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Gonzaga = fraud

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Ihawkhoops

HR All-American
Dec 10, 2015
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I don't buy the myth that is Gonzaga. They get hyped every year for amassing wins against conference teams that are, to be kind, bad. I suspect Drake would have finished 3rd in the anemic conference they play in. St. Mary's being rated in the top 25 is also a joke.

Put a P5 school in the Iowa Conference and let them beat up on Coe and others and give them a 1 seed and you have Gonzaga. Sure they play a few non-conference games, but it's not the same as the rigors of an actual competitive conference schedule.

It's a joke and the NCAA should not reward joke programs with a seed higher than 5. Their "tough" non-conference games included Arizona, Florida, Iowa State, Washington, and Tennessee. Iowa played Iowa State, UVA, Notre Dame, UNI, Seton Hall and multiple ranked teams in the B1G. They beat St. Mary's, a "ranked conference opponent", by almost 60 combined points in 3 games.

Much more respect for Butler who stepped up to play in a real conference.

Gonzaga's SOS = 86. Iowa = 47

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/rankings/sos


Look at these scores for Gonzaga:

93-55 over Loyola Marymount
79-43 over U. San Diego
96-49 over Pepperdine
96-38 in the rematch with San Diego
82-50 over Pacific
 
I think they're their most complete team every this year! I think they'll be in final 4..
 
Why the hate for the Zags? No bad publicity, solid program year in a year out. I'll be rooting hard for them if they get to face NC, Duke, Louisville or a bunch of other programs. Go Zags!
 
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The only thing I dislike about the Zags is their Cs beard. Man he need to trim that thing.
 
Gonzaga is a good team, I watched a couple of their games and the one thing I noticed was they have a great size advantage downlow. I forget the foreign guys name but he is big and skilled. How far they go depends on who they face, if they face a team that has some decent size and plays physical they will their hands full.
 
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backinblack23 said:
Gonzaga is a good team, I watched a couple of their games and the one thing I noticed was they have a great size advantage downlow. I forget the foreign guys name but he is big and skilled. How far they go depends on who they face, if they face a team that has some decent size and plays physical they will their hands full.
Click to expand...

And he's not even the best big on their team.
 
Living in the Seattle area and being a college basketball fan, I've watched Gonzaga play often over the years. In general, they do a good job in scheduling quality teams out-of-conference (difficult to get teams to play in Spokane during December), but without question the WCC conference lacks depth. I've often said they would be much better served to join the Mountain West conference. The team this year is legit. Experienced, solid from the perimeter and in the post @ both ends of the court. Excel in pace of play, ball movement and can rebound as well. Top 7 players are solid. Not a homer, but they deserve a 1 seed.
 
This post definitely elicits a WTF reaction from me. Gonzaga passes the eye test, for one. And two, they've been competitive in almost every NCAA tournament they've played in. So it's not like this year is an anomaly. Gonzaga has a good program; they aren't a one-hit wonder.

Last, I don't get what you're trying to prove by comparing their non conference schedule with Iowa's. According to the AP, Arizona is rated #7, Florida #17, and Iowa State #23, and you're trying to assert Iowa's is so much tougher because they played UNI and Seton Hall. Huh?

Nothing personal, but pretty ridiculous.
 
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I watched Gonzaga play St Marys. Gonzaga looked much slower then I anticipated. I would fade them in brackets.

For the person who mentioned the 2015 Gonzaga team being good, wtf?
The 1980 Iowa team would kill that bulldog team
 
Who cares if they beat Iowa in 2015? They should given they are such an elite program, correct? They are a nice team, but it's a joke that they get ranked as high as they do and no way they should ever get a 1-3 seed playing in that awful conference. Iowa would run St. Mary's and likely have 2 losses (Gonzaga) playing the likes of Loyola-Marymount, USD, and Pepperdine.

Gonzaga plays a 6 game season, then feasts on conference teams that, with the exception of St. Mary's, fall into the category of paycheck collecting wood shed beating teams for p5 programs. If we were talking surfing, I suspect their conference would fare well, but if you watched any of their games played in high school gyms against teams that are roughly equivalent to Western Illinois, you would understand.

