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Hypothetical: Crean is fired, IU hires Fran; how soon does IU win the Nat'l Championship?

Franisdaman

Franisdaman

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Would Fran be able to recruit the 5 star studs that Crean gets?

If so, I think Fran would be winning B1G titles (not Wisconsin) and competing for national championships. But how long would it take for both?

I think Fran is a great coach and does a good job with the talent he has. But with 5 star talent and with a blue blood program like IU? Imagine....

It's all hypothetical....kinda like on the football board, where we ponder what KF would do with 5 star talent....

I think Crean gets fired by season's end, btw. This is what, his 9th season, and what has he done?
 
I'll skip the obvious, as you did say hypothetical.

Fran would have IU in the Sweet Sixteen in year two. By year four a repetitive challenge to win the Big Ten and reach the final four.

Consider what Lute made of Arizona.
 
Fran's forte is more of the NBA. I believe he is seriously lacking in the handling of college kids and their mindset.
 
"I think Crean gets fired by season's end, btw. This is what, his 9th season, and what has he done?"

2 Big Ten Regular season championships and 3 sweet sixteen appearances.

Not as impressive as Fran but I'd take it.
 
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Doubt the natty, but I think he could do more with the talent they get than the current occupant of that job.

Fran has never in his entire career had the level of players that the hoosier program routinely draws. Since I think he has done a pretty fair job with the average talent he's had in his time at Iowa it's not much of a stretch to think he could have even more success if he were routinely, rather than rarely, working with top 100 talent. And not uncommonly getting top 50 talent.
 
SirIllini said:
"I think Crean gets fired by season's end, btw. This is what, his 9th season, and what has he done?"

2 Big Ten Regular season championships and 3 sweet sixteen appearances.

Not as impressive as Fran but I'd take it.
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Shut up and keep Groce.
 
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It is obvious that Fran would want to take a job like Indiana to get away from Iowa. After all, it is impossible to recruit at Iowa, just ask Lute, George Ravelling, and Dr. Tom.
 
K OKeefe said:
It is obvious that Fran would want to take a job like Indiana to get away from Iowa. After all, it is impossible to recruit at Iowa, just ask Lute, George Ravelling, and Dr. Tom.
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What the heck are you trying to say?
 
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SDHawkDoc said:
Doubt the natty, but I think he could do more with the talent they get than the current occupant of that job.

Fran has never in his entire career had the level of players that the hoosier program routinely draws. Since I think he has done a pretty fair job with the average talent he's had in his time at Iowa it's not much of a stretch to think he could have even more success if he were routinely, rather than rarely, working with top 100 talent. And not uncommonly getting top 50 talent.
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DanL53 said:
What the heck are you trying to say?
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Pretty sure that was sarcasm, as we had some pretty solid recruiting classes back in the day. Heck, even through Alfords tenure, Iowa was able to recruit top talent, definitely well enough to compete if properly coached once in the program.
 
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IAHWKGUY said:
Pretty sure that was sarcasm, as we had some pretty solid recruiting classes back in the day. Heck, even through Alfords tenure, Iowa was able to recruit top talent, definitely well enough to compete if properly coached once in the program.
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I can buy into the sarcasm part, but I still don't follow the logic. Lute I could understand a bit, but I think we'd all agree that the world of College Basketball has changed with television markets. Raveling stated when he left how it would be easier to recruit at USC. And of course Davis was fired.

If I could just follow the point of Ken O'Keefe's sarcasm...but I've a feeling I wouldn't like it much.
 
Are you suggesting Indiana might "Crean" Coach Crean?

Not sure where Fran would have the Indiana program going, but he would probably have this year's IU team in a better situation than Crean does.

Let's get real though. Fran isn't getting another high tier coaching gig anytime soon.

Fran is a good coach, but he is 57 right now and very few high tier schools would be interested in a guy that has not taken a team past the Round of 32 in the NCAA tourney. The only exception is if he had strong alumni ties to a top tier school that really wanted him....which he doesn't.
 
DanL53 said:
I can buy into the sarcasm part, but I still don't follow the logic. Lute I could understand a bit, but I think we'd all agree that the world of College Basketball has changed with television markets. Raveling stated when he left how it would be easier to recruit at USC. And of course Davis was fired.

If I could just follow the point of Ken O'Keefe's sarcasm...but I've a feeling I wouldn't like it much.
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You don't have to agree, but he is saying past coaches have had no problem recruiting top talent, so don't use that as the excuse. We had decent recruiting for a good 20+ year stretch going from the 70's to early 2000's. The landscape hasn't changed that much, that a good coach couldn't recruit good talent to Iowa.

Not that it's apples to apples, but if geographic location is the main argument, Iowa State hasn't had many problems the last 10 years.
 
