The team that lost 12 out of their last 18 games and scored a whopping 41 points against Pitt was better than last year’s team. Color me skeptical.
Give me Otzelberger. Yeah I said it.
- Thread starter Sett1997
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This year's ISU team would be a 3 point favorite over last year's team according to KenPom.
That’s the thing…no one knows. I wasn’t impressed with the way Larranaga completely owned Drake in the last 5 minutes by slapping on that full court press. Devries looked lost.
Remember when Alford was hired, everyone was excited, but we soon learned that he was pretty green? That could be the exact same scenario with Devries. Or he could lead the Hawks to the 2nd weekend…who knows?
According to my eyes, they suck donkey balls.
I will never, ever root for ISU but....I'd rather be in ISU's position when it comes to basketball. They have shown the ability to get to the 2nd weekend of NCAA games, they've shown the ability to recover from a very bad season, they seem to be recruiting well (that doesn't automatically equal success, but it certainly get people excited), and they aren't afraid to try a different coach when the results haven't been great.
Last year's team went 7-11 in conference, lost 72-41 in the first round of the Big 12 tourney, and scored 36 points at home on senior night. They finished #20 in the NET this year and #41 last year.
Big difference is they came in against Pitt ice cold, nobody could hit open shots or layups. Last year in the first round Hunter had a shooting performance for the ages going 7-11 from 3. Basketball is still a sport where you need to make shots and sometimes they just don't go. You hope it's not when it really matters in the tourney but that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.
Ain't that the truth. Plus the draw matters.
ISU was ok last year (an #11 seed) and had a fantastic draw. This year ISU was a bit better, but still had fatal flaws. Will be interesting to see if the offensive ineptitude starts to become a trend in Year 3 for TJ or if it's just a matter of getting his roster composition to his liking.
Iowa will be a significant underdog in Ames next year.
Couldn't ask for a better draw with Pitt. One of the worst defensive teams in the tourney in that #11 seed range. Got absolutely obliterated by Xavier. Just didn't matter.
Iowa is 0 and 2 in the past two ncaa tourneys as a 5 and 8 seed. Iowa State went to the Sweet Sixteen last year and lost first round this year. I know what results I would take!
No one is stopping you, brother. Take the leap.
ISU in the Tournament the last two years has scored 59, 54, 56, and 41, along with some other head-scratching offensive performances (36 points at home on senior night, Big 12 Tournament, etc.). The big question is whether this is the trend of TJ's teams, or just early in his tenure?
Of course the point is to win the game, and ISU has some very nice wins already in his tenure, but if you're trying to build what I consider the MSU model (tough, handsy defense, limit possessions, selective breaks/shoot good shots), you have to embrace the thin margins between winning and losing on any given night.
As to the point of the thread, I'm good with Fran instead of TJ.
Of course the point is to win the game, and ISU has some very nice wins already in his tenure, but if you're trying to build what I consider the MSU model (tough, handsy defense, limit possessions, selective breaks/shoot good shots), you have to embrace the thin margins between winning and losing on any given night.
As to the point of the thread, I'm good with Fran instead of TJ.
As expected clown fans were sqwalking that Tournament performance is all that counts when evaluating how good a team or program is. Now that the latest version of isu basketball got smoked in the first round of the Tournament they are still better not because of their actual Tournament performance but because of their net ranking going into the Tournament.
So as I have said many times before, clown fans will tout something only to change it once it shows that isu isn’t as awesome as clown fans thought they were. Funny how history keeps repeating itself.
Or tell me how I have this all wrong Bryce. Another trait of the clown fan base I love so dearly. When they are changing the criteria for what counts they insist on ignoring any reality that gets in the way of one of their feeble arguments.
So as I have said many times before, clown fans will tout something only to change it once it shows that isu isn’t as awesome as clown fans thought they were. Funny how history keeps repeating itself.
Or tell me how I have this all wrong Bryce. Another trait of the clown fan base I love so dearly. When they are changing the criteria for what counts they insist on ignoring any reality that gets in the way of one of their feeble arguments.
If that's the case........how do you feel about the Clown's epic bed-shatting in March Madness?! What a f'ing embarrassment 🤡 😂 🤡😂
Tourney performance isn't all that counts when evaluating a program, but it's the most important. This year was a failure in that regard, but I consider the season successful because the benchmark for that IMO is making the NCAA's.
I don't totally understand your second sentence. Are you saying ISU got smoked in the tourney, but ISU fans are claiming they are still better than Iowa? To be honest I don't think it's a very meaningful argument at this point.
Both teams flamed out in the tourney, Iowa won the head to head matchup, ISU finished better in the metrics, and both teams graduate a whole lot of production and leadership and are going to have some pretty major holes to fill in the transfer portal.
