Iowa Men 17th in the B1G this season???
- Thread starter Franisdaman
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I was a season ticket holder during those 3 years with my son and one of his friends, tell me about it.
Fran may not have gotten Iowa to the second week of the Big Ten yet, but the seasons as a whole are so much better then under Todd. I still hold hope that Fran will get it done and then possibly leave on his own, but I know that's not the opinion of most of you.
Fran came to Iowa and recruited players to Iowa that wanted to come here, developed and for the most part stayed and graduated from Iowa. If Iowa never goes as far as some of our fans crave under Fran, I don't think it will be because Fran didn't try. The portal and the lack of NIL will be the main culprit.
I know Fran's is old school and coaching at this level may have passed him by, but I think he will know when it's time to leave which could be sooner then later, just hope that next year goes better then this year did and sends him off on a high note. He deserves that....
Just like Hilton was just a few short years ago in their historic zero conference win season. All about money now, School has absolutely nothing to do with the success of a program. As far as money goes, Iowa can absolutely afford to fire Fran. Iowa is swimming in athletic revenue. Can't afford to buy a team but damn sure can afford a coach. Two entirely different animals these days.
Fran has gotten his life changing pay day. The odds of next year being better than this year are slim to none.
He has already received more than he deserves in the number of years he has been allowed to coach at Iowa with mediocre results. Factor in his behavior on the court and in the community, he deserves nothing more.
On April 10th he had us 17th in the B1G.
On May 30th, with Payton returning, he still has us at 17th in the B1G.
Wow.
Regardless of Payton returning, what B1G team(s) do you honestly see Iowa being ahead of? 17th may be too generous. From what we know this simply is not a very good team.
when you look at our 12 scholarship roster, do you really think we are that bad?
Possible Starting 5:
6’3” PG Drew Thelwell (SR)
6'5" SG Josh Dix (JR)
6'7" F Payton Sandfort (SR)
6’7” PF Seydou Traore (SO)
6'10" C Owen Freeman (SO)
Next 5 off the bench:
6'0" PG Brock Harding (SO)
6'7" F Cooper Koch (FR)
6'7" F Pryce Sandfort (SO)
6'8" PF Ladji Dembele (SO)
6'8" PF Chris Tadjo (FR)
Other 2 scholarship players:
6'11" C Riley Mulvey (JR)
6'9" F/C Even Brauns (SR)
Some of you folks are hilarious. Based on some of the posts it appears many feel the Iowa men’s roster is full of 12U house league 12th round picks. Do I expect Iowa to threaten to win the Big Ten? No, but I feel safe to say they will finish ahead of many teams Andy Katz has picked above us.
17th is a fair prediction based on that roster and experience, but historically Fran’s teams with lower expectations have overachieved. I wouldn’t be shocked to see them finish in the 8-12 range.
He probably expected Payton to return in his initial prediction
I think this will be a very good Iowa team next year. Who don’t you see Iowa ahead of? We have 3 guys in Sandfort, Dix and Freeman who will likely be on the All Big 1st, 2nd or 3rd team. We’ve added experience and depth at point and some athleticism on the front line. If we don’t finish in the top 5 I’ll be disappointed.
It’s tough when teams like Rutgers and Indiana are spending (or someone is spending) millions next year for guys to play 1 or maybe 2 years. Fran did a decent job in the portal, for what he could spend. Going to miss Perkins, but otherwise made some solid upgrades.
BirdistheWord
HB Heisman
That’s fair. We do have a lot of unknowns. We do have some intriguing young players too. With that said 17/18 seems pretty bad for a Fran team. It could happen certainly but just Dix, Freeman and Sandfort should get us out of the bottom third.
Prepare to be disappointed.
I don't see them finishing 17th out of 18. 10-12 seems more likely.
Top 5? Nope.
BirdistheWord
HB Heisman
I hope you are right but based on what I know and see, this is a middle of the pack team at best. Frans teams tend to perform better than on paper and I doubt we finish in bottom third of league. I am banking on middle third .
Iowa basketball's Fran, Margaret McCaffery raise nearly $131,000 for AYA Cancer Program
Since coming to Iowa in 2010, Margaret and Fran McCaffery have raised more than $1.25 million for cancer research and care.
Iowa Hawkeyes and Coach McCaffery visit Hope Lodge for Coaches vs. Cancer charity
Margaret McCaffery to receive American Cancer Society’s distinguished St. George Award
Yup - the McCaffery's are REAL pieces of shit in the community.
Jesus Christ people. Just because someone gets mad during basketball games does not mean he or she is a terrible person in real life.
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"Who don’t you see Iowa ahead of?" lol are you kidding me with this...?
Most likely:
Purdue
Indiana
Michigan State
UCLA
Michigan
Ohio State
Maryland
Oregon
Illinois
and probably:
Rutgers
USC
Wisconsin
Washington
And maybe:
Northwestern
Nebraska
This is not anywhere close to a top 5 roster. You are completely out of your mind.
This exact core of 3 plus Perkins, Bowen, Krikke and Patrick was good enough to finish 8th in the league, miss the tourney and lose to freaking Utah in the second round of the NIT.
