Mike is just 31 assists away from his season high of 135 of last year with, at the very least, seventeen games to go. Having a great season.
Gesell stepping up
- Thread starter Ihawkhoops
- Start date
Mike has always been an excellent player, but due to the team around him, he was expected to carry the team. This year, there are several other guys who can score so MG is getting better looks as defenses look at his teammates, he is healthy (his shooting woes two years ago were difficult to watch with the injury), his academic load is in good situation, recently engaged (my daughter actually sold him the engagement ring), etc. MG has always played with maximum effort during the last 4 years too and according to all reports is an excellent citizen and person. Will he be an NBA player, probably not. But I have no problem cheering for him. Senior day will be very sad when we realize this fine young man will no longer be wearing an Iowa uniform, just like it was for White, Marble and Gatens before him.
And for any haters out there, think what the point situation will look like the next couple of seasons. We will struggle big time with Williams so hopefully Fran has something else in the works.
And for any haters out there, think what the point situation will look like the next couple of seasons. We will struggle big time with Williams so hopefully Fran has something else in the works.
MG is doing a much better job this year playing within himself and playing to his strengths. He's not driving to the basket unless he has a favorable matchup defending him, and he's pretty much scrapped the outside shooting game. He's focused on running the offense, the midrange jumper, and playing solid defense, all his strengths.
It also doesn't hurt that he's playing with one of the best players in the league in Uthoff who's also been one of the most efficient players in the conference. Uthoff would make any PG look better. Actually, Baer has also been one of the most efficient players in the conference.
MG has never been expected to carry the team, but agree many expected more of an offensive contribution because the lack of scoring options in the half court offense.
Iowa could struggle mightily at PG next year, but that's more a knock on Fran than kudos to MG. If Fran is able to land Ulis I don't think people would be concerned about PG play. Heck, if Fran was able to recruit any good PG that last 2-3 years we wouldn't be so concerned. It's amazing he hasn't been able to recruit/sign a decent PG post MG.
So, you've already made the decision that Williams and Bohannon are going to be busts next year?
He's attempting basically the same amount of 3s a game as last year, just knocking down a good percentage.
Agree that the pressure for him to score has abated. There also seems to be much less stalling at the end of games this year, in that there are options, players who can get their shots off, even under duress. MG is playing much smarter, and seems to be more at peace. He has a nice pull up jumper, which lots of players struggle to execute. Baer has one also.
I don't know what the plan for PG is either, next year, should be interesting, for sure.
I don't know what the plan for PG is either, next year, should be interesting, for sure.
Most people have forgotten that he has been injured during each of the last three seasons including last year when he couldn't get a three point shot all the way to the basket. Thumb, hand shoulder or elbow, and foot have either caused him to miss time or limit his effectiveness.
Next year I'm quite sure will take care of itself. I like everything Fran has done and it seems better each and every year. Until this is no longer the case, I feel the Hawks will again be going to the tourney whether anyone else believes it doesn't matter to me. I have watched Williams play. He has the skills to be a very good to great PG and cause real matchup problems IMO. I'm looking forward to the future but really right now enjoying the present.
Nope, not writing them off but they've proven nothing so far, so it's difficult to call them good PG's at this point. Remember a kid named Trey Dickerson?
Great, you also thought Fleming was the second coming of Ronnie Lester.
Since for six months you've been replying to my posts regardless, I took you off ignore. Another massive exaggeration here Phantom. ^^^^^^ But sadly I see than that you have written off Fleming before even his freshman season is over?
Yes, in your world McCaffery would be gone by now and Iowa would be suffering another rebuilding process while the team you really respect and admire, Illinois, wouldn't be stuck in the Big Ten's basement. How is your hero, Sir Illini, by the way? Still making claims of the great future under Coach John Groce?
Ah all those dire warnings of Nebraska passing Iowa, Illinois becoming dominant. You know, it was never really the way you twist my words that bothered me, it was the way you twist reality like the true propagandist you are to try to stir up Iowa fans to quick decisions toward the negative. But, that's getting harder isn't it. Maybe you should move on and pretend to be a fan of another team....wait, you probably do already.
