Guns are the key to our freedom.....

[HawktimusPrime]

I was looking at Cigarettemans thread about the Iowa draft card burning ceremony. Todays world would never allow for a draft of any kind. We are an entirely different generation of people today. We aren't blind followers like we were then. Even then, there was mischief and rebellion all over the nation.

Could you peeps imagine what would happen if the Government tried to draft us into a war with North Korea? Iran? In todays times?!1 The public awareness of how things really run is just too well known at this time. We know these wars are mostly bogus and have more to do with the spread of our empire rather than the preservation of our freedom.

The mentality of Americans is quick to react, and quite frankly it would get ugly as hell very quickly. The gun ownership would most definitely be a key in all of this. It would be the one thing that would make politicians think twice before EVER trying to do something as reckless as they did during Vietnam again.

The military and the police themselves, our family, friends and neighbors, already embatttled, would likely not be interested, nor up to the task of dealing with the chaos. Are they better armed, sure, but what good is that, if you are trying to convince them to attack their own people? I sure as hell wouldn't. Not on the word of a bunch of corrupt politicians and war mongering shadow players. And when the protectors turned their back on the politicians and their corporate cronies, whom do you think would be in danger? Maybe those same politicians and corporate cronies who no longer enjoy the protection they once had?

The gun problems are real in this country. But so is our very corrupt Government. So for those asking for guns to be taken away, just make sure you understand what you're asking for.

 

[joelbc1]

I was looking at Cigarettemans thread about the Iowa draft card burning ceremony. Todays world would never allow for a draft of any kind. We are an entirely different generation of people today. We aren't blind followers like we were then. Even then, there was mischief and rebellion all over the nation.

Could you peeps imagine what would happen if the Government tried to draft us into a war with North Korea? Iran? In todays times?!1 The public awareness of how things really run is just too well known at this time. We know these wars are mostly bogus and have more to do with the spread of our empire rather than the preservation of our freedom.

The mentality of Americans is quick to react, and quite frankly it would get ugly as hell very quickly. The gun ownership would most definitely be a key in all of this. It would be the one thing that would make politicians think twice before EVER trying to do something as reckless as they did during Vietnam again.

The military and the police themselves, our family, friends and neighbors, already embatttled, would likely not be interested, nor up to the task of dealing with the chaos. Are they better armed, sure, but what good is that, if you are trying to convince them to attack their own people? I sure as hell wouldn't. Not on the word of a bunch of corrupt politicians and war mongering shadow players. And when the protectors turned their back on the politicians and their corporate cronies, whom do you think would be in danger? Maybe those same politicians and corporate cronies who no longer enjoy the protection they once had?

The gun problems are real in this country. But so is our very corrupt Government. So for those asking for guns to be taken away, just make sure you understand what you're asking for.

Bullcrap, HP. Pure, unadulterated bullcrap! There are many areas in this world that MANDATE military service. In fact the US would be better off if they mandated military/peace corp service. The draft was crap because minorities and poors were the main source of the pool.
Equating "gun ownership" with military service to the nation shows just what a crack pot you are. The two have NOTHING to do with eachother...unless you are a simpleton.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

Bullcrap, HP. Pure, unadulterated bullcrap! There are many areas in this world that MANDATE military service. In fact the US would be better off if they mandated military/peace corp service. The draft was crap because minorities and poors were the main source of the pool.
Equating "gun ownership" with military service to the nation shows just what a crack pot you are. The two have NOTHING to do with eachother...unless you are a simpleton.

Joel, you're not the most courageous person in the world, so I'm not surprised you don't understand. Plus, you're probably already drunk and grumpy. Anyways, you're one to always spout off about the gun violence and how we have too many guns and etc, etc. So you think that in todays culture and with all the guns in the country, that we would suddenly allow another draft to take place? Do you really think they wouldn't once again try to target the minorities and poors?
Also, the draft was only crap because it targeted poors and minorities? Not completely true by the way.....but that is the only reason it was crap? Typical PC BS from you. The POINT was that a draft in todays culture, largely due to the ability to say no, with force, is one of the reasons why we haven't seen a draft in todays culture, nor will we.
You also advocate for mandated military service? Of course you do. It sounds good on paper, but when you really start to understand what that would mean, you have to understand that mandated service is walking us straight into Facism. Of course you like that kind of thing.

