Iowa State...

[DodgerHawki]

Agree. With big, strong Midwest linemen and big running backs they could perhaps be one of the if not the best ball control offenses in the Big 12 but instead they are consistently one of the worst "high power" offenses.
And I think the Fatman should get fired before Burnham does fwiw.

It's a bit of what Snyder has done in recent years at K-State. With Klein at QB, he used a good OL and a great powerful running QB to control and dictate the pace of the game. He tweaked it a bit with Waters at QB, but same principle.

It's not a winning formula for Iowa State to out-athlete Baylor, TCU and Oklahoma by going spread and speed up. It would be like Iowa trying to beat Ohio State by running Urban Meyer's offense. It's a losing battle, as OSU will recruit the better athletes. Note: It's not like Iowa has had much success against OSU anyway, but Iowa has at least had numerous competitive games against OSU under KF.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

It's a bit of what Snyder has done in recent years at K-State. With Klein at QB, he used a good OL and a great powerful running QB to control and dictate the pace of the game. He tweaked it a bit with Waters at QB, but same principle.

It's not a winning formula for Iowa State to out-athlete Baylor, TCU and Oklahoma by going spread and speed up. It would be like Iowa trying to beat Ohio State by running Urban Meyer's offense. It's a losing battle, as OSU will recruit the better athletes. Note: It's not like Iowa has had much success against OSU anyway, but Iowa has at least had numerous competitive games against OSU under KF.

Yeah that worked for teams like Purdue and Northwestern, etc going to the spread offense when most of the powers were more traditional pro-style offenses back in the early 2000s, but nowadays most teams implement some spread elements and definitely look to utilize speed in space and for Iowa State to try and match that, it's just not gonna happen.

They need to go against the grain yet again if they want to become competitive against even the middle of the Big 12 (and they tend to have a couple of those games, but they usually ultimately lose those as well. A 1-pt loss to Texas is still a loss no matter how many years in a row it occurs, nor does it signify that you've arrived).

For a B10 example, look at how Minnesota has become competitive in conference play once again. They're pretty much an ultra run-heavy offense with an emphasis on solid defensive play as well. They won't win the conference but they're much more competitive than they were in the late 2000s and early 2010s.

 

[Lone Clone]

I have never understood why ISU has tried to out-athlete Big12 programs who have on their current rosters as well as have direct recruiting access to better athletes. Yes ISU gets a couple of good players but that's not enough to think you consistently win track meets.

I agree with an earlier poster that I would go against the Big 12 grain and develop big, stout and physical O-lines and play a huge slow down ball control game. It would be run heavy attack with play action passing and just frustrate the heck out of those offenses by having them sitting and waiting on the sidelines. Then build your D to be a bend but do not break style. If they score force them to take 10+ play drives to do it and 4-5 minutes off the clock.

It's silly to think you are going to win much playing their style when they have better players and better weather.

You make a lot of sense, but basically that's what Rhoads has been trying to do. The ISU offense is nothing like those of Tech, Baylor and TCU. He wants to run and use the short passes. The problem has been that he hasn't recruited and/or developed the talent necessary to do it, especially in the line.

 

[83Hawk]

I have never understood why ISU has tried to out-athlete Big12 programs who have on their current rosters as well as have direct recruiting access to better athletes. Yes ISU gets a couple of good players but that's not enough to think you consistently win track meets.

I agree with an earlier poster that I would go against the Big 12 grain and develop big, stout and physical O-lines and play a huge slow down ball control game. It would be run heavy attack with play action passing and just frustrate the heck out of those offenses by having them sitting and waiting on the sidelines. Then build your D to be a bend but do not break style. If they score force them to take 10+ play drives to do it and 4-5 minutes off the clock.

It's silly to think you are going to win much playing their style when they have better players and better weather.

Like Nebraska used to do when they were in the Big 12......

 

[Lone Clone]

Like Nebraska used to do when they were in the Big 12......

Yeah, except the league wasn't as pass-happy then as it has become since then.

 

[Slappy Pappy]

Like the offense Danny Mac used....

