Iowa is capable of playing respectable defense

[Rudolph]

Howard made open shots in the first half. If a guy is making that many shots you get in his hip and don't leave him. Go watch Connors D in the first half and then the last 30 seconds on Howard. The last 30 seconds is how he should have been guarding him. Did you also notice they didn't make the shot in the last 30 seconds? It's amazing what happens to teams shooting when you actually play defense.

You want to translate a 30-second byte across an entire half? Connor, or anyone else for that matter, trying to "get in his hip" over even several consecutive possessions is going to be met with a counter. There's a little more to defending a player on a 5-man team than just a simple "get in his hip and don't leave him" strategy.

 

[Rudolph]

I agree that the main lineup used last night communicated very well. The problem with this team, and many of Fran teams, entirely lies with the backcourt. Mainly with consistency and reliability.

Let’s look at Tony, for example. We know he can’t be productive on both ends of the floor. He can be a lock down defender. However this year his offensive woes have him totally fooked in the head, to the point where he stops hustling down the floor. He looks/acts like he has checked out. Hence the reduced minutes.

If he can figure it out, and Sandfort hits around 40% of his 3s, this becomes a very dangerous team. Murray and Rebraca are going to do what they do. Iowa needs a scorer who can slash, drive, and finish.

Problem with Fran's teams is cultural. The program's culture is weighted towards offensive execution, defensive execution a lower priority. At least that's how it's always looked and that's what the college basketball world has pretty much always said about Fran's Iowa program. Not disagreeing with you, just adding that I don't think the problem is backcourt-specific at all.

Fran's had some teams that were better than others defensively. Woodbury's teams come to mind, anchored by his great linebacker-like communication, helping everyone in front of him, and then Gessell and Clemmons were both really good both on- and off-ball. And these guys were good out of the gate, meaning well-coached high school players bringing good habits and skills and understanding into the program.

Uthoff teams not bad sort of similar reasons, adding they just had a ton of length and a good amount of experience. Uthoff's Wisconsin experience couldn't have hurt him, too.

I've given up on Fran culturally addressing the annual team/program weakness (being primarily on the defensive end). But there are many aspects of Fran and his program that I can appreciate, and I'll root for the team nonetheless. Pretty much ditto these thoughts for Bluder's teams/program, too.

 

[littlez]

Problem with Fran's teams is cultural. The program's culture is weighted towards offensive execution, defensive execution a lower priority. At least that's how it's always looked and that's what the college basketball world has pretty much always said about Fran's Iowa program. Not disagreeing with you, just adding that I don't think the problem is backcourt-specific at all.

Fran's had some teams that were better than others defensively. Woodbury's teams come to mind, anchored by his great linebacker-like communication, helping everyone in front of him, and then Gessell and Clemmons were both really good both on- and off-ball. And these guys were good out of the gate, meaning well-coached high school players bringing good habits and skills and understanding into the program.

Uthoff teams not bad sort of similar reasons, adding they just had a ton of length and a good amount of experience. Uthoff's Wisconsin experience couldn't have hurt him, too.

I've given up on Fran culturally addressing the annual team/program weakness (being primarily on the defensive end). But there are many aspects of Fran and his program that I can appreciate, and I'll root for the team nonetheless. Pretty much ditto these thoughts for Bluder's teams/program, too.

I mean Bluder/ Fran teams are almost identical in almost every way, are they not? Pretty odd to be honest.

 

[KcTo]

Its token defense.

Its like the whole point is to get the possession over with without picking up a foul regardless of the quality of shot given up.

Those double teams on Dickenson were a joke. He was never uncomfortable for one second.

You can’t win in the long run trying to avoid fouls.

The teams that foul on every possession win in this league.

100% agree ”Playing to avoid fouls“

is this the same as playing to avoid time in Fran’s mandatory 2 and 3 foul jail?

 

[KcTo]

Yeah the D wasn’t good tonight. Gave up 1.15 points/possession.