 

[joelbc1]

Joel, you're not the most courageous person in the world, so I'm not surprised you don't understand. Plus, you're probably already drunk and grumpy. Anyways, you're one to always spout off about the gun violence and how we have too many guns and etc, etc. So you think that in todays culture and with all the guns in the country, that we would suddenly allow another draft to take place? Do you really think they wouldn't once again try to target the minorities and poors?
Also, the draft was only crap because it targeted poors and minorities? Not completely true by the way.....but that is the only reason it was crap? Typical PC BS from you. The POINT was that a draft in todays culture, largely due to the ability to say no, with force, is one of the reasons why we haven't seen a draft in todays culture, nor will we.
You also advocate for mandated military service? Of course you do. It sounds good on paper, but when you really start to understand what that would mean, you have to understand that mandated service is walking us straight into Facism. Of course you like that kind of thing.

Wow! Hard to reason with thinking like this. An act of Congress would turn your argument upside down in a heart beat. If you want "fairness" here...mandatory service is the only "fair" way to do it. You are aligning private gun ownership to the power of sharia law. You really want to go there, HP? The US is a country of LAWS. It is not a country based on the strength of private gun ownership.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Bullcrap, HP. Pure, unadulterated bullcrap! There are many areas in this world that MANDATE military service. In fact the US would be better off if they mandated military/peace corp service. The draft was crap because minorities and poors were the main source of the pool.
Equating "gun ownership" with military service to the nation shows just what a crack pot you are. The two have NOTHING to do with eachother...unless you are a simpleton.

You seriously want to force people to their deaths?

 

[HawktimusPrime]

Wow! Hard to reason with thinking like this. An act of Congress would turn your argument upside down in a heart beat. If you want "fairness" here...mandatory service is the only "fair" way to do it. You are aligning private gun ownership to the power of sharia law. You really want to go there, HP? The US is a country of LAWS. It is not a country based on the strength of private gun ownership.

No, fairness, is no having a draft at all. Why is that so hard to understand? Do you wish to live in North Korea? Do you only care because you are told to? You seem to have little humanity to you. You're probably loaded, so I'll wait to have this convo, when Jack is speaking for you.
Our ability to fight for our own freedoms is the very definition of a free people Joel

 

[joelbc1]

You seriously want to force people to their deaths?

Force who to die where? Where'd that come into this conversation. Some nincompoop here feels that "private gun ownership" in America is what keeps this nation from having a draft. I know better.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

You seriously want to force people to their deaths?

He thinks that by rising up to tell the elites to ##c$ off and that we won't go kill and wage war just because they said so is some bad thing. Joel gets grumpy past noon.

My whole point, is that in todays climate, trying to push for a draft wouldn't go well at all. We are too aware of the lies, such as Vietnam and Iraq, and we are just too angry at government right now, to let them force us to go and wage war.

Ergo, why I believe they are as afraid as they ever have been of gun ownership Hillary herself said that a need to talk about a full ban is on the table.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

Force who to die where? Where'd that come into this conversation. Some nincompoop here feels that "private gun ownership" in America is what keeps this nation from having a draft. I know better.

Is sending someone into a war not forcing them to either die, or kill?

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Force who to die where? Where'd that come into this conversation. Some nincompoop here feels that "private gun ownership" in America is what keeps this nation from having a draft. I know better.

If you're forcing people to sign up for the armed forces, and some of those people died, then you're forcing those people to their deaths. They aren't there of their own volition. They are there because you made them be there. That's about as ****ed up as anything I've ever read on a message board.

 

[joelbc1]

He thinks that by rising up to tell the elites to ##c$ off and that we won't go kill and wage war just because they said so is some bad thing. Joel gets grumpy past noon.

My whole point, is that in todays climate, trying to push for a draft wouldn't go well at all. We are too aware of the lies, such as Vietnam and Iraq, and we are just too angry at government right now, to let them force us to go and wage war.

