I used Obama as an example of how the SCOTUS or the constitution mean nothing when it comes to the left and their agenda.
"Good guy with a gun" kills 14 year old son..
- Thread starter Trevor4Iowa
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The right to own a gun is an individual right guaranteed by the Constitution. Period. It is not, however, inviolate. The right of the people to keep and bear arms does not mean they have the right to be given access to any weapon they wish. That you have to pass a background check, that you have to register your weapon, that your choices might be limited...does not limit your right to own a weapon assuming you're qualified.
Please. We pay no attention to the 3rd. The 18th no longer exists. The 13th is never talked about anymore. Rarely is the 24th. There are plenty of parts of the Constitution that few pay attention to.
Not that any of this matters, because my original complaint that the 2nd is unclear still stands. How do I know? Because not once does it mention guns. The amendment is so muddy that it doesn't even do the service of defining what an "arm" is.
To be specific, the 2nd never mentions guns. So it's an interpretation to include guns in this right.
What about SCOTUS decisions made a hundred years ago has anything to do with Obama or modern day liberals? You're grasping at straws.
I actually agree with you on this part. He probably wouldn't because he probably wouldn't think it was a real danger. But then that begs the point: Why did he go down there with a gun in the first place? Either he thought it was a legitimate threat or not. If not, he shouldn't have been packing. If he did, he should have called the police.
Could I ask the last time it was amended? For two centuries, the 2nd amendment was interpreted to mean that individual governmental agencies could ban guns. We then have a Supreme Court that acted without precedent, overturning a couple centuries of standard laws and practice. Isn't that something that your side consistently accuses "activist courts" of doing?
Arms includes guns unless you think it means:
Don't stop him... he's going full-out retard right in front of us all.
Ah, but this is an interpretation, which means that it's not clear, which is my whole point. The 2nd needs to be interpreted because it's patently unclear.Arms includes guns unless you think it means:
Yes. It absolutely does make it more palatable. The guns aren't the problem.
Of those remaining 11,000 deaths, how many would be left if you set aside gang type violence in liberal run cities like Chicago, Baltimore, DC and Detroit? (all of which guns are illegal!) Take those away and I wonder how many gun deaths are left? The answer is, not that many, especially when you compare to the number of legal gun owners.
New York did a great job under Guliani of cracking down on gun violence. Maybe the left should concentrate on doing what Rudy did? Stop trying to take the rights away from law abiding citizens. Deal with the real issues.; inner city violence and mental illness.
Spend the time, effort and money on mental illness that you guys do on "gun control". You have a much better chance of winning that. But let's be honest. It's just like the "war on women" and the other fake agenda items of the left. It's all about votes.
You guys don't really care more about those 32,000 people more than the right does. It sure makes you feel superior and better about yourselves to say it though. You just want to push an agenda for votes. Period. It's about power and enforcing an agenda.
Can you please point out where it says guns?
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
It doesn't matter if it's inner city or gang related. Guns are still being used to kill people which makes them complicit in all these deaths. Not sure how you can take the one common denominator in all these gun deaths, the gun, and act like it has nothing to do with it?
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It's so disingenuous to blame it on a 'thing.' http://killedbypolice.net/
Also, off those 11,000 deaths, nearly 10% are killed by police. Can we please disarm them already? Take away the suicides, gangbangers and police state and you have a relatively peaceful society.
It's so disingenuous to blame it on a 'thing.' http://killedbypolice.net/
So we should blame all Muslims for the acts of Islamic terrorists. Gotcha.
by your logic, Islam is the one common denominator in all these terror attacks. so do we outlaw all practicing of Islam? Deport all Muslims?
these are your rules. We can play this if you want I suppose.
I'd rather we target the bad people (both Islam and with guns) and target mental illness.
But again, this is your game.
Interesting. First, the 2nd makes no reference to this definition. Second, couldn't any armament like knives or clubs also be included in this definition? It all goes back to my original point. The 2nd needs to be interpreted, which makes your argument, that it is clear, full of swiss cheese.
Well it is kind of hard to kill someone without a gun without first, you know, actually using a gun. Why shouldn't the device itself be complicit in the act?
The Palestinians can't get guns so they're resorting to daily knife attacks.
A gun is simply a tool. You need to stop what causes people from using deadly tools in the first place, instead of trying to outlaw tools.
The Palestinians can't get guns so they're resorting to daily knife attacks.
A gun is simply a tool. You need to stop what causes people from using deadly tools in the first place, instead of trying to outlaw tools.
No, it isn't.
