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HROT Cathedral of Learning

Eternal Return

HR Heisman
Oct 15, 2009
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I mentioned this in a different thread through a tete a tete with jasonrann, a good discovery, and thought to give it a spin. There are some things I decided I wanted to say so I'm saying them. My hope is that this will be a thread where people contribute the best of themselves, the best they have to offer, as part of a collaboration of what we can accomplish together in spite of our differences, of offering something that is good for everyone as a true "commons" is supposed to contribute to the betterment of a community.

If this was an actual community in the real world, though, how many of you would buy "property" in here. In a sense, those who have purchased a membership of some sort have bought property here. They're renting access to privileged information. What most people would expect from me next is probably a Marxist critique. I'm going to demonstrate how Hegelian thought can be used instead of the crap that came from Marx. Give the guy a break, though, and recognize his position in the world and the condition of the geographic location where he lived in the 1800s. He was responding to a radical shift in industrialization happening at a speed in which such concentrations of population and technological advancement had never occurred and the ethical implications had not been thought through -- they didn't have the science, the biological knowledge we do now so they thought a hyper-individualism was good. We still do, if to a lesser extent. It's progress.

Having shown some respect to Marx, as he deserves more than he is given, I slap his ideas down a lot harder than the most fascist minds do. For entirely different reasons. His ideas don't create true community. "Collectivism" is not "communalism." Collectivism is soulless, faceless, bureaucragic (bureaucratic and tragic), impersonal, heartless, colder than cold. Capitalism looks like a form of virtue in comparison. Marxists and neo-Marxists everywhere are shocked!

Sorry to destroy Marxism, lay it to waste in three sentences, but that's what I do. I see the flaws in designs and I either destroy them or I deconstruct them and reassemble them in superior forms that produce better outcomes. [And before I forget, the point I was making about premium members, is that this sit provides a commons for those of us who can't afford or don't want to pay for various reasons -- for me, I don't have the time to read enough to make it worthwhile, but I respect what the site's owners and administrator's provide, a commons for us to congregate and communicate within. That it happens under the auspices of a love for the Hawks or the Seminoles (I've added FSU to my network of favorite teams. You're now my favorite ACC team because of how your online community participates here. You're good ambassadors for your school.) doesn't matter to me in the slightest. And I like there are a diversity of political opinions even if I'm bored by the bickering. No moral judgment, just boredom. Do what you will, no worries].

I used to only care about the Hawkeyes, but I've recognized the possibilities of alliances, a network of teams I like. The University of Iowa is where the beer that is not in heaven is drunk and, as such, it is the center of the football universe for me and shall always remain so. Go Hawks!

But when it comes to what I was writing about Hegelian-descendant thought, there are possibilities beyond Cartesianism when it comes to incorporating others into oneself as who and what is important to and for oneself.

My approach on beliefs is ecumenical. I recognize that all belief systems have something to offer that is beneficial to the world. I parse through the misery, the nonsense, the absurdity, the contradictions, the misdirection, the confused, the oxymoronic, and find the gems of wisdom. One of my favorite sayings is "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water."

On that level, here's an olive branch to the Q people. If I truly believed that there was a conspiracy in the form of an evil Satanic organization designed as a global pedophile ring run by top-level Democrats like Hillary Clinton and billionaires like George Soros, I'd be yelling louder than you and demanding some form of justice. But there's no concrete evidence of it. Yes, they COULD be part of a conspiracy, but why in the world would you believe that Republican billionaires aren't in on it, too? Did you notice Jeffrey Epstein had ties to Democrats, Republicans, billionaires, world-class scientists, royalty, etc.? I mean, so, yeah, there certainly may be pedophile rings funded, if not run, by such people. Doubtful that it would have any direct ties to elected politicians except in the way Matt Gaetz is connected to it. And, yeah, that is technically part of a conspiracy so I don't mind you're crazed clamoring. If it was more sophisticated, though, you'd be able to discern between the horseshit, red herrings, the credibility of the people delivering the information, the wild leaps of logic, and all else. From there, you could find real-world connections.