ISU is kind of exactly who I thought they were, a good team with a very low floor if they aren't making shots.
ISU is kind of exactly who I thought they were, a good team with a very low floor if they aren't making shots.
As much as I hate to say it.....that describes the Hawks almost exactly.
Who do you guys lose?
The matchup next year in Hilton could be pretty interesting, if for nothing else, there will be a lot of new players on both teams?
I look at Purdue.....great and strong program in the B10......and yet their NCAA Tournament work is terrible. Iowa fans would want to fire Painter if that were the position we were in.....
Take a look at the PU BB board and some want painters head now.
They are dismissing the BIG and BTT titles as meaningless...all about the dance.
I know I am old school but give me a BIG title and Fran is golden.
How many years does Fran have left on his contract? Hoping for Devries or an Otzelberger is not going to happen any time soon. No other school would pay Fran the money he gets at Iowa. We are stuck with Fran for at least 3 years.
What I would hope for is for
A) Barta to be fired as has been called for by state auditor...and hopefully we would get a better AD in...but no guarantees
B) Barta to quit extending Fran's contract so the buyout can be slimmed down
C) Fran himself to look in mirror and embrace defense---make some tradeoffs on recruiting/substitution patterns to improve Iowa defensive rating
Looking at the Sweet16 teams, my recollection is 9 out o16 are top 16 in defense. Of course helps to be good at offense, so something like 6 out 16 are top16 in offense. Iowa had a top3 offense (but night and day on road) and 150 or so ranked defense. We needed to be more like Top 20 offense, top 40 defense for better balance and better mental toughness/road shooting.
A lot Comments on this board ring true.
Iowa player's need to bulk up and get a lot stronger--too many slender/weak guys. Fran needs to willing to commit fouls to protect the basket. Don't play guys that don't play good defense (pmac stands out). Be willing to play guys through mistakes early in season to hopefully payoff at end (Bowen didn't get enough minutes, ulis too many). Big man Ball is losing ball---at least if your lineup look like Purdue. I'd prefer at 6'9 shot blocker/rebounder at one of the two Big positions. The kid out of NJ fits the bill...but he's only one on the entire team. The Braun kid looks like another below the rim Big.
Fran can do a lot better. When 8/14 teams in B1G making NCAA....just getting to ncaa tourney in itself is not that high a bar although a large chunk of fan base are fine with participation awards. Fran is only 4-7 in all his ncaa appearancs at Iowa...you gotta get to 66% type winning percentage to be a Sweet16 team in any given year. Defense keeps you in games to allow you to win at end if you get some breaks.
What I would hope for is for
A) Barta to be fired as has been called for by state auditor...and hopefully we would get a better AD in...but no guarantees
B) Barta to quit extending Fran's contract so the buyout can be slimmed down
C) Fran himself to look in mirror and embrace defense---make some tradeoffs on recruiting/substitution patterns to improve Iowa defensive rating
Looking at the Sweet16 teams, my recollection is 9 out o16 are top 16 in defense. Of course helps to be good at offense, so something like 6 out 16 are top16 in offense. Iowa had a top3 offense (but night and day on road) and 150 or so ranked defense. We needed to be more like Top 20 offense, top 40 defense for better balance and better mental toughness/road shooting.
A lot Comments on this board ring true.
Iowa player's need to bulk up and get a lot stronger--too many slender/weak guys. Fran needs to willing to commit fouls to protect the basket. Don't play guys that don't play good defense (pmac stands out). Be willing to play guys through mistakes early in season to hopefully payoff at end (Bowen didn't get enough minutes, ulis too many). Big man Ball is losing ball---at least if your lineup look like Purdue. I'd prefer at 6'9 shot blocker/rebounder at one of the two Big positions. The kid out of NJ fits the bill...but he's only one on the entire team. The Braun kid looks like another below the rim Big.
Fran can do a lot better. When 8/14 teams in B1G making NCAA....just getting to ncaa tourney in itself is not that high a bar although a large chunk of fan base are fine with participation awards. Fran is only 4-7 in all his ncaa appearancs at Iowa...you gotta get to 66% type winning percentage to be a Sweet16 team in any given year. Defense keeps you in games to allow you to win at end if you get some breaks.
Since the position Purdue is in is far, far superior to Iowa's, I think Iowa fans would be happy to give Fran 13 more years if he approached Painter level in his next 13 years
Painters multiple B1G conference titles alone set Painter far apart from Fran and the NCAA tournament performance is also far better....Painter has sweet16 and I think he has Elite 8 also.
Purdue overachieved with 1 huge guy and 4 meh guys. It is natural for Fans to want more. I would say Painter's seat is a lot cooler than Fran's.