Anyway and as usual, this time next year Williams will be performing at a very good level and exhibiting the skill that will just improve with development. Meanwhile, you'll make some claim that you never doubted it and will have changed your focus on some other aspect of the program which is in dire straights.
LOL, Trey Dickerson? There will always be some outlier for you to latch onto, won't there.
At the least...next year at PG will be exciting...That Williams is great would be wonderful. And Fran must have a plan, he seems highly competent, for the most part, at picking and developing talent.
One a positive spin...perhaps he has great confidence in Williams, is teaching him the system, in the safety of practice. This is plausible given the fact that we have seniors in the slot now, and given the fact that Fran might not want to harm Williams, long term, by throwing him into the fire to cook to soon, and singe him for life.
On another positive spin, Fran might think we have a great shot to win the conference, outright, given our talent, the senior laden team, and the 3-0 start. No need to risk that, right now, with Williams or others with significant time in the breech. Plus, there haven't been many minutes in the conference to coast enough to "toy" with future PG options.
We will see soon enough how it all plays out. Let's get through the next 4-5 games with a decent record and we will be sitting very nicely.
One a positive spin...perhaps he has great confidence in Williams, is teaching him the system, in the safety of practice. This is plausible given the fact that we have seniors in the slot now, and given the fact that Fran might not want to harm Williams, long term, by throwing him into the fire to cook to soon, and singe him for life.
On another positive spin, Fran might think we have a great shot to win the conference, outright, given our talent, the senior laden team, and the 3-0 start. No need to risk that, right now, with Williams or others with significant time in the breech. Plus, there haven't been many minutes in the conference to coast enough to "toy" with future PG options.
We will see soon enough how it all plays out. Let's get through the next 4-5 games with a decent record and we will be sitting very nicely.
I do remember Fran saying in Sapp couldn't go against Nebraska, he would use Williams to back up MG. The commentator asking the question was asking if he would go big or use Brady as the backup and he quickly said he would go with Williams. To me that said volumes. I believe he feels that he has shown enough in practice to get the chance if circumstances force the issue, but no way is he at this point going to change up the chemistry unless he is put in that position by injuries. Things are gelling as they are. We may want to see it( Williams playing) or see more Uhl, see Baer starting, etc, but it took a loss to ISU for Fran to say ok I need to play the younger guys in limited minutes to spell the starters and I don't in anyway blame anyone for that. They lost a game regrouped , learned and see what has happened since. I expect little change until circumstances force an adjustment. My guess is Fran still has lots of teaching he wants to accomplish this year. It's a luxury to have had players in the program for 4 years learning his system.
agree...although I'm not sure it took the loss... I think if we had won (which we were in position to with a minute to go) .. Fran would still have seen the need to play & trust his bench more (Baer,Ellingson&Wagner)...which he basically said as much after the game. Had he done so I believe the ISU run from the 11 min mark to about the 4 minute mark in the 2nd half.. would have been more difficult for ISU...in at least we would have had a few fresher legs.
the loss did seem to bring the guys even more together ... which I appreciate. Sometimes it goes the other way & been around finger pointing plenty of times...shows the character of the players & seniors.
PG is a question mark next year, but there is no reason to assume that Williams and Bohannon can't get the job done, especially if Fran believes in them. Williams has the luxury of playing against Mike and Sapp every day in practice, and carefully watching how they perform. Of course, I am less confident than I was with two experienced senior PGs going into this year, but let's at least see what they can do, before we start talking about their limitations.
It seems to me that the more air Mike gets underneath his feet, the better shooter he becomes. Does anyone recall what kind of foot injury he had and when it occurred?
He had a stress fracture his freshman season while we were playing against Nebraska. He was out several games as I recall, or was it limited? That's when we found out Marble had learned to handle the point pretty well and we played all the way to the final game before Baylor beat us in the NIT. We should have gone to the NCAA Tournament but Ted Valentine would not allow us to win against MSU that year in the Big Ten Tournament.
