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Gun Homicide RATE down 49% since 1993. Public unaware

I guess you can't fathom that it took a bit of time for gun ownership to catchup with crime. Once it did - what occurred?
Why would it have to catch up? If guns deterred crime, you should see a pretty immediate drop. Obviously not a huge one until there are enough guns out there. But still a drop nonetheless.

But we clearly don't see this. For 18 years there is no correlation. Gun rates steadily climb, but crime rates fluctuate at rates that have nothing to do with the number of guns. It's as though the two are completely unrelated.

How does this square?
 
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In other words, why would it take 18 years for guns to start stopping crime?

This is why I favor the abortion cause. Youths are the ones most likely to commit these kinds of crimes, and wouldn't you know it, almost exactly 18 years after Roe v Wade, right when all these unborn youths should have been hitting their criminal peaks, crime starts dropping like a lead sled.
 
Talk is cheap, but persuading Americans to surrender their rights will be expensive, difficult, and time-consuming. A few hours after yesterday’s shooting hit the news, the comedian Rob Delaney penned this tweet:

The @NRA & the politicians they own must not know this T. Jefferson quote. The 2nd Amendment is a ****ING BOY’S COAT. pic.twitter.com/cKR0Nk4Uwm — rob Delaney (@robdelaney) August 26, 2015

For ease of viewing, here is that Jefferson quotation in full (it’s adapted from a July 12, 1816, letter to Samuel Kercheval):

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.

We should be absolutely clear about what Delaney is arguing here: He is a) agreeing with Jefferson that “laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind,” b) contending that “progress” suggests that the individual right to keep and bear arms is now counterproductive, and c) concluding that it is time therefore to make a “change in law and constitution” — in other words, to repeal the Second Amendment. This, it is true, is not a mainstream position on the American Left — at least, it is not one that is argued openly. But it is a reasonably popular one on social media, it has strong support within the more leftward-leaning parts of the political commentariat, it is often implied by the casual manner in which progressives such as President Obama refer to “Australia” and other heavily regulated nations, and it enjoys indirect approval from around one quarter of the American public.

When the likes of Rob Delaney and Bill Maher and Keith Ellison say that we need to get rid of the Second Amendment, they are not speaking in a vacuum but reflecting the views of a small but vocal portion of the American population. And they mean it.

That being so, here’s the million-dollar question: What the hell are they waiting for? Go on, chaps. Bloody well do it. Seriously, try it. Start the process. Stop whining about it on Twitter, and on HBO, and at the Daily Kos. Stop playing with some Thomas Jefferson quote you found on Google. Stop jumping on the news cycle and watching the retweets and viral shares rack up. Go out there and begin the movement in earnest. Don’t fall back on excuses. Don’t play cheap motte-and-bailey games. And don’t pretend that you’re okay with the Second Amendment in theory, but you’re just appalled by the Heller decision. You’re not. Heller recognized what was obvious to the amendment’s drafters, to the people who debated it, and to the jurists of their era and beyond: That “right of the people” means “right of the people,” as it does everywhere else in both the Bill of Rights and in the common law that preceded it.

A Second Amendment without the supposedly pernicious Heller “interpretation” wouldn’t be any impediment to regulation at all. It would be a dead letter. It would be an effective repeal. It would be the end of the right itself. In other words, it would be exactly what you want! Man up. Put together a plan, and take those words out of the Constitution. It’ll be tough explaining to suburban families that their established conception of American liberty is wrong.

You might even suffer at the polls because of it. But that’s what it’s going to take. This will involve hard work, of course. You can’t just sit online and preen to those who already agree with you. No siree. Instead, you’ll have to go around the states — traveling and preaching until the soles of your shoes are thin as paper. You’ll have to lobby Congress, over and over and over again. You’ll have to make ads and shake hands and twist arms and cut deals and suffer all the slings and arrows that will be thrown in your direction. You’ll have to tell anybody who will listen to you that they need to support you; that if they disagree, they’re childish and beholden to the “gun lobby”; that they don’t care enough about children; that their reverence for the Founders is mistaken; that they have blood on their goddamn hands; that they want to own firearms only because their penises are small and they’re not “real men.”

