Iowa recruiting thread.

[MitchLL]

I don’t know about that. We had nothing behind Ayala until now and our successor for him also bailed on us (Jesuroga). But like I said, I don’t know.

Teske is a bit up in the air right now from what someone told me a few weeks back. Last year took a toll.

197 is a bigger need than 184.

This gambling info needs to speed up so that if there are lengthy suspensions involved, the coaches have more time to compensate.

I fear the 23/24 season could be ugly.

 

[Inthecircle]

Isn’t that what he said?




It has been? Where? I don’t read every thread. Especially not these days.



These are certainly two guys who thrived in the Iowa room. Others have not.

I do find it interesting that we entered the off-season with a treasure trove of NIL money, landed a solid transfer, struck out on the big ones, and actually managed to get worse. It’s almost impressive.

Unfortunately I have heard the same rumors about Ayala. Him being injured again makes since. We havent seen him wrestle freestyle at all this summer and he's usually active in the summers.

I question whether that will be the case come August. Hopefully it will be.

There is your injury post in early May; and your response to Bob Nichols about Ayala currently being on the Iowa Roster.
You are now uncertain about Teske as well, based on what you’ve heard? So you think we could lose both?

 

[SPOONER]

There is your injury post in early May; and your response to Bob Nichols about Ayala currently being on the Iowa Roster.
You are now uncertain about Teske as well, based on what you’ve heard? So you think we could lose both?

I know nothing about any injures. That post says someone has heard rumors.

 

[MVPFAN]

Yeah, if you look at FLO's 2022 big board, in OCT' 2021 he was ranked #10 p4p. Final in May 2022 he was #33. All it takes at that level is a couple losses to slide from top 10 to 25+ in the rankings. The talent is certainly there.

He seemed to fade quite a bit over the last part of his highschool career. Not a homerun pickup, maybe he jumps a level again but for now It gives us much needed depth where we had zero.

I think Carl is a much better coach than the Brands; the titles alone speak for themselves. Here’s a few examples off the top of my head of head to head comparisons.
RBY/Desanto- Desanto beats him the first year they wrestle then RBY blows by him due to his one arm behind the back game plan. RBY’s teammates weren’t coming up with that game plan for him. Somehow brands and Desanto were never able to figure out how to capitalize on that. All the while Desanto had a much better training partner in Lee and Eirman.

Kerk/Cass- Cass beats him fairly easy the first couple times they wrestle and then Kerk slowly catches him and had now completely left Cass in his dust all the while Cass hasn’t evolved whatsoever from when he got here.

Evans/Brown/Kokesh/Storly/Perry- Early in their careers the matches were all coin flips. Out of high school Evans could ride the piss outta anyone; by the end of his career he couldn’t stay on the horse ya ride at the mall. He slowly but surely fell to the bottom of that pack of guys.

You can blame it on training partners all you want but at the end of the day whose fault is it that there’s a lack of good training partners? It falls on the coach to get good training partners in the room; so yes Cael is that much better of a coach and no someone going from John smiths wrestling room to ours isn’t gaining some huge advantage.

RBY was the better recruit and better athlete. ADS manhandled him some the first couple matches. Once he filled out he was better. Similar thing with Kerk and Cass except Kerk had an injury issue the first year in addition to being a bit undersized weight wise. Kerk got healthy, gained weight and Cass lost weight. Kerk the superior recruit and athlete just better

 

[12tdsaw]

Isn’t that what he said?




It has been? Where? I don’t read every thread. Especially not these days.



These are certainly two guys who thrived in the Iowa room. Others have not.

I do find it interesting that we entered the off-season with a treasure trove of NIL money, landed a solid transfer, struck out on the big ones, and actually managed to get worse. It’s almost impressive.

actually i picked those 2 as guys to help voinavich get better,i wasn't thinking of them as transfers who got better. both were pretty solid at their previous schools

 

[rossel 33]

I think Carl is a much better coach than the Brands; the titles alone speak for themselves. Here’s a few examples off the top of my head of head to head comparisons.
RBY/Desanto- Desanto beats him the first year they wrestle then RBY blows by him due to his one arm behind the back game plan. RBY’s teammates weren’t coming up with that game plan for him. Somehow brands and Desanto were never able to figure out how to capitalize on that. All the while Desanto had a much better training partner in Lee and Eirman.

Kerk/Cass- Cass beats him fairly easy the first couple times they wrestle and then Kerk slowly catches him and had now completely left Cass in his dust all the while Cass hasn’t evolved whatsoever from when he got here.