… the term “arms,” in its most comprehensive signification, probably includes every description of weapon or thing which may be used offensively or defensively, and in the most restricted sense, includes guns or firearms of every description, as well as powder, lead and flints, and such other things as are necessarily used in loading and discharging them, so as to render them effective as instruments of offense or defense, and without which their efficiency for these purposes would be greatly diminished, if not destroyed.
State v. Buzzard, 1842
Chief Justice Ringo (not the guy you know) understood that this right was not unlimited.
"And if the right to keep and bear arms be subject to no legal control or regulation whatever, it might, and in time to come doubtless will, be so exercised as to produce in the community disorder and anarchy.”
You are a joke. The only way people like you would be ok with "interpreting" the 2A is if it fits your BS agenda.
Ok then, let's let the NRA rewrite the 2nd amendment. Since they are the most knowledgeable and have a history of implementing safety measurements.
A Brief History of the NRA
Dismayed by the lack of marksmanship shown by their troops, Union veterans Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate formed the National Rifle Association in 1871. The primary goal of the association would be to "promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis," according to a magazine editorial written by Church.
After being granted a charter by the state of New York on November 17, 1871, the NRA was founded. Civil War Gen. Ambrose Burnside, who was also the former governor of Rhode Island and a U.S. senator, became the fledgling NRA's first president.
An important facet of the NRA's creation was the development of a practice ground. In 1872, with financial help from New York State, a site on Long Island, the Creed Farm, was purchased for the purpose of building a rifle range. Named Creedmoor, the range opened a year later, and it was there that the first annual matches were held.
Political opposition to the promotion of marksmanship in New York forced the NRA to find a new home for its range. In 1892, Creedmoor was deeded back to the state and NRA's matches moved to Sea Girt, New Jersey.
The NRA's interest in promoting the shooting sports among America's youth began in 1903 when NRA Secretary Albert S. Jones urged the establishment of rifle clubs at all major colleges, universities and military academies. By 1906, NRA's youth program was in full swing with more than 200 boys competing in matches at Sea Girt that summer. Today, youth programs are still a cornerstone of the NRA, with more than one million youth participating in NRA shooting sports events and affiliated programs with groups such as 4-H, the Boy Scouts of America, the American Legion, Royal Rangers, National High School Rodeo Association and others.
Due to the overwhelming growth of NRA's shooting programs, a new range was needed. Gen. Ammon B. Crichfield, adjutant general of Ohio, had begun construction of a new shooting facility on the shores of Lake Erie, 45 miles east of Toledo, Ohio. Camp Perry became the home of the annual National Matches, which have been the benchmark for excellence in marksmanship ever since. With nearly 6,000 people competing annually in pistol, smallbore and high-power events, the National Matches are one of the biggest sporting events held in the country today.
Through the association's magazine, The American Rifleman, members were kept abreast of new firearms bills, although the lag time in publishing often prevented the necessary information from going out quickly. In response to repeated attacks on the Second Amendment rights, NRA formed the Legislative Affairs Division in 1934. While NRA did not lobby directly at this time, it did mail out legislative facts and analyses to members, whereby they could take action on their own. In 1975, recognizing the critical need for political defense of the Second Amendment, NRA formed the Institute for Legislative Action, or ILA.
Meanwhile, the NRA continued its commitment to training, education and marksmanship. During World War II, the association offered its ranges to the government, developed training materials, encouraged members to serve as plant and home guard members, and developed training materials for industrial security. NRA members even reloaded ammunition for those guarding war plants. Incidentally, the NRA's call to help arm Britain in 1940 resulted in the collection of more than 7,000 firearms for Britain's defense against potential invasion by Germany (Britain had virtually disarmed itself with a series of gun-control laws enacted between World War I and World War II).
After the war, the NRA concentrated its efforts on another much-needed arena for education and training: the hunting community. In 1949, the NRA, in conjunction with the state of New York, established the first hunter education program. Hunter Education courses are now taught by state fish and game departments across the country and Canada and have helped make hunting one of the safest sports in existence. Due to increasing interest in hunting, NRA launched a new magazine in 1973, The American Hunter, dedicated solely to hunting issues year-round. NRA continues its leadership role in hunting today with the Youth Hunter Education Challenge (YHEC), a program that allows youngsters to build on the skills they learned in basic hunter education courses. YHECs are now held in 43 states and three Canadian provinces, involving an estimated 40,000 young hunters.
