If we don't go on a run in the NCAAs, it's time

[Herky T Hawk]

Stupid is throwing childish tantrums every time things don’t go our way…..and turning a bad shooting game into a fire the coach and go out and hire another coach with no good evidence that they can do anything different…..like other programs that are no where near as stable and successful as ours seem to do repeatedly.

People that want to bitch and whine and wallow in misery only end up dragging others down.

To be fair, for the people complaining this isn’t about just a bad shooting game. It is about a consistent pattern of bad shooting absolutely killing us in many games this season. It is about lack of defense killing us in many games this season. It is about a coach that seemingly can’t adapt the game plan when shots aren’t falling. And it is really about all of those things happening for most of a decade now.

If we can’t hit a 3 a good coach would say work the ball inside and try to get fouled, not continue jacking up 3pt shots. A good coach would say that when your shots aren’t falling work harder on the other end of the court to keep them from scoring and create transition opportunities. Yes the coach can’t go out there and play the game, but they can pick who is on the floor and reward people putting in effort on D.

 

[WaterTower]

Go after Devries. If not him, go after someone who takes some pride in trying to not let the other team score.

If?...lol

 

[dekhawk]

Stupid is throwing childish tantrums every time things don’t go our way…..and turning a bad shooting game into a fire the coach and go out and hire another coach with no good evidence that they can do anything different…..like other programs that are no where near as stable and successful as ours seem to do repeatedly.

People that want to bitch and whine and wallow in misery only end up dragging others down.

People who settle, drag others down also.

 

[dekhawk]

To be fair, for the people complaining this isn’t about just a bad shooting game. It is about a consistent pattern of bad shooting absolutely killing us in many games this season. It is about lack of defense killing us in many games this season. It is about a coach that seemingly can’t adapt the game plan when shots aren’t falling. And it is really about all of those things happening for most of a decade now.

If we can’t hit a 3 a good coach would say work the ball inside and try to get fouled, not continue jacking up 3pt shots. A good coach would say that when your shots aren’t falling work harder on the other end of the court to keep them from scoring and create transition opportunities. Yes the coach can’t go out there and play the game, but they can pick who is on the floor and reward people putting in effort on D.

This. Year 13

 

[kwik44]

I think they actually do it this year. Last year, they had sights set on big ten tournament. It was exhausting & exhilarating at the same time.

Post game yesterday, they almost seemed ok with getting the extra rest & hungry for the tournament. Let's hope they play hard this go around.

 

[perryhawk]

To be fair, for the people complaining this isn’t about just a bad shooting game. It is about a consistent pattern of bad shooting absolutely killing us in many games this season. It is about lack of defense killing us in many games this season. It is about a coach that seemingly can’t adapt the game plan when shots aren’t falling. And it is really about all of those things happening for most of a decade now.

If we can’t hit a 3 a good coach would say work the ball inside and try to get fouled, not continue jacking up 3pt shots. A good coach would say that when your shots aren’t falling work harder on the other end of the court to keep them from scoring and create transition opportunities. Yes the coach can’t go out there and play the game, but they can pick who is on the floor and reward people putting in effort on D.

The point being missed is that EVERY coach in EVERY program has something that they do that some fans are going to bitch about….. and fans can choose to wallow in that misery if that’s who they are.

 

[perryhawk]

People who settle, drag others down also.

You’re assuming people who don’t whine and bitch are “settling” …..which is a false assumption. You’re looking at things on a surface level.

 

[dekhawk]

You’re assuming people who don’t whine and bitch are “settling” …..which is a false assumption. You’re looking at things on a surface level.

Conversely, you assume that people who want more are only whining. Not that they have looked at the facts, allowed plenty of time for changes, have seen better and want / expect more. They go below the surface and analyze.

 

[Rustys Dad]

It’s interesting to me the Franiacs don’t expect more from our program and aren’t even interested
in the thought that … maybe … just maybe … there could be a coach out there who can exceed Fran’s 51% conference record and 0 Sweet 16s… Interesting Mark Few has led Gonzaga to 12 Sweet 16s and 20 (yes 20) Round of 32s.

Gonzaga was as average as average program can be prior to hiring Few. Point being - yes, you can take your program to the next level.

Franiacs bring out the templated responses of:

“Careful what you wish for … remember Alford/Lick?”

“We’ve made the tourney 5 years in a row.”

“We’ve always been an average program.”

This is Iowa basketball folks. Fran has peaked at Iowa … If the past 13 seasons are all we can accomplish at ‘lil ‘ol Iowa - then enjoy the ride of being “average” … I guess?

