Is the Brands' era entering Zalesky level?

[vhsalum]

I absolutely believe it really had very little to do with his "double class" and so much more to do with his focusing on all the monumental tasks of running a program like Iowa.

For too long Brands appeared to rely to heavily on Iowa recruiting itself and didn't continue to actively strike while his cache was its highest. I also believe part of that was following too closely in the Gable philosophy of only really going after recruits that "fit" and then "coaching them up."

With the advent of social media, training centers blew up and it became infinitely easier for youth wrestlers to access, train and learn from top notch DI talent. As such, many top recruits became college ready and didn't need to come off rugged and gritty like many of the guys Iowa and Brands lived off of.

As good as Brands has been in many areas, I do fault him for letting Cael out recruit him to such a massive degree that now the gap is too big to even begin to close. That is the one and only ball that I will say he absolutley dropped...

Don't forget that Brands followed up that initial "double class" with the #1 ranked recruiting class:

Back when the 2010 recruiting class was signed, Iowa was the consensus #1 overall landing a monster class which was headlined by prep national champion and #4 ranked Mike Evans, and featured an addition three top 20 ranked recruits – #11 Nick Moore, #14 Josh Dziewa, and #19 Bobby Telford. Iowa also landed a pair of Iowa natives, #31 Jake Ballweg and #74 Mike Kelly, and #79 Anthony Baldosaro of New Jersey.

i think people forget that gable recruited ATHLETES.

Joe, TJ, ironside, schwab, Mac, Campbell, Banachs... and tom and terry brands were ATHLETES. Absolute freaks. And that's what Tom seems to be forgetting/missing.

 

[bbwretler]

That is beyond "cherry picking" when you don't account for Zalesky inheriting what was probably Gable's best team of all time!. Once Gable's guys were gone, Iowa went down rather quickly. He was never able to regain success, while Brands did in fact win another title and ABSOLUTELY had the best team 2 years in a row(Covid year sucked).

You simply cannot ignore the trend that Iowa under Zalesky was following. In Zalesky's last 3 seasons Iowa lost 16 duals. Under Brands you have to go all the way back to the 2011-2012 season to add up that many. In fact, the last 6 seasons, including this one, Iowa has lost 4 duals so far, 2 of those were PSU, 1 was OkState in 2019 and the other is Michigan from this season.

Any way you look at it Iowa is the CLEAR 2nd best team in the country while under Brands. You just simply have a juggernaught of epic proportions in PSU making the gap look more incriminating than it realistically should be. Meanwhile, under Zalesky, they were falling at a rapid pace and were looking at becoming a2nd or even 3rd tier team in the B1G.

Make no mistake, there is no way in hell Zalesky would have been able to bring Iowa back to winning like Brands did in 2020 and 2021. There is a very clear reason why they went after Brands at that point in time...

A couple things here. First I don’t think anyone is saying that Jimmy didn’t have to go. Second, Tom’s initial recruiting success was at a time when his name and past wrestling success was still vastly important. That along with Iowa‘s down turn at the time enabled Tom to pick up the three Iowa HS state champions. Lastly, you can not base your recruiting only on those athletes who have already indicated they would like to be a Hawkeye. You have to go out and SELL Iowa Wrestling. Everyone can form their own opinion as to why that IS NOT happening.

 

[MSU158]

Don't forget that Brands followed up that initial "double class" with the #1 ranked recruiting class:

Back when the 2010 recruiting class was signed, Iowa was the consensus #1 overall landing a monster class which was headlined by prep national champion and #4 ranked Mike Evans, and featured an addition three top 20 ranked recruits – #11 Nick Moore, #14 Josh Dziewa, and #19 Bobby Telford. Iowa also landed a pair of Iowa natives, #31 Jake Ballweg and #74 Mike Kelly, and #79 Anthony Baldosaro of New Jersey.

i think people forget that gable recruited ATHLETES.

Joe, TJ, ironside, schwab, Mac, Campbell, Banachs... and tom and terry brands were ATHLETES. Absolute freaks. And that's what Tom seems to be forgetting/missing.

That exact recruiting class actually falls quite a bit into what I was saying. It was yet again his kind of recruit, rugged and gritty without the true focus on DI ready and pure wrestling talent.

To be clear, I really liked Evans and Dziewa. But, I admittedly have a soft spot for their kind of style. However, all 4(Evans, Moore, Dziewa and Telford) came in with visible limitations and were about at their max capabilities from the get go. I don't care where they went, they weren't making any more significant level jumps.

The above is the big thing I think the staff learned after landing Kemerer and especially after landing Lee. However, now they are so far behind PSU in landing these guys that they are also competing for 2nd with many of these recruits and, much different than NCAA Tournament results, finishing as the 2nd choice in recruiting is literally the same as finishing last!