Evans/Brown/Kokesh/Storly/Perry- Early in their careers the matches were all coin flips. Out of high school Evans could ride the piss outta anyone; by the end of his career he couldn’t stay on the horse ya ride at the mall. He slowly but surely fell to the bottom of that pack of guys.

You can blame it on training partners all you want but at the end of the day whose fault is it that there’s a lack of good training partners? It falls on the coach to get good training partners in the room; so yes Cael is that much better of a coach and no someone going from John smiths wrestling room to ours isn’t gaining some huge advantage.

Hogwash. If Carl was a "much better coach" why didn't the results happen for him at ISU?

What Carl does at PSU is get many more top tier recruits. Than anybody.

Your comparing Kerk and Cass? Kerk was the #1 p4p recruit in his year, Cass wasn't in the top 10, and was 3rd in his Hwt weight class. Though the spread wasn't as wide, coming out of HS, RBY was ranked higher than DeSanto.

 

[WEH8ST8HAWK]

What Carl does at PSU is get many more top tier recruits. Than anybody. (THAN EVERYBODY ELSE COMBINED)

 

[mcpat]

He seemed to fade quite a bit over the last part of his highschool career. Not a homerun pickup, maybe he jumps a level again but for now It gives us much needed depth where we had zero.
RBY was the better recruit and better athlete. ADS manhandled him some the first couple matches. Once he filled out he was better. Similar thing with Kerk and Cass except Kerk had an injury issue the first year in addition to being a bit undersized weight wise. Kerk got healthy, gained weight and Cass lost weight. Kerk the superior recruit and athlete just better

Not disagreeing; adding context. DeSanto was #17 on the 2017 Big Board and RBY was #12 on the 2018 Big Board.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Hogwash. If Carl was a "much better coach" why didn't the results happen for him at ISU?

What Carl does at PSU is get many more top tier recruits. Than anybody.

Your comparing Kerk and Cass? Kerk was the #1 p4p recruit in his year, Cass wasn't in the top 10, and was 3rd in his Hwt weight class. Though the spread wasn't as wide, coming out of HS, RBY was ranked higher than DeSanto.

Recruiting is a big part of coaching , so yeah , he's much, much better than anyone else at the moment.

 

[Libertylover]

Recruiting is a big part of coaching , so yeah , he's much, much better than anyone else at the moment.

It was the synergy between him, the school location, and the big donor that got things rolling, now you add in some recent history of success to sell, and being able to get the kids money legally, and you have a monster.

 

[TS568]

Hogwash. If Carl was a "much better coach" why didn't the results happen for him at ISU?

What Carl does at PSU is get many more top tier recruits. Than anybody.

Your comparing Kerk and Cass? Kerk was the #1 p4p recruit in his year, Cass wasn't in the top 10, and was 3rd in his Hwt weight class. Though the spread wasn't as wide, coming out of HS, RBY was ranked higher than DeSanto.

Cael’s ISU teams finished NCAA finished 3rd, 5th and 2nd in his 3 years. Not too bad really.

 

[MitchLL]

125 Ayala over Terukina 3-0
133 Teske over Redding 6-0
141 Woods over Frost 10-0 (Swiderski will RS)
149 Paniro over Voinovich 10-3
157 Chittum over Siebrecht 10-6
165 Carr over PK 10-9
174 Brands over Gaitan 13-9
184 Feldkamp over Assad 13-12
197 Yonger over Franklin 13-15
285 Cass over ??? 19-15

That’s before we know exactly what is happening with the gambling stuff for both of us

Last winter, Enchmendia was wrestling through the CRTC, I believe.

I think there might be a chance Dresser is desperate enough to bring him onto the team for 23/24.

If that happens, Clone fans better not say a word about Iowa recruiting the Clan.

 

[MVPFAN]

Last winter, Enchmendia was wrestling through the CRTC, I believe.

I think there might be a chance Dresser is desperate enough to bring him onto the team for 23/24.

If that happens, Clone fans better not say a word about Iowa recruiting the Clan.

It's not even a secret they have been trying to get him eligible to join the team.

 

[MitchLL]

It's not even a secret they have been trying to get him eligible to join the team.

Will that red/green band guys wear for matches cover his ankle monitor?

 

[rossel 33]

Cael’s ISU teams finished NCAA finished 3rd, 5th and 2nd in his 3 years. Not too bad really.