Thanks Danl. There's certainly nothing wrong with Mike's form, when healthy, and this, along with the other injuries, might explain his improved shooting percentages this year.
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Not writing off Fleming at all. You are the guy who claimed he'd be starting by this time and definitely playing a lot more minutes. You were hyping the kid up like he was the second coming. It's just one of your many hype jobs that was way off the mark. If you remember our little discussion (your tantrum) last summer, you'll remember I didn't knock any of the incoming freshman class. All I said is you were overhyping these kids, setting them up for unfair expectations, especially this year with a team loaded with seniors. I added these kids could end up being very good players, but we shouldn't expect much from them in the first year since Iowa had so many returning starters and it takes time to adjust to playing college ball. I've been proven right as Fran redshirted two players and given very few minutes to any other freshman, the same players you were handing out minutes so freely to in your summer analysis. All I told you was to temper your expectations and you went off the deep end with a rage that would embarrass a 5 year old. I get why you want to change your tune now but spare us the melodrama.
You are a strange bird. You don't know me but you know I'm an Illini fan. I'm a Hawkeye fan, never have been an Illini fan. You are just upset because I don't let you get away with saying something and then later claiming you never said it. You lied to us about your comments about rankings and now you want to do it with the evaluation of players. To fool people you need to change the subject and make things up about what I said. Don't worry, next year I'm going to archive your summer projections/evaluation of players so I can copy and paste your comments so you can't run and hide like you love to do.
"Anyway and as usual, this time next year Williams will be performing at a very good level and exhibiting the skill that will just improve with development. Meanwhile, you'll make some claim that you never doubted it and will have changed your focus on some other aspect of the program which is in dire straights. "
LOL. You have the ability to see the future. You "know" Williams will be performing a very good level.... You having superpowers. I don't know how he'll be performing. I've also never said he won't be a good player. What I've said is I'm skeptical he'll be an elite PG, or above avg PG. The reason I think this is because if he was an elite talent at PG you'd think he'd be the starting PG on his high school team. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe his coach was an idiot. He hasn't proven he's an elite PG, above avg PG, but maybe he'll develop into one. I don't disagree with that point, what I disagree with is you claiming it is a fact that he will be one. If you showed even the slightest bit of humility in your comments I'd give you some credibility, but you don't so I don't.
Dickerson is just an example, but as usual you miss the point. List all the elite/above avg PG's Fran has landed post Gesell? Williams might be but he hasn't proven the point yet. Neither has Bohannon or any of the other freshman. I hope they become elite/above avg. Unlike you, I'm more interested in Iowa winning than scoring points on a message boards with blowhards, like yourself.
Excellent points. I wouldn't pencil in anyone as the starting PG at this point. Williams may be the guy, he might not be. Too early to tell, especially since we aren't seeing these young guys play this year. I don't blame Fran for not giving them more minutes. His objective is to win games this year, and it's pretty clear he feels this objective is best achieved by playing his seniors and his 2 sophs (I know, Baer is redshirt freshman). This isn't a knock on the freshman it's just that Fran believes they have a better chance of winning with the guys with more experience.
There's no reason to assume they can't get the job done, but there's also no reason to assume they can. We don't know. We might know more at the end of the season or the summer (PTL). I'm not sure Fran believing in them is a ringing endorsement at this point. What choice does he have? They are all we have so Fran is "stuck" with them, good or bad, and Fran isn't going to say he doesn't believe in them. He also believed in Dickerson until practices started and then he didn't.
Before anyone takes my comments wrong, I'm not saying Williams and/or Bohannon can't get the job done, what I'm saying is going into next season PG is a huge (the biggest) question mark. I'd expect a significant drop off in PG performance from this year to next year. MG isn't elite but he's played very well this season and there's no substitute for 4 years of starting experience. Remember, Uthoff is a wonderful bailout player this year when the ball goes stagnant, making MG job much easier. Williams/Bohannon won't have that luxury next season. Jok will be the only returning starter, and he's not a creator he's a shooter. Iowa's offense could really struggle if the PG's struggle.
its' the meds...they don't always work.