This is why I keep beating the dead horse. They HAVE TO take risks in going after guys like Ferrari and others with possible risks or chips on their shoulders. They can still go after the top guys and hope they can convince another DeLuca type, but they aren't going to beat PSU in a straight up recruiting arms race for the foreseeable future..

 

[bbwretler]

That exact recruiting class actually falls quite a bit into what I was saying. It was yet again his kind of recruit, rugged and gritty without the true focus on DI ready and pure wrestling talent.

To be clear, I really liked Evans and Dziewa. But, I admittedly have a soft spot for their kind of style. However, all 4(Evans, Moore, Dziewa and Telford) came in with visible limitations and were about at their max capabilities from the get go. I don't care where they went, they weren't making any more significant level jumps.

The above is the big thing I think the staff learned after landing Kemerer and especially after landing Lee. However, now they are so far behind PSU in landing these guys that they are also competing for 2nd with many of these recruits and, much different than NCAA Tournament results, finishing as the 2nd choice in recruiting is literally the same as finishing last!

This is why I keep beating the dead horse. They HAVE TO take risks in going after guys like Ferrari and others with possible risks or chips on their shoulders. They can still go after the top guys and hope they can convince another DeLuca type, but they aren't going to beat PSU in a straight up recruiting arms race for the foreseeable future..

NO, they have to go to work. Realize it’s not beneath a Tom Brands to actually sell the Iowa Wrestling Program. Taking risks that have a high probability of exploding just means you are not willing to change and adapt. The Brands style of wrestling is not and has not been working. The top wrestlers today are “athletes” and for the most part that is not who is being recruited by this staff. Adapt!

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Cox and Burroughs

Realistically, Iowa would need to target someone with a resume and high character deserving of the position. With the recognition if he comes from the freestyle Team USA channel, he needs to be near the end of his competitive career.

I don't know that he would take the position, but I can think of no better candidate in the immediate term than Jordan Burroughs.

PS - keep your hands off of David Taylor

 

[MSU158]

NO, they have to go to work. Realize it’s not beneath a Tom Brands to actually sell the Iowa Wrestling Program. Taking risks that have a high probability of exploding just means you are not willing to change and adapt. The Brands style of wrestling is not and has not been working. The top wrestlers today are “athletes” and for the most part that is not who is being recruited by this staff. Adapt!

Adapt how? Please let me know how they are supposed to miraculously pull these top recruits from PSU? I am 100% all ears.

"Going to work" isn't the answer. If they keep fighting PSU for the same recruits they are going to lose a VAST MAJORITY of the time and this is true of ANY coach right now. Instead, they HAVE TO pinpoint the top recruits that aren't directly focused on being in the best room with the best team. They need to find the kids that want to upset the apple cart. The kids that want to knock off #1. The kids with chips on their shoulders and maybe some risk.

If, and it is a significant IF, they can find success with these type of kids, it is basically the only way I see for them to open the door to recruiting more top talent kids.

Also, the Brands style isn't working because they don't have the kids to make it work. Are you telling me that they Brand style wouldn't work if they had Keegan O'Toole, David Carr or guys like Nolf, Nickal or even David Taylor? They are/were all fantastic hand fighters and work very well from inside ties.

Simply put, changing their style isn't nearly the issue with keeping up with PSU. Landing more top notch talent is. A lineup with a couple Spencer Lee's, a couple Austin DeSanto's, a couple Real Woods and a couple Jacob Warners could absolutley compete with PSU. The problem is Iowa has never come close to having that much talent on the roster at the same time since 2010...except for maybe 2020-2021....

 

[Fan In Black]

another thing that has hurt Brands, IMO, is that Iowa HS wrestling is not producing the talent that it was right before and shortly after he came back to Iowa.

It would be a huge advantage to have elite talent in your back yard obviously.

 

[vhsalum]

Adapt how? Please let me know how they are supposed to miraculously pull these top recruits from PSU? I am 100% all ears.

"Going to work" isn't the answer. If they keep fighting PSU for the same recruits they are going to lose a VAST MAJORITY of the time and this is true of ANY coach right now. Instead, they HAVE TO pinpoint the top recruits that aren't directly focused on being in the best room with the best team. They need to find the kids that want to upset the apple cart. The kids that want to knock off #1. The kids with chips on their shoulders and maybe some risk.

If, and it is a significant IF, they can find success with these type of kids, it is basically the only way I see for them to open the door to recruiting more top talent kids.