The Mountain West is not much of a step up, but they would at least face D-1 athletes and play in some tough venues. They should not be ranked as high as they are and should never get a 1 seed IMO. Iowa handled ISU and Gonzaga beat them by 2. Beating teams by 30+ consistently should signal you need to move up.

I hope Iowa gets in and I hope Gonzaga meets a legit opponent in round 2 and gets bounced.
 
Ihawkhoops said:
Who cares if they beat Iowa in 2015? They should given they are such an elite program, correct? They are a nice team, but it's a joke that they get ranked as high as they do and no way they should ever get a 1-3 seed playing in that awful conference. Iowa would run St. Mary's and likely have 2 losses (Gonzaga) playing the likes of Loyola-Marymount, USD, and Pepperdine.

Gonzaga plays a 6 game season, then feasts on conference teams that, with the exception of St. Mary's, fall into the category of paycheck collecting wood shed beating teams for p5 programs. If we were talking surfing, I suspect their conference would fare well, but if you watched any of their games played in high school gyms against teams that are roughly equivalent to Western Illinois, you would understand.

The Mountain West is not much of a step up, but they would at least face D-1 athletes and play in some tough venues. They should not be ranked as high as they are and should never get a 1 seed IMO. Iowa handled ISU and Gonzaga beat them by 2. Beating teams by 30+ consistently should signal you need to move up.

I hope Iowa gets in and I hope Gonzaga meets a legit opponent in round 2 and gets bounced.
Click to expand...
Ihawkhoops said:
I don't buy the myth that is Gonzaga. They get hyped every year for amassing wins against conference teams that are, to be kind, bad. I suspect Drake would have finished 3rd in the anemic conference they play in. St. Mary's being rated in the top 25 is also a joke.

Put a P5 school in the Iowa Conference and let them beat up on Coe and others and give them a 1 seed and you have Gonzaga. Sure they play a few non-conference games, but it's not the same as the rigors of an actual competitive conference schedule.

It's a joke and the NCAA should not reward joke programs with a seed higher than 5. Their "tough" non-conference games included Arizona, Florida, Iowa State, Washington, and Tennessee. Iowa played Iowa State, UVA, Notre Dame, UNI, Seton Hall and multiple ranked teams in the B1G. They beat St. Mary's, a "ranked conference opponent", by almost 60 combined points in 3 games.

Much more respect for Butler who stepped up to play in a real conference.

Gonzaga's SOS = 86. Iowa = 47

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/rankings/sos


Look at these scores for Gonzaga:

93-55 over Loyola Marymount
79-43 over U. San Diego
96-49 over Pepperdine
96-38 in the rematch with San Diego
82-50 over Pacific
Click to expand...
A little NCAA perspective on the myth of Gonzaga. Since 1999 Gonzaga has amassed 24 wins in the NCAA tourney, 2 elite eight appearances and an additional 5 appearances in the sweet sixteen. There record speaks for itself and easily explains why they have earned respect nationally as a premier basketball program.
 
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What else can they do but beat that weaker competition by 30 night in, night out? They played a respectable non-con, dominated their conference and have 1 loss on the year. They're a hell of a team. Now, would they have this type of a year in a power conference? No way in Hell. But one could argue they still would be right up there in 1 seed contention. I'm sure Iowa would sweep through the WCC but with our non-con would probably still have to win the conference tourney to get in. Even if our only two losses were Gonzaga in conference. That's the hard part about being a mid-major and they have taken care of business. No room for error and they came out and beat their conference opponents handily.

I quite honestly don't have a negative thing to say about the Zags. We saw that their program was on a different level than ours a couple years back and this is the best team they have had in some time. I'd be shocked if they don't make an Elite 8 run this year.
 
They are the football Boise St to college basketball. Neat story...win some, but ehh
 
They are the Boise State of college basketball. They play tough teams in the non-conf, but then they breeze through their conference. St marys and BYU are decent teams, the rest of the conference is garbage.

They will win 1-2 games and then put against a Power 5 team in the sweet 16 and bow out. Happens every year.