In his 3 years as assistant coach at ISU and 3 as head coach, I agree, the results with Cael were not too bad. Never said it was. But at the same time, in those 6 years, ISU never won the team title.

Cael is a good coach, no doubt. But the move to PSU with a mega-donor for the NLWC and the strong PA area HS pool led to a bonanza in recruiting top tier HS talent. No other school has been close to bringing in such high caliber talent year after year.

Coaching is very important obviously. But starting out with a lineup of blue chip recruits is the big differentiator these days.

 

[tiltman]

You could hand our coaching staff as many blue chippers as psu and 83% of them would be to banged up and injured to wrestle most of their career and the remaining wouldn’t contend for a title until their senior year.

 

[bourbon n blues]

It was the synergy between him, the school location, and the big donor that got things rolling, now you add in some recent history of success to sell, and being able to get the kids money legally, and you have a monster.

Some recent history of success? I'd say it's more than some success.

It's true that the sum is greater than probably adding up the parts, but if you put any other coach in Penn State's position in 2009/2010, would they have better results, similar, lesser?

I don't think anyone would do better.

 

[MSU158]

You could hand our coaching staff as many blue chippers as psu and 83% of them would be to banged up and injured to wrestle most of their career and the remaining wouldn’t contend for a title until their senior year.

Patently false. The very few guys that have actually been top 10 recruits wrestled 4 NCAA’s each(except Metcalf because VTech wouldn’t let him transfer) Of those Warner, Kemerer, Lee and Metcalf were all Finalists and AA’d every time. Even Marinelli AA’s 3 of 4 and would have the 4th if not for the freak rib injury against Griffith in the quarters.

Let’s not act like Iowa has had top recruits fall on their faces. They just don’t get nearly the amount PSU does. Hell, last year Iowa’s starting lineup averaged just over 30 p4p recruit rankings, while PSU was just over 5. The difference is staggering.

Look, PSU has the best coaching staff across the board. There is no doubt it is a lot more than just recruiting. However, flip the lineups from last year and you honestly think PSU would have had a prayer to beat Iowa last year?

 

[el dub]

Patently false. The very few guys that have actually been top 10 recruits wrestled 4 NCAA’s each(except Metcalf because VTech wouldn’t let him transfer) Of those Warner, Kemerer, Lee and Metcalf were all Finalists and AA’d every time. Even Marinelli AA’s 3 of 4 and would have the 4th if not for the freak rib injury against Griffith in the quarters.

Let’s not act like Iowa has had top recruits fall on their faces. They just don’t get nearly the amount PSU does. Hell, last year Iowa’s starting lineup averaged just over 30 p4p recruit rankings, while PSU was just over 5. The difference is staggering.

Look, PSU has the best coaching staff across the board. There is no doubt it is a lot more than just recruiting. However, flip the lineups from last year and you honestly think PSU would have had a prayer to beat Iowa last year?

Top 30 pfp average vs top 5.. That’s something, right there.

 

[el dub]

Patently false. The very few guys that have actually been top 10 recruits wrestled 4 NCAA’s each(except Metcalf because VTech wouldn’t let him transfer) Of those Warner, Kemerer, Lee and Metcalf were all Finalists and AA’d every time. Even Marinelli AA’s 3 of 4 and would have the 4th if not for the freak rib injury against Griffith in the quarters.

Let’s not act like Iowa has had top recruits fall on their faces. They just don’t get nearly the amount PSU does. Hell, last year Iowa’s starting lineup averaged just over 30 p4p recruit rankings, while PSU was just over 5. The difference is staggering.

Look, PSU has the best coaching staff across the board. There is no doubt it is a lot more than just recruiting. However, flip the lineups from last year and you honestly think PSU would have had a prayer to beat Iowa last year?

Btw, sounds like you’re channeling your inner Dana White, MSU. Lol

 

[mcpat]

Hell, last year Iowa’s starting lineup averaged just over 30 p4p recruit rankings, while PSU was just over 5. The difference is staggering.

I’d like to see your math on this. I just did the math and came up with an avg of 14.6. If PSU’s starting line up last year had been Dean and nine #1’s, they’d still be closer to 10 than 5.

 

[MSU158]

I’d like to see your math on this. I just did the math and came up with an avg of 14.6. If PSU’s starting line up last year had been Dean and nine #1’s, they’d still be closer to 10 than 5.

I did it a while ago. I will try to find it. But, I didn’t count Dean because he wasn’t recruited by PSU. Even then, I would say a transfer NCAA Finalist has a value of top 5, wouldn’t you agree?

