Is it time to defund the band?

[Herky T Hawk]

Actually the Athletic Department covers a lot more of the costs of the marching band than just bowl travel. They cover the costs for the trip to ISU every other year, which is just a bus to Ames and back on game day, no overnight. They also cover the cost for any other away game that the band goes to. Those are usually one or two night affairs in a hotel for the entire band and staff, a low per diem for food for each student/staff member, plus buses to and from wherever they go. I think the athletic department also covers the costs of dry cleaning the uniforms twice per year, mid season and off season.

The director, currently Kevin Kastens who is retiring, is a professor(non-PhD) in the music department and is paid for by them. He teaches other classes than just the marching band.

The TAs are music education graduate students in the music department. I'm guessing that they get some form of compensation being TAs, and that would be paid for by the music department. But those people do more than just help out with the marching band.

Most of the students in the band are non-music majors. And non of them are receiving scholarships to be in the band. The music majors might be receiving some form of scholarship, but it isn't specifically for them to be in the marching band. In fact if I remember right only music education students are required to be in the marching band for their entire undergrad tenure. Music performance students don't have that requirement or may only need to do it for one or two years.

Most of the students provide their own instruments. The school provides instruments for the drumline, sousaphones, baritones, and I think added trombones in the past 10 years or so (when I played in 1999-2000 I had to provide my own trombone). Those instruments last many years so they aren't being replaced frequently, there would only be regular replacement of consumables like drum heads or other repair for recurring costs.

Basically my point is that the costs to the music department and liberal arts college are not that high compared to what the athletic department is covering. Which makes sense since 90+% of what the marching band does is on behalf of the athletic department. And as we know, the athletic department is rolling in cash to the point that we can pay multi-million dollar wrongful termination settlements and still keep the AD responsible for those around.

 

[laidbackdude2011]

Iowa doesnt even give some band members an instrument? WTF

 

[IC Hawks]

College football is the big cash cow whose revenues everyone is trying to get a piece, and as big as possible.

In this hiring/firing season witness the ridiculous buyouts coaches demand and get.

The disenfranchised players, fans, and students just keep taking hit after hit. Not enough money to fund the band? There's TOO MUCH MONEY ... much of it misappropriated.

 

[DogBoyRy]

Actually the Athletic Department covers a lot more of the costs of the marching band than just bowl travel. They cover the costs for the trip to ISU every other year, which is just a bus to Ames and back on game day, no overnight. They also cover the cost for any other away game that the band goes to. Those are usually one or two night affairs in a hotel for the entire band and staff, a low per diem for food for each student/staff member, plus buses to and from wherever they go. I think the athletic department also covers the costs of dry cleaning the uniforms twice per year, mid season and off season.

The director, currently Kevin Kastens who is retiring, is a professor(non-PhD) in the music department and is paid for by them. He teaches other classes than just the marching band.

The TAs are music education graduate students in the music department. I'm guessing that they get some form of compensation being TAs, and that would be paid for by the music department. But those people do more than just help out with the marching band.

Most of the students in the band are non-music majors. And non of them are receiving scholarships to be in the band. The music majors might be receiving some form of scholarship, but it isn't specifically for them to be in the marching band. In fact if I remember right only music education students are required to be in the marching band for their entire undergrad tenure. Music performance students don't have that requirement or may only need to do it for one or two years.

Most of the students provide their own instruments. The school provides instruments for the drumline, sousaphones, baritones, and I think added trombones in the past 10 years or so (when I played in 1999-2000 I had to provide my own trombone). Those instruments last many years so they aren't being replaced frequently, there would only be regular replacement of consumables like drum heads or other repair for recurring costs.

Basically my point is that the costs to the music department and liberal arts college are not that high compared to what the athletic department is covering. Which makes sense since 90+% of what the marching band does is on behalf of the athletic department. And as we know, the athletic department is rolling in cash to the point that we can pay multi-million dollar wrongful termination settlements and still keep the AD responsible for those around.

Thanks for clearing up the spend question.
Still seems like a waste of $$.
Id prefer a pep band like stanford or privately funded.

 

[rufus-hawk]

Iowa doesnt even give some band members an instrument? WTF

A lot of high schools only provide the bigger, more expensive instruments. Probably a lot of these guys already own their own clarinet or trumpet.

