Slater is recovering from surgery and would likely be in the 2 deeps if he were healthy. Phil Parker spoke highly of his future at D-Tackle last fall.
If we miss on Martin
- Thread starter IA_Hawks7
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RE: point 1 - As noted by Dochterman of the Gazette and shared in an article by Morehouse, with Welch out during Kids day, Newborg was practicing with the #2s at OG. While that doesn't prove anything ... it does suggest that he's doing a good job on the OL. If a guy is already finding a good fit at the position he was recruited at, the odds are that he won't move.
As we learned last year, depth on the OL is important. Sometimes a guy will go down to injury ... and that supplies an opportunity to another guy. If the "next man in" steps up and fills the void ... it's also possible that the guy can make it difficult to take him back off of the field. We saw that with Croston this past year. Daniels also proved impressive enough that he earned a lot of playing time too.
Consequently, my impression is that Newborg sticks at OG.
RE: point 2 - If a DE slides over ... he'll have to have shown the ability to play very low. Also, he'll have to have adequate size. Lastly, things work even faster at DT that it does at DE ... the closer you are to the ball, the quicker the game moves. Thus, if a DE moves to the inside, they also must show that they have the "knack" for it.
Given that Hesse is just at 250 lb right now ... it might be tough for him to move to the interior at 260. Right now, I'd have his development pegged so that he's more likely to be at 265 to 270 by his SR year. However, as we know, playing weight isn't everything. Klug was only around 270 when he started making noise at DT in '08. Heck, in his first two years starting at DT, Mitch King's playing weight was typically under 260 (he was in the 240s in '05).
Also, I'd anticipate that the coaches would only move a guy to the interior if they felt like they had an "ace in the hole" at DE, in order to fill the void. In '03, Babs moved to the interior because they liked Roth. The year before that, Cole moved to the interior because the coaches had Babs and Hodges at DE. In '09, Ballard moved to the interior because the coaches like Binns.
Who would be that "ace in the hold?" Would it be Anthony Nelson? Would it be Andrew Van Ginkel (if he were to commit)? I don't know.
Thanks. I missed that news on Newborg.
Also, appreciate the insight on the DT position. Hesse's weight is the one aspect that stood out vis-à-vis a switch. I went back and looked - he was listed at 205 lbs when he signed with Iowa. That's a pretty big difference; doesn't look like he has a problem adding weight.
As I recall, both Daniels and Klug both started just a shade over 200 ... so if everybody were to be committed to moving Hesse to DT ... it could happen. However, my gut tells me that Lattimore and Slater will be able to provide eachother some good competition - so the DT position will likely be in good hands in 2017.
Besides, Epenesa reminds me of a Joey Bosa type of D-lineman, in terms of size and ability. They might have the freedom to line him up on both the inside or the outside. In the past we had done that with Babs too.
Focus on the next kid that will make the team better where we need it most. Not sure if that stays within the WR position. Especially now that WR position is showing some surprise depth right in camp...go for the next best kid on the board...
The listings of personnel for the various strings are in the following link. Enjoy!
http://www.thegazette.com/subject/sports/stats-lineups-and-hawkeyes-impressions-20160815
When's the last time Iowa had a below-average DT on the field? Did Gaglione play DT or DE?
We're going to be fine at DT even if we never spent a scholarship at that position because of the quality of the S&C program and the coaching of Reece Morgan.
Morgan could mine up the Kroul's, LTP's, Bazata's, and Klug's of IA, IL, NE, SD, WI, and MN to get them to walk on and earn their scholarship. That could free us up to make ourselves AIRBHG proof at RB and improve depth at OL, LB, and WR or spend the extra scholarship on important positions like long snapper and an Elite 11 holder.
We're going to be fine at DT even if we never spent a scholarship at that position because of the quality of the S&C program and the coaching of Reece Morgan.
Morgan could mine up the Kroul's, LTP's, Bazata's, and Klug's of IA, IL, NE, SD, WI, and MN to get them to walk on and earn their scholarship. That could free us up to make ourselves AIRBHG proof at RB and improve depth at OL, LB, and WR or spend the extra scholarship on important positions like long snapper and an Elite 11 holder.
