Grandview Open 11/7
- Thread starter Squarehat
- Start date
Agree. I, too, would have liked to have seen more competitive matches between our guys and Long, but dang -- this kid would major most D1 141-pounders, I'd say. Kid is a tremendous talent, plus he's had more than the usual amount of time to mature physically, plus he's presumably very focused an on a mission to dominate everyone.
Not saying we'll have a world-beater at 141 by any means, but I'm not overly distressed by those lopsided losses to a kid of Long's quality. Definitely hoping things work out for Brody at 141, but I'm not all that surprised or disillusioned to see Long handle Carton and Ryan easily. He's NCAA D1 national championship level, after all. Those losses don't necessarily mean that Carton and Ryan aren't capable of beating a good number of D1 guys.
We also had a guy in Matt McDonough that beat Long 5 of 5 times or whatever it was. Great matches all of them, but we had someone who could beat him. That clearly isn't the case at the moment, and that has little to do with Andrew Long, who I would agree would absolutely be the #1 guy in D1 (making the assumption that he is in good wrestling shape, etc. The kid is obviously a great wrestler, and has proven that since day one). My guess would be he would destroy Seth Gross if he were still around as well. He is that good, and we just aren't at that weight right now.
The concern is that even potential Iowa starters are getting majored by anyone. Not that it hasn't ever happened before, but when the program is rock solid, those type of things don't happen. The goal is to trot out 10 guys that can compete with and beat anybody on any given day. We haven't been there for quite some time. Very hard to do of course, but certainly it has been done.
Of course we are hoping guys are improving by leaps and bounds since the last time we saw them compete. Hope springs eternal across the country prior to the season for undecided weight classes on all teams. The only thing we didn't know was if Andrew Long was mat ready. He apparently is, so these results shouldn't really surprise anybody. It doesn't me anyway.
So the question remains if Iowa has anybody in the room at 141 that can be an All-American. That clearly is still up in the air.
Maybe we should have been the ones giving Long the opportunity to redeem himself on and off the mat rather than Ryan. Then with Long at 141 the forever running question of who's our guy at 141 will be answered. And could have possibly 3 NCAA champs in a row for the Hawks at 125, 133, and 141
I do not believe Long has NCAA eligibility. I think he had to go NAIA to even wrestle, although I could be wrong. I do agree about adressing our weaknesses. I know its easier said than done, but we have had a few glaring weaknesses at weights in the past several years that we have known about well in advance. You'd think we could find JUCOs or transfers who can compete at an elite level who would love to wrestle for the University of Iowa. We tend to "stick with our guys" and have an "us versus them mentality" which is commendable and ideal, but I think that hurts us in filling glaring holes in our lineup. Plus, I still suspect Penn State is doing funny math with their scholarships. I know my PSU comment has nothing to do with anything on this post, but just felt the need to stick it in there.
Well if he has no D1 eligibility left then that answers that question. Not that Grandview is not worthy of him because they have made that program into a powerhouse. But figured some D1 school would give this young man another shot. Hope he keeps his nose clean and helps GV bring in another National Championship this year.
Andrew Long needs Grandview far more than they need him. They are ranked #1 with or without Andrew Long.
Have to disagree a little here, sloe. Even our national championship teams have had weak spots. Pretty rare that we have 10 totally rock-solid AA-type guys in the lineup, even on our better teams. I agree completely that the goal is to have 10 studs in the lineup (well, according to Gable and Brands, the goal is always 10 national champs), but we rarely reach it.
Long ran out of D1 eligibility three years ago.
And even if he were eligible I would want no part of him. I'm all for the guy turning his life around but he can work on that at a place like Grandview.
I hear you, I'm not talking studs, or even all-Americans, I'm merely talking guys that don't get majored, but hang in there no matter how good the opposition. We have certainly had some of those teams.
On the positive side, Kemerer appears to be as good as advertised, and Wilcke is potentially better. Sorry we didn't get to see Turk yesterday, as by all accounts he is also better than his HS ranking and likely the best healthy 141-pounder in the room.