I think they have trouble just getting enough people. I wish they were expected to play the music a little better, to be honest. Other bands, including Nebraska’s, are frankly way better.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

As for the complaint about the quality of the band, that really is a lot like head football coaches.

Kastens is a nice guy, but he has been stuck in his ways for the past 20 years. Constantly reusing songs, like Earth Wind and Fire songs or Thriller, and rarely playing anything written in the past 20 years. Basically he hasn't adapted at all and plays things rather conservatively. Sound familiar?

The new guy that gets hired will hopefully bring in a lot of new energy and modernization. When the band was awarded the Sudler trophy back in 1990 they had a director that was pretty forward thinking. When I was a freshman in 1999 I remember hearing the Seniors talk a lot about the previous director before Kastens and how everything, including the music played, was a lot more fun.

The other thing that I find interesting, seeing some complaints in this thread, is that Kastens always harped on sounding good musically. He wanted the marching band to play with the quality of a concert band even though that meant playing quieter. Contrast that to Wisconsin who has a director that doesn't care so much about quality, he just wants them to play as loud as possible. The thing is that a lot of people really like to hear that loud, blasting, brassy sound at football games which is why so many people like the way that Wisconsin sounds as opposed to Iowa. It will be interesting to see what the new director changes with the program. Hopefully it is an improvement.

 

[TombItMayConcern]

Many of you old enough to remember the Scottish Highlanders?

 

[MeetTheFerentz]

Unless something has changed in the last 20 years, only the drum major and Golden Girl (baton girl) are given scholarships specifically for marching band performance.

As others on here have stated, the cost of having the marching band falls a lot heavier on the Athletic Department than the Music Department (due to travel), but I think it's safe to say that their budgets are slightly different, so the actual "burden" is much more on the Music Department, and when donations are made, they generally cover the Music Department's costs (uniforms, instruments, etc).

Compared to a lot of the other marching bands in the country, some of which have well over 300 members (Iowa's is limited to 250) and take several trips a year (I swear that Notre Dame and USC have their band everywhere they go), Iowa's marching band budget is rather modest.

If anyone has issues with the marching band and their performances, they have a right to that opinion, much like they do with the coaching staff, and perhaps changes could be forthcoming (especially with the new director). But anyone who suggests the band needs to be cut down or even eliminated needs to go be a Bears fan - you'd fit in well with that miserable crowd.

 

[Rustys Dad]

I say "yeah" dump the band. He** let's get rid of those cheerleaders, too. Who the he** needs them jumping up and down on the sidelines all game and those outfits have to cost a pretty penny or two... And the stadium announcer ... I don't need someone telling me what's happening. I can see with my own eyes ...

 

[naturalmwa]

Sure. Maybe they should cover the costs of all the streets around the university also.

That doesn't seem very analogous. I'm not suggesting athletics cover the cost of the orchestra. But the marching band exists mainly for football. They should be funded by football. Cheerleading, security for games, snow removal around the stadium, etc. should be funded by the athletic department too, if its not already. Everything connected to putting the football product on the field should come out of that huge media contract we are fortunate to have. We should not be cutting student programs because taxpayers refuse to do their duty and pony up to fund the university.

 

[Herky96]

Before we defund the band, let's defund Iowa State University to eliminate redundancy. There is a place for Iowa State to teach Agriculture, Veterinary Medicine, Agribusiness, etc. as the Iowa Agriculture College and Model farm, but Majors and courses that are outside this scope of knowledge and offered by Iowa should be eliminated. That would save a lot more than defunding our band.

 

[DogBoyRy]

Many of you old enough to remember the Scottish Highlanders?

Yes..
And somehow iowa football and the school survied with their demise.

 

[CLUB215]

I wonder how much DJ Herky has to pay in rights for all the music he plays before and during the game?

 

[sultanofsuede]

Snoor. Wiscys band is 100 times better than ours ever dreamed of being.

yes, we need to funnel more $ into the band to meet your strandards. seriously - what is this thread all about?

i just picture people sitting around writing down stuff that they think is using tax dollars. just start that thread (a waste of tax dollars catch-all).

 

[cavhawk14]

Thanks for clearing up the spend question.
Still seems like a waste of $$.
Id prefer a pep band like stanford or privately funded.

The Stanford band is a joke.

 

[VicHawkeye]

When Iowa wins a BIG and National Championship, it'll be a lot better with the band playing In Heaven There Is No Beer instead of a recording.