100% agree… 1.15 is horrific defense

 

[like-woahh]

I was referencing the lineup from last night. It worked because none of the guys fell asleep or overreacted or were trying to make plays rather than just keep the shit in front of them and stick to rotations and all that.

When I coached I liked having the five guys on the floor who communicated the most/best and who were just on the same damn page. And that’s how that lineup struck me last night. Maybe that guy from that “I was courtside at carver” thread can speak to how well that lineup communicated versus other lineups. Give me a sec I’ll tag his butt in here. Right after I finish tagging your mom’s butt.

In regards to communication (especially defensively) I would say:

Rebraca
Murray
Dix/Ulis
Connor - Always talking
Sandfort - Always talking

Mulvey looked a little lost and out of position at times offensively, and with Perkins he just dribbles too much and the ball sticks. I feel like that lineup above had the best ball movement I've seen this year.

One thing that I think is more philosophical and not necessarily communication is how they switch on screens at the top of the key. If Michigan would have taken advantage of the multiple times Dickinson had a guard/forward on him, I think they would have won easily.

 

[KcTo]

That would probably be

Rebraca
Murray
Dix
Ummmm
Ummmm

Maybe Connor but he plays out of position so his “mistakes” are amplified.

Rebraca, Murray, CMac, Ogundele/Mulvey, Dix, would be the best defensive player rotation..

 

[like-woahh]

No, I'm not. Nobody on the Iowa team is held accountable for not playing defense. It's not Fran's philosophy and never has been.

Tony was benched because he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat and turned the ball over twice in his limited minutes.

Tony got benched immediately after a defensive lapse that lead to Michigan's 2nd 3 near the start of the half. They didn't show it on the broadcast, but him and Connor got into a bit over it (nothing crazy, normal teammate stuff) and Fran went nuclear in the huddle. Tony saw maybe 2-3 minutes after that.

Not necessarily saying you're wrong as Fran has always prioritized offense and hates turnovers, but in this instance it was after some fail defense. Probably didn't help he was playing pretty crappy prior to that.

 

[kzoohawk80]

You want to translate a 30-second byte across an entire half? Connor, or anyone else for that matter, trying to "get in his hip" over even several consecutive possessions is going to be met with a counter. There's a little more to defending a player on a 5-man team than just a simple "get in his hip and don't leave him" strategy.

That's what you got out of that really? Even the commentator was talking about how poorly Howard was defended in the first half.

 

[Packer54]

Second half gave up 36. I can live with that. First half they were pretty hot (especially one individual!). I’m not sure overall it was bad. Can it be better? Sure I guess but we also create many situations where we have low time of possession on offense which we all love to see. That creates more opportunities for the other team naturally. I think the challenge w the offense is not lose contact in the first half as you kind of bank on the other team wearing down a bit.

 

[Buffalo43]

Agree completely. I watched it again this morning. Wonder what connor was bsrking at Tony for.

Conner barks and bitches when he is being beat and the team is losing

 

[KcTo]

Conner barks and bitches when he is being beat and the team is losing

i thought it was Fran that barks and birches when he is being beat amd his team is losing?

 

[BrewHawk]

i thought it was Fran that barks and birches when he is being beat amd his team is losing?

Apple...tree.

 

[RocknRollface]

Well, Hunter only had 12 points on a handful of shots so I’d argue that vs him at least Iowa did what they wanted defensively.

Hunter is their leading scorer and they were clearly focused on not letting him control the paint. Unfortunately, that came at the expense of Jett having a career daday.

Well yeah, the double teams were so slow developing and half harted they were obviously trying to bait him to pass vs trying to turn him over which is what a double is supposed to do.

A double team has to be agressive for it to be a plus strategy over the course of a game.

You're going to give up some open shots and pick up some fouls but you have to get some TOs too.

Those doubles were a joke. They would have been better off just letting Dickinson shoot every time.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Michigan was smoking hot for 35 minutes. Not all those bombs were undefended. Howard's kid was unconscious. But how those arms get heavy in that last 5 minutes, especially for an 18-year-old.