They are a neat story, but I wouldn't pick them past the sweet 16. Its not their fault they play in a small school conference. They do schedule somewhat difficult in the non-conf but it mainly tournament type games. I can't remember if they ever went to Duke, UNC or Kentucky for games in the past couple of years? That could be a good move for them in the future.
 
Zags might not be the best team, but they are one of the teams that have a legit chance to win it all. Sure, they would have a few more losses, if they were in a Power 5 conference. If you want to bitch about a team, pick one of the cheating blue bloods...
 
The only thing I would agree with here is that if they played in a P5 conference, they would not be in the running for a #1 seed....in no way does that mean they aren't a great team capable of a Final Four run (which they are), just means that in a P5 conference the competition is far superior night after night. Playing the WCC, I think they get away with some wins on nights when they play poorly....
 
OP, what did Mark Few do to you? They aren't talked about as much as they used to be since they're winning consistently now and win games in NCAA tournament. No longer a Cinderella story.
 
2016 11 seed beat 6(Seton Hall), 3(Utah) lost to 10(syrcuse)
2015 2 seed beat 15, 7(Iowa), 11 lost to 1
2014 8 seed beat 9 lost to 1
2013 1 seed beat 16 lost to 9
2012 7 seed beat 10 lost to 2
2011 11 seed beat 6 lost to 3
2010 8 seed beat 9 lost to 1
2009 4 seed beat 13, 12 lost to 1
2008 7 seed lost to 10 seed


I don't think these tournament results look elite, not a single win in these nine years against another "elite" team.

Is it an early season advantage for them to have the weak schedule each year to get underclassmen ready vs playing in a P5?
 
Ihawkhoops said:
I don't buy the myth that is Gonzaga. They get hyped every year for amassing wins against conference teams that are, to be kind, bad. I suspect Drake would have finished 3rd in the anemic conference they play in. St. Mary's being rated in the top 25 is also a joke.

Put a P5 school in the Iowa Conference and let them beat up on Coe and others and give them a 1 seed and you have Gonzaga. Sure they play a few non-conference games, but it's not the same as the rigors of an actual competitive conference schedule.

It's a joke and the NCAA should not reward joke programs with a seed higher than 5. Their "tough" non-conference games included Arizona, Florida, Iowa State, Washington, and Tennessee. Iowa played Iowa State, UVA, Notre Dame, UNI, Seton Hall and multiple ranked teams in the B1G. They beat St. Mary's, a "ranked conference opponent", by almost 60 combined points in 3 games.

Much more respect for Butler who stepped up to play in a real conference.

Gonzaga's SOS = 86. Iowa = 47

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/rankings/sos


Look at these scores for Gonzaga:

93-55 over Loyola Marymount
79-43 over U. San Diego
96-49 over Pepperdine
96-38 in the rematch with San Diego
82-50 over Pacific
Click to expand...



We got us a basketball savant right here.
 
HFFL64 said:
2016 11 seed beat 6(Seton Hall), 3(Utah) lost to 10(syrcuse)
2015 2 seed beat 15, 7(Iowa), 11 lost to 1
2014 8 seed beat 9 lost to 1
2013 1 seed beat 16 lost to 9
2012 7 seed beat 10 lost to 2
2011 11 seed beat 6 lost to 3
2010 8 seed beat 9 lost to 1
2009 4 seed beat 13, 12 lost to 1
2008 7 seed lost to 10 seed


I don't think these tournament results look elite, not a single win in these nine years against another "elite" team.

Is it an early season advantage for them to have the weak schedule each year to get underclassmen ready vs playing in a P5?
Click to expand...

I don't follow this logic. Gonzaga is at an advantage in that they can play more of their roster in the conference season due to the inferiority of the league? But how does that then translate into Gonzaga knocking off P5 teams in the non-conference this year? Is it because they were prepared by playing a weak league the previous year?

Gonzaga isn't Kentucky, or Kansas or UNC, or Michigan Stage. But they are good. My guess is it does hurt them going from January to mid-March playing only a few opponents who are very good. Until Gonzaga knocks down the door to the Final 4, they will be looked at skeptically. Very, very good program. Elite? Not as of yet.
 