Also, the Brands style isn't working because they don't have the kids to make it work. Are you telling me that they Brand style wouldn't work if they had Keegan O'Toole, David Carr or guys like Nolf, Nickal or even David Taylor? They are/were all fantastic hand fighters and work very well from inside ties.

Simply put, changing their style isn't nearly the issue with keeping up with PSU. Landing more top notch talent is. A lineup with a couple Spencer Lee's, a couple Austin DeSanto's, a couple Real Woods and a couple Jacob Warners could absolutley compete with PSU. The problem is Iowa has never come close to having that much talent on the roster at the same time since 2010...except for maybe 2020-2021....

Going to work is the answer. It's the only answer. And it has to be in 2 areas.

Actually recruiting and actually peaking/not burning out/not having consistent injury problems. I keep hearing about how the training has changed, and that does seem to bear out. But we have to show kids they can win in march and they can win Senior level medals.

Also? We need to recruit better athletes. Period. Which means doing some identifying outside of just who wins and wrestle like Tom and Terry.

Tom has a TON of work to do, and chasing a cancer like Ferrari is going to end up... well. JUST LIKE IT ENDED UP.

The fact that he's holding on to this young man with plans to wrestle him next year is absolute insanity. Considering what he pulled at SS - WHEN he screws up again and is shown the door, Tom needs to go with him.

 

[vhsalum]

another thing that has hurt Brands, IMO, is that Iowa HS wrestling is not producing the talent that it was right before and shortly after he came back to Iowa.

It would be a huge advantage to have elite talent in your back yard obviously.

Sebolt is doing that. Creating Fargo/Super 32 champs. And tom is riding that wave at too high a clip, imo.

Because Sebolt guys are typical iowa guys. Grinders almost completely reliant on the handfight, can't scramble, issues on the mat and the worst part? injury riddled/burned out.

 

[khawk2009]

Tom has a type or wrestler he either recruits or tries to form once on campus. It is molded from a 1985 style of outwork and out condition your opponent. Techniques and training has evolved to the point his style and approach is somewhat outdated and to this generation Iowa wrestling is as distant as UCLA basketball. The program support is there but needs some new blood and excitement. Tom, Terry, Ryan and Bobby are effectively the same coach and it is slowly but surely putting this program on par with Michigan and OSU.

It really is amazing how each guy in the lineup wrestles the exact same style at the exact same pace.

 

[bbwretler]

Adapt how? Please let me know how they are supposed to miraculously pull these top recruits from PSU? I am 100% all ears.

"Going to work" isn't the answer. If they keep fighting PSU for the same recruits they are going to lose a VAST MAJORITY of the time and this is true of ANY coach right now. Instead, they HAVE TO pinpoint the top recruits that aren't directly focused on being in the best room with the best team. They need to find the kids that want to upset the apple cart. The kids that want to knock off #1. The kids with chips on their shoulders and maybe some risk.

If, and it is a significant IF, they can find success with these type of kids, it is basically the only way I see for them to open the door to recruiting more top talent kids.

Also, the Brands style isn't working because they don't have the kids to make it work. Are you telling me that they Brand style wouldn't work if they had Keegan O'Toole, David Carr or guys like Nolf, Nickal or even David Taylor? They are/were all fantastic hand fighters and work very well from inside ties.

Simply put, changing their style isn't nearly the issue with keeping up with PSU. Landing more top notch talent is. A lineup with a couple Spencer Lee's, a couple Austin DeSanto's, a couple Real Woods and a couple Jacob Warners could absolutley compete with PSU. The problem is Iowa has never come close to having that much talent on the roster at the same time since 2010...except for maybe 2020-2021....

In order to get top talent you have to go out and recruit top talent. That means actually selling them on the idea that they can be themselves, that you can help them use their athletic ability, that the Iowa/Brands style that everyone sees and hears about has or is changing. Thought that might have been happening with Kem and Spencer. Problem here is Tom won’t “adapt”, Tom won’t change. Your saying because PS is so good there is no hope in recruiting for anyone else is a losers attitude. If the staff and fans are fine with finishing in the top five and not concerned with being number one then don’t change, don’t try, DO NOT adapt . Tom’s problem is his way is the only way. Easy way, wait for transfers to come to you and or .take a short cut that is way way risky.

 

[MSU158]

Going to work is the answer. It's the only answer. And it has to be in 2 areas.

Actually recruiting and actually peaking/not burning out/not having consistent injury problems. I keep hearing about how the training has changed, and that does seem to bear out. But we have to show kids they can win in march and they can win Senior level medals.

Also? We need to recruit better athletes. Period. Which means doing some identifying outside of just who wins and wrestle like Tom and Terry.

Tom has a TON of work to do, and chasing a cancer like Ferrari is going to end up... well. JUST LIKE IT ENDED UP.