...someone run and tell Pollard that he is available.

 

[Lone Clone]

Like the offense Danny Mac used....

Yeah. The two years Troy Davis rushed for more than 2,000 yards we went 3-8 and 2-9.

 

[HerkyFan]

Yeah. The two years Troy Davis rushed for more than 2,000 yards we went 3-8 and 2-9.

I have a feeling Mike Warren won't get the Heisman consideration or run that T. Davis got though. Then again maybe isu can face one of the worst rushing defenses in the country every week like he did against Texas Tech.

 

[grosie#2]

I use to be able to at least watch ISU play in past yrs. and be somewhat entertained. The last 2 yrs. I usually turn the channel after the 2nd quarter. I'm not a big Clone hater and would like to see them win but Rhoads is a awful coach. Actually ISU needs an offense similar to Iowa's just to keep their defense off the field. Their hurry up spread does not do that and with all the bad defenses in the Big 12 it would be worth a try.

 

[Slappy Pappy]

Yeah. The two years Troy Davis rushed for more than 2,000 yards we went 3-8 and 2-9.

Actually, I was referring to when he set the ISU record for wins in a season and bowl appearances. You remember those days, old man? Those were the best years you will ever have seen from that garbage pail of a program by the time you kick the bucket.

 

[Lone Clone]

Actually, I was referring to when he set the ISU record for wins in a season and bowl appearances. You remember those days, old man? Those were the best years you will ever have seen from that garbage pail of a program by the time you kick the bucket.

If you had any friends, they would tell you to think before you post.

Mac's years most definitely were not the best I've seen at ISU.

 

[Birky]

If you had any friends, they would tell you to think before you post.

Mac's years most definitely were not the best I've seen at ISU.

You could make a case for his 9-3. Probably one of the five best season at ISU in any living ISU fan's memory. Maybe 2 or 3 better teams in the 70's and the "dirty thirty" in the late 50's. Was that the nickname for that team?

 

[HerkyFan]

If you had any friends, they would tell you to think before you post.

Mac's years most definitely were not the best I've seen at ISU.

Anyone with any logic at all would realize Mac gave isu its highest win total in school history. But according to Lone Clone that isn't the best.

 

[millhawk]

The biggest problem Saturday was the offense. Seriously. If you watched the game, you would agree with me. Assuming you understand football.

Nobody has stopped the TT offense all season. They have a great scheme and great players. They also have figured out how to hold on every play -- their QB has been sacked ONCE all season. But the Zorros have a weak defense. The way to hang with them is score points and keep the ball away from them.

ISU gained nearly 500 yards -- including over 300 rushing, 245 of them by Mike Warren -- and scored 31 points, but left all kinds of points on the field. It was probably the worst game Sam has played at QB since he came to ISU. Continually missed open receivers, and threw three picks that were indefensible throws. (by "indefensible" I mean there was no excuse for throwing them, not that it was impossible to defend against them. Obviously).

As Ben Bruns pointed out in the post-game commentary, when one quarterback has a rating of almost 200 and the other has a rating of 90, it isn't difficult to guess who's going to win the game.

LC, I didn't see the game but I do understand your point about your offense. Not a troll question but did ISU's defense force a punt and I mean a punt when they had their number one team out there?I have no idea because I didn't watch or read about the game. No matter how good TT offense is and I think it is pretty good, the D has to slow them down and get off the field. Offenses like their's can be slowed with hard nosed physical defense.

 

[hawks127]

81,438 messages and Lone Clone still doesn't get it.

Lol this was perfect.

 

[BeepBeepInMyJeep]

I have never understood why ISU has tried to out-athlete Big12 programs who have on their current rosters as well as have direct recruiting access to better athletes. Yes ISU gets a couple of good players but that's not enough to think you consistently win track meets.

I agree with an earlier poster that I would go against the Big 12 grain and develop big, stout and physical O-lines and play a huge slow down ball control game. It would be run heavy attack with play action passing and just frustrate the heck out of those offenses by having them sitting and waiting on the sidelines. Then build your D to be a bend but do not break style. If they score force them to take 10+ play drives to do it and 4-5 minutes off the clock.