 

[mcpat]

I did it a while ago. I will try to find it. But, I didn’t count Dean because he wasn’t recruited by PSU. Even then, I would say a transfer NCAA Finalist has a value of top 5, wouldn’t you agree?

I would agree, although it might be worth noting he wrestled up a weight class upon transferring.

But I was responding to what you wrote before the Dean stipulation. Also, if you call Dean a 5, I still come up with 7.7 average.

If I give Siebrecht a 101 ranking, I get a 34.8 average for Iowa’s 2023 starting lineup. But that doesn’t account for Woods being an AA when he transferred either. Won’t make near as much a difference as Dean, though.

 

[MSU158]

As solid as that is, PSU's is DISGUSTING.

125: Howard #7 P4P (Steen #29)
133: RBY #12 P4P
141: Bartlett #4 P4P
149: Van Ness #4 P4P
157: Haines #9 P4P
165: Facundo #2 P4P
174: Starocci #9 P4P
184: Brooks #2 P4P
197: Dean (The ONLY guy not recruited originally by PSU.) #74 P4P
285: Kerkvliet #1 P4P

That is an average P4P ranking, for those directly recruited, of (50/9)=5.56

Meanwhile, Iowa's average for just those directly recruited is (241/8)=30.02 So, Teske and Woods(55/2)=27.5, would actually bring that average down, ever so slightly, below 30 to 29.6...

I’d like to see your math on this. I just did the math and came up with an avg of 14.6. If PSU’s starting line up last year had been Dean and nine #1’s, they’d still be closer to 10 than 5.

The post above is where I came up with those numbers. Mind you it was when Howard could have possibly still been their 125 and if they didn’t get Dean and kept Beard, their actual recruiting WAS that high across 10 weights!

 

[MSU158]

Iowa's current p4p ranking for their starters was listed on the "Mid Level recruits..." thread. It made me look up PSU's to compare. After posting the response their, I think this is a VERY important topic that speaks volumes and really needed its own thread

Here is the Iowa rankings as posted by @24timenattychamps :

Spencer #2 p4p
Teske 34 P4P
Woods 21 P4p
Murin 44 p4p
Rathjen 49 p4p (Cobe NR)
Kennedy 3 P4p
Brands 93 p4p
Assad 29 p4p
Warner 7 p4p
Cass 14 p4p

Very solid, but also VERY telling as to why they are still considerable underdogs to PSU. Here is their roster's p4p rankings:

125: Howard #7 P4P (Steen #29)
133: RBY #12 P4P
141: Bartlett #4 P4P
149: Van Ness #4 P4P
157: Haines #9 P4P
165: Facundo #2 P4P
174: Starocci #9 P4P
184: Brooks #2 P4P
197: Dean (The ONLY guy not recruited originally by PSU.) #74 P4P
285: Kerkvliet #1 P4P

That is an average P4P ranking, for those directly recruited, of (50/9)=5.56

Meanwhile, Iowa's average for just those directly recruited is (241/8)=30.02 So, Teske and Woods(55/2)=27.5, would actually bring that average down, ever so slightly, below 30 to 29.6...

Next season, Iowa loses their highest recruit(#2 overall) in Spencer Lee as well as their 3rd highes(#7 overall) in Jacob Warner. They will also lose #44 Murin. PSU only loses, #12 RBY and #74 Dean. Granted, both are NCAA Champs, but they are the "worst" ranked recruits of their starters. With Barr(current #5 P4P in 2023) coming in, they could easily move their lineup around from 157-197 to fill Dean's spot. As of now, 133 looks to be their one and only question mark for 2023-24.

With the above said, PSU wil AGAIN have 9 top 10 P4P, directly recruited guys, almost certainly starting next season. This is a trend that has lasted too long to think anything changes. To have any chance to stay competitive, on the years you don't recruit a Chittum(was #1 P4P before reclassifying), Keuter(#2P4P), Jesuroga(#6P4P), Arnold(#10P4P) along with an "insurance" guy like Block(#24P4P), you STILL need to land 1 guy in that top 10 on the off years, for a NEED weight.

