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Its eerie how accurate the Siena posters were about Fran.

archmage2002

HB All-American
Sep 8, 2002
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I remember that when Iowa hired Fran a few Siena posters came over here to congratulate us for hiring him and told us we had a great coach, but with a few warts.

1)He had a temper. Check
2)He was a good recruiter that could find under the radar talent. Check
3)His teams played a uptempo offense and would go on really hot/cold streaks. Check
4)He didn't like to use time outs. Check
5)Substitution pattern was baffling sometimes.(Forgetting about players, etc) Check.
6)Good FT shooters would become inconsistent as the season/career wore on. Check.
7)His teams would play tight and lose more close games than they won. Check
8)End of half and end of game offense would be questionable. Check
9)He relies more on senior than he should. Check

I am sure there were a few more that I missed that the Siena posters talked about. Just look at this list though.. it is completely eerie how everything they talked about is in play right now.
 
I remember that when Iowa hired Fran a few Siena posters came over here to congratulate us for hiring him and told us we had a great coach, but with a few warts.

1)He had a temper. Check
2)He was a good recruiter that could find under the radar talent. Check
3)His teams played a uptempo offense and would go on really hot/cold streaks. Check
4)He didn't like to use time outs. Check
5)Substitution pattern was baffling sometimes.(Forgetting about players, etc) Check.
6)Good FT shooters would become inconsistent as the season/career wore on. Check.
7)His teams would play tight and lose more close games than they won. Check
8)End of half and end of game offense would be questionable. Check
9)He relies more on senior than he should. Check

I am sure there were a few more that I missed that the Siena posters talked about. Just look at this list though.. it is completely eerie how everything they talked about is in play right now.

Where are these posts?
 
I remember that when Iowa hired Fran a few Siena posters came over here to congratulate us for hiring him and told us we had a great coach, but with a few warts.

1)He had a temper. Check
2)He was a good recruiter that could find under the radar talent. Check
3)His teams played a uptempo offense and would go on really hot/cold streaks. Check
4)He didn't like to use time outs. Check
5)Substitution pattern was baffling sometimes.(Forgetting about players, etc) Check.
6)Good FT shooters would become inconsistent as the season/career wore on. Check.
7)His teams would play tight and lose more close games than they won. Check
8)End of half and end of game offense would be questionable. Check
9)He relies more on senior than he should. Check

I am sure there were a few more that I missed that the Siena posters talked about. Just look at this list though.. it is completely eerie how everything they talked about is in play right now.
Won conference tournaments so the team went to NCAA's, otherwise couldn't have gone.
 
U would think Fran would learn from his warts and corrected some of them by now. Maybe the assistants should step in a little more.
If Fran has to learn anything from his warts, then he has more problems than a slumping basketball team.
 
Lickliter was a poor recruiter......check
He played a slow & boring game.....check
He was a poor communicator.....check
His players usually transferred out.....check

Alford was a good recruiter......check
He was arrogant and conceited....check
He could not get hot in the NCAA tourney....check
He alienated the fan base.......check
 
Sienna has not made the NCAA's since Fran left and are on their second coach.

2 Years before Fran
14-16
6-24

Fran's tenure
15-13
20-12
23-11 NCAA - 1 win
27-8 NCAA - 1 win
27-7 NCAA

Since.... No NCAA
13-18
14-17
8-24
20-18
11-20
20-11

Think Sienna fans wish they had him back? - Check
 
Pulled some of these out of my a$$. Check

To be fair all the posts on sports message boards come out of someone's ass. That's why these boards smell like crap.

Now, to the OP. I don't know if poster's from Sienna said all that. But I personally like that Fran and Kirk rely on seniors. It would be a really bad sign if guys got crappier as time went on. And please don't tell me how if Fran and Kirk played a bunch of frosh and sophomores things would be better. That's nonsense.
 
To be fair all the posts on sports message boards come out of someone's ass. That's why these boards smell like crap.