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SirIllini said:
"I think Crean gets fired by season's end, btw. This is what, his 9th season, and what has he done?"

2 Big Ten Regular season championships and 3 sweet sixteen appearances.

Not as impressive as Fran but I'd take it.
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Actually if you put everything in prospective like who is IU basketball vs Iowa bball. Also where IU was at when Crean took over as opposed to the depths of how low Iowa was with Lickliter. I'd say what Fran has done at Iowa is more impressive. At the very least, it would be close.
 
Two of Ravelling's classes went to the Elite 8 and the next year the Sweet 16. George Ravelling did not have as much success at USC as he envisioned. Dr. Tom Davis was able to recruit well enough that he took his own recruits to a Sweet 16 (Iowa's last Sweet 16) I know he was basically fired because it was believed that Alford was going to get Iowa to the next level. The problem with Ravelling and Alford is/was neither can coach a "Lick". It is possible and been proven that Iowa can attract good enough talent to get to the Final Four, Elite Eight (Should have been a Final 4 year- they had UNLV down what 20 @ halftime), and Sweet 16 in 4 out of 8 years.
 
K OKeefe said:
Two of Ravelling's classes went to the Elite 8 and the next year the Sweet 16. George Ravelling did not have as much success at USC as he envisioned. Dr. Tom Davis was able to recruit well enough that he took his own recruits to a Sweet 16 (Iowa's last Sweet 16) I know he was basically fired because it was believed that Alford was going to get Iowa to the next level. The problem with Ravelling and Alford is/was neither can coach a "Lick". It is possible and been proven that Iowa can attract good enough talent to get to the Final Four, Elite Eight (Should have been a Final 4 year- they had UNLV down what 20 @ halftime), and Sweet 16 in 4 out of 8 years.
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Iowa had no idea who they would hire when they decided to Replace Dr. Tom.
 
DanL53 said:
Iowa had no idea who they would hire when they decided to Replace Dr. Tom.
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Alford was the mid-major flavor of the month after leading SW Missouri St. to the Sweet 16. Iowa knew Alford was not going to be on the market long. I understand the whole lame duck 1998 season. They may not have targeted Alford specifically, Iowa was going to target a mid-major guy like that. After all, when a coach the stature of Dr. Tom is let go with the level of success he was having it is tough to peak the interest of an established guy.

"Very few of us have the aplomb and the dignity with which he conducts himself," Calhoun told the Hartford (Conn.) Courant about Davis before the game. "He's been a role model for all of us. Whether (his ouster) is fair or unfair, that's not my judgment. My judgment is that he has succeeded in a lame-duck situation, and as he succeeds, many people have talked about a lot of different things. What Tom has done so wonderfully is talk about his team and the game."

http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...tball-sweet-16-1999-moments-madness/81547880/
 
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I got it.....

If my sister had a penis, she would be my brother!
 
IAHWKGUY said:
You don't have to agree, but he is saying past coaches have had no problem recruiting top talent, so don't use that as the excuse. We had decent recruiting for a good 20+ year stretch going from the 70's to early 2000's. The landscape hasn't changed that much, that a good coach couldn't recruit good talent to Iowa.

Not that it's apples to apples, but if geographic location is the main argument, Iowa State hasn't had many problems the last 10 years.
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I'm glad I don't have to agree :), but I respectfully beg to differ. Tom Davis was average at best in recruiting. It's the primary reason the fans ran him off. I think Fran is better at recruiting.
 
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K OKeefe said:
Alford was the mid-major flavor of the month after leading SW Missouri St. to the Sweet 16. Iowa knew Alford was not going to be on the market long. I understand the whole lame duck 1998 season. They may not have targeted Alford specifically, Iowa was going to target a mid-major guy like that. After all, when a coach the stature of Dr. Tom is let go with the level of success he was having it is tough to peak the interest of an established guy.
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I'm glad we got that settled. Dr. Tom was notified he would not receive a new contract one full year and then some before Alford took his SWMS team to the Sweet Sixteen. Alford was on no one's radar until that Sweet Sixteen.

As to Dr. Tom's recruiting, his last ten years he was barely above .500 in the Big Ten. Take one year of rebuilding away, and McCaffery has done much better than that! So in general, when I read comments from posters that he can't recruit, can't game coach, can't develop players........I gotta think what a heck of a luck streak he's had considering all his failures.

I'd also point out this is the same kind of conversation that takes place whenever Iowa suffers losing some games. Causing me to believe we just have a segment of fans who need to grow a pair. Not saying you, I have had you on ignore for a long time up until this thread so I don't know...maybe once in awhile you have something good to say. And, not to worry, I suspect I'll grant you the peace of putting you back on ignore after this conversation. In respect of your right to post without being hounded over your opinion.