There is no reason to believe they can...and there is no reason to believe they cant... holy sh*t.
said it before...some of these people are actually driving
...Bob you are babbling, again. You are going senile. We don't know where we stand at PG next season. PG is the biggest question mark going into next season. True or false?its' the meds...they don't always work.
There is no reason to believe they can...and there is no reason to believe they cant... holy sh*t.
said it before...some of these people are actually driving
I'm not sure how many wins he has as a four year starter but I think it's been a good 4 year run at point . NBA talent no but top division big 10 talent yes. If he wasn't hurt last year this play would be just more of the same
Being senile I say true & false..there is no reason to believe it is & there is no reason to believe it is not.
Not really a question mark. You've already explained to us that McCaffery has not recruited any good PGs.
Well, at least you admit your senility. That's a good start, so now maybe you can get help.Being senile I say true & false..there is no reason to believe it is & there is no reason to believe it is not.
No, actually I haven't said that but misrepresenting my position is pretty par for the course here. He recruited Ulis who's a pretty good PG. He recruited Gesell who's a good PG. I've said he hasn't been able to land an elite/above avg PG post Gesell. Now, Williams and Bohannon might end up being elite or above avg PG but we can't assume that as fact at this point. Right now we (us fans) don't know what we have with Williams and/or Bohannon at PG and likely won't know until next fall. I'm pretty sure you and Bob don't get invited to practices, but I forgot Bob is an expert on all things team related because his brother's best friend, high school sweetheart, has an uncle who's kid is the coach of Bettendorf high school boys basketball team (in case you don't realize it, I'm being sarcastic).
So, I'll ask again since Bob isn't brave enough (or sharp enough) to answer the question. True or false, PG is the biggest question mark heading into next season?
1) You mean the posts that included the word "Guesswork" in the title?
2) Ah, the posts where I repeatedly said this year would be about the seniors, and playing time would be limited?
3) Pal, I've repeatedly either ignored you, complained about you, or argued with you since over a year ago. You make up fantasies about what I've said and then try to sound like some genius coming in to prove me wrong. Look at this latest rant! You are freaking psychotic! I would suggest that if nothing else folks can view how often you reply to my posts with summaries of something you claim I've said. It's too bad we don't have archives that go back far enough or I'd shut you down in a heartbeat. But the evidence is all over the place, "Remember what DanL said a long time ago and I can't quote it, you can't look it up, but now let me SAY what he said? Do you think people will believe that crud?
3B) And, again, "Remember what DanL said last summer but we can't look it up so I'm going to make it up and claim it is what he said!?!?" You DOLT!!! Who cares what I said last summer!?!?!?! You are literally stalking a guy on a sports forum and bringing up supposed comments from months ago!!!
I repeat! You are bringing up things I supposedly said MONTHS AGO!!! Who does that?
And finally:
4) Wow, at least Gesell has finally been promoted to above avg. by the Phantom! That's nice!
Don't mistake my efforts to stay brief for agreement with anything you said.
No, actually I haven't said that but misrepresenting my position is pretty par for the course here. He recruited Ulis who's a pretty good PG. He recruited Gesell who's a good PG. I've said he hasn't been able to land an elite/above avg PG post Gesell. Now, Williams and Bohannon might end up being elite or above avg PG but we can't assume that as fact at this point. Right now we (us fans) don't know what we have with Williams and/or Bohannon at PG and likely won't know until next fall. I'm pretty sure you and Bob don't get invited to practices, but I forgot Bob is an expert on all things team related because his brother's best friend, high school sweetheart, has an uncle who's kid is the coach of Bettendorf high school boys basketball team (in case you don't realize it, I'm being sarcastic).
So, I'll ask again since Bob isn't brave enough (or sharp enough) to answer the question. True or false, PG is the biggest question mark heading into next season?
It's amazing he hasn't been able to recruit/sign a decent PG post MG ... this is what you posted in this thread.. then when you get called on it...you back peddle with Right now we (us fans) don't know what we have with Williams and/or Bohannon at PG and likely won't know until next fall
If you don't know what we have in Williams or Bohannon then why would you say Fran hasn't been able to recruit a decent PG post Gesell?
this is your MO...you post sh*t ...then you cry that people are misrepresenting your position.