 

[sober_teacher]

Well yeah, the double teams were so slow developing and half harted they were obviously trying to bait him to pass vs trying to turn him over which is what a double is supposed to do.

A double team has to be agressive for it to be a plus strategy over the course of a game.

You're going to give up some open shots and pick up some fouls but you have to get some TOs too.

Those doubles were a joke. They would have been better off just letting Dickinson shoot every time.

Disagree. To me it’s not about whether the double is aggressive, it’s whether guys are communicating around it. Effective use of doubles means it’s different guys so Hunter or whoever doesn’t always know where the second guy is coming from. But that means guys communicate away from the ball as to who is going to rotate when the double is sent. And sometimes of course you fake the double which is why it sometimes looks like the guy is hesitating.

When the effort/communication is there, Iowa plays good defense imo. Hard to maintain over 40 minutes of course, but they need to find ways to be more consistent.

 

[RocknRollface]

Disagree. To me it’s not about whether the double is aggressive, it’s whether guys are communicating around it. Effective use of doubles means it’s different guys so Hunter or whoever doesn’t always know where the second guy is coming from. But that means guys communicate away from the ball as to who is going to rotate when the double is sent. And sometimes of course you fake the double which is why it sometimes looks like the guy is hesitating.

When the effort/communication is there, Iowa plays good defense imo. Hard to maintain over 40 minutes of course, but they need to find ways to be more consistent.

Communication doesn't do anything if a guy can just make an easy pass to the open guy off the double.

It doesn't matter if he doesn't know where its coming from if you never make him uncomfortable. He has all the time he needs to just look around and figure out who's open.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Disagree. To me it’s not about whether the double is aggressive, it’s whether guys are communicating around it. Effective use of doubles means it’s different guys so Hunter or whoever doesn’t always know where the second guy is coming from. But that means guys communicate away from the ball as to who is going to rotate when the double is sent. And sometimes of course you fake the double which is why it sometimes looks like the guy is hesitating.

When the effort/communication is there, Iowa plays good defense imo. Hard to maintain over 40 minutes of course, but they need to find ways to be more consistent.

They should press and trap more. I think that defense makes the whole team more aggressive on defense when they switch out of the press.

The first time some team started rolling the ball 50 feet they'd get heavy pressure on the next possession. I just hate to see that done.

 

[RocknRollface]

It drives me crazy. As valuable as Connor is on the floor, he’s one of the worst offenders of playing lackadaisical defense.

That last 3 McDaniel made in regulation before Iowa made their comeback was pathetic defense. Connor sagged off McDaniel, went under a lazy screen, then made a half-assed attempt at closing out when the ball was already being released.

It drives me crazy. Fran doesn’t seem bothered, though, so whatever.

Everyone was going under screens that whole game.

Its like they were doing it on purpose.

I'm at a loss for how that happens.

 

[littlez]

90% of the Michigan 3’s were the result of guys going under screens. We defend a pick and roll like a bad high school team. Michigan is not a great offensive team. FYI either was /is Indiana. Solid college bball teams will carve you up if you don’t guard. It’s not about some guy having the game of his life. It happens because he’s playing Iowa and he’s getting wide open shot after wide open shot. This is also why when tournament basketball comes around good teams carve us up and beat us pretty easily. We’re a super fun team to watch on the offensive side of the ball. Unfortunately to be really good you need to play both ends.

 

[RocknRollface]

90% of the Michigan 3’s were the result of guys going under screens. We defend a pick and roll like a bad high school team. Michigan is not a great offensive team. FYI either was /is Indiana. Solid college bball teams will carve you up if you don’t guard. It’s not about some guy having the game of his life. It happens because he’s playing Iowa and he’s getting wide open shot after wide open shot. This is also why when tournament basketball comes around good teams carve us up and beat us pretty easily. We’re a super fun team to watch on the offensive side of the ball. Unfortunately to be really good you need to play both ends.

Its almost like they were doing it on purpose.

But that can't be, right?

I'm not sure which would be worse.

If they weren't supposed to be doing it and yet everyone was all game or if they were seriously doing it on purpose.