The fact that he's holding on to this young man with plans to wrestle him next year is absolute insanity. Considering what he pulled at SS - WHEN he screws up again and is shown the door, Tom needs to go with him.

What is this magical "work" recipe that will all of a sudden out recruit PSU? Because, I don't see it in ANY way, shape or form. As I said before they need to not waste all their time fighting over the same kids and do the research to find out which top kids aren't already a PSU lean.

Now, make no mistake, I am not saying they don't need to "work" very hard. I just HATE the generic "go to work" comment. It is a cop out that gives NO reasoning whatsoever. On winning more Individual Titles, we absolutely agree. However, I simply think we haven't lined up on how and who Iowa lands the recruits necessary to start winning Titles at a better pace.

 

[smalls103]

Don't forget that Brands followed up that initial "double class" with the #1 ranked recruiting class:

i never bought or was critical/skeptical of 'the double class'

it's not like they had more than 9.9.

totally within the rules.

 

[MSU158]

In order to get top talent you have to go out and recruit top talent. That means actually selling them on the idea that they can be themselves, that you can help them use their athletic ability, that the Iowa/Brands style that everyone sees and hears about has or is changing. Thought that might have been happening with Kem and Spencer. Problem here is Tom won’t “adapt”, Tom won’t change. Your saying because PS is so good there is no hope in recruiting for anyone else is a losers attitude. If the staff and fans are fine with finishing in the top five and not concerned with being number one then don’t change, don’t try, DO NOT adapt . Tom’s problem is his way is the only way. Easy way, wait for transfers to come to you and or .take a short cut that is way way risky.

Lol, it is that simply hey? Why haven't they hired you yet to make it happen? If you don't think they bust their asses in recruiting you should truly stick to basketball. Ever since Kemerer they have made a HUGE push towards revamping and going after top 10 recruits. In fact, they have actually landed way more since him than they did before him.

The problem is all of you just think Iowa should simply be able to do this without realizing why and how PSU is doing it. No matter what Iowa does PSU will STILL be doing what they do. They are the literal "pefect storm" in DI wrestling right now. They literally are #1 in EVERY aspect. If you try to simply adapt to what they are doing you will still finish 2nd in basically every aspect.

As I keep repeating, they do need to make changes, but those changes need to find areas that PSU isn't using and go hard at those. Because, make no mistake, they are absolutley busting their butts on the recruiting front and have adapted considerably more than most "fans" realize...

 

[MSU158]

i never bought or was critical/skeptical of 'the double class'

it's not like they had more than 9.9.

totally within the rules.

We don't always agree, and some of the things you do and say annoy the hell out of me and I already know you feel the same. But, I will 100% give you credit where it is due.

Along with this stance, I would put you at the top of the list for truly understanding recruiting as well as anyone can that isn't actually doing it as a DI coach. How in the hell do you see anyone realistically competing with PSU for talent in the foreseeable future? I just see fighting PSU directly for the same talent pool as a waste of resources. Put forth the hard and fast effort early, feel the guy out initially and make a decision early on whether or not to stay all in or put all your resources somewhere else....

 

[Pennstate1985]

What is this magical "work" recipe that will all of a sudden out recruit PSU? Because, I don't see it in ANY way, shape or form. As I said before they need to not waste all their time fighting over the same kids and do the research to find out which top kids aren't already a PSU lean.

Now, make no mistake, I am not saying they don't need to "work" very hard. I just HATE the generic "go to work" comment. It is a cop out that gives NO reasoning whatsoever. On winning more Individual Titles, we absolutely agree. However, I simply think we haven't lined up on how and who Iowa lands the recruits necessary to start winning Titles at a better pace.

Brands does not "lean forward" as a recruiter because he is uncomfortable in that role as a salesman. Many with that sort of responsibility are uncomfortable selling whatever they are selling. You CANNOT change that trait in a person. You need to find someone who can attach themselves to Tom and do the selling as Tom sits by and adds to the visit as the second person. In other words, go with * and Telford on visits to give emphasis to your interest and weight to whatever * or Telford are saying. Tom needs to follow up on visits or calls with his own calls. Show interest. Recruiting in the current landscape is more important than any other job duty a coach has these days. If you don't win in the recruiting game, it directly shows up at Nationals. I know Tom is doing some of the recruiting but is it obvious that he needs to do more. He is the most important guy in the program and he is the guy that sells your program. Unfortunately he is not a natural salesman.

