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Yes.Is spencer 3 behind Cael and Dake
Would he fall to 4 if Starocci wins 5
The 3 Hodge Trophies to 0 would be a good indicator. And Spencer doesn’t have 6 lossesHow would a 5 timer with 2 losses be behind a 4 timer with 6 losses??
Because that's not the only determining factor.How would a 5 timer with 2 losses be behind a 4 timer with 6 losses??
If you knew anything about wrestling and what you were watching, you wouldn't have to ask this question lol.How would a 5 timer with 2 losses be behind a 4 timer with 6 losses??
he lost next!!Gable > everyone
Gable > your favorite team's wrestlershe lost next!!
No one should be allowed to go for 5.Is spencer 3 behind Cael and Dake
Would he fall to 4 if Starocci wins 5
My only thing with ranking Dake is the lack of bonus points. There have been four 4x champs and in all-time NCAA tournament points, there are 1 (Cael), 2 (Steiber), 6 (Smith) and 12 (Dake).Dake is 1. True Freshman going up in weight each year and winning a National Title each year. Probably will never see it again
Dake is 1 and its not even closeMy only thing with ranking Dake is the lack of bonus points. There have been four 4x champs and in all-time NCAA tournament points, there are 1 (Cael), 2 (Steiber), 6 (Smith) and 12 (Dake).
For those wondering, Lee should end up 2nd on that list.
That said, moving up three weight classes and beating Taylor? Wowza.
If Spencer wins 4, why does Spencer automatically fall behind Kyle Dake? Just based on the number of losses? Or because Dake won in 4 different weight classes? I mean I really like Dake and was very VERY impressed when he went up to 165 and beat DT that year (what a match). I know Lee's had some losses, but like Dake, he won when it mattered. And if Dake was wrestling in the B10 vice the EIWA - and wrestled Okie State every year - perhaps his loss count would be a tad higher? I'm not saying Dake isn't all that and then some; I'm just saying that if SL wins it all this year, I think he's every bit as good of a college wrestler as anyone not called Cael.
Not disagreeing, but why do people think going up weight classes automatically makes a title more significant? Every year is a bit of a crap shoot in terms of whether that weight class is particularly tough. Going up...or down...does not guarantee a harder path. And is there a difference if a guy goes from 125 to 149 vs going from 165 to 197? Or is this point just specific to Dake and who he had to wrestle by going up those years?Dake is 1. True Freshman going up in weight each year and winning a National Title each year. Probably will never see it again
The 4 guys that Dake beat in the finals had 15 AAs among them. They made the finals a combined 10 times and won 4 combined titles. 3 of the guys Dake beat went on to win titles at the same weight the next year.Not disagreeing, but why do people think going up weight classes automatically makes a title more significant? Every year is a bit of a crap shoot in terms of whether that weight class is particularly tough. Going up...or down...does not guarantee a harder path. And is there a difference if a guy goes from 125 to 149 vs going from 165 to 197? Or is this point just specific to Dake and who he had to wrestle by going up those years?
Good point! Kyle Snyder won it, as did John Smith, and a couple Olympians. Could be a good tie-breaker.I may be mistaken and I'm sure I'll get blasted if I am... This should account for something in the all-time rankings.. But don't forget Spencer won the Sullivan award. He is only one of 5 wrestlers to ever win it. A feat not even Dan Gable, Cael Sanderson or the great Dan Hodge ever accomplished..
Homer. 5 losses compared to zero. Easy competition for last two titles. There is no world in which Spencer is ahead of Cael. Not even on this forum.I would say Dake, Spencer and Carl would be my top 3. But Spencer is without a doubt the most exciting to watch.
Not disagreeing, but in his freshman year alone the guys Spencer would beat in the semis and finals who have 3 NCAA championships and 4 NCAA finals between them (Suriano, Nato). If not for going up to 165 to beat DT, the argument for Dake is significantly less strong and takes away four of those NCAA finals and 2 of those NCAA championships. Again, not downplaying Dake (he's a badass and REALLY impressed me when he went to 165 and took out DT), but if Spencer wins this year there's definitely a good argument of his college career being every bit as impressive as Dake's. And if he captures his third Hodge Trophy along the way that clearly adds to the discussion. Regardless, it's nice that we have an Iowa alum in the conversation.The 4 guys that Dake beat in the finals had 15 AAs among them. They made the finals a combined 10 times and won 4 combined titles. 3 of the guys Dake beat went on to win titles at the same weight the next year.