And remember, you can’t half-ass it this time. You’re not going out there to tell these people that you want “reform” or that “enough is enough.” You’re going there to solicit their support for removing one of the articles within the Bill of Rights. Make no mistake: It’ll be unpleasant strolling into Pittsburgh or Youngstown or Pueblo and telling blue-collar Democrat after blue-collar Democrat that he only has his guns because he’s not as well endowed as he’d like to be. It’ll be tough explaining to suburban families that their established conception of American liberty is wrong.


You might even suffer at the polls because of it. But that’s what it’s going to take. So do it. Start now. Off you go. And don’t stop there. No, no. There’ll still be a lot of work to be done. As anybody with a passing understanding of America’s constitutional system knows, repealing the Second Amendment won’t in and of itself lead to the end of gun ownership in America. Rather, it will merely free up the federal government to regulate the area, should it wish to do so. Next, you’ll need to craft the laws that bring about change — think of them as modern Volstead Acts — and you’ll need to get them past the opposition.

And, if the federal government doesn’t immediately go the whole hog, you’ll need to replicate your efforts in the states, too, 45 of which have their own constitutional protections. Maybe New Jersey and California will go quietly. Maybe. But Idaho won’t. Louisiana won’t. Kentucky won’t. Maine won’t. You’ll need to persuade those sovereignties not to sue and drag their heels, but to do what’s right as defined by you. Unfortunately, that won’t involve vague talk of holding “national conversations” and “doing something” and “fighting back against the NRA.” It’ll mean going to all sorts of groups — unions, churches, PTAs, political meetings, bowling leagues — and telling them not that you want “common-sense reforms,” but that you want their guns, as in Australia or Britain or Japan.

Obviously, the Republicans aren’t going to help in this, so you’ll need to commandeer the Democratic party to do it. That means you’ll need their presidential candidates on board. That means you’ll need to make full abolition the stated policy of the Senate and House caucuses. That means you’ll need the state parties to sign pledges promising not to back away if it gets tough. And if they won’t, you’ll need to start a third party and accept all that that entails.

And when you’ve done all that and your vision is inked onto parchment, you’ll need to enforce it. No, not in the namby-pamby, eh-we-don’t-really-want-to-fund-it way that Prohibition was enforced. I mean enforce it — with force. When Australia took its decision to Do Something, the Australian citizenry owned between 2 and 3 million guns. Despite the compliance of the people and the lack of an entrenched gun culture, the government got maybe three-quarters of a million of them — somewhere between a fifth and a third of the total. That wouldn’t be good enough here, of course. There are around 350 million privately owned guns in America, which means that if you picked up one in three, you’d only be returning the stock to where it was in 1994. Does that sound difficult? Sure! After all, this is a country of 330 million people spread out across 3.8 million square miles, and if we know one thing about the American people, it’s that they do not go quietly into the night. But the government has to have their guns. It has to. The Second Amendment has to go.

You’re going to need a plan. A state-by-state, county-by-county, street-by-street, door-to door plan. A detailed roadmap to abolition that involves the military and the police and a whole host of informants — and, probably, a hell of a lot of blood, too. Sure, the ACLU won’t like it, especially when you start going around poorer neighborhoods. Sure, there are probably between 20 and 30 million Americans who would rather fight a civil war than let you into their houses. Sure, there is no historical precedent in America for the mass confiscation of a commonly owned item — let alone one that was until recently constitutionally protected. Sure, it’s slightly odd that you think that we can’t deport 11 million people but we can search 123 million homes. But that’s just the price we have to pay. Times have changed. It has to be done: For the children; for America; for the future. Hey hey, ho ho, the Second Amendment has to go. Let’s do this thing. When do you get started?

Charles C. W. Cooke is a staff writer at National Review.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/423183/rant-second-amendment-repeal?target=author&tid=23105

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/423183/rant-second-amendment-repeal?target=author&tid=23105
 
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Why would it have to catch up? If guns deterred crime, you should see a pretty immediate drop. Obviously not a huge one until there are enough guns out there. But still a drop nonetheless.