That the Q people are collectively failing so badly even with millions of followers and contributors, it's a testament to how low the awareness of people is, how poorly they aim their focus, and the amount of bullshit propaganda they swallow as truth. They bind themselves through forms of thought that pretty much cripple rationality. From those who can think rationally, they deserve sympathy, not as pathetic beings, but as equals who have potentials just as great as yours.

And to think, I'd come to this insight through jasonrann calling me a racist puke. lol! But I love him for that misinterpretation of me. It allows such a great opportunity to address the issue of racism properly. It is fear that drives racism and all forms of bigotry and prejudice. Because the foundations of psychiatry and psychology are so woefully broken, actual straightjackets put on people through diagnoses that are for professionals only rather than for the good of patients. And in their haste to name things and make associations between things, they've gotten so much wrong that they are doing nearly as much damage as the most literalist religious thought does to person's minds. Psychiatry and psychology are NOT sciences. They are not even quasi-sciences. They are pseudo-sciences. The intentions are good, the conclusions are bad. But they are making progress in neuroscience so we'll see what becomes. I'm not interested in the blame game. I'm ready to move beyond that so actual progress can be made.

The best justice that does the most good is institutional and systemic justice and in this sense I mean transformations of the institutions, what is called systemic change. Systemic change can mean innumerable things and the forms that have been presented thus far are pretty shitty. Progress, yes, but incremental. Again, I'm ready to leap forward and provide the necessary insights that are missing so we can productively move on to more important issues.

Racism is one of those issues and the view of "disorders" from within psychiatry/psychology is related in the sense that they do not understand that fear pulls the center of one's positional orientation to the other "inward." Fear has a "gravity" (I'll be using metaphor as it is a form of language most can easily understand in at least one of the ways I mean, though many others are present through careful readings); it pulls one within oneself in a way that can be interpreted as a retreat, but it fear is a survival/security driver. In fact, is the driver of all needs. Fear is our most important friend.

So if a person has fears that become so large within him, her, or they, that they can't hold themselves together any longer in a functional way or they take the form of hatred or other milder forms in intensity and scope over time. "Prejudice" (including the particularly violent internalized form identified as racism) is a fear that does not need to be punished; it needs to be addressed so the person with the prejudice-centered manifestation of fear can stop being ruled by it. Once it is established that one's fears are not based in actuality or even probability or plausibility then there is no reason to hold onto those fears.

That gets into issues of attachments and the differences between associations and attachments. But, unfortunately, I don't have time to share any more today or probably for a while. Very busy. But I like this space and thought I'd offer something of value and invite you to do the same for yourselves and one another. I give my blessing for those who feel that powerful urge to post boobs. It's ridiculous, but I don't like censorship and I love expressions of many kinds. And, if you want to take a TLDR shit or some other form of rolling around in your own feces, have at it! I believe what are considered "deviant" sexual behaviors are ways for people to express themselves in such a way that they can achieve a certain type of satisfaction only through the foulest measures. I'd rather that than a mass shooting any day. And, hey, pigs love rolling in shit so I say let people be who they are and display it to all they care to share it with. But, you know, some people look at that like you're taking a shit on the sidewalk in front of a family having a picnic. If that doesn't bother you, hey, do your thing! lol!

Anyway, enjoy, contribute or not, and have a great day.
 
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There are people here, and everywhere, who totally dismay me. In the end, most of us have the same goal, and that's peace and prosperity for their fellow person. Our differences come from how to best achieve that.

The main issue I see here is too many judgements are made without giving much thought to the topic, whether the subject is political, or just plain life. The best posters are those who entertain other opinions, even though they might disagree. The worst posters are those who are arrogant and narcissistic enough to think they are never wrong, or their opinion is fact.

I really enjoy HROT. This place gives me the opportunity to think about events and life in ways I would never consider on my own.

Two people will always disgust me though, and there's nothing any of you can do to change that. They are Donald J Trump, and Matt Gaetz. Unfortunately, I live in Gaetz's district. Also unfortunately, I feel compelled to try and be honest about each of them, which sometimes comes off as supporting them. I will never support them as men. I will always try to support the truth though. I support political positions as well.

My experience here has been interesting over the years. I get attacked by both sides of the political spectrum. I most often get labeled as GOP because I tend to be most vocal about out of control government spending and taxation. There's a lot less notice of my left leaning views about war, the war on drugs, and a whole variety of social issues.