 

[MSU158]

Brands does not "lean forward" as a recruiter because he is uncomfortable in that role as a salesman. Many with that sort of responsibility are uncomfortable selling whatever they are selling. You CANNOT change that trait in a person. You need to find someone who can attach themselves to Tom and do the selling as Tom sits by and adds to the visit as the second person. In other words, go with * and Telford on visits to give emphasis to your interest and weight to whatever * or Telford are saying. Tom needs to follow up on visits or calls with his own calls. Show interest. Recruiting in the current landscape is more important than any other job duty a coach has these days. If you don't win in the recruiting game, it directly shows up at Nationals. I know Tom is doing some of the recruiting but is it obvious that he needs to do more. He is the most important guy in the program and he is the guy that sells your program. Unfortunately he is not a natural salesman.

Do we know Tom isn't doing these things?

 

[rival_me]

If you haven't had a chance to read "Four Days to Glory" it goes over the recruiting process of Borchel and LeClere, and why they chose VT over Iowa, both coaches had a very distinct approach to both wrestlers. The results speak for themselves...

 

[vhsalum]

i never bought or was critical/skeptical of 'the double class'

it's not like they had more than 9.9.

totally within the rules.

I'm not critical OR skeptical either. But it is a fact. Iowa did not win those recruits. They had their own class, and when Jimmy got fired, a class that when to Virginia Tech followed Brands to Iowa.

I don't know if you are anyone else think that i'm being dismissive about or saying that its a negative. It's not. Its great coaching. But its a fact that a group of kids Tom recruited to VT - had they not followed him to Iowa - Iowa doesn't go on that run. I think we can all say that's indisputable.

The point is - since that happened? What has Tom done? 1 title. Called it a double class, call it a perfect storm, call it good coaching - Tom did a great job with a group of guys, and the majority of the points and culture came from a group of kids he recruited to a different school.

 

[vhsalum]

Do we know Tom isn't doing these things?

Yes and no.

He doesn't/hasn't with kids who he'd have to chase. If he knows you want to go to Iowa? The dude can sell. Look at what he did with Kemerer. There just needed to be more stories like that.

Oh. and not pay lip service to wanting the culture to change, but as soon as you get desperate, go after culture cancers.

 

[Fan In Black]

If you haven't had a chance to read "Four Days to Glory" it goes over the recruiting process of Borchel and LeClere, and why they chose VT over Iowa, both coaches had a very distinct approach to both wrestlers. The results speak for themselves...

I think about the chapter all the time. Especially when you hear stories about the recruitment of Gilman, Kemerer, Austin O'Connor, etc.

I wonder if TB is now acting like JZ. I have no proof of that. I just always think of the chapter.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Do we know Tom isn't doing these things?

If he IS doing these things, then he needs to be let go because he is ineffective. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. That said, my experience as a sales global manager and dealing with many, many sales people in different countries/cultures is that Tom is not as engaged as he should be. It's actually common, even among sales people. Most often a reticence to sell is due to a lack of understanding what you are selling, but in this case it seems to be more personality driven. Some people feel "selling" themselves or their product as unseemly or unnecessary and that makes them uncomfortable in doing it. I think that is the case here. I don't blame Tom at all if he falls into this category. Many people are great in some aspects of the job but less so in others. The goal though is for him to recognize this and strengthen this weakness. Just my two pennies and I don't mind disagreement. I say these things not as a PSU fan but as someone who has spent a lifetime managing sales organizations. Very few people are natural salesmen. It usually takes effort to become skilled. Many don't ever reach their potential.

 

[MSU158]

If he IS doing these things, then he needs to be let go because he is ineffective. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. That said, my experience as a sales global manager and dealing with many, many sales people in different countries/cultures is that Tom is not as engaged as he should be. It's actually common, even among sales people. Most often a reticence to sell is due to a lack of understanding what you are selling, but in this case it seems to be more personality driven. Some people feel "selling" themselves or their product as unseemly or unnecessary and that makes them uncomfortable. I think that is the case here. I don't blame Tom at all if he falls into this category. Many people are great in some aspects of the job but not others. The goal though is for him to recognize this and strengthen this weakness. Just my two pennies and I don't mind disagreement.

I don't mind your take and it very well may be true. I was just pointing out that it is pure speculation on your part.

 

[T8KUDWN]

Tom has a type or wrestler he either recruits or tries to form once on campus. It is molded from a 1985 style of outwork and out condition your opponent. Techniques and training has evolved to the point his style and approach is somewhat outdated and to this generation Iowa wrestling is as distant as UCLA basketball. The program support is there but needs some new blood and excitement. Tom, Terry, Ryan and Bobby are effectively the same coach and it is slowly but surely putting this program on par with Michigan and OSU.

It really is amazing how each guy in the lineup wrestles the exact same style at the exact same pace.

Really?? Because I definitely don't see every guy in our lineup wrestling the exact same style at the exact same pace...