Ergo, why I believe they are as afraid as they ever have been of gun ownership Hillary herself said that a need to talk about a full ban is on the table.

Who said anything about reinstitution of the draft being a good idea......Some one here said that "private gun ownership" was what keeps us away from having it. That is BS. As opposed to a "draft" what I believe would be fair is mandatory military service. Mandatory would be much more fair.

 

[joelbc1]

If you're forcing people to sign up for the armed forces, and some of those people died, then you're forcing those people to their deaths. They aren't there of their own volition. They are there because you made them be there. That's about as ****ed up as anything I've ever read on a message board.

South KOrea has "mandatory military service." Isreal does too. No one is "forced"...it is a national expectation. It is much more fair than a "draft" or lottery.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

South KOrea has "mandatory military service." Isreal does too. No one is "forced"...it is a national expectation. It is much more fair than a "draft" or lottery.

How is choosing to do something considered "forced?" I see that you're already backing off that statement too, although we all know how you truly feel now.

 

[MemorialRedWarrior]

Who said anything about reinstitution of the draft being a good idea......Some one here said that "private gun ownership" was what keeps us away from having it. That is BS. As opposed to a "draft" what I believe would be fair is mandatory military service. Mandatory would be much more fair.

So you are against a draft which is good, but you are for a mandatory time of service for the sake of fairness? That in effect could put American youths into harms way, despite them not wanting to be there. In effect, that would put firearms in their hands and put them in the line of fire against whomever we consider to be an enemy at the time. That is a very dangerous scenario once all the repercussions take hold in situations like that.
I do believe having a well armed populace is a good thing. Do we have issues with our firearms? Sure we do, but I think that is more of an issue with our mental stability, particularly with our youth. A draft is not likely to be seen in our country anytime soon.

 

[joelbc1]

How is choosing to do something considered "forced?" I see that you're already backing off that statement too, although we all know how you truly feel now.

in regards to what?
and what pray tell, do you think I said.
All I have said is that to be "fair" mandatory" service is better than a draft.....choosing to do something?? You can still "choose" to serve, that has always been an option. My main point here was the moron who said that the reason there is no draft any more is because of "private gun ownership." That is pure poppycock.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

South KOrea has "mandatory military service." Isreal does too. No one is "forced"...it is a national expectation. It is much more fair than a "draft" or lottery.

Sounds like commie BS Joel. Why call it mandatory, if it is not in fact forced by the way? So it's okay to shoot up other countries and be shot there, but here in the US, you and your ilk don't want common Americans to have guns?

What sort of Twilight Zone madness are you coming from Joel?

 

[NoleSoup4U]

No, you said mandatory service is a good idea, not that it was better than a draft. It's right there in your post.

 

[joelbc1]

So you are against a draft which is good, but you are for a mandatory time of service for the sake of fairness? That in effect could put American youths into harms way, despite them not wanting to be there. In effect, that would put firearms in their hands and put them in the line of fire against whomever we consider to be an enemy at the time. That is a very dangerous scenario once all the repercussions take hold in situations like that.
I do believe having a well armed populace is a good thing. Do we have issues with our firearms? Sure we do, but I think that is more of an issue with our mental stability, particularly with our youth. A draft is not likely to be seen in our country anytime soon.

Neither.......reread, PLEASE.!
Again...someone here stated the reason we have no "draft" is because of "private gun ownership" which just isn't true. My opposition to the draft was because it was NOT fair. A "mandatory" service obligation would be much more fair than a draft or a lottery.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

in regards to what?
and what pray tell, do you think I said.
All I have said is that to be "fair" mandatory" service is better than a draft.....choosing to do something?? You can still "choose" to serve, that has always been an option. My main point here was the moron who said that the reason there is no draft any more is because of "private gun ownership." That is pure poppycock.

Nothing wrong with a little poppycock, just ask Natural.

 

[joelbc1]

No, you said mandatory service is a good idea, not that it was better than a draft. It's right there in your post.

reread. reread all previous posts........I would favor a "mandatory" service requirement as opposed to a re-institution of the draft or the lottery. "Mandatory" would be much more fair.
It has nothing to do with "private gun ownership" in this nation.