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Bigach and/or Trinca-Pasat in 2012 ... neither were particularly formidable that year. However, that was also the first year of having Morgan as the DL coach. We had just canned Coach Kaz because he kept on running off guys and was producing very poor morale on the DL. In 2012, Gaglione started at DE and actually had a decent season while he was healthy.
In 2011, we had Nardo at DT ... he was actually surprisingly decent at DT. Injuries took their toll on him as the season progressed through.
Lastly, what the heck are you talking about concerning Kroul, LTP, Bazata, and Klug? All of those guys were on scholarship from the outset. Furthermore, Morgan doesn't recruit Illinois. I suppose you're being a smart-ass with your latter comments. However, the point remains that Morgan really is an excellent coach. Furthermore, Doyle really does build our guys up on the DL. Lastly, Iowa actually DOES have quite a number of guys who were recruited to the DL. It's not outlandish to suppose that some guys will develop into the position, rather than being ready-made guys.
Bigach was who I was thinking of and even he wasn't that bad. We can make any player that we bring in with the requisite size into a serviceable DT. Spend a few more scholarships on OL/DE/LB, flip ones on the fringe to DT, sick Doyle on them, and turn them into gap filling animals.
What I mean is we can find big kids with no significant offers and put them in the NFL. We should be able to get players with Kroul, King, LTP, and Bazata's offer list to walk on. Give players that buy in and show promise a scholie the next year. Prevents burning a scholarship on a 5th string DT. If we continue to have top 10 success and our brand continues to grow nationally, we may have the luxury to do something like this on the DL and OL.
What I mean is we can find big kids with no significant offers and put them in the NFL. We should be able to get players with Kroul, King, LTP, and Bazata's offer list to walk on. Give players that buy in and show promise a scholie the next year. Prevents burning a scholarship on a 5th string DT. If we continue to have top 10 success and our brand continues to grow nationally, we may have the luxury to do something like this on the DL and OL.
While my impression is that you're still being rather facetious .... you are articulating a view that has merit.
Iowa HAS managed to get guys like Snyder, Bower, Croston, and others relatively "on the cheap." With development, those guys are most definitely D1 talent. Furthermore, as you mentioned, we get them to walk-on ... they work hard and can earn themselves a scholarship. All the while, the Iowa program comes off smelling like a rose.
That is our way of skirting issues as they relate to over-signing. We target our scholarships to the top talents that we can land ... and, when we're winning, that likely includes elite talent. Of course, they also particularly target top guys who they feel will have a good work ethic and who fits us schematically. Between Ferentz's connections, the fact that Iowa's schemes translate nicely to the next level, and our emphasis on fundamentals .... we then place A LOT of guys in the NFL. Yet another attribute that helps the Iowa program to come off smelling like a rose.
Because of our emphasis on hard work and fundamentals ... we do lose guys to attrition who don't end up "fitting." Furthermore, guys who don't develop end up seeing themselves buried on the depth chart ... and they don't want to keep on training like the Hawks do. Consequently, a lot of guys move on after they get their degree ... and they leave a year early (the 4th-year juniors).
That attrition then opens up the door for more prospecting ... both among high quality walk-ons AND among high-quality scholarship recruits. When it's working ... the Hawk program's personnel can compete on the highest level. When it's working ... it's a strategy that really works a lot like the over-signing strategy implemented by the SEC. Of course, a key difference is that Iowa's strategy doesn't involve all the same negatives. We don't force guys off the roster ... they choose to leave. Doyle's development program is excellent ... however, it is also a definite selection pressure.
If you look at over-signing in the SEC ... that is how they manage to fit 5 classes worth of talent in 4 years. They operate as a semi-pro organization ... and cut scholarship players. The perceived talent gap has as much to do with quality depth as anything. Those teams that over-sign simply don't allow themselves to carry much perceived "dead weight." However, that also involves them giving up on many players way too early. Of course, their strategy also allows them to do much more risky prospecting ... because, in the end, they can just cut the guy if they want.
In the coming years, if Iowa can continue to win, I'll be curious to see how well the Hawks can continue to ramp up our recruiting ... while still keeping walk-ons hungry and feeling that there is still opportunity. I've always hypothesized that Iowa's post '05 fall from grace was attributable to BOTH Norm's health issues AND the fact that the '05 recruiting class "scared off" some of our developing guys ... thereby undercutting the usual depth that we are so dependent upon.