Finally, the formula is actually quite simple to list, but ridiculously difficult to achieve. One big class every 3 years or so where you basically match 2023. In between those 3 years you consistently at least land 1 top 10 at a crucial need weight. Once you get to the 2nd cycle, you should have 7 to even 10 starters in that coveted Top 10P4P range.

tOSU has come pretty close to doing this and they were the only team truly challenging PSU before Spencer arrived at Iowa. For Iowa to truly challenge for the foreseeable futher, they can't let off the recruiting pedal 1 bit. Even with the transfer portal becoming a bigger factor, you have no clue who will be out there to fill a need. Recruiting is the only true way to be as sure as you can be!

Here is the other post to show how I did Iowa’s. Mind you, it was more to show the crazy recruiting disparity than who the final starters ended up being. PSU was so full of top guys, they actually had room for an injury at 125 to still have a top 30 step in and to have a Finalist transfer make a top 10 transfer out…

 

[mcpat]

Here is the other post to show how I did Iowa’s. Mind you, it was more to show the crazy recruiting disparity than who the final starters ended up being. PSU was so full of top guys, they actually had room for an injury at 125 to still have a top 30 step in and to have a Finalist transfer make a top 10 transfer out…

Our numbers agree. I was going by the “starters” comment. Definitely a disparity. Would be interesting to add Ohio St to the analysis.

 

[MSU158]

Our numbers agree. I was going by the “starters” comment. Definitely a disparity. Would be interesting to add Ohio St to the analysis.

Yeah, I was going off memory from several months ago. “Starters” may be a tad loose since Steen ended up at 125, but that was only due to injury. Also, Cobe ended up taking the spot from Rathjen, so that actually widened the gap.

Still, the overall point remains. PSU had a top 10 recruit at EVERY weight before Beard transferred out due to Dean. Considering Iowa hasn’t recruited that many top 10s the ENTIRE time Brands has been HC, there is no way in hell you could make a remotely fair comparison, let alone act like they would flounder at Iowa…

 

[mcpat]

Yeah, I was going off memory from several months ago. “Starters” may be a tad loose since Steen ended up at 125, but that was only due to injury. Also, Cobe ended up taking the spot from Rathjen, so that actually widened the gap.

Still, the overall point remains. PSU had a top 10 recruit at EVERY weight before Beard transferred out due to Dean. Considering Iowa hasn’t recruited that many top 10s the ENTIRE time Brands has been HC, there is no way in hell you could make a remotely fair comparison, let alone act like they would flounder at Iowa…

There is a clear disparity but you’re still playing a little loose with facts, which you really don’t need to do to make your point. RBY wasn’t a top 10 recruit. But the following were:

Spencer
Ayala
Warner
Kennedy
Kemerer
Marinelli
Gilman
Skonieczny
Clark
Evans
Ramos
Stoll

I’m sure I’m missing some from the 08-10 three-peat (Metcalf? Borschel? Perry? McDonough? Etc.)

 

[tiltman]

I’m to lazy to do it but it would be interesting to see caels percentage of top 10 recruits to win a championship compared to Brands.

 

[mcpat]

I’m to lazy to do it but it would be interesting to see caels percentage of top 10 recruits to win a championship compared to Brands.

I’d like to see Cornell and Ohio State added to that analysis. I might think Cornell’s percentage is the highest and Ohio State’s the lowest.

 

[Libertylover]

There is a clear disparity but you’re still playing a little loose with facts, which you really don’t need to do to make your point. RBY wasn’t a top 10 recruit. But the following were:

Spencer
Ayala
Warner
Kennedy
Kemerer
Marinelli
Gilman
Meyer
Clark
Evans
Ramos
Stoll

I’m sure I’m missing some from the 08-10 three-peat (Metcalf? Borschel? Perry? McDonough? Etc.)

I didn’t think Meyer was a blue chip recruit, not even close.

 

[mcpat]

I didn’t think Meyer was a blue chip recruit, not even close.

I created that list by jotting down possible names, researching them, and then deleting those outside the top 10. From Iowa’s #1 ranked class of 2012, I accidentally kept Meyer and deleted Skonieczny when I meant to do the opposite. I’ll fix it.

 

[Chris92]

Here is the other post to show how I did Iowa’s. Mind you, it was more to show the crazy recruiting disparity than who the final starters ended up being. PSU was so full of top guys, they actually had room for an injury at 125 to still have a top 30 step in and to have a Finalist transfer make a top 10 transfer out…

What's your methodology for the P4P rankings? When Starocci committed, he was #15 p4p, Brooks #13 when he verbaled and Barlett was 7th p4p when he committed, according to flo.
Starocci
Bartlett
Brooks

 

[LaxHawk174]

I created that list by jotting down possible names, researching them, and then deleting those outside the top 10. From Iowa’s #1 ranked class of 2012, I accidentally kept Meyer and deleted Skonieczny when I meant to do the opposite. I’ll fix it.