It's silly to think you are going to win much playing their style when they have better players and better weather.

Yea I never understood this strategy either. I'm not saying Iowa would beat TCU or Baylor but that doesn't mean anything. Chances are low of beating any of the top 3 teams in our conference as well. We can't do anything about the strength of schedule except trying to find another BCS school that has a decent record more than twice a century. But if the door is open for Iowa via a favorable schedule, shame on us if we don't walk through it.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

The biggest problem Saturday was the offense. Seriously. If you watched the game, you would agree with me. Assuming you understand football.

Nobody has stopped the TT offense all season. They have a great scheme and great players. They also have figured out how to hold on every play -- their QB has been sacked ONCE all season. But the Zorros have a weak defense. The way to hang with them is score points and keep the ball away from them.

ISU gained nearly 500 yards -- including over 300 rushing, 245 of them by Mike Warren -- and scored 31 points, but left all kinds of points on the field. It was probably the worst game Sam has played at QB since he came to ISU. Continually missed open receivers, and threw three picks that were indefensible throws. (by "indefensible" I mean there was no excuse for throwing them, not that it was impossible to defend against them. Obviously).

As Ben Bruns pointed out in the post-game commentary, when one quarterback has a rating of almost 200 and the other has a rating of 90, it isn't difficult to guess who's going to win the game.

Dude, nobody really cares....you can save your analysis....we just like making fun of lil brother and it's miserable fan base. Here is your analysis in a nutshell:ISU sucks really really bad

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

You make a lot of sense, but basically that's what Rhoads has been trying to do. The ISU offense is nothing like those of Tech, Baylor and TCU. He wants to run and use the short passes. The problem has been that he hasn't recruited and/or developed the talent necessary to do it, especially in the line.

The problem is that ISU football actually exists, get rid of it and this nightmare ISU fans have to face 12 times a year would be over

 

[TS568]

I wish we could play in the Big12! We'd win that conference most years and always be in the hunt. Your conference champ would've finished 4th in the B1G last year. That tells it all.

P.S. Neb wishes they could play in the Big12 also!

We barely beat Iowa State half the time so I don't know how we would win the Big 12 "most" years. This year I think is different though and I would love our chances to run the table in that league. As Mike Tyson said " every one has a plan until they get punched in the face".

With Nebraska's worst -in-the-nation pass defense I don't think they wish they were in Big 12 this year. They'd still be losing but it would be UGLY.

 

[hawks127]

The problem is that ISU football actually exists, get rid of it and this nightmare ISU fans have to face 12 times a year would be over

Its almost basketball season tho

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

Its almost basketball season tho

It feels like this is the year Hoiberg finally gets over the hump.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

It feels like this is the year Hoiberg finally gets over the hump.

Yeah and the college World Series could be within reach this summer for the mighty ISU baseball program and Cale is eyeing that big 12 wrestling title

 

[iahawkeyes17]

If you had any friends, they would tell you to think before you post.

Mac's years most definitely were not the best I've seen at ISU.

Maybe so about Mac but has been the best for them since at least 1980. I think like my great grandmother who recently passed there aren't too many people left who saw those glorious championship seasons from 1911-12 the best years of ISU football.

 

[rufus-hawk]

Dude, nobody really cares....you can save your analysis....we just like making fun of lil brother and it's miserable fan base. Here is your analysis in a nutshell:ISU sucks really really bad

Lone Clone is a modern day flagellant.

It is not enough self-punishment to be an ISU fan. He adds to his own suffering by coming to this board and attempting to make well-reasoned arguments to people who just want to give him crap for being an ISU fan on an Iowa site.

Apparently no amount of self abuse is enough for this guy. Imagine the sheer number of hours it takes to write that many posts! If you figured it out it must add up to literally weeks or months of one's life.

 

[HerkyFan]

It feels like this is the year Hoiberg finally gets over the hump.

That is awesome. Well done sir.