 

[MemorialRedWarrior]

Neither.......reread, PLEASE.!
Again...someone here stated the reason we have no "draft" is because of "private gun ownership" which just isn't true. My opposition to the draft was because it was NOT fair. A "mandatory" service obligation would be much more fair than a draft or a lottery.

I see, but I would want no part in trying to institute a draft today if I was a politician. Gun ownership most definitely would be one of the main reasons why. It's a bit of a dramatic point, but it holds water.
It is said that maybe 20% would ever support another draft. The opposition to that is a much greater number, and in todays social and political climate, I wouldn't even cater to a serious talk of the idea.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

reread. reread all previous posts........I would favor a "mandatory" service requirement as opposed to a re-institution of the draft or the lottery. "Mandatory" would be much more fair.
It has nothing to do with "private gun ownership" in this nation.

Are you saying that you misspoke? I only ask because the words, "There are many areas in this world that MANDATE military service. In fact the US would be better off if they mandated military/peace corp service" are pretty self-explanatory. If you were trying to say that mandatory service is better than a draft, wouldn't it be helpful to have it in that post?

 

[MemorialRedWarrior]

reread. reread all previous posts........I would favor a "mandatory" service requirement as opposed to a re-institution of the draft or the lottery. "Mandatory" would be much more fair.
It has nothing to do with "private gun ownership" in this nation.

What you are proposing is a much more unrealistic and possibly even more polarizing option. Staying 'fair' as you say, is more or less just making everyone a toy soldier for our government to play with. I get that it levels the playing field in this regard, but it surely would have opposition from all classes in this case. It does depend on the type of service you are speaking of though.
Are we speaking strictly military, community, or a choice of participation here?
2 years, 4 years, combat, support, INCONUS, OCONUS? Would you push for at least a choice of which branch?

 

[22*43*51]

No, you said mandatory service is a good idea, not that it was better than a draft. It's right there in your post.

Yes. He said forcing everyone to do something is better than forcing some random people to do something.

It makes sense in Joel's world.

 

[naturalmwa]

Blah,blah,blah blahblahblah,blah blah ,blah.

 

[joelbc1]

I see, but I would want no part in trying to institute a draft today if I was a politician. Gun ownership most definitely would be one of the main reasons why. It's a bit of a dramatic point, but it holds water.
It is said that maybe 20% would ever support another draft. The opposition to that is a much greater number, and in todays social and political climate, I wouldn't even cater to a serious talk of the idea.

Because you. like most politicians are gutless and do not stand for anything of substance?

 

[joelbc1]

Are you saying that you misspoke? I only ask because the words, "There are many areas in this world that MANDATE military service. In fact the US would be better off if they mandated military/peace corp service" are pretty self-explanatory. If you were trying to say that mandatory service is better than a draft, wouldn't it be helpful to have it in that post?

It is not germaine to the discussion because we in America have no draft any more. Not so much when I was of military age. There are many countries today that do mandate military service. I find nothing wrong with that. The USA has chosen to go another route. Still, mandatory service is much more fair to all concerned than a draft or lottery. One would know that at x number of years old, they would be in the military. I think my "mandated military/peace corp" words were in a circumstance where military needs required.
STILL...the point of my argument is the fact we do not have a draft or lottery any more has NOTHING to do with private ownership of fire arms.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

I don't own guns to defend my family or property from intruders or crazy neighbors. I do it to protect myself from my government or its agents, or those representing another government. I have faith in this country and I don't think that I will ever have use it, but you never know. I'm glad that I have that right. I'm also glad that I would able to defend our country while standing alongside my neighbors if from some reason our government wasn't in a position to do so.

 

[joelbc1]

What you are proposing is a much more unrealistic and possibly even more polarizing option. Staying 'fair' as you say, is more or less just making everyone a toy soldier for our government to play with. I get that it levels the playing field in this regard, but it surely would have opposition from all classes in this case. It does depend on the type of service you are speaking of though.
Are we speaking strictly military, community, or a choice of participation here?
2 years, 4 years, combat, support, INCONUS, OCONUS? Would you push for at least a choice of which branch?