 

[CookyMonster]

We play matador defense to open up the flow of the game.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Fran's formative years were watching the 70s era NBA. We play a lot like an NBA team from that era. The game plan is instinctively based on outscoring the opponent in a high scoring game. The defense gets tighter in crunch time, also like an NBA team from the 70s.

Until last season Iowa looked like an NBA team. Almost always featured a big center (Gabe O, Woody, Luka, Filip-shorter but very much a traditional center). I like the style but the lack of defense is hard to watch sometimes.

 

[Rudolph]

That's what you got out of that really? Even the commentator was talking about how poorly Howard was defended in the first half.

I watched a chunk of the first half. Howard was making shots that were pretty well-defended. Was making shots against man and zone after defense had been stressed by post/paint touch or a reversal or two. Many of his buckets were against a zone. Why zone? Man all game vs Michigan and likely rebraca and mulvey and Murray are in foul trouble. Zone buys time for those guys dealing with michigans bigs as well as quickness in the backcourt that also leads to bigs in trouble having to help.

Look, I’m not arguing with you as much as trying to make it clear that sometimes a guy is just going to make shots. I have lamented Fran’s teams’ defensive woes for a decade now, so I’m with you. I just think the notion of “staying in his hip” all game is a bit naive and shortsighted.

Any good player, especially one comfortable creating their own shot as well as shooting clean off a pass, whether on the move or stand-still, if you play that guy the same way all game… good fücking luck with that.

ESPECIALLY when you have a skilled 7’ guy who can distribute and score. Trying to defend, essentially, four-on-four with a guy like that is pretty much impossible.

Now, if this was a Bluder team, knowing how she regularly throws a box-and-one on teams? Like, they regularly practice that D? Sure, give that a try for a stretch to disproof rhythm. But to just follow Howard around grade-school-style isn’t going to yield good results beyond a possession or two.

So, yes, it worked those last 30 seconds. Great. But the notion that this can extrapolate out to a full game? Silly.

 

[like-woahh]

I watched a chunk of the first half. Howard was making shots that were pretty well-defended. Was making shots against man and zone after defense had been stressed by post/paint touch or a reversal or two. Many of his buckets were against a zone. Why zone? Man all game vs Michigan and likely rebraca and mulvey and Murray are in foul trouble. Zone buys time for those guys dealing with michigans bigs as well as quickness in the backcourt that also leads to bigs in trouble having to help.

Look, I’m not arguing with you as much as trying to make it clear that sometimes a guy is just going to make shots. I have lamented Fran’s teams’ defensive woes for a decade now, so I’m with you. I just think the notion of “staying in his hip” all game is a bit naive and shortsighted.

Any good player, especially one comfortable creating their own shot as well as shooting clean off a pass, whether on the move or stand-still, if you play that guy the same way all game… good fücking luck with that.

ESPECIALLY when you have a skilled 7’ guy who can distribute and score. Trying to defend, essentially, four-on-four with a guy like that is pretty much impossible.

Now, if this was a Bluder team, knowing how she regularly throws a box-and-one on teams? Like, they regularly practice that D? Sure, give that a try for a stretch to disproof rhythm. But to just follow Howard around grade-school-style isn’t going to yield good results beyond a possession or two.

So, yes, it worked those last 30 seconds. Great. But the notion that this can extrapolate out to a full game? Silly.

You missed it before the edit, the initial post you quoted was, "You've never hooped have you?"



I'm such a narc.

 

[jonesy5960]

There were a few folks on here, I forget who they were, we'll call them friends of Fran, but they were arguing that it was to Iowa's advantage to give up baskets quickly in order to get more offensive possessions which is what they do best.

You really cannot make this shit up.

 

[Rudolph]

You missed it before the edit, the initial post you quoted was, "You've never hooped have you?"



I'm such a narc.

Really? Lol. Yeah, I never hooped at all.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Yeah, I never hooped at all.

Wade Lookingbill says you suck.

 

[Rudolph]

Wade Lookingbill says you suck.

I was the Gabbie Marshall of the grey team, bro.