Now, to the OP. I don't know if poster's from Sienna said all that. But I personally like that Fran and Kirk rely on seniors. It would be a really bad sign if guys got crappier as time went on. And please don't tell me how if Fran and Kirk played a bunch of frosh and sophomores things would be better. That's nonsense.
Fran isn't in Kirk league. Kirk has two big ten titles, a big ten west title and undefeated regular season, two undefeated big ten seasons, an elite bowl win, second most big ten coach of year awards to no schembechler. I think of Iowa football as tough as hell, not Iowa basketball.
 
To be fair all the posts on sports message boards come out of someone's ass. That's why these boards smell like crap.

Now, to the OP. I don't know if poster's from Sienna said all that. But I personally like that Fran and Kirk rely on seniors. It would be a really bad sign if guys got crappier as time went on. And please don't tell me how if Fran and Kirk played a bunch of frosh and sophomores things would be better. That's nonsense.
Only be cause both coaches are relegated to signing freshman that, for the most, need to be coached up so as to have an impact on the program. If Fran could have closed the deal on Ulis would he have relied on the senior in front of him or would he have started the impact freshman?
 
I though Sienna taught us he liked solid PG/guard play. I have yet to see Fran bring in a PG that has any similarities at all to an elite PG.
 
And it was definitely said Fran likes a running, transition team. Hasn't been able to get the athletes he wants to play the type of game he wants.
 
Definitely agree that most of these are b.s. However, some coaches are great mid-major coaches, but not so great at a high-major school.

Sincerely,
Steve Hair
 
My friend read my post and told me I sounded like an ass who wanted Fran gone and that my points were pulled from that region too. I apologize for coming off like that.. I am a huge fan of McCaffery and I love how he has brought Iowa back into relevancy. I was perusing the board, seeing so many negative posts and one of them triggered my memories of SienaJay's posts about McCaffery. So I wanted to start a discussion on them and see if anybody remembered them.

So lets try getting this discussion reoriented. SienaJay gushed about Fran, but there was a few minor negatives(disregarding the temper) he mentioned that are now starting to show up. Most of these points were very minor things mentioned in passing.

Substitution's. He mentioned that it seemed like Fran would forget about players on the bench or giving some people a larger/smaller leash than others.
Time Outs. He said McCaffery tries to let his players play through and doesn't like to use time outs.
Starters/Upperclassman. This one was about how McCaffery would shorten the bench and relied on the starters/upperclassman to much. So by the end of the season they would have worn down.
Inconsistent Free Throw shooting. This one is so weird, but I swear I remember reading a Siena post mentioning that free throw shooting would get worse at the end of seasons and that the seniors would inexplicable deteriorate the most. This one I am hesitant on posting about because I don't know how this could happen and it could just be a coincidence.


PS: LOL at the 4000 posts, 7 likes. New board format and I have been a member since 2002.
PSS: ROFL at Fran's Wikipedia page. Someone(most likely a Iowa fan)snuck in an secret edit: His nub is 1cm long.
 
My friend read my post and told me I sounded like an ass who wanted Fran gone and that my points were pulled from that region too. I apologize for coming off like that.. I am a huge fan of McCaffery and I love how he has brought Iowa back into relevancy. I was perusing the board, seeing so many negative posts and one of them triggered my memories of SienaJay's posts about McCaffery. So I wanted to start a discussion on them and see if anybody remembered them.

So lets try getting this discussion reoriented. SienaJay gushed about Fran, but there was a few minor negatives(disregarding the temper) he mentioned that are now starting to show up. Most of these points were very minor things mentioned in passing.

Substitution's. He mentioned that it seemed like Fran would forget about players on the bench or giving some people a larger/smaller leash than others.
Time Outs. He said McCaffery tries to let his players play through and doesn't like to use time outs.
Starters/Upperclassman. This one was about how McCaffery would shorten the bench and relied on the starters/upperclassman to much. So by the end of the season they would have worn down.
Inconsistent Free Throw shooting. This one is so weird, but I swear I remember reading a Siena post mentioning that free throw shooting would get worse at the end of seasons and that the seniors would inexplicable deteriorate the most. This one I am hesitant on posting about because I don't know how this could happen and it could just be a coincidence.


PS: LOL at the 4000 posts, 7 likes. New board format and I have been a member since 2002.
PSS: ROFL at Fran's Wikipedia page. Someone(most likely a Iowa fan)snuck in an secret edit: His nub is 1cm long.