 

[hawkland14]

To be fair, for the people complaining this isn’t about just a bad shooting game. It is about a consistent pattern of bad shooting absolutely killing us in many games this season. It is about lack of defense killing us in many games this season. It is about a coach that seemingly can’t adapt the game plan when shots aren’t falling. And it is really about all of those things happening for most of a decade now.

If we can’t hit a 3 a good coach would say work the ball inside and try to get fouled, not continue jacking up 3pt shots. A good coach would say that when your shots aren’t falling work harder on the other end of the court to keep them from scoring and create transition opportunities. Yes the coach can’t go out there and play the game, but they can pick who is on the floor and reward people putting in effort on D.

We did work the ball inside yesterday. Go look at how many easy shots Filip missed in last ten minutes of the game. We didn't just jack shots all day from the perimeter and to say otherwise is just wanting to fit a narrative. Our shot selection was excellent for the most part.

The way Iowa plays, and most teams in the modern age, is you have to take a three when its a catch and shoot rhythm wide open situation after a ball reversal or dribble drive kick out. So many of those threes were yesterday and have been in the games we have shot poorly on the road. For whatever reason they don't seem to be going in this year(on the road at least), but they are still considered quality shots and the advanced stats bear that out as Iowa has an excellent rating when it comes to shot selection. This isn't 1997 anymore, you don't just throw into a post and stand around while he backs down and shoots.

What we do lack and always have probably since Andre or Deano is a guard that can consistently finish at the rim. At times Tony can do it but his handles are average at best and loses control before getting to the rim.

 

[hawkland14]

This. Year 13

Anyone who complains about a Top 10 offense year in and year out is complaining to complain.

Complaining about defensive philosophy or lack of effort on that end is a fair and rightful criticism but people lose any validity in their criticism when they complain about our offense.

 

[dekhawk]

Anyone who complains about a Top 10 offense year in and year out is complaining to complain.

Complaining about defensive philosophy or lack of effort on that end is a fair and rightful criticism but people lose any validity in their criticism when they complain about our offense.

Did I complain about the offense or the entire body of work?

 

[hawkland14]

Did I complain about the offense or the entire body of work?

The post you referenced did.

 

[hahkize]

I do think this is the biggest NCAA in Fran's tenure. A quick out and they should consider striking on DeVries.

My problem is defense. If you go back and look at KenPom, the teams look very very similar year after year; Very efficient at offence, and bad at defense.

Agreed whole-heartedly. If anyone watched the last Northwestern-Illini game, the defense from both teams was outstanding typical Big10 physical defense. Illinois has had that for some time, but NW? this year sort of out-of-the-blue?

Another big problem I have w/ Fran's teams is they really have never had enough guys who could create a shot for themselves. (Perkins is ok). They aren't athletic enough or can't control the ball well enough, but all Fran has really had is a bunch of H-O-R-S-E players on the perimeter.

 

[perryhawk]

Conversely, you assume that people who want more are only whining. Not that they have looked at the facts, allowed plenty of time for changes, have seen better and want / expect more. They go below the surface and analyze.

Haha.....there's no "assume" about it...they do only whine. In the cases I'm referring to there is no balance...no recognition of anything other than fire the coach!!! Looked at facts? They've seen what they want to see and have an emotional meltdown after a game that then turns into an obsession to try and prove their position is correct.

The only below the surface is to tray and find facts to support their negativity.....prior to last year the "facts" according to them were that Fran can't do anything in the B10 Tournament and never will...the same folks who said Kirk's time was up after a bad season in 2014......before the undefeated regular season in 2015.

 

[hawkland14]

Agreed whole-heartedly. If anyone watched the last Northwestern-Illini game, the defense from both teams was outstanding typical Big10 physical defense. Illinois has had that for some time, but NW? this year sort of out-of-the-blue?

Another big problem I have w/ Fran's teams is they really have never had enough guys who could create a shot for themselves. (Perkins is ok). They aren't athletic enough or can't control the ball well enough, but all Fran has really had is a bunch of H-O-R-S-E players on the perimeter.

I think you can argue that we need more athletes on the floor to create their own shot but to be honest we really can't get much better on offense. To say we just have a bunch of HORSE players is ridiculous. Iowa consistently has players that are willing to make the extra pass who don't turn the ball over. We have been Top 10 in offensive efficiency last the five seasons, you don't do that with shooters only.

The only gripe that fans should have with Fran and his coaching ability is his inability to get his teams to guard at a consistent rate. If we guarded at a Top 50 to Top 75 rate we would be a 2 to 3 seed every year in the Dance.

