I rest my case. "F**k you, I got mine, now go f**k yourself". And you wonder why people don't like the boomer generation.
Gen Z and Millenial hatred and vitriol toward boomers
- Thread starter General Tso
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I didn’t really get that out of his post. I’m not saying there aren’t some people with that attitude, but there is something to be said for retirement accounts which follow the worker.
FYI, I'm only 60 and I don't have a pension, I have a 401K. My dad had a pension. He's dead so you don't need to respond with a F**k him response. You need to take a break because you're over the top with anger towards people older than you. Seek help.
For BioHawk to say "I rest my case" is just crazy. Talk about reading into something and trying to justify your anger. The guy is nuts.
What he fails to see is that when my parents died the pension went away and there was very little to inherit (which I'm ok with). Now with 401K's my kids have a good chance to be millionaires when I die.
This is a big point people don’t always get. Pensions and government retirement typically end when you die, unless the spouse gets a benefit. They are like an annuity, with no generation of wealth. 401ks on the other hand keep the principal intact which grows at an acclerated rate with no tax consequences until withdrawal. If you’ve done it right, you live off less than the dividends and interest and it continues to grow until it is passed along to your heirs.
The most amusing part of the generational threads is how tribal we are.
Some lib boomer may take shots at the MAGA GOP and Goldie will mount the best defense of her team that she can. And that same lib will be her ally defending her Boomer team against whichever other team has made a critical point.
It's kind of nice seeing the mixing of the teams and the same emotion based defense of whichever tribe that one belongs to.
Same phenomenon with actual teams like FSU or Iowa.
Must. Always. Defend. The. Tribe.
Some lib boomer may take shots at the MAGA GOP and Goldie will mount the best defense of her team that she can. And that same lib will be her ally defending her Boomer team against whichever other team has made a critical point.
It's kind of nice seeing the mixing of the teams and the same emotion based defense of whichever tribe that one belongs to.
Same phenomenon with actual teams like FSU or Iowa.
Must. Always. Defend. The. Tribe.
I don’t think “boomers” were recipients of “participation” trophies..,maybe some late born boomers but most of us, not so much. I know I never saw a participation trophy growing up.,
He was saying Boomers invented the giving away of participation trophies - which we did - then mocking our children’s generation for receiving participation trophies - which we do. I think it’s a pretty fair point.
FWIW, around 2010 I suggested our youth football league not give participation trophies, and the other coaches/dads thought I was crazy. When my wife was displaying everything my son ever got I suggested we separate the participation trophies from the ones he actually won by accomplishing something, and she didn’t even grasp my point.
Definitely we Boomers created participation trophies.
He’s wrong that way too…not too many “boomers” were in position to be running organizations at ages 22 -25… boomers from 1946-64….those “participation awards” weee started hy folks older than me and I’m an early boomer.
I think partipation trophies began in the eighties, when the typical Boomer was in their 30’s. We were raising children and started it.
Well, I wasn't begrudging your dad specifically, but it is a perfect example of the system that his generation dismantled working really well for him. Did he personally get rid of it? I don't know who he voted for but people his age did get rid of these things. And by the way, it's not just pensions. If all they did was get rid of pensions and replace them with 401k's (although those really belong in the personal savings leg of the retirement plan) we'd probably be alright. However they also stagnated wages while exploding upper management pay. The reality is there are millions of people who do not have enough to retire today that otherwise would have been able to if the work conditions were the same as they were 50 years ago.
It's also funny that you blame millennials for job hopping so much. You say that like it was a choice. Maybe if those companies gave those millennials a reason to stay they wouldn't have. However, they found it was cheaper to let them leave and hire new help.
And am I angry? No, I'm in pretty good shape personally. But it's hilarious how these "why do young people hate us so much" threads get started, it gets explained to you, and your reaction every single time is "stop being so angry". Because another common trait for Boomers is they don't take responsibility for ANYTHING they did poorly. Just look at Trump.
And just to be clear, I'm talking about generalities, nobody specific.
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“Bad News Bears” movie, mid 70’s, “participation awards” were given...lots of junior golf programs at the same time (and earlie) were big on participation medallions...art, I’m just saying, these “participation awards” did not start with “ boomers”......we received them, though.
Pensions were never designed to provide wealth for your children. However, the third pillar of retirement, personal savings, were. There is no reason you couldn't have a 401k and a pension. Social security, pension, and personal savings. That's what was supposed to keep a roof over people's heads once they became too old to work. I'm not saying pensions were perfect, by the way. There were certainly a lot of problems with them, and that being businesses going bankrupt and people losing their pensions being a big one. But they got rid of them and didn't replace them with anything. Sure, they say the 401k did that, but it really didn't. It was just taking the personal savings part and trying to use that to cover the pension part too. Considering the results, that doesn't work. Most people just don't make enough money to get enough savings to make up what was lost with the pension.