Edit after writing this post: It's WAY LONGER than I wanted. Read if you want, or just flame me for the wall of text. :)

I can reply to Archmage's re-statement of things that I and other Siena fans may have said, and agree with the four points mentioned above. These are all accurate. The free-throw shooting, I don't REALLY recall saying that, but there is something in the back of my mind that remembers possibly observing that as well.

The first three points above? Wholeheartedly agree with bringing them up in my analysis of Fran for Hawks fans. I always point to the Ohio St. win and the Louisville second round loss in that year's tourney as examples of each point. He shortened the bench to the five starters and Clarence Jackson as the sixth man, with Josh Duell logging minutes as the bench three point threat, and minimal minutes from a couple of other players.

And yes, he would always pocket time outs and let the players run the play calling down the stretch, and I explained further by saying this: The scouts that the coaches give these guys for each team are EXTENSIVE. Like, a binder full of info for each team. The players learns the plays, run the motion, and down the stretch of games the players are given the confidence to run the plays and execute independently.

What I saw two years ago, and what I'm seeing now, are absolute anomalies in regards to what I've seen from Fran coached teams before. Now, when the players are running the play calling on the floor at the end of close games, all we see is Mike dribble out the clock, drive the lane, and throw it up, out of bounds, get swatted, etc. I don't understand it. Never used to be that way. The Siena PG Ronald Moore was more athletic and WAY quicker than Mike, but I never saw Ronald try to penetrate as deep as Mike does at end of clock situations, and he would always seem to find someone on the wing or under the hoop to pass to, whether they made the shot or not.

You've got multiple three point shooters to kick out to on the dribble drive with Jok and Uthoff. You might have an interior pass opportunity on the drive to Woody or Uthoff. And, sometimes, Mike might even have the opening to score the ball. I don't think I've ever seen anything from Mike in the last three years where any of those pass opportunities came to fruition.

Last year, Whitey seemed to take over when the team needed to, and it worked, especially with the added threeball threat he became. Now? There's only Jok and Jarrod, but they still need help, and certainly haven't been given the ball in crunchtime to produce.

My bottom line is - like two years ago, something is amiss with the team. I don't know what it is, and I can't explain it. Transition isn't happening like I thought it would, Woody just doesn't seem to be given the opportunity to score inside (possibly because of the inability to finish at the rim) and I am grasping at straws looking for answers like everyone else.

As a fan I certainly wouldn't be calling for Fran's job. In regards to recruiting, he has one thing, in my opinion that he ALWAYS recruits: character. He does this because he needs kids that are strong mentally, and will be able to handle his coaching style. Read that as, "they need to handle his 'temper' when he 'challenges' them." I think there are men on the team that handle that better than others, and quite possibly the next group of players to take the reigns are the guys that will be able to incorporate everything better than the collective current group of guys.

Again, just my (more than) two cents here, and I'm as confused and frustrated as everyone else with this year's finish and two years ago, but I'm as confident as ever that the program is in the right hands and things will be fine.

Wow, I didn't want to write that much because TLDR, but my $2.22.

Go Hawks!
-Jay
 
And it was definitely said Fran likes a running, transition team. Hasn't been able to get the athletes he wants to play the type of game he wants.

I have often thought this as well. The moment they signed Woody I was puzzled because everything I had been led to believe was Fran ideally liked a team full of 6-4 to 6-8 guys who could run and push pace. A lot of interchangeable parts so to speak, 9 to 10 deep.

Seems like next year, that's exactly the type of team he'll have, either by design or not.
 
Sienna has not made the NCAA's since Fran left and are on their second coach.

2 Years before Fran
14-16
6-24

Fran's tenure
15-13
20-12
23-11 NCAA - 1 win
27-8 NCAA - 1 win
27-7 NCAA

Since.... No NCAA
13-18
14-17
8-24
20-18
11-20
20-11

Think Sienna fans wish they had him back? - Check

All the Hawk players and fans need to see this post. It gave me confidence and changed my opinions on a several things.
Well done and good work And1 Hawk !!!
 