ISUBryce said:
Gonzaga is 6-0 vs. the RPI top 50. There probably isn't a better noncon performance in the country than them. What else do you want them to do?
Click to expand...

Did they play any of those top 50 teams away? I know they play some of them at "neutral" sites but did they go to the teams Home arena and play? If they want to be known as a title contender, they should play a couple of non-conf games at UNC, DUKE, or some other places.

I think they were a cool story and the cinderella. Now they are getting a lot of top talent and so you can't call them "mid-major" anymore. They are in line with most Power 5 schools in terms of talent. I think the committee looks at their conference as Mid Major and that's why a lot of times they are hesitant to put them at the #1 line. If they joined the Pac 12 or some other Power 5 league, then maybe they would be in better shape.
 
DavenportHawk8 said:
Did they play any of those top 50 teams away? I know they play some of them at "neutral" sites but did they go to the teams Home arena and play? If they want to be known as a title contender, they should play a couple of non-conf games at UNC, DUKE, or some other places.

I think they were a cool story and the cinderella. Now they are getting a lot of top talent and so you can't call them "mid-major" anymore. They are in line with most Power 5 schools in terms of talent. I think the committee looks at their conference as Mid Major and that's why a lot of times they are hesitant to put them at the #1 line. If they joined the Pac 12 or some other Power 5 league, then maybe they would be in better shape.
Click to expand...

Looks like they were all neutral court games this year. As a general rule, most P5 conferences don't play very man non-con road games at all. Iowa's only true road game in the non-con was the ACC/B10 challenge at Notre Dame. Kansas' only true road game was at Kentucky for the B12/SEC challenge. Kentucky's only road non-con game was at Louisville. Duke played no non-conference road games. Iowa State played 2, at Iowa and at Vandy in the B12/SEC challenge.

For sure they are looked at a bit differently due to their league, and they should be. They played only 6 games against the Top 50 RPI and the rest of their league outside St. Mary's is not very good. But they are really good. It wouldn't surprise me one of these years to see them make the Final 4.
 
They only beat ISU by a bucket despite unconscious shooting in the first half, and ISU wasn't playing all that well at the time.
 
DavenportHawk8 said:
Did they play any of those top 50 teams away? I know they play some of them at "neutral" sites but did they go to the teams Home arena and play? If they want to be known as a title contender, they should play a couple of non-conf games at UNC, DUKE, or some other places.

I think they were a cool story and the cinderella. Now they are getting a lot of top talent and so you can't call them "mid-major" anymore. They are in line with most Power 5 schools in terms of talent. I think the committee looks at their conference as Mid Major and that's why a lot of times they are hesitant to put them at the #1 line. If they joined the Pac 12 or some other Power 5 league, then maybe they would be in better shape.
Click to expand...

Most teams like UNC, Duke, etc won't schedule home and home's. They just don't do that all that frequently, especially to travel all the way across the country to play them. It's just not that easy.
 
The Zags always play a stellar non-conference schedule- they will play anyone. The issue I have with them is the weak conference they play in. They beat the 2nd place team in the conference by an average of 17 points per game. Once the Zags get into their conference season the level of competition distorts their season record. If they played in the PAC 12, B1G, Big 12, ACC, etc... and had to play tough opponents every night then I would bet they would have more than 1 loss on the season.
 
They are a tough team to really get a good read on every year because of that conference schedule. Yes, they do try to schedule a tough OOC every year but I think it has hurt them in the past come tourney time if not being truly tested week in and week out. I thought that may work against them again this year but they are so deep and talented they just may pull it off this year. I'm rooting for them but I think if the game is tight late it will favor the Heels.
 
I've said before....posters should be required to pass at least a very basic Basketball 101 test before given permission to post on here. It's for their own good.

Go ahead and hang around and READ. But post? Not like this....no.
 
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Transfer game helps. They got what 2-3 grad transfers that helped this year.

Good team, great year. Just makes you wonder if they will ever get it done.
 
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