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JBo the activist

cidhawkeye said:
I have to continue to ask due to your lack of answers. Every athlete has the be an entrepreneur like you desire. They can sell their signature, their jersey, their shoes. Your desire to have it be done at the NCAA level is unworkable. The money will become concentrated, smaller schools with less well heeled boosters couldn’t compete. Remember rich people didn’t get rich by supporting unsuccessful ventures. College football would evolve into a club sport environment. The current structure would change dramatically. I know you have told us repeatedly that it won’t. The reasons you have given us.... because you say so. You haven’t really supported your premise. Now tell us how they are prohibited from being an entrepreneur.
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... because you say so right? Asking me to better support my points while providing zero support for your own. You know not one iota more than I do what would happen if players were allowed to profit off of themselves, so stop pretending like you do. I know for a fact that players at various schools across the nation in both football and basketball currently receive benefits beyond what has been allowed by the NCAA. And guess what? No implosion for college athletics. No club sports. Just an uneven playing field between the cheaters and the schools like Iowa. An uneven playing field much like the one that you so desperately want to avoid

“Now tell us how they are prohibited from being an entrepreneur”

LOL. I’m done. This conversation is going nowhere and will go nowhere if you can’t even see how NCAA players are prohibited from being entrepreneurs and branding/selling themselves. It is the premise to my entire argument.
 
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Alabama and Clemson have only played each other in two of the last three national championship games, and Alabama has made 50% of the title games in the past decade, while it’s pretty much a given that a top tier SEC team will make it every year. God forbid we decrease the parity in college football or college basketball, where Duke and Kentucky are basically a lock to stack their lineups full of top 10 recruits every year, and one of those two or KU/UNC is bound to make a to make a tourney run.
 
I think everyone agrees that NCAA players are prohibited from being entrepreneurs no one is arguing that. The point you are not getting is they have the opportunity to be an entrepreneur just not if they want to play for an NCAA school. No different than if I worked for Ford I would be prohibited from some ventures I may want to explore based on my employment agreement with Ford. This is all the NCAA is saying, if you want to make money on your likeness you will not do it while playing for an NCAA institution. If the money is really out there for the star player go make all the money you want, no one is stopping them. Everyone has choices in life, the fact that NCAA athletes have chosen to take a scholarship as opposed to selling their likeness is a choice each one has made and a choice that can be changed at any time.
 
Yeah we wouldn’t want the money in college sports to stop flowing to the corrupt non-profit known as the NCAA and into the hands of the players who allow it to exist. A damn tragedy that would be. I understand the current situation exactly. I also think it’s B.S.

Edit: I hope you guys know that this is the primary reason that nothing has changed, not some garbage sense of “we’re doing what’s right for the players”
 
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unoHawkeye said:
Yeah we wouldn’t want the money in college sports to stop flowing to the corrupt non-profit known as the NCAA and into the hands of the players who allow it to exist. A damn tragedy that would be. I understand the current situation exactly. I also think it’s B.S.

Edit: I hope you guys know that this is the primary reason that nothing has changed, not some garbage sense of “we’re doing what’s right for the players”
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Are you wanting to pay every college athlete or just certain sports or just certain people from certain sports?
 
SB_SB said:
Are you wanting to pay every college athlete or just certain sports or just certain people from certain sports?
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I want every participating NCAA athlete across all sports to have the opportunity to be enterprising and make as much money off of their own brand as they can while in the NCAA
 
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Look I was an NCAA P5 scholarship athlete and yeah I would have loved to have been able to make some money. Would people have been lining up to pay me 6 figures? No. Would the coaches and boosters have been able to arrange some money? Yes. Would I have taken it? Yes. Would I love to get paid to do some sponsorships today in my working life? Hell yes. Would my current employer (a fortune 500 company with revenues equivalent to the NCAA) have a problem with it? Yes. Do I have the option to find a new employer that would not have a problem with it? Yes. Do NCAA athletes have the option to find another athletic venue that would allow them to accept outside money? Yes.

The restrictions the NCAA puts on athletes are really no different than the majority of businesses in the U.S. There may be a lot of faults with the NCAA but the fact that the athletes agree to their parameters that are not much different than they will run into in the employment world is not one of them.

In my job not only does my employer dictate if I can receive outside income the state government does as well. I am restricted in how much I can charge, must disclose to the purchaser exactly how much I will make on their purchase, disclose any incentive programs I may qualify for, and can not ever offer two products that are the same but recommend one over the other if it would result in me (or my company) making more money, under penalty of jail. And guess what, my industry is nothing that is life or death. Compared to the regulations I face every day the NCAA is a walk in the park, I only wish I had the freedom NCAA athletes have.
 