Now you're going to subtract Perkins, Pat and Krikke and replace Perkins with a dude who averaged 10 ppg at Morehead Freaking State, and pat and Krikke with a 11 ppg soph from Manhattan freaking College....and with a straight face call that an "upgrade"? lol
You're deluded.
You're one of those fans who every year thinks we have 5 guys who will be all big ten but can't name 2 players on any other team in the league, let alone know how good any of them are. lol
I really don't care to look but I would conservatively guess that you picked Iowa to finish in the top half of the league last year or probably even top 5, and was certain that we were a lock for the tourney. Right?
I'm certainly not going to vouch for Andy Katz because he's terrible but analytics engines like Torvik currently have us at 16th in the league. So....who's crazier -- a guy who projects us as 17th or a guy who projects us as top 5?
C'mon man...
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Fran will surprise with Payton coming back. I’ll go out on a limb and say the team ties for 7th place regular season.
BirdistheWord
HB Heisman
Watch out. That limb doesn’t look particularly strong…
BirdistheWord
HB Heisman
We will be better defensively - PMac and Krikke were terrible. It could take a while to rev this thing up. Likely an 9th-12th place finish
Perkins is the only real loss imo. Patrick leaving will make us better by subtraction. Krikke was a sieve on defense. I think Dembele should take a step forward and Freeman is a proven commodity. Dix is gearing for a breakout season and we have Sandfort back who hopefully shows more consistency in his final year. I don't think this is a top 5 team, but there is zero chance this is a 17th place team. There's lots to complain about with Fran, but finishing near the bottom of the league is really never on the menu with him. We'll probably finish somewhere in the middle.
The fact that you think losing Krikke, Bowen and PMac is a negative tells me everything I need to know about your analysis.
Let's say I believe you (I don't). What do you mean by "better"?
We finished the season with a DER ranked in the 150s (157 in kenpom, 152 in Torvik). What does better look like to you?
120th?
50th?
Top 20?
.. .Because in order for it to make a significant difference in win total, we're going to have to be in the top 75 (at least).
Do you honestly see that happening just because Krikke and pmac are now gone? Again, I have zero reason to believe this. Neither of the transfers: 1) are Big Ten proven; or 2) were particularly defensive standouts at Morehead State or Manhattan -- both of which are a significant step down in competition and physicality.
Just sounds like baseless hope/cope to me.
It tells me that we have lost significant scoring that is not going to be replaced by two dudes that averaged 10 ppg at moorhead State and Manhattan college.
Literally LMAO that you think losing Perkins - a second team all big ten player -- and replacing him with Thelwell is an upgrade.
Thelwell against B1G competition last year:
Purdue -- 8 in a 30 pt blowout
Illinois -- 8 in a 20 pt blowout
Penn St -- 7 in 20 pt blowout
Indiana -- 9 in 1 pt loss
This is the difference maker that's going to push us from an NIT team to top 5 in the B1G?
L O freaking L.
Bowen was (sort of) Big Ten proven guard depth. He's gone. Who did we replace him with? No one. How is that a net positive? How?Who did we replace Big Ten experienced PMac with? No one. How is that a net positive? How?
Please explain what you're seeing with your especially keen basketball mind that everyone else seems to be missing.
Go ahead. We're all waiting....
P.S. pretty sure you were one of the posters predicting that PMac would be all big ten before last season. Now he's an addition by subtraction guy? We'll be better getting rid of him and replacing him with absolutely nobody? LMAO.
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You seem a little insecure.
Pretty simple. You’re ignoring a 3 player nucleus of Sandfort, Dix and Freeman that is as good as any 3 in the league. Perkins is a loss, but Thelwell is a 5th year senior point guard from an NCAA tournament team last year. Harding has shown a lot of promise as well. Our problems last year were lack of defense, athleticism and rebounding. The new guys and progression in players like Dembele will alleviate those issues. Subtracting Krikke and PMac solves a lot of problems.
And I think you vastly overestimate the strength of the Big. A lot of mediocre teams, bad coaches and heavy losses to the NBA/transfers.
I'm not ignoring anything.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that we had EXACTLY the same "3 player nucleus" last year plus Perkins. They were an NIT team.
We lost an all big ten guard and replaced him with a guard from Morehead State who did the following against big ten competition last season:
Purdue -- 8 in a 30 pt blowout
Illinois -- 8 in a 20 pt blowout
Penn St -- 7 in 20 pt blowout
Indiana -- 9 in 1 pt loss
lol
Sorry.... that and "player progression" and "Harding showed a lot of promise" is not pushing this team from NIT to "top 5 in the Big Ten. It's pure delusion.
As far "bad coaches" and "weak teams" in the B1G....
Please make a list of big ten coaches who are worse than Fran.
I would also tell you to look at the rosters of the other B1G programs and tell me which of those are worse than Iowa's but you obviously would have zero clue how to do that, so I'll just say this...you need at least 5 players on the court. Three won't cut it, my man.
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From the following list of "bad coaches", please select the coaches who are worse than Fran McCaffrey.