... I feel for you.Good grief Bob, it's not difficult. MG is a senior. His soph year, no quality PG brought in. During his Jr year, no quality PG brought in. During his senior we get a guy (Williams) who played most 2G in hs and is being considered for a move to the PG position. We've seen how many minutes from him this year to convince you (us) he's a good PG? Was Williams a highly rated PG coming out of high school? How about Bohannon? Jeebus, we have no evidence that Fran has been able to recruit and sign a elite/above avg PG post MG. Now, could Bohannon and WIlliams change that? Sure, and if they do THEN I will change my narrative above and say Fran has recruited elite/above avg PGs. Do you understand yet, or do you need to dip back into your meds?It's amazing he hasn't been able to recruit/sign a decent PG post MG ... this is what you posted in this thread.. then when you get called on it...you back peddle with Right now we (us fans) don't know what we have with Williams and/or Bohannon at PG and likely won't know until next fall
If you don't know what we have in Williams or Bohannon then why would you say Fran hasn't been able to recruit a decent PG post Gesell?
this is your MO...you post sh*t ...then you cry that people are misrepresenting your position.
Good golly, you and your brother flip out if anyone goes against your narrative and you resort to misrepresenting people's positions to accomplish this point, just like both of you did with Bean's post about the ISU game. I don't care that your nephew is the Bett bball coach, and I don't care if you or Dan coached ball before, because it doesn't mean jack squat in whether you know what the hell you are talking about in these threads.
Once again you can't defend on your own words...so what you do is twist everyone elses..
for example you just posted ... We've seen how many minutes from him (Williams) this year to convince you (us) he's a good PG? find where I said he is or will be a good PG...you can't..because I didn't. OH I believe in Fran's ability to teach & recruit talent..he has proven that.
I also didn't say Fran has not been able to recruit a decent PG post Gesell...you did. So its ok for you to post this but its not for someone else to post they believe that Williams will be a good PG ?
So when you can't defend your own words...you attack others & make up what they posted.
..when you don't get people to agree with you..you go off telling us we are flipping out.
..There have been plenty of replies to you on this thread ..not all of them came from DanL or myself.
1) Then why did you come unhinged when I questioned your "guesswork"? You want to have it both ways.1) You mean the posts that included the word "Guesswork" in the title?
2) Ah, the posts where I repeatedly said this year would be about the seniors, and playing time would be limited?
3) Pal, I've repeatedly either ignored you, complained about you, or argued with you since over a year ago. You make up fantasies about what I've said and then try to sound like some genius coming in to prove me wrong. Look at this latest rant! You are freaking psychotic! I would suggest that if nothing else folks can view how often you reply to my posts with summaries of something you claim I've said. It's too bad we don't have archives that go back far enough or I'd shut you down in a heartbeat. But the evidence is all over the place, "Remember what DanL said a long time ago and I can't quote it, you can't look it up, but now let me SAY what he said? Do you think people will believe that crud?
3B) And, again, "Remember what DanL said last summer but we can't look it up so I'm going to make it up and claim it is what he said!?!?" You DOLT!!! Who cares what I said last summer!?!?!?! You are literally stalking a guy on a sports forum and bringing up supposed comments from months ago!!!
I repeat! You are bringing up things I supposedly said MONTHS AGO!!! Who does that?
And finally:
4) Wow, at least Gesell has finally been promoted to above avg. by the Phantom! That's nice!
Don't mistake my efforts to stay brief for agreement with anything you said.
2) Yes, so limited you were giving plenty of minutes to several freshman, including the starting job to Fleming. LOL. Hey, I knew you were off your rocker, I'm just glad you are confirming it.