Again..if push comes to shove and military personnel is needed, I believe mandatory service is a much more fair tool to use than any type of draft or lottery. Shit yes it would polarize. However, it is the most fair way of raising troop for the military.
This thing all revolves round the moron who stated we don't have a draft because "we the people" own guns. THat is just flat-out brain fart thinking.

 

[MemorialRedWarrior]

Again..if push comes to shove and military personnel is needed, I believe mandatory service is a much more fair tool to use than any type of draft or lottery. Shit yes it would polarize. However, it is the most fair way of raising troop for the military.
This thing all revolves round the moron who stated we don't have a draft because "we the people" own guns. THat is just flat-out brain fart thinking.

How do you involve the 100's of millions that would qualify? Realistically.

 

[cruhawk]

I was looking at Cigarettemans thread about the Iowa draft card burning ceremony. Todays world would never allow for a draft of any kind. We are an entirely different generation of people today. We aren't blind followers like we were then. Even then, there was mischief and rebellion all over the nation.

Could you peeps imagine what would happen if the Government tried to draft us into a war with North Korea? Iran? In todays times?!1 The public awareness of how things really run is just too well known at this time. We know these wars are mostly bogus and have more to do with the spread of our empire rather than the preservation of our freedom.

The mentality of Americans is quick to react, and quite frankly it would get ugly as hell very quickly. The gun ownership would most definitely be a key in all of this. It would be the one thing that would make politicians think twice before EVER trying to do something as reckless as they did during Vietnam again.

The military and the police themselves, our family, friends and neighbors, already embatttled, would likely not be interested, nor up to the task of dealing with the chaos. Are they better armed, sure, but what good is that, if you are trying to convince them to attack their own people? I sure as hell wouldn't. Not on the word of a bunch of corrupt politicians and war mongering shadow players. And when the protectors turned their back on the politicians and their corporate cronies, whom do you think would be in danger? Maybe those same politicians and corporate cronies who no longer enjoy the protection they once had?

The gun problems are real in this country. But so is our very corrupt Government. So for those asking for guns to be taken away, just make sure you understand what you're asking for.

Disagree with just about everything you said here---mostly because common sense & the facts don't support you. But it's the Constitution that's key to our freedom. The second amendment is simply a (steel-belted) part of that.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

Disagree with just about everything you said here---mostly because common sense & the facts don't support you. But it's the Constitution that's key to our freedom. The second amendment is simply a (steel-belted) part of that.

No, we are the key to our freedom. Either we keep the freedom or we let it slide away. We are doing the latter.

 

[cruhawk]

No, we are the key to our freedom. Either we keep the freedom or we let it slide away. We are doing the latter.

Well, yes, if we choose not to honor the Constitution (like what's happening today), then we have no one but ourselves to blame.

 

[Hawk in SEC Country]

Force who to die where? Where'd that come into this conversation. Some nincompoop here feels that "private gun ownership" in America is what keeps this nation from having a draft. I know better.

mandated military service is about the worst thing you could ever do to our military. An army full of people who don't want to be there does NOTHING for the strength of our country.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

mandated military service is about the worst thing you could ever do to our military. An army full of people who don't want to be there does NOTHING for the strength of our country.

Not to mention, that with the amount of people in this country, how exactly do we for one pay for that, make sure that everyone actually gets in, and where exactly do you fit them in at?

Joel has forgot, that Americans are still being made to either sign up for service or at the very least, sign up for the draft still. The possibility of a draft isn't completely off the table, but I wouldn't recommend it for the politicians. The American people would definitely have something to say about it.

 

[joelbc1]

No, we are the key to our freedom. Either we keep the freedom or we let it slide away. We are doing the latter.

Yes....like the Supreme Court recognizing "corporations" and giving them the rights The Constitution gave to our citizens. The erosion of rights, especially in the past 30 years, have been the result of rising corporatism, not so much the diminishing of personal rights.