I don't think it's necessarily impressive to go up a weight class each year, but in Dake's case, looking at who he had to beat each year, I think it is
Hard to disagree with that. Cael is definitely in a class of his own. During his college career there were no chinks in that armor.Homer. 5 losses compared to zero. Easy competition for last two titles. There is no world in which Spencer is ahead of Cael. Not even on this forum.
Agreed, going up in weight classes means little. Winning as a true freshman, and beating Taylor multiple times do give him an argument for the top spot.Not disagreeing, but why do people think going up weight classes automatically makes a title more significant? Every year is a bit of a crap shoot in terms of whether that weight class is particularly tough. Going up...or down...does not guarantee a harder path. And is there a difference if a guy goes from 125 to 149 vs going from 165 to 197? Or is this point just specific to Dake and who he had to wrestle by going up those years?
Because that's not the only determining factor.
If Yianni, Spencer, and Carter all win out, presmuing minor leaps for Carter but not a major leap in dominance, I would rank them:
1. Cael
2. Dake
3. Spencer
4. Pat Smith
5. Starocci
6. Yianni
7. Logan Stieber
Still a lot of work left to do to get to this place, though
I'm curious - but aren't you leaving a certain someone off of this list? Dan Gable perhaps?Because that's not the only determining factor.
If Yianni, Spencer, and Carter all win out, presmuing minor leaps for Carter but not a major leap in dominance, I would rank them:
1. Cael
2. Dake
3. Spencer
4. Pat Smith
5. Starocci
6. Yianni
7. Logan Stieber
Still a lot of work left to do to get to this place, though.
I get the losses position you have but easy competition? Courtney with 0 ACLs and Mueller who just majored Sebastian Rivera in the Semis.Homer. 5 losses compared to zero. Easy competition for last two titles. There is no world in which Spencer is ahead of Cael. Not even on this forum.
I was ranking the 4 timers. I don't think I'm equipped to place Gable in a ranking, because all I know are the results, I have only seen a couple of his collegiate matches.I'm curious - but aren't you leaving a certain someone off of this list? Dan Gable perhaps?
Fair enough - but the rules (Freshman not allowed to compete) were different for him, just like being a possible 5 timer for Starocci.I was ranking the 4 timers. I don't think I'm equipped to place Gable in a ranking, because all I know are the results, I have only seen a couple of his collegiate matches.
And two of them became olympians. One a champ, the other lost in the bronze medal match.The 4 guys that Dake beat in the finals had 15 AAs among them. They made the finals a combined 10 times and won 4 combined titles. 3 of the guys Dake beat went on to win titles at the same weight the next year.
I don't think it's necessarily impressive to go up a weight class each year, but in Dake's case, looking at who he had to beat each year, I think it is
Until Suriano makes an Olympic team, no.Beating Suriano in the finals is as big of an accomplishment as any of the men Cael, Dake, Stieber beat, no?
Not every great folkstyle wrestlers is on Olympic teams. Pat Smith and Logan Striebler are the first that come to mind.Until Suriano makes an Olympic team, no.
No. Dake beating Taylor (the returning Hodge Trophy winner) is much bigger. Taylor won the Hodge the year before losing to Dake, and won it again the next year. Taylor was 134-3, with two of those losses to Dake.I get the losses position you have but easy competition? Courtney with 0 ACLs and Mueller who just majored Sebastian Rivera in the Semis.
Beating Suriano in the finals is as big of an accomplishment as any of the men Cael, Dake, Stieber beat, no?
Beating Taylor seems to be given a lot more credence than anything else. In that case, Bubba Jenkins is now in my top 5 because he PINNED Taylor.No. Dake beating Taylor (the returning Hodge Trophy winner) is much bigger. Taylor won the Hodge the year before losing to Dake, and won it again the next year. Taylor was 134-3, with two of those losses to Dake.