Skonieczny was #15, Gilman was #16, Brooks #20, Clark #22-24ish, Meyer High 20's to low 40's range, can't remember exactly. Stoll was ranked low teens in Class of 2014.

 

[MSU158]

What's your methodology for the P4P rankings? When Starocci committed, he was #15 p4p, Brooks #13 when he verbaled and Barlett was 7th p4p when he committed, according to flo.
Starocci
Bartlett
Brooks

I went by the last ranking for their respective classes, which would be the most accurate, don’t ya think? Plus, I am not going to begin to try to go look at recruiting rankings at the time of commitments for all guys, that is insane. Even then, are you going by signing an NLI or when the verballed?

If you want to, feel free to find the date each guy signed for both Teams and then match up the rankings. Please give the dates for each and the date of the ranking. Thanks in advance.

 

[mcpat]

Skonieczny was #15, Gilman was #16, Brooks #20, Clark #22-24ish, Meyer High 20's to low 40's range, can't remember exactly. Stoll was ranked low teens in Class of 2014.

I looked them all up. Maybe I made a couple mistakes - some of the older years were pieced together, but I think it’s pretty close to correct.

Twice edited; MSU also saying I have a few wrong. I concede.

As an aside, I put a lot of time into that to be wrong. That’s rather annoying.

 

[MSU158]

There is a clear disparity but you’re still playing a little loose with facts, which you really don’t need to do to make your point. RBY wasn’t a top 10 recruit. But the following were:

Spencer
Ayala
Warner
Kennedy
Kemerer
Marinelli
Gilman
Skonieczny
Clark
Evans
Ramos
Stoll

I’m sure I’m missing some from the 08-10 three-peat (Metcalf? Borschel? Perry? McDonough? Etc.)

That list only has 7 top 10s. Metcalf would make 8. Like I said, over Brands entire tenure he hasn't recruited as many top 10s as PSU has on just this years roster alone.

Also, here are the results of the top 10’s:

Metcalf 1,2,1 and lost a year transferring.
Evans (1-2),6,6,6
Lee 1,1,1,6
Kemerer 3,4,2,5
Marinelli 6,7,R12(inj),5
Warner 7,4,2,5
Ayala (1-2inj),?,?,?
Kennedy(2-2),?,?,?

So, they AA’d 21 out of 25 NCAA appearances with Metcalf being the ONLY one not able to wrestle all 4 years(Ayala and Kennedy are still eligible for 3 more). Of that 21, they have 5 Titles and 2 more 2nds. 19 of those 21 are top 6, which is really important for team scoring as 7th and 8th only score 4 and 3, respectively.

So for 1, tiltman’s being too injured to wrestle argument is 100% debunked.

Now, I WILL say that PSU has done an incredible job getting their guys to win it all, but Iowa has still done very well with the few top 10’s they have had. To be clear, they only average .5 top 10 recruits per year and PSU has double digits on their current roster…

 

[MSU158]

Dude, I looked them all up. All of them.

Please list the ranking for each at the end of their senior year and what service you used. Because, I have the same thing as Lax. Thanks in advance.

 

[Chris92]

I went by the last ranking for their respective classes, which would be the most accurate, don’t ya think? Plus, I am not going to begin to try to go look at recruiting rankings at the time of commitments for all guys, that is insane. Even then, are you going by signing an NLI or when the verballed?

If you want to, feel free to find the date each guy signed for both Teams and then match up the rankings. Please give the dates for each and the date of the ranking. Thanks in advance.

The point is, the staffs just didn't luck into these top guys. The staffs don't have the luxury to start recruiting these guys when their senior seasons' are over, right? When Carter committed, no even cared on this site because he was only 15 p4p. and wasn't deemed elite at the time. Levis Haines was only #8 at 152 pounds when he pulled the trigger. You have to give credit to Cael and company for IDing the talent and potential early.

 

[MSU158]

The point is, the staffs just didn't luck into these top guys. The staffs don't have the luxury to start recruiting these guys when their senior seasons' are over, right? When Carter committed, no even cared on this site because he was only 15 p4p. and wasn't deemed elite at the time. Levis Haines was only #8 at 152 pounds when he pulled the trigger. You have to give credit to Cael and company for IDing the talent and potential early.

Again, are you going by a verbal or an NLI?