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unoHawkeye said:
Yeah we wouldn’t want the money in college sports to stop flowing to the corrupt non-profit known as the NCAA and into the hands of the players who allow it to exist. A damn tragedy that would be. I understand the current situation exactly. I also think it’s B.S.

Edit: I hope you guys know that this is the primary reason that nothing has changed, not some garbage sense of “we’re doing what’s right for the players”
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You havent actually looked at the financials of the NCAA, have you?
 
The NCAA isn’t an employer and doesn’t pay athletes any money. The schools do in the form of scholarships. So I don’t know why the NCAA would care how its athletes choose to make outside money
 
The NCAA cares because it impacts their brand. The same way the NBA has restrictions around endorsements for players, to protect the brand. This is not rocket science. A player endorsing a beer company or accepting money from a donor who happens to traffic drugs are not good for the NCAA brand so to avoid issues they ban them all.

Does that money sometimes make it's way to players today? Absolutely. The difference is the NCAA has plausible deniability and can assess punishments to keep its brand clean. A lot may be ignored but you better believe if it came to light that a player was accepting money from a notorious bookie the hammer would drop, all to protect the brand.
 
Hawkdiver said:
The NCAA cares because it impacts their brand. The same way the NBA has restrictions around endorsements for players, to protect the brand. This is not rocket science. A player endorsing a beer company or accepting money from a donor who happens to traffic drugs are not good for the NCAA brand so to avoid issues they ban them all.

Does that money sometimes make it's way to players today? Absolutely. The difference is the NCAA has plausible deniability and can assess punishments to keep its brand clean. A lot may be ignored but you better believe if it came to light that a player was accepting money from a notorious bookie the hammer would drop, all to protect the brand.
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LMAO
 
unoHawkeye said:
I want every participating NCAA athlete across all sports to have the opportunity to be enterprising and make as much money off of their own brand as they can while in the NCAA
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So are you want the NCAA to pay the players or just allow them to have external business opportunities?
 
unoHawkeye said:
External business opportunities
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I just don't see how that would work. I'm not able to perform work for other companies if there's a conflict of interest. And there's no doubt there would be all kinds of conflict of interest going on because that student is representing the university number 1. If a student chose an opportunity that wasn't in line with the university then there would be a complete mess. No university wants to police all these kids seeking external opportunities. The cost to do this would be too great.
 
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unoHawkeye said:
I want every participating NCAA athlete across all sports to have the opportunity to be enterprising and make as much money off of their own brand as they can while in the NCAA
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Let me go back and respond to this older post. You mention players should be able to make money off their own brand. The problem is, that brand isn't their own. Their brand consists of the athlete and the university and the NCAA. Without the university/NCAA, the athlete wouldn't be a college athlete but rather just another person on the street.
 
SB_SB said:
I just don't see how that would work. I'm not able to perform work for other companies if there's a conflict of interest. And there's no doubt there would be all kinds of conflict of interest going on because that student is representing the university number 1. If a student chose an opportunity that wasn't in line with the university then there would be a complete mess. No university wants to police all these kids seeking external opportunities. The cost to do this would be too great.
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What kind of opportunities would conflict with the university and would require monitoring? Hawkdiver tried giving a couple examples in a previous post, but both of those were illegal and either not happening, or likely to end up with both the player and the individuals paying the player in jail. The alcohol endorsement was especially funny
 
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SB_SB said:
Let me go back and respond to this older post. You mention players should be able to make money off their own brand. The problem is, that brand isn't their own. Their brand consists of the athlete and the university and the NCAA. Without the university/NCAA, the athlete wouldn't be a college athlete but rather just another person on the street.
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And without the players, the NCAA generates no revenue, fails to exist, and schools don’t receive revenue from their profitable sports. It goes both ways, yet it’s the NCAA who holds the power (under the guise that they know what’s best for student athletes) and restricts both parties, to their own benefit
 
cidhawkeye said:
I just wanted to confirm that. I don’t think you understand what that report is and what it says.
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Lol no you didn’t. And I could not care less what you think unless you are going to provide an actual argument. Your “sit in the weeds and jump into the conversation to ask vague questions and try to pick apart my arguments when convenient” act is old. You aren’t speaking from any level of authority (having a kid play college sports doesn’t count) so man up and post an argument supporting your opinion otherwise you won’t be getting any more responses