We all know Fran needs his team to play better defense....he has stated many times that they need to play defense without fouling....SO:
There are two retired coaches now with earned reputations that might match Fran's philosophy......Jim B from Syracuse (the famous Cuse zone) and then Bo Ryan for the packline defense....I know, Wisconsin didn't play without fouling....but they don't get called for the fouls.
Could Fran tap into those guys in the off season....bring them on as adviser's like football does?
There are two retired coaches now with earned reputations that might match Fran's philosophy......Jim B from Syracuse (the famous Cuse zone) and then Bo Ryan for the packline defense....I know, Wisconsin didn't play without fouling....but they don't get called for the fouls.
Could Fran tap into those guys in the off season....bring them on as adviser's like football does?
I'm certainly not saying Painter is on the hot seat...no way and no way should he be....BUT, I think more than a rational analysis of Fran's coaching success at Iowa is on the plate here.
Familiarity breeds contempt......and I can certainly see a segment of our fan base being fed up with Painter upon losing AGAIN to a lower seed after winning the B10. I would almost guarantee it. I haven't checked but I read another poster say they checked their boards and there are some idiot fans there fed up with Painter.
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My shot at clown fans is that you all always change what counts and matters as soon as that measure or metric proves to be false. All that mattered last year wasn’t that isu was an 11 seed but that they got to the sweet 16. Now this year you and others say this years team is better than last year even though this years team completely flamed out.
This isn’t new, it happens all the time with clown fans. It is why isu isn’t taken seriously.
It’s interesting that Purdue has never had much NCAA success with all the Big titles they have won, and they play defense. Even under Keady they were a perennial NCAA disappointment. At Iowa we’ve traditionally had some NCAA success going back to the 50’s (until Fran) even though we’ve not won a a big title in 43 years.
Another example is how clown fans went on and on and on and on and on about how supposedly awesome the Texas Ten was this year and yet when the sweet 16 hits the SEC and Big East have more teams than the mighty Texas Ten.
Must ignore or were clowns fans just wrong yet again?
Must ignore or were clowns fans just wrong yet again?
The one year I think they had their best team with JaJuan Johnson, E'Twaun Moore, and Robbie Hummel, Hummel tore his ACL shortly before the tournament.
a more accurate picture of what ISU BB is:
16-38 in Big 12 play last 3 seasons. That is more indicative than a win over an LSU team in complete freefall and without a head coach and a win over a Wisconsin team that struggled like hell to score. (they had just lost a home game on Senior Night to Nebraska) They were blew out by Miami and Pitt in their 2 losses in the tourney.
Also see that the powerful Toledo women's team that routed ISU lost by 47 to Tenn. Nice.
See we have to pick and choose what counts and what doesn’t for clown fans to accept reality. They are really good at running their mouths and then running away and hiding when their bs doesn’t hold up. Which is basically all the time.
Last year's season was pretty rough at times, that was totally redeemed by a completely improbable run in the NCAA's.
This year had a lot more even performances that ended up in a totally abysmal tournament, which leaves a bad taste in the mouth on the season as a whole.
But the team was better. For one game, the most important game they played all year, it was really, really bad. That one game doesn't change that this team was better though.
Next year it'll be 4 seasons, then the year after it'll be 5 seasons, because you'll have to include that historically bad season under Prohm I'm sure.
We were by clown fans that the tournament is all that matters. I can see why that criteria doesn’t count now and we must look at something else. Just how isu fans roll.
Hmmm.... I wish Iowa fans didn't poke fun at other team's tournament performances.
I assume you are referring to the wishes of the more vocal fans on this board. In reality, both Painter and McCaffery are safe as milk with their respective administrations.
That's a favorite Clown trick. Adjust the time frame to make Iowa look it's worst.
Frankly, I don't know how you can label a team as good, when they lost nine of their last thirteen games. That would seem to fit right in to what they joyfully refer to the Fran Fade, but yet it's perfectly acceptable when it happens to one of their teams.
All that matters is winning in March. Mostly the big dance but the conference tourney title also matters to a lesser extent. And it’s a body of work. You don’t look at a program solely on how they perform just one season. Iowa basically played a coin flip game against a good team. But you look at what happened the year before, when they got beat by a bad 12 seed. Then you look at what happened the year before that when they got boatraced as a two seed before the second weekend. Then you see how many times they get boat raced in the tournament by power 6 teams, and therein lies the problem. Mainly lack of guard play and defense in the big dance.
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As an iowa fan, by any metric, iowa state has been much more successful than iowa in the past decade or since Fran got here. Conference titles, tourney success, nba success. It’s not even close to be honest. It’s just like iowa state football fans trying to argue they’ve had a better program than iowa. Just isn’t there.