 

[DogBoyRy]

The Stanford band is a joke.

Vs thriller for ten years in a row.
They seem to be a better investment.

 

[EastIowaHawk]

At least our band doesn't insult the other school each week like the Stanford Marching Trees.
If Stanford ever condescended to play in Iowa City, the band would all wear bib overalls and stagger around the field. I kid you not.

 

[DogBoyRy]

At least our band doesn't insult the other school each week like the Stanford Marching Trees.
If Stanford ever condescended to play in Iowa City, the band would all wear bib overalls and stagger around the field. I kid you not.

I think they are more clever than that.
I was one of the few who found the farmers only rose bowl show was kinda funny - compared to thriller ten years in a row.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

There has to be someone in the Ferentz family who can take over as band director. Steve?

Post of the day

 

[cavhawk14]

Vs thriller for ten years in a row.
They seem to be a better investment.

Not 10 years in a row, but a few times. And for me the best part isn’t even the halftimes, it’s the pregames. While Iowa doesn’t have the fancy traditions like Script Ohio or the tunnel formation at Michigan, it still is cool. The Iowa and Hawks formations have been around for decades and the playing of the fight songs really set college football apart. I would take that over Stanford and their trash can playing, not being able to understand what song they are even playing, and their ridiculous antics. It literally is an embarrassment.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Many of you old enough to remember the Scottish Highlanders?

Oh yeah. Just awful. Obviously very talented and hardworking, but completely misplaced at the halftime of a football game.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Kastens has neutered the band extravaganza as well

 

[The_Joker13]

I say "yeah" dump the band. He** let's get rid of those cheerleaders, too. Who the he** needs them jumping up and down on the sidelines all game and those outfits have to cost a pretty penny or two... And the stadium announcer ... I don't need someone telling me what's happening. I can see with my own eyes ...

Why are you censoring Hell?

 

[DogBoyRy]

Kastens has neutered the band extravaganza as well

Why?
If it saved a single penny I'm ok with it.

 

[Hawkeye3087]

I don't think there has ever been a more obvious candidate for corporate sponsorship.

The U of I marching band brought to you by Farmers Insurance? You could even have them play that "We are Farmers" jingle a few times a game. That must be worth a few million.

 

[Dauminator]

Yes I guess we need a band... always nice for parades and their contribution to such such classics as " In Heaven there is no beer" etc...

But the pre-game and halftime shows are so old and dated and the same dribble of boring non sensical songs played during the game have to improve. We need a band that will energize the student section and not focus so much to entertain the gray hairs .

Maybe with anew director life can be breathed into the stagnant band we have now.

Don't mean to disparage or alienate the members of the band now as they have always represented the U of I well and they work hard at what they do but they are only as good as the direction they are getting.

*warms up, all ready to answer the questions and issues raised*

. . . welp, I guess they're pretty much answered already. A couple more thoughts, though:

Iowa doesnt even give some band members an instrument? WTF

More like, Iowa gives a lot of kids instruments? The outrage! Think of the cost!

Most kids who continue playing an instrument into college will have their own. The likely exceptions are the large, expensive ones. Also, a marching band has an interest in uniformity. So the largest instruments should look the same, which is another reason the school will fund those.

I think they have trouble just getting enough people. I wish they were expected to play the music a little better, to be honest. Other bands, including Nebraska’s, are frankly way better.

You may be right about interest. It's up and down. Our section had years with two freshmen and years with like a dozen freshmen. Music majors are required to join for just one year, as I recall, and they drop off (don't know for sure since I wasn't one). The fortunes of the football team feed into the numbers. We certainly have one of the smallest. Michigan fields at least an equal sized band if not larger, plus like 100 "alternates." Speaking of Michigan, their band has their own building and lockers. Visiting there really drove home the difference Nike money makes for them. Holy cow.

Your comment about wishing we sound better is a bit strange. As Herky T Hawk pointed out, Prof. Kastens always stresses quality of sound in the HMB. It's one reason he employs a much larger wind section than other bands. In fact, Ohio State (and I believe Wisc as well, plus I'm sure others nationally) only have drums and brass. But he wants a fuller, concert band sound on the field. So in a certain view, we actually do have a nicer sound. But if you're wanting a big, brassy sound, then yeah we sound "worse."