So we shouldn't have given 1st, 2nd and 3rd place trophies?
You nailed it regarding those who had pensions that were tied to a specific company. I knew people who worked for TWA and their pensions were basically invested in TWA stock. I also had friends who worked for United Airlines when their retirements were tied to UAL stock, at one point UAL stock fell to $1.00 a share you can image how their retirement checks were impacted.
Pensions are simply a form of deferred compensation. The risk of a pension is that company won't be around, didn't fund it correctly, manage it correctly, or maybe the company gets raided for the massive pension fund built up.
401ks would be a great replacement for a pension, transfers that wealth to the employee, more certainty it would be there. Problem is the matching part is short of what was put away in pensions, as was pointed out earlier.
The other issue is when I hear people say "I make $XX,XXX". That doesn't tell me the whole story. Do you have salary, match, pension, and other benefits? You know, total compensation? Or is it straight salary? People don't think about that.
401ks would be a great replacement for a pension, transfers that wealth to the employee, more certainty it would be there. Problem is the matching part is short of what was put away in pensions, as was pointed out earlier.
The other issue is when I hear people say "I make $XX,XXX". That doesn't tell me the whole story. Do you have salary, match, pension, and other benefits? You know, total compensation? Or is it straight salary? People don't think about that.
There you go blaming people again. My dad was born in 1931, he wasn't a boomer. All this time blaming boomers and he wasn't a boomer. Pensions started to go away after 401K's were created in 1978. At that point the oldest boomer was only about 30 years old and the youngest was 14. You keep using the phrase "I got mine, screw you" to represent the boomers when < 50% of the boomers weren't even in the workforce yet. That wasn't the boomers making the decision to switch from pensions to 401K, it was a corporate business decision. I don't know where you've come up with the idea that boomers took away your pension, but I guess it gives you someone to blame who's still alive. You're such an angry @ss.
You expect the working conditions of today to be the same as they were 50 years ago? There maybe be things from 50 years ago that you like but there are probably a lot of things from 50 years ago that you wouldn't like. Should we go back to a women not being about to get a business loan, should we not have the advancements in medical care, should we not have cars that are more efficient? You don't get to pick and choose what you want to keep from 50 years ago, it's not that simple.
Yes, you're extremely angry, you're previous post to me was an example of that.
I had a relative lose an absolute shit ton when Oliver/White Farm closed in Charles City. Keep your pension and give me a 401k vehicle.
Only exception being government pensions.
No one said pensions were to provide wealth for your children, we're saying that's that benefit of 401K's. Now you're making stuff up, it was never intended to have a 401K and a pension. Pensions started to go away when 401K's were created. The 401K was a replacement for the pension or in cases where companies didn't have a pension, it was to provide a retirement plan for the employee. You act like every company had a pension. Companies started after 1978 more than likely didn't offer pensions but rather 401K's. That's not taking away pensions, that just never having them. There's a lot of companies that were started during the growth of technology in the 80's. To you, you see pensions going away but what you're really seeing is the affect of companies not offering pensions for financial reasons. No one took away your pension, many people chose a job that didn't offer a pension. You can still find them at certain companies so if you want one, go for it, get a job there. You have a chose to make, you make and stop blaming others for your decision.
LOL.
Link to Goldie defending the “MAGA group”?
Other than that you make an interesting observation.
You mean the ones that we taxpayers pay for even if we don’t have one ourselves? 🙁
Everyone complains about participation trophies and I find it really odd. My kids got all kinds of trophies, some participation and some for finishing 1st, but at no time did it every change their view on life. When my kids were really young they weren't competitive and didn't care about the sport or the trophy. When they hit middle school the wanted to play and win. Again the trophy didn't really mean much. They had so many trophies that it didn't matter to them to get another even if it had 1st place on it. They wanted to play. At no point do I look back and think the trophies were a bad thing.
People should have a few dollars “socked away for a rainy day” regardless. (A phrase my Mom used)
They’re not but they’ve become a metaphor of sorts for how some kids have been raised in a protected cocoon unprepared for the realities of adult life.
How demoralizing that you younger folks seem unable to distinguish between age or generation vs policies. SOME Boomers deserve your criticism. Most don't.
On the flip side, SOME Boomers brought you free speech, civil rights, consumer protections, environmental awareness, and improved health care, among other positives. But plenty didn't.