Thank you for articulating my point better than I. This system could be our answer to oversigning and it can be done in an ethical way.
These kids from small Midwestern schools know that we have a proven track record of rewarding walkons with scholarships if contribution is expected in the future. Very little preference is given to scholarship players when it comes to PT in the Iowa system as well.
I don't ever want to miss on a 4* receiver, a dynamic CB, a nasty LB from NJ, or a pass rushing DE to get a player like Jacob Newborg into the fold. Nothing against Newborg... he very well could become a major contributor, but I'd be willing to guess that he would have walked on. And if I'm wrong and we miss on him, we could certainly get someone else from 2A-3A Iowa football that's almost as good for this staff to mold and put into the league.
A lot of these small town kids from Iowa would love to pay for an opportunity to win a scholarship at Iowa after a year instead of languish at Iowa State on full scholarship or pay $45,000 to play at Central or Wartburg.
These kids from small Midwestern schools know that we have a proven track record of rewarding walkons with scholarships if contribution is expected in the future. Very little preference is given to scholarship players when it comes to PT in the Iowa system as well.
I don't ever want to miss on a 4* receiver, a dynamic CB, a nasty LB from NJ, or a pass rushing DE to get a player like Jacob Newborg into the fold. Nothing against Newborg... he very well could become a major contributor, but I'd be willing to guess that he would have walked on. And if I'm wrong and we miss on him, we could certainly get someone else from 2A-3A Iowa football that's almost as good for this staff to mold and put into the league.
A lot of these small town kids from Iowa would love to pay for an opportunity to win a scholarship at Iowa after a year instead of languish at Iowa State on full scholarship or pay $45,000 to play at Central or Wartburg.
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Iowa missed on Andrew Van Ginkel the first time around ... we didn't even offer. I don't know what the story is with respect to whether we offered him as a preferred walk-on. Similarly, we "missed" on Poock, of the Golden Gophers, who has been proving to have a successful career as a LB for them.
Anyhow, many Iowa fans have been wringing their collective hands about Van Ginkel - hoping that we don't miss him on this second go-around. Apparently, even though he's a guy who originally wanted to be a Hawk ... it's no lay-up for the Hawks to land his services this time around. The last I heard, he was considering between Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska. That would suggest that he's a kid who is worth a scholarship.
This leads to an interesting conundrum. Had Van Ginkel not lost his coaching staff at South Dakota, he likely wouldn't have considered transferring. Instead now, he'll be entering the 2017 season with 3 past seasons spent at low-tier schools - and his final 2 years with only 2 years of eligibility left. What is the lesson to be had? Right now he's viewed as a highly sought after JUCO recruit. However, perhaps did he make a mistake by not trying to walk-on at Iowa (or some other P5 school) earlier? Perhaps he could have been like Snyder ... put in one or two years on his own dime, then manage to earn a scholarship on a program where he's spent is whole career. Alternatively, was it Iowa's fault for not floating him a scholarship earlier?
Now, if we come back to Newborg, how do we know that he would have been satisfied walking-on at Iowa? A college education is not cheap - not everybody has the luxury of putting down their own cash just to walk-on. Iowa really liked the young man and offered him early ... he clearly had a lot of attributes that stuck out to them. Furthermore, the Hawks hadn't exactly been coming off a great string of seasons to build recruiting momentum from.
Given context, if you read my prior post, I stated that they'd go after the best recruits THEY COULD LAND. In leaner years, the coaches have to bank not just on obvious ability seen on tape ... they have to bank on the intangibles. Being a Hawkeye is not easy. A guy needs to be willing to work, to be tough, and to not set predetermined limitations on themselves. Just because a guy is from a small town in middle America ... just because some guy is an overlooked talent who is small for his position .... just because some guy is from a huge metro area from a school that has never been successful in football ... just because some guy either didn't have the money or the foreknowledge to go to a ton of camps to raise their recruiting profile ... etc ... doesn't imply that the guy isn't worth offering a scholarship IF the guy fits the program.
While I think that the Hawks ARE ramping up their recruiting ... I also think that the coaches have learned enough lessons from our past to KNOW that it is still critical for us to NOT lose our sense of identity. Part of the Hawkeye identity is built off of toughness, hard work, intensity, and smarts ... and the coaches will NOT pass up on guys who they feel are truly great fits for the program.
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