But we clearly don't see this. For 18 years there is no correlation. Gun rates steadily climb, but crime rates fluctuate at rates that have nothing to do with the number of guns. It's as though the two are completely unrelated.

How does this square?
You didn't see as much of a drop until States allowed concealed carry. It was pretty hard for people to defend themselves when they weren't allowed to have their guns. You've done a pretty good job pointing out this fact.
 
You didn't see as much of a drop until States allowed concealed carry. It was pretty hard for people to defend themselves when they weren't allowed to have their guns. You've done a pretty good job pointing out this fact.
This doesn't make much sense. Most states had restrictive concealed carry laws in the mid 1990s. But crime rates started dropping in 1991, several years before conceal carry laws began to loosen. Why the delayed effect?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States
 
This doesn't make much sense. Most states had restrictive concealed carry laws in the mid 1990s. But crime rates started dropping in 1991, several years before conceal carry laws began to loosen. Why the delayed effect?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States

This somewhat goes against your whole post -

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...meme-says-gun-homicides-are-down-49-percent-/

It lays claim to the following as the reason for the decline:

Why is this important? Because the decline, to a large degree, has to do with a specific reason -- the end of the crack epidemic.

The decline in gun homicides in the 1990s "was largely a reversal of an upward trend that occurred in the mid-to-late 1980s," said James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University. "There would not have been much of a downturn were it not for the surge. This up-and-down change was primarily in cities and among offenders under age 25, and indeed have much to do with crack markets and gang activity."
 
This somewhat goes against your whole post -

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...meme-says-gun-homicides-are-down-49-percent-/

It lays claim to the following as the reason for the decline:

Why is this important? Because the decline, to a large degree, has to do with a specific reason -- the end of the crack epidemic.

The decline in gun homicides in the 1990s "was largely a reversal of an upward trend that occurred in the mid-to-late 1980s," said James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University. "There would not have been much of a downturn were it not for the surge. This up-and-down change was primarily in cities and among offenders under age 25, and indeed have much to do with crack markets and gang activity."
I find it interesting that you just agreed that more guns had little to do with the drop in crime rates.
 
And your article specifically mentions that a drop in demand for crack was a big reason for its decline. Where do you think that loss in demand came from? Could it perhaps be all the unwanted children who were not born who would have been old enough to start using in the early 1990s?
 
I find it interesting that you just agreed that more guns had little to do with the drop in crime rates.

Since the decline of what is outlined in the articles - IMHO concealed carry\legal gun (shotgun, etc) ownership has aided in the decline.

I find it interesting that you post an incorrect fact and run with it like it is fact?
 
Since the decline of what is outlined in the articles - IMHO concealed carry\legal gun (shotgun, etc) ownership has aided in the decline.

I find it interesting that you post an incorrect fact and run with it like it is fact?
How has defensive use of guns caused a drop in the demand for crack?
 
These concealed carries aren't going into bad neighborhoods and rounding up drug users. They simply have concealed carry to protect themselves while they go about their daily lives of not going into bad neighborhoods to round up drug users. So how does this cause a drop in crack use? Are we to believe that hundreds of conceal carries are entering these drug neighborhoods, calling out that they are armed, and causing the drug users to decide to clean up their act? That seems like quite the stretch for causation.
 
I find it interesting that you just agreed that more guns had little to do with the drop in crime rates.
Huey...obviously the problem of violent crime is multi-faceted, but if you are making the point that the number of guns has little if anything to do with the violent crime rate...then what would be the point of gun control to combat violent crime?
 
These concealed carries aren't going into bad neighborhoods and rounding up drug users. They simply have concealed carry to protect themselves while they go about their daily lives of not going into bad neighborhoods to round up drug users. So how does this cause a drop in crack use? Are we to believe that hundreds of conceal carries are entering these drug neighborhoods, calling out that they are armed, and causing the drug users to decide to clean up their act? That seems like quite the stretch for causation.
Why do you imply that law abiding citizens don't live in "bad areas"? Those that do want to protect themselves as well.
 
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