 

[JStandefer]

I have never understood why ISU has tried to out-athlete Big12 programs who have on their current rosters as well as have direct recruiting access to better athletes. Yes ISU gets a couple of good players but that's not enough to think you consistently win track meets.

I agree with an earlier poster that I would go against the Big 12 grain and develop big, stout and physical O-lines and play a huge slow down ball control game. It would be run heavy attack with play action passing and just frustrate the heck out of those offenses by having them sitting and waiting on the sidelines. Then build your D to be a bend but do not break style. If they score force them to take 10+ play drives to do it and 4-5 minutes off the clock.

It's silly to think you are going to win much playing their style when they have better players and better weather.

Exactly. If you are ISU, you have to be different in whatever conference you play in. Pro set would do it in the Big XII or an option attack like Georgia Tech.

 

[Lone Clone]

You could make a case for his 9-3. Probably one of the five best season at ISU in any living ISU fan's memory. Maybe 2 or 3 better teams in the 70's and the "dirty thirty" in the late 50's. Was that the nickname for that team?

The "DirtyThirty" predates me by a few years. It was in '59. They weren't supposed to be any good, went to Oklahoma for the last game of the season at 7-2, with the two losses both on the road, one 7 points, the other 14. ISU would have gone to the Orange Bowl with a win in the last game. Which of course they didn't get. The nickname wasn't a reference to their style of play. There were only 30 men on the entire squad. The first game was against Drake in a morass of mud, and when the team came off the field, the equipment manager said something about "here comes the dirty thirty" and it stuck.

I'm not knocking Mac nor the team that went 9-3. He did a tremendous amount for ISU. That team was very good and it got ISU it's first bowl win. But I don't think it was even Mac's best team. They only played two ranked teams that year and lost to both, by 49-27 and 56-10. I think several of Mac's teams were better, especially the '01 and '02 teams with Seneca Wallace.

Bruce had several teams that I think were better than that, and of course two of the Johnny Majors teams would probably fit in that category, as well.

 

[Lone Clone]

Lone Clone is a modern day flagellant.

Maybe, but mine don't smell.

 

[SeaBassWins]

I wish we could play in the Big12! We'd win that conference most years and always be in the hunt. Your conference champ would've finished 4th in the B1G last year. That tells it all.

P.S. Neb wishes they could play in the Big12 also!

Just imagine the way you feel about the clones based on hawk history and winning percent against them and then you can relate to how Neb fans feel about you guys based on the same thing. You have absolutely no data to back up your silly argument about all the years Neb was in big8 and big12 and how easy they had it those years. If you cared to look at the data you would find that head to head the big12 outmatched the big10, this FACT was actually posted by one of the hawks more reasonable fans on a different thread.
Hawks are 6-0 enjoy it, revel in it and throw it in the faces of the fans for which you show so much animosity towards, but please stop at this season, as there is no historical data or fact that supports any of your other rants.
I love to visit IC and as a football fan I even enjoy the hawk brand of football, but I have come to find that the only thing worse then a crazy Neb fan is a bitter hawk fan.

 

[thirdandpunting]

Is this the thread where an Iowa State fan makes an excuse and then an Iowa fan says how bad Iowa State is?
Then the Iowa State fan says "Oh yeah... Big 12..."
Iowa fan "We'd win every where... KF is awesome"
Iowa State fan "No you wouldn't... Seneca Wallace"
Iowa fan "Physical Big Ten"
Iowa State fan "Oklahoma!"

 

[SeaBassWins]

Is this the thread where an Iowa State fan makes an excuse and then an Iowa fan says how bad Iowa State is?
Then the Iowa State fan says "Oh yeah... Big 12..."
Iowa fan "We'd win every where... KF is awesome"
Iowa State fan "No you wouldn't... Seneca Wallace"
Iowa fan "Physical Big Ten"
Iowa State fan "Oklahoma!"

Yes.