On the negative side, regardless of whether you believe the optimal path to success is to recruit pre-made studs or to recruit mid-tiers and coach them into studs, the bottom line is that you've got to have studs on the mat when the lights go on. It goes without saying that a freshman Snyder would have destroyed the 197 field at Grand View, and a freshman Stieber or Retheford would have destroyed the 141 field. I'm concerned that we continue to have too many weights at which we've neither recruited studs nor have coached them into studs. We will not win a team title until we solve this. Yesterday was just one tournament, but it was one tournament following a familiar pattern over the past 5 years. 141 and 197 both failed crucial tests yesterday, and that's the harsh truth.
On the negative side, regardless of whether you believe the optimal path to success is to recruit pre-made studs or to recruit mid-tiers and coach them into studs, the bottom line is that you've got to have studs on the mat when the lights go on. It goes without saying that a freshman Snyder would have destroyed the 197 field at Grand View, and a freshman Stieber or Retheford would have destroyed the 141 field. I'm concerned that we continue to have too many weights at which we've neither recruited studs nor have coached them into studs. We will not win a team title until we solve this. Yesterday was just one tournament, but it was one tournament following a familiar pattern over the past 5 years. 141 and 197 both failed crucial tests yesterday, and that's the harsh truth.
Agree, Tarp, except I think this year's version of Andrew Long would have beaten a freshman Stieber or Retherford. I think this kid is that good. Otherwise, spot-on as usual.
I thought the same thing. Bye is a stud. Great win
Probably because he hasn't beaten anyone yet. Also 157 is kind of a hole in the Iowa lineup and unlike Turk there have been no reports that he is lighting the guys up at his weight.
I'm not trying to say he has no future or anything, but it's too early to give him hype because he won one freshman open tourney.
I mentioned him awhile back as one of my "sleeper" picks for down the road, not really based on anything but gut feeling. His credentials coming in aren't outstanding relative to Iowa top notch recruits, and it's very early. Based on who's here and who's coming and where his weight resides, he'll probably have to do some GREAT things in order to make the lineup at any time. Maybe he'll be up to it. We shall see.
That's a 25 year old man that happens to be a former 2-time D1 AA. I wouldn't put too much stock in it. I promise you this, Heil would rather Long be at Grand View then wrestling for the Hawks on Saturday.
No the boys didn't look good against him last weekend but you have to take some considerations here guys. They are our 3rd and 4th options in the room so of course they'll be overmatched by grown man with lots of skills and attitude. I'm sure they gained a great amount of experience from their two beat downs and will be better because of them going forward.
Go Hawks
No the boys didn't look good against him last weekend but you have to take some considerations here guys. They are our 3rd and 4th options in the room so of course they'll be overmatched by grown man with lots of skills and attitude. I'm sure they gained a great amount of experience from their two beat downs and will be better because of them going forward.
Go Hawks
Him and 6 other kids by the 1st week of January that season, making it less impressive than it seems on the surface.
That 2 month stretch was the biggest lesson in maturity in little bear's life. The benefit of that lesson is well worth occasionally reading about CE's signature win on the HR.
We're just hoping it's the first of many signature wins for Mr. Erickson (he's got a tough road to hoe, we'll see how it goes).Him and 6 other kids by the 1st week of January that season, making it less impressive than it seems on the surface.
That 2 month stretch was the biggest lesson in maturity in little bear's life. The benefit of that lesson is well worth occasionally reading about CE's signature win on the HR.
As good as Larry Early is, even he is still rather unproven on the D1 level, so holding a win over him is one small feat, but we still don't even know if that win is truly a good indicator of how good Cole will be, or if it is even repeatable.
One win in high school (or one FR open title) doesn't make a wrestler buzz worthy. I am still not knocking Cole, but from the Iowa fans I know they don't hype up a wrestler in the room unless there is a reason.
Lol you don't get it do you? I have nothing against Cole. You said no love for him and I'm telling you it's because he didn't beat anyone. I am happy he won.
Similar threads