3) It is to bad we don't have archives so far back, but don't worry, next summer I'm going to archive your "predictive analysis", because this is your m.o. You make these crazy comments/predictions, get called out of them, then go "wtf, I never said it". When you write something, own up to it. You shift positions when called out and then misrepresent what others say. You've done it with both Bean and I in the past couple days. Who can take you seriously when you call me a Illini fan. I've never written anything positive about the Illini. If you would remove the burr from your side you'd see I've said lots of nice things about Fran and the Hawks. Ditto for the football team. You are a tool. My brother was a 4 year letterman at Iowa in baseball and my nephew was a 3 year starter for the football team. LOL at you thinking your a bigger Hawkeye fan than I.
3B) So, you've had me on ignore for the past 6 months but you know what I've said. LOL. I think you have a little mancrush on me and are dying to find out what my comments are. Who puts someone on ignore and then stalks them by finding out everything they've written?
4) Because unlike you I don't get so rapped up in my feelings I'm blind to stats. You think a guy must be above avg if you tout them as such coming out of high school. Performance be damned in the DanL world. Even the stats you cite are old school stats. You are like the old fart telling us Player X is a great player because he drove in a 100 runs and hit .290. It's why it's hard to take you seriously, you are a relic.
MG has been playing above avg PG THIS year. He's been avg before this season but stepped up his play this season. I know advanced metrics are a little too advance for a dim bulb like you. It's also abundantly clear you don't understand a thing about statistics or sample sizes as you demonstrated last week by your embarrassing post trying to cherry pick the data points comparing the coaching records of Fran to Davis and Lute. Dan, it's fine if you are ignorant on statistics, but admit your ignorance, don't dig you heels in and dig yourself a deeper grave. Stick to what you do know, whatever that may be, but it's certainly not comparative stats.
Dan, don't worry about me confusing your "brevity" with agreement. If you agreed with me I'd have to re-evaluate everything I've written since you are so consistently wrong about things.
I twisted nothing. You did.
To the highlighted. So, then you are now agreeing with me that Fran has yet to show he can recruit and sign an elite to above avg PG? You are implying Williams elite/above avg by claiming I'm wrong. I said Fran hasn't recruited and signed a elite/above avg PG. Look it up as I've stated this several times.
LOL. I've defended my own words very capably, you've gotten your panties in a wad because you can't disprove my point. I've stated I'll revise my statement WHEN/IF Williams/Bohannon/or someone else is playing like an above avg/elite PG.
Oh, and I never said Fran doesn't have the ability to teach and recruit talent, in fact, I've said the opposite. My specific point has been about PG and I'm not saying he CAN'T recruit/sign a elite/above avg PG, I'm saying post Gesell we have yet to see one. Williams and Bohannon MIGHT be. Do you understand this? Might. They have not proven they are elite/above avg PGs. They certainly weren't ranked as elite/above avg PG's, but they could develop into one. Williams wasn't even a PG (at least a majority of his minutes) in high school against lesser competition.
Here's the crux of the matter and you are doing you darn best to avoid answering this question because you know it exposes your argument as a shallow one. Is PG the biggest question mark going into next season? Why do you run away from answering this simple question?
The hilites are your words...I realize its hard for you to recognize what you type so I try to point them out for you...so lets try again & see if you can man up...
..you said on this thread Fran has not been able to recruit a decent PG post Gesell
..did you not post this on this very thread?
now you post I said Fran hasn't recruited and signed a elite/above avg PG...
then to make things worse for yourself you post ... now stay with me these are your words...Right now we (us fans) don't know what we have with Williams and/or Bohannon at PG and likely won't know until next fall
ok so lets see Phanty says:
1) Fran has not been able to recruit a decent PG..
2) we don't know what we have with Williams or Bohannon
*** if we don't know what we have with Williams or Bohannon ..how can you say Fran has not been able to recruit a decent PG?
I'm trying to make this simple for you ... you are absolutely correct in saying we don't know what we have with Williams or Bohannon at PG...therefore it would be incorrect (for you) to say Fran has not been able to recruit a decent PG...
Iowa is knocking down more shots as a team, Mike G. is actually making most of his layup attempts and his free throws. All things better than his first 3 years.
Good point...and I would like to apologize for the hijacking of this thread....I should have stuck my fingers in a hot cup of coffee..it would have been less painful.