 

[Pennstate1985]

I don't mind your take and it very well may be true. I was just pointing out that it is pure speculation on your part.

of course it is. Most every post on internet forums is speculation.

 

[12tdsaw]

i am a brands supporter, but burn out is not just for the athletes. alot of coaches burn out. i'm pretty sure tom reeled himself in for public perception purposes, but i miss the ball of fire don't screw with me guy. everybody has their view of what the answer is, but things could get worse with some of the ideas i'm reading. there is a need for an upperweight coach. i'm hoping for j'den after this oly cycle when he can be away from k. jackson

 

[MSU158]

of course it is. Most every post on internet forums is speculation.

But, you framed it as fact. There isn't a single word to indicate it is anything other than what you you know vs. it actually being what you "think"...

 

[bbwretler]

If he IS doing these things, then he needs to be let go because he is ineffective. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. That said, my experience as a sales global manager and dealing with many, many sales people in different countries/cultures is that Tom is not as engaged as he should be. It's actually common, even among sales people. Most often a reticence to sell is due to a lack of understanding what you are selling, but in this case it seems to be more personality driven. Some people feel "selling" themselves or their product as unseemly or unnecessary and that makes them uncomfortable in doing it. I think that is the case here. I don't blame Tom at all if he falls into this category. Many people are great in some aspects of the job but less so in others. The goal though is for him to recognize this and strengthen this weakness. Just my two pennies and I don't mind disagreement. I say these things not as a PSU fan but as someone who has spent a lifetime managing sales organizations. Very few people are natural salesmen. It usually takes effort to become skilled. Many don't ever reach their potential.

If he IS doing these things, then he needs to be let go because he is ineffective. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. That said, my experience as a sales global manager and dealing with many, many sales people in different countries/cultures is that Tom is not as engaged as he should be. It's actually common, even among sales people. Most often a reticence to sell is due to a lack of understanding what you are selling, but in this case it seems to be more personality driven. Some people feel "selling" themselves or their product as unseemly or unnecessary and that makes them uncomfortable in doing it. I think that is the case here. I don't blame Tom at all if he falls into this category. Many people are great in some aspects of the job but less so in others. The goal though is for him to recognize this and strengthen this weakness. Just my two pennies and I don't mind disagreement. I say these things not as a PSU fan but as someone who has spent a lifetime managing sales organizations. Very few people are natural salesmen. It usually takes effort to become skilled. Many don't ever reach their potential.

EXACTLY. 40 years in sales mgmt. You have to put yourself out there. Tom sees it as weakness in having to “ask”, “convince”, ”sell” kids to come to Iowa, so he does’t do it. Who thinks it is totally impossible to recruit against PS? Fan base, new facilities, tradition, and now money does not have to be a factor. Making excuses for not being able to recruit is the same as acceptance of being good but not striving to be great. Adapt and change or remain the same. The difference between Gable and Tom is that Dan was flexible while Tom is not.

 

[MSU158]

EXACTLY. 40 years in sales mgmt. You have to put yourself out there. Tom sees it as weakness in having to “ask”, “convince”, ”sell” kids to come to Iowa, so he does’t do it. Who thinks it is totally impossible to recruit against PS? Fan base, new facilities, tradition, and now money does not have to be a factor. Making excuses for not being able to recruit is the same as acceptance of being good but not striving to be great. Adapt and change or remain the same. The difference between Gable and Tom is that Dan was flexible while Tom is not.

Lol, who in the hell is saying that Brands doesn't need to figure things out? I sure as hell am not. My argument is you literally complain without ANY clear insight to an actual fix. You can talk out of the side of your mouth about being the best salesman ever, like EVERY OTHER salesman does. However, in no way does that make you an expert on recruiting, nor does it mean you have the slightest inkling of what Brands is or isn't doing and how to fix anything that may, or may not, need fixing...

 

[Pennstate1985]

But, you framed it as fact. There isn't a single word to indicate it is anything other than what you you know vs. it actually being what you "think"...

you are an obtuse man. You wouldn't happen to be a prison warden possibly? Say in Maine?

 

[Fan In Black]

you are an obtuse man. You wouldn't happen to be a prison warden possibly? Say in Maine?

 

[MAGAman]

Adapt how? Please let me know how they are supposed to miraculously pull these top recruits from PSU? I am 100% all ears.

"Going to work" isn't the answer. If they keep fighting PSU for the same recruits they are going to lose a VAST MAJORITY of the time and this is true of ANY coach right now. Instead, they HAVE TO pinpoint the top recruits that aren't directly focused on being in the best room with the best team. They need to find the kids that want to upset the apple cart. The kids that want to knock off #1. The kids with chips on their shoulders and maybe some risk.