 

[thirdandpunting]

Thank you

The world makes sense again

 

[Birky]

The "DirtyThirty" predates me by a few years. It was in '59. They weren't supposed to be any good, went to Oklahoma for the last game of the season at 7-2, with the two losses both on the road, one 7 points, the other 14. ISU would have gone to the Orange Bowl with a win in the last game. Which of course they didn't get. The nickname wasn't a reference to their style of play. There were only 30 men on the entire squad. The first game was against Drake in a morass of mud, and when the team came off the field, the equipment manager said something about "here comes the dirty thirty" and it stuck.

I'm not knocking Mac nor the team that went 9-3. He did a tremendous amount for ISU. That team was very good and it got ISU it's first bowl win. But I don't think it was even Mac's best team. They only played two ranked teams that year and lost to both, by 49-27 and 56-10. I think several of Mac's teams were better, especially the '01 and '02 teams with Seneca Wallace.

Bruce had several teams that I think were better than that, and of course two of the Johnny Majors teams would probably fit in that category, as well.

I think his '05 may have been his best team. When Wallace was on, the '01 and '02 teams were tough to beat, but '05 had a really good defense and completely crapped the bed.

 

[Lone Clone]

I think his '05 may have been his best team. When Wallace was on, the '01 and '02 teams were tough to beat, but '05 had a really good defense and completely crapped the bed.

You may be right. Mac's record against rated teams was 3-40, and two of the three wins were in '05. That year may have ultimately cost Mac his job. Team lost 4 games -- 3 of them on the road in overtime. If they had won any of those four, they'd have played in the league title game (and gotten killed, but that's a detail).

 

[Lone Clone]

Thank you

The world makes sense again

Sorry to upset your world, but the answer to your question is no. If you would read the thread, you would see that and wouldn't have to ask silly questions.

 

[5Fan5]

Just imagine the way you feel about the clones based on hawk history and winning percent against them and then you can relate to how Neb fans feel about you guys based on the same thing. You have absolutely no data to back up your silly argument about all the years Neb was in big8 and big12 and how easy they had it those years. If you cared to look at the data you would find that head to head the big12 outmatched the big10, this FACT was actually posted by one of the hawks more reasonable fans on a different thread.
Hawks are 6-0 enjoy it, revel in it and throw it in the faces of the fans for which you show so much animosity towards, but please stop at this season, as there is no historical data or fact that supports any of your other rants.
I love to visit IC and as a football fan I even enjoy the hawk brand of football, but I have come to find that the only thing worse then a crazy Neb fan is a bitter hawk fan.

Pretend that I 'care' and reproduce that data for me/us. My initial reaction/suspicion is that most of the big 8/big xii faced teams not named Ohio State and/or Michigan similar to the history that isu has versus Big Ten teams. Let's take a close look at the numbers and see what that might tell.

(BTW - I was not aware that the 2015 football season had concluded and is now officially over. Seem to recall some poster threatening not to be expected on HR until after the season was completed.)

 

[5Fan5]

The "DirtyThirty" predates me by a few years. It was in '59. They weren't supposed to be any good, went to Oklahoma for the last game of the season at 7-2, with the two losses both on the road, one 7 points, the other 14. ISU would have gone to the Orange Bowl with a win in the last game. Which of course they didn't get. The nickname wasn't a reference to their style of play. There were only 30 men on the entire squad. The first game was against Drake in a morass of mud, and when the team came off the field, the equipment manager said something about "here comes the dirty thirty" and it stuck.

I'm not knocking Mac nor the team that went 9-3. He did a tremendous amount for ISU. That team was very good and it got ISU it's first bowl win. But I don't think it was even Mac's best team. They only played two ranked teams that year and lost to both, by 49-27 and 56-10. I think several of Mac's teams were better, especially the '01 and '02 teams with Seneca Wallace.

Bruce had several teams that I think were better than that, and of course two of the Johnny Majors teams would probably fit in that category, as well.

Fully realizing that the idea of the Dirty Thirty team was introduced to this discussion by Birky, I am curious as to how it even makes the list given the criteria set forth by LC. In addition to the conference slate of six games, isu faced Drake, Denver, South Dakota and San Jose State. Out of the entire ten game docket, there appears to have been two (maybe three) teams with winning records. At least eight of the ten opponents had five or more losses on the year. Sure does not look like isu played anything other than a mediocre schedule of games in '59. Oh, and the loss to Missouri is recorded as having occurred in Ames, Iowa.