And by the way, I can acknowledge that the document I responded with to L Wade’s comment was a poor one and that I misinterpreted the info. Maybe this article indicating that the NCAA turned a 105 million dollar profit that year would better support my point... “nonprofit”
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjTqOTd_rzjAhWXPM0KHZSTAyIQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://fortune.com/2018/03/07/ncaa-billion-dollars/&psig=AOvVaw01nGpiX0cO8ZRvdB2KzsgA&ust=1563488515299419
 
unoHawkeye said:
And without the players, the NCAA generates no revenue, fails to exist, and schools don’t receive revenue from their profitable sports. It goes both ways, yet it’s the NCAA who holds the power (under the guise that they know what’s best for student athletes) and restricts both parties, to their own benefit
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Just like the company I work for doesn't exist without the employees. The NCAA hold the power because it's their association. JBo can go start his own if he wants, just like I can go find another job if I want. The Athletes are just employees and they're getting paid the going rate.
 
unoHawkeye said:
Lol no you didn’t. And I could not care less what you think unless you are going to provide an actual argument. Your “sit in the weeds and jump into the conversation to ask vague questions and try to pick apart my arguments when convenient” act is old. You aren’t speaking from any level of authority (having a kid play college sports doesn’t count) so man up and post an argument supporting your opinion otherwise you won’t be getting any more responses

And by the way, I can acknowledge that the document I responded with to L Wade’s comment was a poor one and that I misinterpreted the info. Maybe this article indicating that the NCAA turned a 105 million dollar profit that year would better support my point... “nonprofit”
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjTqOTd_rzjAhWXPM0KHZSTAyIQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://fortune.com/2018/03/07/ncaa-billion-dollars/&psig=AOvVaw01nGpiX0cO8ZRvdB2KzsgA&ust=1563488515299419
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Much better. The other link had nothing to do with anything that has been discussed in this thread. My questions have been pretty specific and you haven’t answered one yet. Players aren’t getting paid? Sorry, I debunked that and guess what, having an athlete does support my position. No cash payments? They get those, once again because I lived it. ‘I want them to have a chance to be an entrepreneur’ they have that chance. Finally with you posting that the NCAA made money has an impact on the thread. Prior to that your ‘because I want them to’ approach has been redundant and essentially unsupported with any facts or hint of you having a background that understands the current system. Linking the median revenues and expenses of Universities did wonders for your credibility. Keep going, ‘because I want it to happen’ is usually followed with the stomping of your feet and holding your breath.
 
cidhawkeye said:
Much better. The other link had nothing to do with anything that has been discussed in this thread. My questions have been pretty specific and you haven’t answered one yet. Players aren’t getting paid? Sorry, I debunked that and guess what, having an athlete does support my position. No cash payments? They get those, once again because I lived it. ‘I want them to have a chance to be an entrepreneur’ they have that chance. Finally with you posting that the NCAA made money has an impact on the thread. Prior to that your ‘because I want them to’ approach has been redundant and essentially unsupported with any facts or hint of you having a background that understands the current system. Linking the median revenues and expenses of Universities did wonders for your credibility. Keep going, ‘because I want it to happen’ is usually followed with the stomping of your feet and holding your breath.
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Congratulations on “debunking” arguments that I haven’t made. I know that players get paid through scholarships. I know that the players get a stipend. I know that the players have an opportunity to be an entrepreneur outside of the NCAA. If you want to feel like you’ve taught me these things, then you can feel that way if it makes you happy. I haven’t answered your questions because I’m not doing all the work to humor you. Again, man up and pose an argument

“Because I want it to happen” is literally the entire reason I posted in this thread. I disagree with the current rules and would like to see them changed. I’m glad that this is finally clear to you. My original question was “why can’t this rule be changed so it can happen?” which YOU have not answered.

Also your opinion, or the opinion of pretty much anybody here regarding my credibility (especially when I made an honest mistake and owned up to it) is meaningless to me. I use this board for mental stimulation and discussing my favorite teams. Not to be credible in the eyes of cidhawkeye LOL... wait I forgot his kid played college sports maybe I should suck up more
 
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SB_SB said:
Just like the company I work for doesn't exist without the employees. The NCAA hold the power because it's their association. JBo can go start his own if he wants, just like I can go find another job if I want. The Athletes are just employees and they're getting paid the going rate.
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Players are pigeonholed into playing for the NCAA unless they are good enough to go overseas... which is increasingly becoming a trend unsurprisingly. Is a three star recruit going to go risk playing basketball somewhere else to try to make a profit? No, that would be stupid, especially since the NCAA is the level which gets the greatest exposure. The players generated 105 million dollars for the NCAA, but it’s the schools who are “paying” them. What a joke

I appreciate you responding to my posts in a conversational format instead of playing 20 questions
 
unoHawkeye said:
Not really sure what the message is here. The shirt says “Pay the Players,” implying that the creator feels that they should make a wage. The creator’s pinned tweet announcing the shirts,
View embedded media

seems to imply that he feels the athletes should be able to profit off of their own names and likenesses, which is a totally different argument and makes the shirts kind of dumb and nonsensical imo.