If, and it is a significant IF, they can find success with these type of kids, it is basically the only way I see for them to open the door to recruiting more top talent kids.

Also, the Brands style isn't working because they don't have the kids to make it work. Are you telling me that they Brand style wouldn't work if they had Keegan O'Toole, David Carr or guys like Nolf, Nickal or even David Taylor? They are/were all fantastic hand fighters and work very well from inside ties.

Simply put, changing their style isn't nearly the issue with keeping up with PSU. Landing more top notch talent is. A lineup with a couple Spencer Lee's, a couple Austin DeSanto's, a couple Real Woods and a couple Jacob Warners could absolutley compete with PSU. The problem is Iowa has never come close to having that much talent on the roster at the same time since 2010...except for maybe 2020-2021....

Good points. I went back and watched some jeseroga matches! Man that kid was special. He had the brands style and gene. So unfortunate for us he changed directions but great pride in his passion and bravery to enter seal training.

Otherwise i think he could of challenged lees results. Especially with 125 landscape the next few yrs. Its deep but no hammers. He would of done damage for us.

I only brong up because he is exact type of kid that woupd fit so well.

 

[MSU158]

you are an obtuse man. You wouldn't happen to be a prison warden possibly? Say in Maine?

I am the obtuse one? You came on here acting like you knew EXACTLY what he was doing. You didn't frame it as an opinion you stated it as a clear fact like a politician would. Which is why I first asked if you actually knew if that is what he was doing. Because, if so, I would have agreed with you. So, obtuse is about as far from an accurate depiction as you could get...

 

[Pennstate1985]

I am the obtuse one? You came on here acting like you knew EXACTLY what he was doing. You didn't frame it as an opinion you stated it as a clear fact like a politician would. Which is why I first asked if you actually knew if that is what he was doing. Because, if so, I would have agreed with you. So, obtuse is about as far from an accurate depiction as you could get...

Are you Drax from Guardians of the Galaxy? I ask because his reflexes were also so fast that nothing went over his head.

MSU - I have literally read thousands of your posts across the internet. I am not getting into the mud with you. Your experience would beat me every time. Just move on to a fresher kill.

 

[MSU158]

Are you Drax from Guardians of the Galaxy? I ask because his reflexes were also so fast that nothing went over his head.

MSU - I have literally read thousands of your posts across the internet. I am not getting into the mud with you. Your experience would beat me every time. Just move on to a fresher kill.

Hey, I was actually polite. I even started my initial response saying that I have no issue with your opinion and that you may even be correct. I just think it is only fair to clarify something like that as being opinion instead of fact.

People aren't the brightest. Many read something, no matter the source, without any vetting whatsoever and take it as fact. They often even go a step further and start passing it around like it is fact. This is especially true of people that want it to be a fact...

 

[bbwretler]

Lol, it is that simply hey? Why haven't they hired you yet to make it happen? If you don't think they bust their asses in recruiting you should truly stick to basketball. Ever since Kemerer they have made a HUGE push towards revamping and going after top 10 recruits. In fact, they have actually landed way more since him than they did before him.

The problem is all of you just think Iowa should simply be able to do this without realizing why and how PSU is doing it. No matter what Iowa does PSU will STILL be doing what they do. They are the literal "pefect storm" in DI wrestling right now. They literally are #1 in EVERY aspect. If you try to simply adapt to what they are doing you will still finish 2nd in basically every aspect.

As I keep repeating, they do need to make changes, but those changes need to find areas that PSU isn't using and go hard at those. Because, make no mistake, they are absolutley busting their butts on the recruiting front and have adapted considerably more than most "fans" realize...

Lol, who in the hell is saying that Brands doesn't need to figure things out? I sure as hell am not. My argument is you literally complain without ANY clear insight to an actual fix. You can talk out of the side of your mouth about being the best salesman ever, like EVERY OTHER salesman does. However, in no way does that make you an expert on recruiting, nor does it mean you have the slightest inkling of what Brands is or isn't doing and how to fix anything that may, or may not, need fixing...

And of course you do. I have been involved since 1975…you? I could go on but really don’t need to. You agree you want change just want the change to be recruiting wrestlers that PS doesn’t want and go after. That would seem to he admitting defeat brfore even trying. I say put in the effort and go after the top ten rated wrestlers. Hell, you might be tight and we do not get any but I can tell you with certainty if we don’t try we never will.

 

[MSU158]

And of course you do. I have been involved since 1975…you? I could go on but really don’t need to. You agree you want change just want the change to be recruiting wrestlers that PS doesn’t want and go after. That would seem to he admitting defeat brfore even trying. I say put in the effort and go after the top ten rated wrestlers. Hell, you might be tight and we do not get any but I can tell you with certainty if we don’t try we never will.