Dana Altman
Tom Izzo
Matt Painter
Eric Musselman
Mick Cronin
Dusty May
Brad Underwood
Fred Hoiberg
Chris Collins
Greg Gard
Kevin Willard
Ben Johnson
Mike Rhoades
Steve Pikiell
Danny Sprinkle
Mike Woodson
Jake Diebler
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Fair, but it’s also nowhere near his worst, which is what 17th place would likely mean.
Idk about top 5, at least until I get a chance to see some of these other teams next year, but I expect Iowa to be in ncaa tourney next year. I think our conference schedule is favorable for the first time in a few a years - home and aways are nebby, Wisconsin and northwestern if I recall; compared to having to play Illinois/purdue twice last year for example.
Thank god all you amateur prognosticator are just that, not one of you can accurately predict how Iowa is going to finish and are just blowing smoke. If it makes you feel good, so be it. Iowa has never had a point guard like Brock Harding. You all make it sound like he's the next Austin Ash, but Brock is one of the best facilitators in college basketball and will make every other player on Iowa's roster better.
I'm not going to predict where Iowa will finish the season, and an injury could change everything, but it won't be as low as all of you are making it out as fact, even before you've seen one game played.
It's going to be fun to watch all of you make an about face this winter, I'm looking forward to it and if my belief in Brock doesn't pan out, it's still just a game and I'll still watch every game. It's not life or death
I'm not going to predict where Iowa will finish the season, and an injury could change everything, but it won't be as low as all of you are making it out as fact, even before you've seen one game played.
It's going to be fun to watch all of you make an about face this winter, I'm looking forward to it and if my belief in Brock doesn't pan out, it's still just a game and I'll still watch every game. It's not life or death
It seems hyperbolic to use terms like “completely out of your mind” and “ delusional” when you can say things like “I have a VERY different opinion” or “I don’t think that’s close” and then go on to state your reasoning.
Your assessment of next year’s team might be right or it might not……all of us are just guessing.
I think you provide good evidence for your opinion….. but it might not be 100% accurate.
Michigan has a new coach and a new roster….Ohio State coach looked great after he took over last year but it’s his first off season and he’s not proven he can continue that. We barely lost to Maryland so that doesn’t seem insurmountable.
Indiana…..lots of talent but I’m not sure about the coaching. The difference with them last year v Iowa was their center and he’s gone right?
I don’t know enough about UCLA and USC rosters…..how much turnover? How will they handle the travel and all the new opponents?
I seriously don’t know about those rosters so again, maybe you’re right. I would love to hear about those rosters and any other information about those teams.
Conversely Nw and Nebraska are no joke anymore…..
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BirdistheWord
HB Heisman
I like the pushback, good discussion. I will say though, I never promised that this improvement would make a meaningful difference. My argument largely stems from all the Andy Katz and similar predictions and discussions that Iowa will finish 17th in the B1G. I believe we will almost certainly not finish in the upper third. But, also believe with our nucleus of Dix/Payton/Freeman that we will likely finish better than 17th.
I also believe that we should be better on defense with an uptick in athleticism and effort. This includes projections based on current players getting more minutes as well as newcomers vs subtractions of Krikke, PMac, Perkins and Bowen.
Individual defense is a tricky variable to quantify, but my eyes don’t lie having watched PMac and Krikke. They both had poor lateral quickness, were both well below average on ball defenders and PMac was notorious for not putting in a consistent effort.
I will admit that losing Perkins muddies the equation as he was one of our better defenders, especially at generating steals. He could be inconsistent at times but will be missed.
Bowen only played part of the season so is weighted less but found him to be underwhelming as a defender. Not bad but not effective or gritty either.
I believe Dembele is an upgrade on the defensive end vs. PMac or Krikke. He has better size/strength and quickness.
The two transfers should be additive in that they bring athleticism and some experience. Not over promising here, and admittedly have only seen them play a few games. Morehead State was better than Iowa from an adjusted defense standpoint and Manhattan worse. Not a ton to take away from that.
I am banking on Freeman continuing to blossom as he was one our best defenders last year. He will have to stay out of foul trouble.
Tadjo and Koch are harder to predict but I feel like our depth last year was both poor and very limited athletically. These two will at least bring a bit more athleticism and seem like guys that put in consistent effort. They will make mistakes given they are freshman.
In the end even if we were arguable the same from a defensive standpoint it still supports my point that I have a hard time seeing this as a 17th out of 18 ranked team.
I think we will be better on defense slightly, with better team athleticism, quickness and hopefully effort. Stronger depth.
Perkins mentally checked out of about 1/2 the games last year. Krikke could not guard his own shadow, and was one of the worst big man rebounders in the league (probably the worst). PMAC brought nothing
Going forward...
And regarding Indiana loading up on talent, just remember that Woodson is a moron... he will find a way to eff it up.
Going forward...
- Freeman will learn how to stay out of foul trouble
- We are taking a big leap forward athletically with Tadjo, Traore and Thelwell
- I expect good incremental improvement from Dix, Dembele and Harding (maybe 1 of 3 will make a large leap)
- No concern at all in losing Perkins' offense. Fran's teams always find a way to score.
And regarding Indiana loading up on talent, just remember that Woodson is a moron... he will find a way to eff it up.
