Can't wait for opening day...best day of the year! Get to see my friends back in the home state, tailgate and take in a Great college football experience. It's a privilege. When I walk through the tunnel to our seats, my wife gets the same Rudy line every year. "This is the most beautiful site these eyes have ever seen".
And much of the time they don't know anymore about many of the players then you or I do. THATS the point. These analysts have become an industry all their own. If you actually think they can provide an adequate basis for a difference between some kid playing 6A ball in California and 3A ball in Iowa then I don't know what to tell you. If you think they can REALLY evaluate the 10's of thousands of kids who play high school football every year and get a real picture of where each player is in his current maturity, and development, sorry but thats BS. Sure the top, top guys stand out for the most part, but there are kids all over the country, many in "fly over states like Iowa" that have never really been an evaluated to any real extent. Some of them don't attend many camps either. Why to you think that Iowa has had so much success with 2 and 3 star or walk on players at Iowa? It's not because Kirk is a genius or some kind of wizard. Its because he realized years ago he could find these kids who had not been evaluated properly, or had not had the exposure, and some of them had just as much potential to be great players as some of the kids who had all the exposure. Take a guy like CDJ as an example, and there have been others. Dudes like LVN. Freak athletes who went under the radar, and then when they burst on the scene, people are like "where did this dude come from. Its because these analysts can't possibly evaluate all the talent thats out there. Some kids also don't mature as fast. Thats why I'm more concerned with what these players become, then when some analyst guru says Joe blow is the top player at his position in the country, or lets say he's the number 15 DE, when they can't possibly know that.
“And much of the time they don't know anymore about many of the players then you or I do. THATS the point.”
Problem with High School coaches is they are always overvaluing kids because they are invested in seeing that kid get a good scholarship offer. Film splices are when the kid does something above normal ability.
Agreed, and unless the op is part of that circle then he probably doesn’t know more than the people who do talk to those people. It’s alway fun to talk to coaches about players on other teams or they have seen at camps.
My point is there are 1000's of kids that they never get evaluated fully. To me that makes the entire process suspect at best. Thats my point. As I said, regardless of what ever process they use for them to say this DE is the number 18 in the country and this one is number 32 is ridiculous given the number of players that never get evaluated (and just how do you seperate #18 from #21), or go to many camps out of choice or because they committ early like Graves who committed as a freshman in high school or CDJ who was a freak athlete in everything he took part in high school. What do you think CDJ's actual ranking would have been had he been more thoroughly evaluated, or if Graves had camped more or entertained offers from BAMA or OSU. CDJ comes for a small consolidated school in bumf--- Iowa and doesn't do many camps, so he slides under the radar, like so many guys we've recruited who became WAY better players then their supposed ranking. On top of that we've seen so many times where a guys ranking changes based on WHO he gets offers from. So say a guy commits to Iowa and he's a three star or a low 4 star, but if he gets an offer from OSU or Georgia he's a high 4 star or a 5 star? Here's the thing to consider, (its the SAME player). You don't think that calls into question just how subjective the entire process is?
You are spot on. One other piece to add to this is that high school coaches are not always motivated to do what is best for the kid, however not in a malicious way. The coaches have to make a living too and they are judged by wins and losses. I have an example in my own home with my son. He is 15, 6'4", 230, very solidly built, and pretty quick for his size. I would guess he will end up around 6'5" or 6'6" and could see him easily go to 250-260. He would be a huge mismatch as a tight end right now and he is better in space on defense like MLB or DE. But, because of his size and athleticism and the lack thereof with that with other kids, he is going to be starting at left guard this year in varsity as a sophomore. Nobody will notice him there, he will just disappear and won't be on anyone's radar. But I can see that he would go to a camp next summer and run and lift and these schools are going to be like, whoa, where did this kid come from?
You aren’t wrong on those ideas. Your original point was
You will be surprised at what coaches will see. If he wants to play in college put the hudl tape together, get him into skill appropriate camps and he will get seen. If your hs coach is connected at all he will know the right camps to attend. Don’t need to attend them all, just the right ones. Keep us posted on how your son does
I'll admit that part of my statement was flawed. I've always just thought the whole recruiting expert thing when it comes to ranking players is so flawed that it makes it hard to take seriously. We've all watched guys to commit to Iowa and then seen their ranking fall, or players get an offer from Blue blood U, and seen their ranking jump up. I realize that teams have a better chance of being successful with better players, (thats a no brainer). There just seems to be too many instances where the "science" they use, (much of which is just word of mouth ) is flawed to it's core.