If you thoroughly read, you would see I never said don't look at all top 10 guys. I simply said be smart enough to tell which ones are PSU leans and move away with enough time to go in a different direction if need be.

So, to be clear, do research to get to know each kid as much as possible. Make the full court press first day on each and feel them out. If you know you are in a dogfight with PSU, be SURE to set pride aside and determine how legit your chances are. Meanwhile, invest heavily in those you think PSU has much less chance in getting.

In another words, you don't fight an essentially undefeated and prized champion pit bull head on. This is true even if you are a monster Cane Corso yourself. Pick the best battles you can win and when possible you may try to snipe that pitbull from the side and especially from behind...

 

[wahlberg]

i never bought or was critical/skeptical of 'the double class'

it's not like they had more than 9.9.

totally within the rules.

So, you believe the following could have reasonably been recruited in the same class aside from the unique circumstances of Tom’s arrival from VT and bringing 4-5 with him?

Dennis
Slaton
Leclere
Metcalf
Morningstar
Borschel
Keddy
Beatty
Erekson

I think not, especially with guys like Perry, Falck, Fields, Luedke Magnani, Galanakis, Murphy, & Tsirtsis already there and getting guys like Tyler Clark, Johnson, Marion, Kerr, Janssen, Rasing, Wagner, Ballweg, Ballweg, McDonough, Moore, Gambrall, Carew, St. John, Ramos, Lofthouse, & Lofthouse to come in while those VT & Z recruits were still on the team.

I mean, let’s just look at the notable names of the class that replaced them (when Iowa was the clear top-dog).

Jacob Ballweg
Josh Dziewa
Mike Evans
Michael Kelly
Nick Moore
Bobby Telford

It was a great recruiting class, ranked #1 in the country, but it doesn’t compare to the 9 names of the 2010 class. No way would all 9 have been hawks if not for the unique circumstances of Brands coming back with his VT guys.

Nobody is claiming it was breaking the rules. They’re pointing out the obvious fact that it was a unique situation that Brands greatly benefited from through 2010, just as Zalesky benefited from Gables’ guys through 2000.

 

[MVPFAN]

So, you believe the following could have reasonably been recruited in the same class aside from the unique circumstances of Tom’s arrival from VT and bringing 4-5 with him?

Dennis
Slaton
Leclere
Metcalf
Morningstar
Borschel
Keddy
Beatty
Erekson

I think not, especially with guys like Perry, Falck, Fields, Magnani, & Tsirtsis already there and getting guys like Tyler Clark, Johnson, Marion, Kerr, Janssen, Rasing, Wagner, Ballweg, Ballweg, McDonough, Moore, Gambrall, Carew, St. John, Ramos, Lofthouse, & Lofthouse to come in while those VT & Z recruits were still on the team.

I mean, let’s just look at the notable names of the class that replaced them (when Iowa was the clear top-dog).

Jacob Ballweg
Josh Dziewa
Mike Evans
Michael Kelly
Nick Moore
Bobby Telford

It was a great recruiting class, ranked #1 in the country, but it doesn’t compare to the 9 names of the 2010 class. No way would all 9 have been hawks if not for the unique circumstances of Brands coming back with his VT guys.

Nobody is claiming it was breaking the rules. They’re pointing out the obvious fact that it was a unique situation that Brands greatly benefited from through 2010, just as Zalesky benefited from Gables’ guys through 2000.

I do give some credit to Zalesky for Dennis, Keddy and Erekson. He definitely did a good job of identifying talent with them.

 

[wahlberg]

Really?? Because I definitely don't see every guy in our lineup wrestling the exact same style at the exact same pace...

I think Brands’ system produces the following style, regardless of the recruit. When I say regardless of the recruit, I mean that the longer any wrestler is in Brands’ system, the more they approximate the following characteristics.

Pros:
Strong hand-fighting
Lots of pressure from neutral
Great position
Good baseline defense
Hard to score takedowns on
Pretty good stamina
Very good at getting away
Very good at not getting turned

Cons:
Difficulty generating points against top-15 opponents from neutral and from top position
Poor in scramble positions
High injury rate
Grinding/plodding style (one pace, one direction, one level, one pattern, one-dimensional, one angle, and the opposite of dynamic)

The results..

Pros:
Guys who weren’t expected to be top 20 guys often quickly develop into borderline All-Americans

Cons:
Guys who were expected to be elite rarely elevate their game and often wear down late in their collegiate careers to the point where they actually perform worse. Therefore, we rarely see multi-time finalists/champs from Brands