 

[hahkize]

I think you can argue that we need more athletes on the floor to create their own shot but to be honest we really can't get much better on offense. To say we just have a bunch of HORSE players is ridiculous. Iowa consistently has players that are willing to make the extra pass who don't turn the ball over. We have been Top 10 in offensive efficiency last the five seasons, you don't do that with shooters only.

The only gripe that fans should have with Fran and his coaching ability is his inability to get his teams to guard at a consistent rate. If we guarded at a Top 50 to Top 75 rate we would be a 2 to 3 seed every year in the Dance.

There's an old saying that "You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear". I highly doubt Fran is coaching his guys to play soft or grab drivers. Connor and TP are really the only two I've seen that have that mindset and Connor is limited physically in defending a quicker guy who likes to put the ball on the floor. And jmo about our perimeter guys abilities, but we shoot a bunch of 3's b/c that's what our guys do best. They lack quicks, physicality, being strong w/ the ball in a crowd, having a strong core and that strong mindset. Ulis, Bowen, Murray, PM, Sandfort, not going to beat their man 1 on 1 to the basket in a crowd. There's no Buie (NW) or anyone like him from this league on Iowa's team at this time.
Been that way for most of Fran's tenure and what's necessary to get to a Sweet 16.
Again, jmo.

 

[hawkland14]

There's an old saying that "You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear". I highly doubt Fran is coaching his guys to play soft or grab drivers. Connor and TP are really the only two I've seen that have that mindset and Connor is limited physically in defending a quicker guy who likes to put the ball on the floor. And jmo about our perimeter guys abilities, but we shoot a bunch of 3's b/c that's what our guys do best. They lack quicks, physicality, being strong w/ the ball in a crowd, having a strong core and that strong mindset. Ulis, Bowen, Murray, PM, Sandfort, not going to beat their man 1 on 1 to the basket in a crowd. There's no Buie (NW) or anyone like him from this league on Iowa's team at this time.
Been that way for most of Fran's tenure and what's necessary to get to a Sweet 16.
Again, jmo.

Its been that way since Dean Oliver graduated in 2001. Alford had very few guys that could get to the rim and finish. We know Lickliter didn't have anyone other than Jonny Lick who could.

That still hasn't stopped us from having the best offense in the conference. The only way we are going to take the next step under Fran, which he has proven he won't address, is on the defensive end.

 

[blhawk]

It’s time for the weak fans to go cheer for a different team.

It's the weak fans who tell other fans to go cheer for a different team because they are too fragile to handle any criticism of the program. I'd say stop being such a pussy but with this post you're probably a lost cause

 

[dekhawk]

Haha.....there's no "assume" about it...they do only whine. In the cases I'm referring to there is no balance...no recognition of anything other than fire the coach!!! Looked at facts? They've seen what they want to see and have an emotional meltdown after a game that then turns into an obsession to try and prove their position is correct.

The only below the surface is to tray and find facts to support their negativity.....prior to last year the "facts" according to them were that Fran can't do anything in the B10 Tournament and never will...the same folks who said Kirk's time was up after a bad season in 2014......before the undefeated regular season in 2015.

So you’re good with one big ten tournament title in 13 years, no regular season conference titles, no ncaa runs? We will have to agree to disagree. I hope to eat crow, but 13 years is not a small sample size.

 

[Razorhawk2]

It’s interesting to me the Franiacs don’t expect more from our program and aren’t even interested
in the thought that … maybe … just maybe … there could be a coach out there who can exceed Fran’s 51% conference record and 0 Sweet 16s… Interesting Mark Few has led Gonzaga to 12 Sweet 16s and 20 (yes 20) Round of 32s.

Gonzaga was as average as average program can be prior to hiring Few. Point being - yes, you can take your program to the next level.

Franiacs bring out the templated responses of:

“Careful what you wish for … remember Alford/Lick?”

“We’ve made the tourney 5 years in a row.”

“We’ve always been an average program.”

This is Iowa basketball folks. Fran has peaked at Iowa … If the past 13 seasons are all we can accomplish at ‘lil ‘ol Iowa - then enjoy the ride of being “average” … I guess?

You and many fans are willing to gamble a good basketball program that’s highly entertaining for something better. You bring up Alford and Lick like it won’t happen again. Tom Davis had Iowa a national respected program but fans like you and many on this board demanded better. Lute Olson left Iowa for a struggling Arizona program and left Iowa saying fans were too passionate and demanding. If I didn’t know better I’d think I was on the Nebraska board.

 

[dekhawk]

You and many fans are willing to gamble a good basketball program that’s highly entertaining for something better. You bring up Alford and Lick like it won’t happen again. Tom Davis had Iowa a national respected program but fans like you and many on this board demanded better. Lute Olson left Iowa for a struggling Arizona program and left Iowa saying fans were too passionate and demanding. If I didn’t know better I’d think I was on the Nebraska board.