Thank you for the advice! I don't want to be a nuisance or meddling dad at all so I wanted to see him just get a bunch of snaps this year on both sides of the ball. Then I wanted to get him into the camps you are discussing. Question, do you or anyone know if there is a way to get him into an Iowa camp for a rising junior? Even though we are in NC and I am the only one of us that has lived in Iowa, all of us are Iowa fans.
Have a great sophomore year. The network for coaches is smaller than you would think. His hs coach should be able to make that connection for him.
The commercial recruiting services are biased. High school football players from Southern states and kids who play in large urban/suburban schools tend to get more favorable ratings.
Cam Buffington from last year is a recent example that played 8 man.
The kids in the south, large urban areas, specialized in one sport from an early age, fit the size mold, etc. will always rate higher in the rankings. They also may have been ‘red shirted’ growing up and may be peaked out athletically as seniors in high school. It is a very inexact science. That wasn’t really what sparked the conversation. It was the claim that the people that work on these things for a living don’t know anymore about these rankings than the run of the mill fan. They do. Doesn’t mean they are good/great at their job. It just means they know more.
This narrative just isn't true anymore. Cody Fox is from East Buc a class A or 1A school based on the year. Cooper Dejean from OABIG is either a 1A or 2A school based on the year. Elite athletes camp at Iowa, Laporta's high school numbers were impressive, and that is a town close to St. Louis. What Iowa excels at is development, and the kids that buy into that generally produce great numbers.
While I don't disagree that you called out that part of my original statement, go back and reread what you just posted. I agree totally, and it has alot to do with my point. You posted, "its a very inexact science", and "that doesn't mean their good at their job". Add in the fact that as you said, a player may have already matured to the point where there is little growth potential. Now add all these things together, and tell me how many businesses would 1). operate with flawed data, and 2) not really be all that good at their jobs. and yet be taken seriously? These recruiting services are there to drive interest in the fan bases. The rest of it is for the most part a crap shoot.
No need to take them seriously if you don’t want to.
This is tedious, so I'll let it go. We both agree that its an inexact science with incomplete information. If you can't see how THAT in itself waters down their supposed "knowledge" of the topic then I just don't know what else to say. Your saying they know more, and yet much of what they "know" isn't totally factual or thoroughly vetted information. I mean if they say Joe blow in this state is the top DB in this high school class, and they've never rated say a CDJ and he's actually a better player then their info is crap because Joe blow isn't the top player.....
If it’s just guessing then throw out your rankings and start cashing the checks.
Okay then. I already said that my saying they don't know more then me was a stretch, yet you want to belabor the point. That doesn't change the fact that there's so much they don't know and yet people on these boards act like its gospel right from the good book or something, and that simply isn't the case. Have a good day.....
Yes, the system may be “flawed” a bit in the sense SOME guys are overlooked and / or underrated (Desmond King etc). But King’s three-star ranking may have appropriate for THAT time in his life…he then went to Iowa and was coached / developed.
To be more accurate, King was considered a borderline P5 player due to his measurable, but what set him apart then, in college, and to this day was his innate football sense, and that is probably the biggest blind spot in these recruiting rankings. Coach Ferentz and staff make a living by finding those guys that get missed, due to having good enough athletic ability, but outstanding football IQ. Sometimes, it takes a few years to get to that athletic ability. At this point, the coaches really understand what they are looking for and how to find it.
That’s cool and stuff and I DO respect we find guys other programs don’t even recruit and wished they would have, but, “making a living” off having a roster mostly full of “guys that get missed” leads us to what….?
I agree Playing D at Iowa, assuming you perform, gets you plenty noticed by the NFL. Yet you seem to imply it is the only logical choice if that is your goal which I don’t agree with. I am no Miami fan, but to say going there if you want to go to the pros is a bad choice doesn’t pass the sniff test. As if Miami is terrible at getting guys to the pros…