That's the thing about bands, and PA music. You can't satisfy 70,000 people. While I'm all for more variety, it's a much harder job than you think. You tend to need safe options and it's easy to get into ruts, especially when you've been on the job for 20 years. I'm not excusing the man for retreading exact same shows more than once, which he's done. There's so much music and shows are so short there's no reason to ever repeat, but hey. Point is, you can't please everyone.

The new guy that gets hired will hopefully bring in a lot of new energy and modernization. When the band was awarded the Sudler trophy back in 1990 they had a director that was pretty forward thinking. When I was a freshman in 1999 I remember hearing the Seniors talk a lot about the previous director before Kastens and how everything, including the music played, was a lot more fun.

In addition to some other fine points, you make a couple good ones in this paragraph. The Sudler is the highest award an MB can get, but it's certainly flawed as you pointed out. I don't get how you can have an annual award for the "best" but then make it so you can't repeat winners. Anyway, the band has sure changed since then anyway.

There is a chance the new director will breathe new life into things. I know all fossils say this, but the band definitely was better back in the day and is getting stale in some ways. I wouldn't hold out too much hope. The same mindset athletics fans bemoan in the UI's administration are in play at the Music Dept. So I don't trust them to make a hire that will make an interesting or fun change. We can only hope.

The Stanford band is a joke.

This. Many times this. It's a co-ed frat that farts around on a football field. It's a total joke.

Not to say it's exclusive to Stanford. If the HMB was student led and director-less, you can bet your bottom dollar they'd be the same or worse. College bando-s are a weird bunch.

Kastens has neutered the band extravaganza as well

Wha happened?

 

[cidhawkeye]

*warms up, all ready to answer the questions and issues raised*

. . . welp, I guess they're pretty much answered already. A couple more thoughts, though:


More like, Iowa gives a lot of kids instruments? The outrage! Think of the cost!

Most kids who continue playing an instrument into college will have their own. The likely exceptions are the large, expensive ones. Also, a marching band has an interest in uniformity. So the largest instruments should look the same, which is another reason the school will fund those.


You may be right about interest. It's up and down. Our section had years with two freshmen and years with like a dozen freshmen. Music majors are required to join for just one year, as I recall, and they drop off (don't know for sure since I wasn't one). The fortunes of the football team feed into the numbers. We certainly have one of the smallest. Michigan fields at least an equal sized band if not larger, plus like 100 "alternates." Speaking of Michigan, their band has their own building and lockers. Visiting there really drove home the difference Nike money makes for them. Holy cow.

Your comment about wishing we sound better is a bit strange. As Herky T Hawk pointed out, Prof. Kastens always stresses quality of sound in the HMB. It's one reason he employs a much larger wind section than other bands. In fact, Ohio State (and I believe Wisc as well, plus I'm sure others nationally) only have drums and brass. But he wants a fuller, concert band sound on the field. So in a certain view, we actually do have a nicer sound. But if you're wanting a big, brassy sound, then yeah we sound "worse."

That's the thing about bands, and PA music. You can't satisfy 70,000 people. While I'm all for more variety, it's a much harder job than you think. You tend to need safe options and it's easy to get into ruts, especially when you've been on the job for 20 years. I'm not excusing the man for retreading exact same shows more than once, which he's done. There's so much music and shows are so short there's no reason to ever repeat, but hey. Point is, you can't please everyone.


In addition to some other fine points, you make a couple good ones in this paragraph. The Sudler is the highest award an MB can get, but it's certainly flawed as you pointed out. I don't get how you can have an annual award for the "best" but then make it so you can't repeat winners. Anyway, the band has sure changed since then anyway.

There is a chance the new director will breathe new life into things. I know all fossils say this, but the band definitely was better back in the day and is getting stale in some ways. I wouldn't hold out too much hope. The same mindset athletics fans bemoan in the UI's administration are in play at the Music Dept. So I don't trust them to make a hire that will make an interesting or fun change. We can only hope.


This. Many times this. It's a co-ed frat that farts around on a football field. It's a total joke.

Not to say it's exclusive to Stanford. If the HMB was student led and director-less, you can bet your bottom dollar they'd be the same or worse. College bando-s are a weird bunch.


Wha happened?

As an old guy I recall a little more spontaneity, some skits, some solos. Currently they come out, regurgitate the same songs from half time shows, same script from Lou. The only impromptu event occurs after the show outside CHA. A good thing unless the weather is dicey. It feels like an obligation now where it used to feel like a fun end of the season performance.