You are welcome to it.
 
DanL53 said:
I'm glad we got that settled. Dr. Tom was notified he would not receive a new contract one full year and then some before Alford took his SWMS team to the Sweet Sixteen. Alford was on no one's radar until that Sweet Sixteen.

As to Dr. Tom's recruiting, his last ten years he was barely above .500 in the Big Ten. Take one year of rebuilding away, and McCaffery has done much better than that! So in general, when I read comments from posters that he can't recruit, can't game coach, can't develop players........I gotta think what a heck of a luck streak he's had considering all his failures.

I'd also point out this is the same kind of conversation that takes place whenever Iowa suffers losing some games. Causing me to believe we just have a segment of fans who need to grow a pair. Not saying you, I have had you on ignore for a long time up until this thread so I don't know...maybe once in awhile you have something good to say. And, not to worry, I suspect I'll grant you the peace of putting you back on ignore after this conversation. In respect of your right to post without being hounded over your opinion.

You are welcome to it.
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DanL53, I am not here to argue with you- remember you asked me a question and quoted me in your posts not the other way around. I like how the apologists love to exclude Fran's early years- the funny thing is the apologists on the football side of the board do the same thing for Kirk Ferentz's first couple of seasons. I count a successful season as to whether the Hawkeyes make the Sweet 16. It is obvious you focus on W/L in conference. I would suggest that back in Dr. Tom's day when every team in the conference had a home-and-home with every team comparing W/L in conference is not apples-to-apples. When Coach Fran can lead a team out of the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament ( something he has never done)then I will become a believer, until then there is really nothing to talk about.

"I'm glad we got that settled. Dr. Tom was notified he would not receive a new contract one full year and then some before Alford took his SWMS team to the Sweet Sixteen. Alford was on no one's radar until that Sweet Sixteen." You sir are wrong about this. Dr. Tom was notified in early April that this was his last year @ Iowa. Bowlsby even suggested that he not coach the next season and Dr. Tom said he wanted one last go round with his recruits.

http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...tball-sweet-16-1999-moments-madness/81547880/
 
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DanL53 said:
I'm glad we got that settled. Dr. Tom was notified he would not receive a new contract one full year and then some before Alford took his SWMS team to the Sweet Sixteen. Alford was on no one's radar until that Sweet Sixteen.
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This is not true at all. He was on a lot of people's radars and it was well known he was on Bowlsby's short list of candidates, and one of Alford's coaching colleagues Buzz Peterson was telling people as early as February that the job was going to Steve.
 
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Davis did make the tourney 9 times in 13 seasons, including his final year. Granted he walked into a better situation than Fran did, but if we assume we won't make it this year, that 3 times in 7 seasons.

Davis's teams also spent time in the AP25 12 out of 13 seasons, and Fran just 3 in 7.

Davis also had some top flight recruits rather consistently, heck, even Duez Henderson was the MI player of the year and was a Freshman in Davis's final season.

Overall his recruiting was good at least in my memory, the powers that be just wanted more, and by more, I mean consistent Final Fours. Missing out on LaFrentz hurt if memory serves, that felt like the beginning of the end. But tough to go up against Kansas and every school in the country, home state kid or not.
 
Alford has lost 4 games in conference already. UCLA is not going to win their league and that is not what UCLA expects. Alford has shown he can recruit, he hasn't shown he knows what to do with them when he gets them.
I think IU may be interested in Alford down the line but I think Crean gets at least another year. He won the conference just 2 years ago.
 
K OKeefe said:
DanL53, I am not here to argue with you- remember you asked me a question and quoted me in your posts not the other way around. I like how the apologists love to exclude Fran's early years- the funny thing is the apologists on the football side of the board do the same thing for Kirk Ferentz's first couple of seasons. I count a successful season as to whether the Hawkeyes make the Sweet 16. It is obvious you focus on W/L in conference. I would suggest that back in Dr. Tom's day when every team in the conference had a home-and-home with every team comparing W/L in conference is not apples-to-apples. When Coach Fran can lead a team out of the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament ( something he has never done)then I will become a believer, until then there is really nothing to talk about.

"I'm glad we got that settled. Dr. Tom was notified he would not receive a new contract one full year and then some before Alford took his SWMS team to the Sweet Sixteen. Alford was on no one's radar until that Sweet Sixteen." You sir are wrong about this. Dr. Tom was notified in early April that this was his last year @ Iowa. Bowlsby even suggested that he not coach the next season and Dr. Tom said he wanted one last go round with his recruits.

http://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sp...tball-sweet-16-1999-moments-madness/81547880/
Click to expand...

I think I just said you had a right to your opinion and I would leave you to it. And someone who claimed Dr. Tom was fired so we could hire Alford should probably be checking his own facts.
 
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