Would you prefer fans that aren’t passionate?

 

[Razorhawk2]

Would you prefer fans that aren’t passionate?

More like entitlement.

 

[JRHawk2003]

More like entitlement.

I don't think asking for a Sweet 16 or gasp...a final 4 more than once every 50 years is being entitled

 

[Rifler]

I don't think asking for a Sweet 16 or gasp...a final 4 more than once every 50 years is being entitled

Of course not, you're entitled...

 

[JLDHAWK]

NO IT is not--we are in the golden age of Iowa B-ball.

Contract Extension, Pay Raise for Fran.

PMAC will start every game next year and average 14 shots per game.

Jack will go to Iowa and down the road turn to be a well below average defensive player at college level and Fran will play him at the 3 position.

Bowen likely enter Portal this spring, Fran won't bring anyone in, and if he does, it will be someone not really
wanted by other P5 teams.

JoshO will get a medical hardship scholarship and not play next year,

The 6'0 PG from Illiinoi will come in and turn out to be a solid offensive PG, not much of a defender.

We will have a lof of shooters next year, but no one to rebound/dribble drive, not much post game offense

Kris Murray off to NBA or at least G-league,

Sub 500 B1G record next year but Fran's overall B1G record last 5 years has been solid, so no
worries.

What's our tourney record? Trying to remember how many sweet 16's we have too.

 

[Razorhawk2]

Go after Devries. If not him, go after someone who takes some pride in trying to not let the other team score.

If you love defensive games tune into Northwestern 26 vs Penn State 25 (halftime).

 

[perryhawk]

So you’re good with one big ten tournament title in 13 years, no regular season conference titles, no ncaa runs? We will have to agree to disagree. I hope to eat crow, but 13 years is not a small sample size.

No I’m not. I’m not good with our defensive level of play, I’d like to see better recruiting, and another Final 4 run in my lifetime…. I want more success, but I also recognize that the competition works hard for the same things….we’ve fired good coaches and hired the hottest prospect in the country at the time (Alford), and the National Coach of the Year (Todd L), as have other colleges in both football and basketball….. and the chances/odds of improving the program are low. I agree that 13 years is a lot of info….but I don’t believe he’s peaked yet, and I think experience says our chances are better staying the course. Changing course can derail a program for a decade or more.

When we have a GUARANTEED coaching prospect that can get us where we want to go, I’m on board……

 

[perryhawk]

It's the weak fans who tell other fans to go cheer for a different team because they are too fragile to handle any criticism of the program. I'd say stop being such a pussy but with this post you're probably a lost cause

Mentally childish posters who have tantrums and resort to name calling just demonstrate the lack of intelligence and maturity that’s a mental/emotional weakness.

Those are the kind of people you don’t want on your team, because when the going gets tough….they really start whining and dragging people down. I guarantee our coaches and players wouldn’t put up with it, but that’s one of the reasons they’re at that level.

 

[83Hawk]

No I’m not. I’m not good with our defensive level of play, I’d like to see better recruiting, and another Final 4 run in my lifetime…. I want more success, but I also recognize that the competition works hard for the same things….we’ve fired good coaches and hired the hottest prospect in the country at the time (Alford), and the National Coach of the Year (Todd L), as have other colleges in both football and basketball….. and the chances/odds of improving the program are low. I agree that 13 years is a lot of info….but I don’t believe he’s peaked yet, and I think experience says our chances are better staying the course. Changing course can derail a program for a decade or more.

When we have a GUARANTEED coaching prospect that can get us where we want to go, I’m on board……

Still hasn't peaked after 13 years, eh? Interesting.

I just shake my head at all the people who are absolutely frightened over a coaching change.

And I wish people would stop with the "who is Iowa going to hire" and "what coach is going to come to here" nonsense. Comments like those imply Iowa is a trash program. It's not.

And no.....I am not calling for Fran to be fired. Just tired of the Negative Nellies that think the program can't possibly be any better, and will get worse when Fran is gone.

 

[Razorhawk2]

Still hasn't peaked after 13 years, eh? Interesting.

I just shake my head at all the people who are absolutely frightened over a coaching change.

And I wish people would stop with the "who is Iowa going to hire" and "what coach is going to come to here" nonsense. Comments like those imply Iowa is a trash program. It's not.

And no.....I am not calling for Fran to be fired. Just tired of the Negative Nellies that think the program can't possibly be any better, and will get worse when Fran is gone.