You'd make more sense targeting those who worked against those values. And, yes, a lot of them are Boomers of the Republican persuasion. But it isn't just Boomers who put those assholes in office.
On the flip side, SOME Boomers brought you free speech, civil rights, consumer protections, environmental awareness, and improved health care, among other positives. But plenty didn't.
You'd make more sense targeting those who worked against those values. And, yes, a lot of them are Boomers of the Republican persuasion. But it isn't just Boomers who put those assholes in office.
Thanks. The post used the term "MAGA GOP" which is a term with essentially the same meaning as GOP, or Republican Party, or Republicans. And it's just about every thread about that group that you participate in. It's my observation that you're willing to be critical of your own tribe, but if it's a poster from outside your tribe that is making the critical points, then it's a full throated defense.
I don't think that's a all that unique of a phenomenon.
I don't think I've ever had anybody make more wrong assumptions about me than you have been doing. You think this is anger when in fact it is debate. You are choosing to get overly defensive because you somehow think I am talking about your dad, personally. There's only one of us here who is coming across as an angry gasbag here. When I say their attitude was "F**k you, I got mine", that is the most accurate way to describe the attitude, as a generation, that they exhibited. And they still exhibit that attitude because they still aren't interested in solving any problems. Well, maybe with the exception of illegal immigration, but that's another issue completely.
401k's may have been created in 1978, and that's great. 401k's are a great thing to help savings, they just aren't enough to replace pensions. 401k's may have been invented in 1978, but that's not when the majority of pensions disappeared. Just like many other issues, problems got worse because boomers, as a generation, didn't do anything to try and correct them. Were there plenty of boomers who tried? I'm sure there were. But they failed. Gen X on the other hand never had the power to do anything, there numbers aren't large enough to wield much political power. I suppose we are entering the prime time for them to be in charge of stuff so there is still some time, but I doubt they will be much better. It is looking good on transitioning off of oil, but I'm not sure if that is because Gen X is reacting to legislation and political pressure or how much they are leading on that. Elon Musk is a Gen X'er so that's something.
It's interesting that you wanted to only display the trophies where you felt he accomplished something. Why are you making that decision and not him? If he's playing youth football then he didn't accomplish 1st place, the team did. Maybe he felt he didn't participate that much on a team that finished 1st but yet played a big role, or had a lot of fun, on a team that finished 5th. Maybe he want's to display the trophy for 5th place because he has good feelings about that team. But all you're focused on is 1st place because it makes you feel good. For you, you look at a trophy to show others that your kids are great, but maybe that's not the real reason for a trophy. You might want to listen to your wife more often, sounds like she might be the smart one in the family.
So, in the 100-yard dash there are 10 runners and it's ok? But in the 200-yard dash there are only 4 runners and only 1 gets a trophy? Sounds right to me.
That is how I switched up my thinking on it. I know that their of plenty of older progressive types that opposed the bad and supported good policy. Which is essentially all I am doing now. I would hate for 30 years from now for the youngers to be like "damn millennials, you let the etc etc happen."
A lot of this stuff went down because you just need a small percentage to fall for marketing, fake news, and propaganda.
What people intended them to be and what they ended up being aren't the same thing. Their intention may have been to replace pensions, but that didn't work. You can argue and debate this all you want, but that won't change the fact that the majority of Americans are now unable to retire because they do not have enough money saved up.
I will give you that the retirement stats might be a bit skewed though because those numbers include people who never got a college education or other post high school certification (like becoming an electrician or something). I'd be interested in seeing what the retirement numbers are for college graduates, people with other professional skills, and non-college graduates.
I don't know, all I know is I got a participation ribbon once and I had never been more insulted in my life. I would have preferred getting nothing. The participation ribbon actually stung more than losing. Not only did I lose, they had to rub it in with this stupid "Haha, you suck but thanks for trying" ribbon.
Take a look at your first response to me, you absolutely just to conclusion and claimed a proved your point when I never said anything that you were claiming. You were just waiting to make that post because you're mad. Not only are you angry but you're also just pissed at anyone who came before you. You're making generalizations to justify your anger. People can create a decent retirement if they actually save in a 401k, I know because I've done it. I don't need a pension. You're stuck in the 1950's where someone works for the same company for 30 years and then retires. People are not the same as back then. Companies are not the same. Why would a new company today want to create a pension when most people would prefer a 401k.
I know, I know, I know, you hate trump, you hate musk, you hate republicans. I'm a liberal as well and don't like trump and musk but I don't let that influence me to hate everyone in a generation, or in your case multiple generations.
So people blame the trophy and not the parent. Art seems to think that if he removes the participation trophies from the shelf, all things will be good.
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