In the end, I'm glad this forum is here, and for everyone's thoughts.

... Even Chis.
 
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There are people here, and everywhere, who totally dismay me. In the end, most of us have the same goal, and that's peace and prosperity for their fellow person. Our differences come from how to best achieve that.

The main issue I see here is too many judgements are made without giving much thought to the topic, whether the subject is political, or just plain life. The best posters are those who entertain other opinions, even though the might disagree. The worst posters are those who are arrogant and narcissistic enough to think they are never wrong, or their opinion is fact.

I really enjoy HROT. This place gives me the opportunity to think about events and life in ways I would never consider on my own.

Two people will always disgust me though, and there's nothing any of you can do to change that. They are Donald J Trump, and Matt Gaetz. Unfortunately, I live in Gaetz's district. Also unfortunately, I feel compelled to try and be honest about each of them, which sometimes comes off as supporting them. I will never support them as men. I will always try to support the truth though. I support political positions as well.

My experience here has been interesting over the years. I get attacked by both sides of the political spectrum. I most often get labeled as GOP because I tend to be most vocal about out of control government spending and taxation. There's a lot less notice of my left leaning views about war, the war on drugs, and a whole variety of social issues.

In the end, I'm glad this forum is here, and for everyone's thoughts.

... Even Chis.

That's amazing. So much I want to say, but I'm gathering within what might need to be said in relation to what you've said. I really want and need to let what you said stand on its own. It has a gravity to it that can sustain itself so I really have no need to respond.

The only "part of me" that feels a want AND a need to respond is that, through my interactions with you, you always came across as thoughtful. I'm realizing I never put you in the conservative or liberal boxes. You've presented yourself as far too complex as that. I suspect everyone is more complex than whatever it is they write here, but I have a higher-order respect for those that present themselves through a complexity of opinions, observations, and questions just because they've been serious enough to present themselves in those ways.

But I always know others may be similarly complex even if that is not what they share here. I don't know the time constraints of people, how they orient themselves within the world beyond what they present here, or much else in addition. I can't fathom the complexity of any one person on this site. And when I recognize that, I'm filled with awe in relation to who the other may actually be--and I don't mean what a person does for income or survival or security or belonging or anything else like that.

I mean the totality of a person's being, the whole of them that even they can't see within themselves through the manifestations of their thoughts, decisions, and actions. We are all more than what we do. In fact, what we do is among the tiniest "parts" of what we are. They are the only sources of external measurement of the other, true, but as it is with physics, do we really believe that the instruments physics use for detection of what is tells everything about what is and what might be (let alone what might become)?

In other words, I'm becoming ever more humble in relation to everyone else because ... the multitudes of possibilities each person represents. And so, I've really started to become more serious about what I say to each person because I realize that what I say can be construed as a manipulation, a trap, no matter my intentions. But I also know that every expression I make is an opportunity even if it is misinterpreted.

I admit that it pains me to read a message that essentially reads "TL;DR" in response to whatever I write. It pains me not for me because I don't need anything in return for whatever I share. What pains me is that others who actually may find the words I write truly meaningful and useful in their lives, because I am offering them as gifts, may feel they are "stupid" or "meaningless" for finding something of value in the words. "Why would that person say 'TL;DR' if they didn't come to the conculsion that the words were meaningless and unimportant?"

Well, yeah, for those persons they may already know all I've expressed and more without even saying it. That is awesome that people can intuit all the steps in a mathematical equation. But those people doing that are shitting on the people who want to know the specific steps involved in getting from point A to point B.

The degree of arrogance involved in the statement of "TL;DR" pisses me off more than every other type of arrogance on this board. If you have nothing to say, don't even ****ing share your judgment about what you believe is wrong with the message. I'm not going to be soft on people who write that any more ... if that's what I decide to do.

Because I find it more disturbing and harmful than QAnon beliefs. It is more harmful to everyone, including the person saying it, than any other statement that is made here. It is a form of linguistic violence -- the violence of stated dismissal of another and another's ideas -- that can be stated more softly and with greater meaning through silence.