Absolutely frightened might be a slight exaggeration. More like skeptical.

 

[83Hawk]

Absolutely frightened might be a slight exaggeration. More like skeptical.

No, I think frightened is the correct word.

 

[Razorhawk2]

No, I think frightened is the correct word.

Realistic is probably the best word for most fans with common sense.

 

[RocknRollface]

Iowa lost 63% of its scoring after '21 (Garza, Wieskamp, Fredrick, Nunge) and made the tournament in '22. Iowa lost 46% of its scoring after '22 (Keegan, Bohannon, Toussaint) and will make the tournament in '23.

It's not unprecedented.

Yeah, a rebuilding year wouldn't surprise me next year but a lot of the same guys on here have been predicting last place finishes since Tyler Cook left.

They can't seem to wrap their mind around the idea that in college basketball players improve from one year to the next.

 

[RocknRollface]

It was easy to see a Keegan and a Kris on those teams. Whose the Keegan or Kris next year? Do you see a NBA first round pick on the roster right now? Also whose rebounding next year?

What? No. Go back and read threads after the Oregon ass whopping.

Almost no one was predicting anything positive going forward.

Kris didn't even play that year and Keegan was not considered to be a player that was going to score.

The focus was all on losing Garza and how he was the only thing keeping Iowa from being the worst team in the conference.

You can go back further and see the same exact reactions over losing Cook and then Keegan.

Fran will most likely continue doing what he usually does, great offense shity defense, upper middle of the pack finish and no tournament success because of the shity defense.

 

[RocknRollface]

I mean..is there a NBA player on Purdue or NW's squad? Fran needs to call up Chris Collins and ask how he overhauled the defense.

He needs to but he won't.

 

[kzoohawk80]

What? No. Go back and read threads after the Oregon ass whopping.

Almost no one was predicting anything positive going forward.

Kris didn't even play that year and Keegan was not considered to be a player that was going to score.

The focus was all on losing Garza and how he was the only thing keeping Iowa from being the worst team in the conference.

You can go back further and see the same exact reactions over losing Cook and then Keegan.

Fran will most likely continue doing what he usually does, great offense shity defense, upper middle of the pack finish and no tournament success because of the shity defense.

Almost all outlets had Keegan and Kris as breakout players the last 2 years. Just go read the articles, there still there. So yes Keegan and Kris where expected to breakout the last 2 years by national media. Honestly it wasn't hard to see. Do you see someone making that leap next year? You can make an argument for Peyton and Perkins. My personal opinion is that's going to take a lot for that to happen which is why I think next years going to be rough. This team needs to replace a 4,5 that produced a ton of production. Right now there's 2 guys that Fran doesn't trust to play in Josh O and Mulvey. And what 2 incoming freshman coming to play those positions.

 

[RocknRollface]

Almost all outlets had Keegan and Kris as breakout players the last 2 years. Just go read the articles, there still there. So yes Keegan and Kris where expected to breakout the last 2 years by national media. Honestly it wasn't hard to see. Do you see someone making that leap next year? You can make an argument for Peyton and Perkins. My personal opinion is that's going to take a lot for that to happen which is why I think next years going to be rough. This team needs to replace a 4,5 that produced a ton of production. Right now there's 2 guys that Fran doesn't trust to play in Josh O and Mulvey. And what 2 incoming freshman coming to play those positions.

Ok I miss read that. Yes Kris was expected because he had already broken out last year but no one at all expected Keegan to be a player of the year candidate.

I was told over and over how great the last two years were because Iowa was picked twoards the bottom of the league.

Go read the posts after Cook and Moss left, after the Oregon ass whooping and after last years choke job.

The majority of posts are doom and gloom bottom of the league predictions for the following year based on loss of point production.

I could see a rebuilding year next year If Fran somehow can't manage to pay some bigs to come here, but If I had to guess Iowa will probably lead the league in scoring again, play terrible D and be somewhere in the middle of the league like usual.

 

[83Hawk]

Realistic is probably the best word for most fans with common sense.

It is not realistic to assume Iowa can't possibly be any better than they are now, and that when Fran leaves the program is virtually guaranteed to return to Lick-level awfulness.

That's not common sense, that's stupidity and fear.

 

[Razorhawk2]

It is not realistic to assume Iowa can't possibly be any better than they are now, and that when Fran leaves the program is virtually guaranteed to return to Lick-level awfulness.

That's not common sense, that's stupidity and fear.

I don’t recall in this thread or any of the other “Fire Fran” thread’s ANYONE saying if Fran leaves the program it’s guaranteed to return to Lick-level awfulness. You’re making that up and not being truthful.