I don't think anybody is doubting Fran's a capable coach. I think right now the creep Iowa fans are feeling is "is this as good as it gets?". And many aren't satisfied if that's the case.

Add in the utterly baffling "style" Iowa loses the last 3 seasons, often at a point in the season where they can seize control of going from good to great.

Those. Are. Agonizing. How many games is it now. 15? They ALL look the same. Every one has a possession at the end where they get a bucket, they put the game away. It's always one key possession late, most every time looking horrible in the process. The Illinois game being a classic example, almost a prototypical horrific loss.

I'm tired of seeing it. I don't want Fran gone...I just am tired of seeing those games still happening under his watch.

I don't want to watch the Temple game. I fear that's exactly what's going to happen. More Agony.
 
Edit after writing this post: It's WAY LONGER than I wanted. Read if you want, or just flame me for the wall of text. :)

I can reply to Archmage's re-statement of things that I and other Siena fans may have said, and agree with the four points mentioned above. These are all accurate. The free-throw shooting, I don't REALLY recall saying that, but there is something in the back of my mind that remembers possibly observing that as well.

The first three points above? Wholeheartedly agree with bringing them up in my analysis of Fran for Hawks fans. I always point to the Ohio St. win and the Louisville second round loss in that year's tourney as examples of each point. He shortened the bench to the five starters and Clarence Jackson as the sixth man, with Josh Duell logging minutes as the bench three point threat, and minimal minutes from a couple of other players.

And yes, he would always pocket time outs and let the players run the play calling down the stretch, and I explained further by saying this: The scouts that the coaches give these guys for each team are EXTENSIVE. Like, a binder full of info for each team. The players learns the plays, run the motion, and down the stretch of games the players are given the confidence to run the plays and execute independently.

What I saw two years ago, and what I'm seeing now, are absolute anomalies in regards to what I've seen from Fran coached teams before. Now, when the players are running the play calling on the floor at the end of close games, all we see is Mike dribble out the clock, drive the lane, and throw it up, out of bounds, get swatted, etc. I don't understand it. Never used to be that way. The Siena PG Ronald Moore was more athletic and WAY quicker than Mike, but I never saw Ronald try to penetrate as deep as Mike does at end of clock situations, and he would always seem to find someone on the wing or under the hoop to pass to, whether they made the shot or not.

You've got multiple three point shooters to kick out to on the dribble drive with Jok and Uthoff. You might have an interior pass opportunity on the drive to Woody or Uthoff. And, sometimes, Mike might even have the opening to score the ball. I don't think I've ever seen anything from Mike in the last three years where any of those pass opportunities came to fruition.

Last year, Whitey seemed to take over when the team needed to, and it worked, especially with the added threeball threat he became. Now? There's only Jok and Jarrod, but they still need help, and certainly haven't been given the ball in crunchtime to produce.

My bottom line is - like two years ago, something is amiss with the team. I don't know what it is, and I can't explain it. Transition isn't happening like I thought it would, Woody just doesn't seem to be given the opportunity to score inside (possibly because of the inability to finish at the rim) and I am grasping at straws looking for answers like everyone else.

As a fan I certainly wouldn't be calling for Fran's job. In regards to recruiting, he has one thing, in my opinion that he ALWAYS recruits: character. He does this because he needs kids that are strong mentally, and will be able to handle his coaching style. Read that as, "they need to handle his 'temper' when he 'challenges' them." I think there are men on the team that handle that better than others, and quite possibly the next group of players to take the reigns are the guys that will be able to incorporate everything better than the collective current group of guys.

Again, just my (more than) two cents here, and I'm as confused and frustrated as everyone else with this year's finish and two years ago, but I'm as confident as ever that the program is in the right hands and things will be fine.

Wow, I didn't want to write that much because TLDR, but my $2.22.

Go Hawks!
-Jay

Thanks Jay.. You are the best visiting poster this board has ever seen. Really appreciate your input. I fear that this team will always be missing that piece of the puzzle that puts it all together. We need a true BIG point guard. A BIG that can defend and finish. A couple of great 3 point shooters..A slasher that can blow by the defense.. Rarely have we had it all.. Closest was Davis first year coaching.
 
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