That's aboiut as harsh as I'm going to be on that issue, though, because I recognize even that dismissive statement is an expression that a person somehow feels a desire or need to say. It's easy to dimiss another's desires, though, without harming them. But dismissing a person's needs? That is an actual violation of the person's integrity and dignity.
 
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That's amazing. So much I want to say, but I'm gathering within what might need to be said in relation to what you've said. I really want and need to let what you said stand on its own. It has a gravity to it that can sustain itself so I really have no need to respond.

The only "part of me" that feels a want AND a need to respond is that, through my interactions with you, you always came across as thoughtful. I'm realizing I never put you in the conservative or liberal boxes. You've presented yourself as far too complex as that. I suspect everyone is more complex than whatever it is they write here, but I have a higher-order respect for those that present themselves through a complexity of opinions, observations, and questions just because they've been serious enough to present themselves in those ways.

But I always know others may be similarly complex even if that is not what they share here. I don't know the time constraints of people, how they orient themselves within the world beyond what they present here, or much else in addition. I can't fathom the complexity of any one person on this site. And when I recognize that, I'm filled with awe in relation to who the other may actually be--and I don't mean what a person does for income or survival or security or belonging or anything else like that.

I mean the totality of a person's being, the whole of them that even they can't see within themselves through the manifestations of their thoughts, decisions, and actions. We are all more than what we do. In fact, what we do is among the tiniest "parts" of what we are. They are the only sources of external measurement of the other, true, but as it is with physics, do we really believe that the instruments physics use for detection of what is tells everything about what is and what might be (let alone what might become)?

In other words, I'm becoming ever more humble in relation to everyone else because ... the multitudes of possibilities each person represents. And so, I've really started to become more serious about what I say to each person because I realize that what I say can be construed as a manipulation, a trap, no matter my intentions. But I also know that every expression I make is an opportunity even if it is misinterpreted.

I admit that it pains me to read a message that essentially reads "TL;DR" in response to whatever I write. It pains me not for me because I don't need anything in return for whatever I share. What pains me is that others who actually may find the words I write truly meaningful and useful in their lives, because I am offering them as gifts, may feel they are "stupid" or "meaningless" for finding something of value in the words. "Why would that person say 'TL;DR' if they didn't come to the conculsion that the words were meaningless and unimportant?"

Well, yeah, for those persons they may already know all I've expressed and more without even saying it. That is awesome that people can intuit all the steps in a mathematical equation. But those people doing that are shitting on the people who want to know the specific steps involved in getting from point A to point B.

The degree of arrogance involved in the statement of "TL;DR" pisses me off more than every other type of arrogance on this board. If you have nothing to say, don't even ****ing share your judgment about what you believe is wrong with the message. I'm not going to be soft on people who write that any more ... if that's what I decide to do.

Because I find it more disturbing and harmful than QAnon beliefs. It is more harmful to everyone, including the person saying it, than any other statement that is made here. It is a form of linguistic violence -- the violence of stated dismissal of another and another's ideas -- that can be stated more softly and with greater meaning through silence.

That's aboiut as harsh as I'm going to be on that issue, though, because I recognize even that dismissive statement is an expression that a person somehow feels a desire or need to say. It's easy to dimiss another's desires, though, without harming them. But dismissing a person's needs? That is an actual violation of the person's integrity and dignity.
My advice to you is to not think too much. People who have an open mind will contemplate what you say. The others won't. I try to be respectful most of the time because I'm certainly not going to influence anyone by belittling them.
 
There are people here, and everywhere, who totally dismay me. In the end, most of us have the same goal, and that's peace and prosperity for their fellow person. Our differences come from how to best achieve that.

The main issue I see here is too many judgements are made without giving much thought to the topic, whether the subject is political, or just plain life. The best posters are those who entertain other opinions, even though the might disagree. The worst posters are those who are arrogant and narcissistic enough to think they are never wrong, or their opinion is fact.



... Even Chis.
Hey, I resemble that remark!
 
My advice to you is to not think too much. People who have an open mind will contemplate what you say. The others won't. I try to be respectful most of the time because I'm certainly not going to influence anyone by belittling them.

Good advice. Thank you.
 
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