The American Hunter and The American Rifleman were the mainstays of NRA publications until the debut of The American Guardian in 1997. The Guardian was created to cater to a more mainstream audience, with less emphasis on the technicalities of firearms and a more general focus on self-defense and recreational use of firearms. The Guardian was renamed America's 1st Freedom in June of 2000.
Law enforcement training was next on the priority list for program development. Although a special police school had been reinstated at Camp Perry in 1956, NRA became the only national trainer of law enforcement officers with the introduction of its NRA Police Firearms Instructor certification program in 1960. Today, there are more than 13,000 NRA-certified police and security firearms instructors. Additionally, top law enforcement shooters compete each year in eight different pistol and shotgun matches at the National Police Shooting Championships held in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
In civilian training, the NRA continues to be the leader in firearms education. Over 125,000 certified instructors now train about 1,000,000 gun owners a year. Courses are available in basic rifle, pistol, shotgun, muzzleloading firearms, personal protection, even ammunition reloading. Additionally, nearly 7,000 certified coaches are specially trained to work with young competitive shooters. Since the establishment of the lifesaving Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program in 1988, more than 28 million pre-kindergarten to fourth grade children have learned that if they see a firearm in an unsupervised situation, they should "STOP. DON'T TOUCH. RUN AWAY. TELL A GROWNUP." Over the past seven years, Refuse To Be A Victim® seminars have helped more than 100,000 men and women develop their own personal safety plan using common sense strategies.
In 1990, NRA made a dramatic move to ensure that the financial support for firearms-related activities would be available now and for future generations. Establishing the NRA Foundation, a 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt organization, provided a means to raise millions of dollars to fund gun safety and educational projects of benefit to the general public. Contributions to the Foundation are tax-deductible and benefit a variety of American constituencies including youth, women, hunters, competitive shooters, gun collectors, law enforcement agents and persons with physical disabilities.
While widely recognized today as a major political force and as America's foremost defender of Second Amendment rights, the NRA has, since its inception, been the premier firearms education organization in the world. But our successes would not be possible without the tireless efforts and countless hours of service our nearly five million members have given to champion Second Amendment rights and support NRA programs. As former Clinton spokesman George Stephanopoulos said, "Let me make one small vote for the NRA. They're good citizens. They call their congressmen. They write. They vote. They contribute. And they get what they want over time."
No different than a sword. Why aren't you screaming for sword control?
Before he can say swords aren't able to kill lot's of people in a short amount of time.
You could just as well be referring to Brown v. Board of Education. There is nothing wrong with the Supreme Court reversing course per se.
↑Huey Grey SAID:
It doesn't matter if it's inner city or gang related. Guns are still being used to kill people which makes them complicit in all these deaths. Not sure how you can take the one common denominator in all these gun deaths, the gun, and act like it has nothing to do with it?
ICU SAID:
So we should blame all Muslims for the acts of Islamic terrorists. Gotcha.
by your logic, Islam is the one common denominator in all these terror attacks. so do we outlaw all practicing of Islam? Deport all Muslims?
these are your rules. We can play this if you want I suppose.
I'd rather we target the bad people (both Islam and with guns) and target mental illness.
But again, this is your game.
I didn't want you to skip over this. I'm guessing you have since run away and hid
It doesn't matter if it's inner city or gang related. Guns are still being used to kill people which makes them complicit in all these deaths. Not sure how you can take the one common denominator in all these gun deaths, the gun, and act like it has nothing to do with it?
ICU SAID:
So we should blame all Muslims for the acts of Islamic terrorists. Gotcha.
by your logic, Islam is the one common denominator in all these terror attacks. so do we outlaw all practicing of Islam? Deport all Muslims?
these are your rules. We can play this if you want I suppose.
I'd rather we target the bad people (both Islam and with guns) and target mental illness.
But again, this is your game.
I didn't want you to skip over this. I'm guessing you have since run away and hid
Since the only reason for guns is to kill, (per the gun-grabbers) then shouldn't you be calling for a complete and total confiscation program in this country?
This should include the police and military, and as long as you're at it throw in nukes, missiles, etc. because that's all they are designed for as well: to kill.
You are trying to blame 'things' when it really is stupidity that needs to be blamed. And good luck getting rid of that. It's been around for thousands of years and doesn't seem to be in any danger of fading away.
This should include the police and military, and as long as you're at it throw in nukes, missiles, etc. because that's all they are designed for as well: to kill.
You are trying to blame 'things' when it really is stupidity that needs to be blamed. And good luck getting rid of that. It's been around for thousands of years and doesn't seem to be in any danger of fading away.