Good shooter. Liked to pick up full court. Like to play denial defensive out on the perimeter. Probably a little too pretty to be hooping.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

I was the Gabbie Marshall of the grey team, bro.

Good shooter. Liked to pick up full court. Like to play denial defensive out on the perimeter. Probably a little too pretty to be hooping.

Rumor is Troy Skinner was your b!tch in those days.

 

[like-woahh]

Really? Lol. Yeah, I never hooped at all.

I was bummed when it got changed, I was looking forward to the exchange ;D

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Really impressed with how the Iowa defense picked up the energy after the Terps early run in the second half.

Hopefully they keep improving.

 

[Fran-Con-2]

Fran's formative years were watching the 70s era NBA. We play a lot like an NBA team from that era. The game plan is instinctively based on outscoring the opponent in a high scoring game. The defense gets tighter in crunch time, also like an NBA team from the 70s.

Until last season Iowa looked like an NBA team. Almost always featured a big center (Gabe O, Woody, Luka, Filip-shorter but very much a traditional center). I like the style but the lack of defense is hard to watch sometimes.

***Sometimes***

 

[HawkLogic]

90% of the Michigan 3’s were the result of guys going under screens. We defend a pick and roll like a bad high school team. Michigan is not a great offensive team. FYI either was /is Indiana. Solid college bball teams will carve you up if you don’t guard. It’s not about some guy having the game of his life. It happens because he’s playing Iowa and he’s getting wide open shot after wide open shot. This is also why when tournament basketball comes around good teams carve us up and beat us pretty easily. We’re a super fun team to watch on the offensive side of the ball. Unfortunately to be really good you need to play both ends.

Fran loves offense...just seems too much. There are times he trades off for marginally better offense at large expense to defense.

Getting the tradeoff correct has seemed to be Fran's problem. The Garza teams were off the charts on offense...but meh defensively and they had regular season success...but not so much in the NCAA tourney.

We've all seen the stats the average Final Four team’s offense ranks around No. 39 in the country, and their defense near No. 55.

 

[sober_teacher]

Fran loves offense...just seems too much. There are times he trades off for marginally better offense at large expense to defense.

Getting the tradeoff correct has seemed to be Fran's problem. The Garza teams were off the charts on offense...but meh defensively and they had regular season success...but not so much in the NCAA tourney.

We've all seen the stats the average Final Four team’s offense ranks around No. 39 in the country, and their defense near No. 55.

The Garza teams were flawed because the guards weren’t great on-ball defenders. His senior year especially, that team should have been a zone-heavy team, which would have helped cover up the defensive weaknesses tk some extent.

 

[ObeseMuffins]

The Garza teams were flawed because the guards weren’t great on-ball defenders. His senior year especially, that team should have been a zone-heavy team, which would have helped cover up the defensive weaknesses tk some extent.

I’m pretty sure we were zone heavy. I believe our defense got better when we went man and got the second seed.

 

[sober_teacher]

I’m pretty sure we were zone heavy. I believe our defense got better when we went man and got the second seed.

Not the least of the reasons we got boat raced by Oregon was that our guards got exploited by their quicker and more athletic guards. We saw that everytime we played teams with good guards.

 

[littlez]

Not the least of the reasons we got boat raced by Oregon was that our guards got exploited by their quicker and more athletic guards. We saw that everytime we played teams with good guards.

They blew by us at every position. While Garza worked his ass off at getting better he was still playing with cement shoes on defense. Incredible offensive player and hard worker but could not guard anyone in the pick and roll. Was not just our guards.

 

[sober_teacher]

They blew by us at every position. While Garza worked his ass off at getting better he was still playing with cement shoes on defense. Incredible offensive player and hard worker but could not guard anyone in the pick and roll. Was not just our guards.

No question, but you can protect one guy, especially a center who control the paint. Having guards that struggled to stay in front of any guard with some quickness totally exposed the whole thing.

Think it was Miller who was all but begging Fran to commit full time to a zone defense to try and cover for some of of the weaknesses.