From this perspective, Dan McCarney accomplished more with less than quite possibly any other modern era football coach at isu. People will continue to downplay his achievements, but given the results of the most recent seven plus seasons since his departure, it is hard to argue that he was not one of the best to set foot in Ames.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

Just imagine the way you feel about the clones based on hawk history and winning percent against them and then you can relate to how Neb fans feel about you guys based on the same thing. You have absolutely no data to back up your silly argument about all the years Neb was in big8 and big12 and how easy they had it those years. If you cared to look at the data you would find that head to head the big12 outmatched the big10, this FACT was actually posted by one of the hawks more reasonable fans on a different thread.
Hawks are 6-0 enjoy it, revel in it and throw it in the faces of the fans for which you show so much animosity towards, but please stop at this season, as there is no historical data or fact that supports any of your other rants.
I love to visit IC and as a football fan I even enjoy the hawk brand of football, but I have come to find that the only thing worse then a crazy Neb fan is a bitter hawk fan.

All I know is nebby has not even come close to big ten title.....made it one year only to give up 70 points (yes 70 points to a big10 team) and were regularly in the title game big 12 title game, historically and narrowly lost in its final 2 years....then we had to hear from Nebby fans how they would easily win it every year and we are still waiting for that....maybe you should ask Nebby fans which conference is better

 

[SeaBassWins]

All I know is nebby has not even come close to big ten title.....made it one year only to give up 70 points (yes 70 points to a big10 team) and were regularly in the title game big 12 title game, historically and narrowly lost in its final 2 years....then we had to hear from Nebby fans how they would easily win it every year and we are still waiting for that....maybe you should ask Nebby fans which conference is better

I work with people who are hawk fans and some who are Neb fans and have never heard any Neb fan say they would easily win big10 titles when they joined the league. All I have heard from both hawks and neb fans is they wanted to contend to rep the west in the big10 title game. I am pretty sure that the first goal of every team is to win their conference. You hear what you want to hear and I am sure there are Neb fans out there that may have said what you claim. As said before, enjoy the hawks 6-0 start and spout off however you want about this season to whomever you choose, but stop at that as you have no other data or stats to support any of your other claims. A quick study of the hawks v. Neb history tells us plenty:

Hawks all time winning percent against Neb - 0.322 (real close to clones all time winning percent against hawks)
Neb has won 5 out of 6 since 1999 against the hawks
Neb has won 3 out of 4 since joining the bigten (hawks only win in 2013 was against Neb third string QB)

 

[5Fan5]

I work with people who are hawk fans and some who are Neb fans and have never heard any Neb fan say they would easily win big10 titles when they joined the league. All I have heard from both hawks and neb fans is they wanted to contend to rep the west in the big10 title game. I am pretty sure that the first goal of every team is to win their conference. You hear what you want to hear and I am sure there are Neb fans out there that may have said what you claim. As said before, enjoy the hawks 6-0 start and spout off however you want about this season to whomever you choose, but stop at that as you have no other data or stats to support any of your other claims. A quick study of the hawks v. Neb history tells us plenty:

Hawks all time winning percent against Neb - 0.322 (real close to hawks all time winning percent against clones)
Neb has won 5 out of 6 since 1999 against the hawks
Neb has won 3 out of 4 since joining the bigten (hawks only win in 2013 was against Neb third string QB)

Wow. Five out of six, you say? Who would of 'thunk' that?

Earlier you stated that evidence exists to show the big 8/big xii dominance of the Big Ten. Still waiting on that data.

Oh, anyone that read HR for the period prior to Nebraska joining the Big Ten can recall Big Dead fans telling us how easy it would be for UN to win the Big Ten. The mere speed and skill of Nebraska would put the slow, methodical, plodding and predictable Big Ten to shame. Are you denying that was the case?

Let me know when you have those FACTS handy.... can't wait to read all about how the big 8/big xii has such superiority over the Big Ten.