I agree that players should be able to profit off of their own “brand.” A salary/wage will never work. Just get rid of the one and done rule and let players who want to get paid, get paid
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I say double down on the stubbornness and make it a two-year rule like college football.

See how the NCAA product changes then.....










Of course when California opens pandora's box and makes it legal for players to get paid, that's the ballgame anyway (especially for righteously moral schools like Iowa).
 
unoHawkeye said:
Players are pigeonholed into playing for the NCAA unless they are good enough to go overseas... which is increasingly becoming a trend unsurprisingly. Is a three star recruit going to go risk playing basketball somewhere else to try to make a profit? No, that would be stupid, especially since the NCAA is the level which gets the greatest exposure. The players generated 105 million dollars for the NCAA, but it’s the schools who are “paying” them. What a joke

I appreciate you responding to my posts in a conversational format instead of playing 20 questions
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They generated far more than $105 million. That would have been the net off of what they generated. Keep working it.
 
unoHawkeye said:
And without the players, the NCAA generates no revenue, fails to exist, and schools don’t receive revenue from their profitable sports. It goes both ways, yet it’s the NCAA who holds the power (under the guise that they know what’s best for student athletes) and restricts both parties, to their own benefit
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You don’t think they can find kids to play for free school?
 
L. Wade Childress said:
You don’t think they can find kids to play for free school?
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No, I think it’s shady that the NCAA goes as a nonprofit, enters into a contract with a player who believes that they are entering into a contract with a nonprofit, then proceeds to not only profit off these players, but then pay nothing in taxes because, again, nonprofit. And then we assume that the NCAA, who is profiting, is making decisions and has rules in place that are in the best interest of the people who they misled and are profiting off of
 
unoHawkeye said:
No, I think it’s shady that the NCAA goes as a nonprofit, enters into a contract with a player who believes that they are entering into a contract with a nonprofit, then proceeds to not only profit off these players, but then pay nothing in taxes because, again, nonprofit. And then we assume that the NCAA, who is profiting, is making decisions and has rules in place that are in the best interest of the people who they misled and are profiting off of
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With all due respect, you are really stupid and not helping the matter
 
unoHawkeye said:
Players are pigeonholed into playing for the NCAA unless they are good enough to go overseas... which is increasingly becoming a trend unsurprisingly. Is a three star recruit going to go risk playing basketball somewhere else to try to make a profit? No, that would be stupid, especially since the NCAA is the level which gets the greatest exposure. The players generated 105 million dollars for the NCAA, but it’s the schools who are “paying” them. What a joke

I appreciate you responding to my posts in a conversational format instead of playing 20 questions
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Again it's the same thing in for my job. I'm in the tech world and I chose to work for a company rather than starting my own business. I wasn't willing to go it alone. Call me scared or just not will to take a risk, but no matter what the reason, I chose to get a job at a company and while I make a good living, I'll never be a multi-millionaire. I chose to not take that risk and take the easier way. The players have the same option, risk or no risk. There's more opportunity for money when you take a risk. But you have to be willing to take a loss. The NCAA is the safe route and so they're getting paid over $40,000 a year to play basketball and get an education. Seems like a good deal to me.

When looking at these types of situations, you can't get into a comparison situation or you'll drive yourself nuts. Just like work, I have to be happy with my salary and not focus on what co-workers might be making, or the CEO or the company as a whole. I have to be happy with what I'm making and the job I'm doing. If I'm not happy then I need to start looking for a new job.
 
I guess I don't see why an athlete endorsing a legal product would be illegal but I am not an attorney so I will move on to more "legal" examples.

Would the school or NCAA have a problem if an athlete was paid to endorse a legal supplement that is banned by the NCAA? In swimming the NCAA has banned certain "performance enhancing" swimsuits, would no one have a problem with an NCAA swimmer endorsing these suits?

These are two quick examples I can come up with, surely there are hundreds if not thousands more. Bottom line no one wants to police every deal that the almost half a million athletes could sign, it would be impossible.
 
unoHawkeye said:
You are a joke with zero ability to converse in a “normal” manner
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If asking someone to clarify their position, support their position with something other than their opinion or feelings and pointing out when they screw up while trying to support their position hoping nobody would read their link isn’t “normal” then I am good with my approach. If we want to just throw unsupported crap out there then I think that Iowa should be the National Champion every year because, well I think it should be and there is no reason that makes it impossible. Way easier than providing support for my premise.
 
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