t choose that way, I imagine for the money.
Instead, they chose a single, stereotyping image.
If the Seminoles are OK with it, you have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to be critical. It does NOT affect you!!!But why don’t they have the warrior one week, a banker the next, then a teacher? Aren’t those all Seminoles?
I started out to protect all people from stereotyping, not just Seminoles.The other poster has now become quite cynical of the people he started out trying to "protect".
Yes. And they were wrong to do so. It legitimized stereotyping.Actually, I find it absolutely hilarious that you would speak for an indigenous people as if you actually represent them. You do know that the Seminole Nation has given their blessing to the iconography of which you speak?
You have offended every Native American in the country. You do NOT represent any tribe. Yet, are telling the Seminoles they are wrong. You are a bigot!I started out to protect all people from stereotyping, not just Seminoles.
Nonetheless, how have I become cynical of the Seminoles?
True, not directly: But: Tampa Bay News: “While the Seminole Tribe of Florida gets no financial compensation for the university's use of the Seminole name and related symbols, the richness of the relationship brings a variety of social and economic benefits to our tribe”.The Seminole Tribe doesn't receive a penny from FSU for their relationship.
Telling someone they are wrong makes me a bigot?You have offended every Native American in the country. You do NOT represent any tribe. Yet, are telling the Seminoles they are wrong. You are a bigot!
My lord, you idiot. That refutes your own stupid argument.True, not directly: But: Tampa Bay News: “While the Seminole Tribe of Florida gets no financial compensation for the university's use of the Seminole name and related symbols, the richness of the relationship brings a variety of social and economic benefits to our tribe”.
…and economic. Wish I could bold.
How?My lord, you idiot. That refutes your own stupid argument.
When you attack the Seminoles, which you have done repeatedly, yes.Telling someone they are wrong makes me a bigot?
Are they receiving money from FSU? Edit: That is what you previously stated. I still feel embarrassed for you.True, not directly: But: Tampa Bay News: “While the Seminole Tribe of Florida gets no financial compensation for the university's use of the Seminole name and related symbols, the richness of the relationship brings a variety of social and economic benefits to our tribe”.
…and economic. Wish I could bold.
The Seminoles and FSU have a tremendous relationship, with the University honoring the tribe’s history and present-day community in many, many ways.Yes, it is harmful. It’s a single image portrayal of a whole set of complex people. This dehumanizes Seminole people.
I don't know, maybe this exchange.I started out to protect all people from stereotyping, not just Seminoles.
Nonetheless, how have I become cynical of the Seminoles?
They may know how, but they clearly didn’t choose that way, I imagine for the money.Are you saying that the Seminole Tribe doesn't know how to accurately portray the Seminole Tribe?
But can’t a person attack a person or group for reasons other than the person or group’s race or ethnicity?When you attack the Seminoles, which you have done repeatedly, yes.
Fighting IrishNo. Because the problem here is not exclusive to Seminoles.
Any reduction of any set of people down to a single image stereotype is wrong and dangerous.
Am I not sure if anyone knows what your point is anymore?But can’t a person attack a person or group for reasons other than the person or group’s race or ethnicity?
No. I didn’t say they were receiving money “from FSU”. I said they agreed to things “probably for the money”, i.e. “economic benefits” per the tribe’s spokesperson in the Tampa Bay News clip I posted.Are they receiving money from FSU? Edit: That is what you previously stated. I still feel embarrassed for you.
I believe this is true, and honorable.The Seminoles and FSU have a tremendous relationship, with the University honoring the tribe’s history and present-day community in many, many ways.
Lol…what a silly thing to worry about…just leave the Chiefs alone. I think many, many people want the return of the Washington Redskins. In any event, football fans still think of that organization as the Redskins. Why don’t we just get rid of the Minnesota Vikings name /logo as that offends people of Scandinavian descent.Matter of time before the Chiefs change their name and stop that stupid tomahawk chop also.
This whole argument was about race.But can’t a person attack a person or group for reasons other than the person or group’s race or ethnicity?
But you’ve decided to be offended. Very interesting. 🤨I believe this is true, and honorable.
Thanks. I do think they agreed to things “for the money”.I don't know, maybe this exchange.
They may know how, but they clearly didn’t choose that way, I imagine for the money.
Carry on with this discussion; I've nothing more to add. At this point, you have become the Black Knight on this one.
Again, that is not the same thing. They are the “Fighting Irish”, not “the Irish”. Therefore it makes sense and is okay to portray the “Fighting Irish” as…fighting.Fighting Irish
Thank you for clarifying. You are saying the Seminole Tribe sold out their history to FSU for mascots and chants. All because of money.No. I didn’t say they were receiving money “from FSU”. I said they agreed to things “probably for the money”, i.e. “economic benefits” per the tribe’s spokesperson in the Tampa Bay News clip I posted.
Well, the post calling me a bigot spun off a side point, with me challenging the idea that criticizing a person or group makes one a bigot against that group. It does not.Am I not sure if anyone knows what your point is anymore?
Again, not offended. But I think single image stereotyping of a group of people is wrong and dangerous.But you’ve decided to be offended. Very interesting. 🤨
Even if the group you believe is being stereotyped doesn't agree? Also, that has helped create the images/traditions that you believe contribute to this stereotype?Well, the post calling me a bigot spun off a side point, with me challenging the idea that criticizing a person or group makes one a bigot against that group. It does not.
But my central point here remains: Any stereotyping of a group of people (e.g. Seminoles) into a single pervasive image (e.g. Chief Osceola on a horse) is wrong and dangerous.
That’s a little wider than I would say. But I think they damaged their future (and those of their tribe members) by accepting the stereotyping in exchange for “economic benefits”.Thank you for clarifying. You are saying the Seminole Tribe sold out their history to FSU for mascots and chants. All because of money.
Yes, it is harmful. It’s a single image portrayal of a whole set of complex people. This dehumanizes Seminole people.
You see, the funny thing is…the two ‘parties’ involved disagree. The ACTUAL tribe doesn’t have that opinion, but YOU do? Come on, Mark from Jersey……Well, the post calling me a bigot spun off a side point, with me challenging the idea that criticizing a person or group makes one a bigot against that group. It does not.
But my central point here remains: Any stereotyping of a group of people (e.g. Seminoles) into a single pervasive image (e.g. Chief Osceola on a horse) is wrong and dangerous.
Irish people that I know, (as well as Americans of Irish descent) would tell ya that they aren't offended because they aren't a bunch of pussies. Maybe the Seminoles feel the same.Fighting Irish
In what ways?That’s a little wider than I would say. But I think they damaged their future (and those of their tribe members) by accepting the stereotyping in exchange for “economic benefits”.
I am sure the emails and text messages between the playoff committee and ESPN executives will prove this conspiracy.I saw somewhere else claim that FSU especially, but the whole ACC may have a claim against ESPN in that they are operating their media contract in bad faith. ESPN actively campaigned against an undefeated FSU to keep them out of the playoffs. It’d be interesting to be a contract lawyer on behalf of FSU digging through a way to get out of the deal.
Yes. The Seminoles were wrong to support this stereotyping.Even if the group you believe is being stereotyped doesn't agree? Also, that has helped create the images/traditions that you believe contribute to this stereotype?
How noble of you to be offended on their behalf.Yes, it is harmful. It’s a single image portrayal of a whole set of complex people. This dehumanizes Seminole people.