Jimmy Carter passes

[joelbc1]

I did not know that.

Nixon was a huge Redskins fan and would frequently invite George Allen to the WH for lunch. Nixon frequently visited the ‘skins at their practice facility too. Nixon would send plays to Allen to use in games also. Allen stated he never used any of the plays Nixon sent him.

 

[TJ8869]

1976 Electoral College Map. Note that Vermont, Illinois and California, heck the entire west coast went Republican.

View embedded media

California was reliably Republican for decades. After Truman’s narrow win over Dewey in 1948, the Republican candidate won Cali 9 times out of 10. LBJ in 1964 was the only Democrat to carry the state until Bill Clinton in 1992, and it has been solid blue ever since.

 

[sober_teacher]

California was reliably Republican for decades. After Truman’s narrow win over Dewey in 1948, the Republican candidate won Cali 9 times out of 10. LBJ in 1964 was the only Democrat to carry the state until Bill Clinton in 1992, and it has been solid blue ever since.

Ironically, it was the Republicans themselves who were responsible for turning CA blue by ramming thru an extremely unpopular anti-immigration measure.

 

[preshlock]

China bought time after Tiananmen and witnessing the fall of the USSR by instituting some changes that at least partly covered over the cracks that decades of communist control had created. Unwittingly perhaps, Xi has undone many of those changes in his desire to maintain his rule.

Tianamen Square was about 35 years ago I would say the CCP has done a lot more than buy some time.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Yes, the mideast is totally peaceful.

Carter dealt with the Israel-Egypt conflict and that has lasted.

Yet here you are dissing him because he didn't solve all Middle Eastern problems?

Conservatives. SMH.

 

[jonesy5960]

Yeah, look how that has held up over time...

Yeah. Barely 45 years of peace between Egypt and Israel. What a disaster.

 

[jonesy5960]

I recall the leftists on this board taking trash about Rush after his death, so as they say, you reap what you sow.

It's not always about politics. Rush was a piece of shit. I get it. You saw him as your piece of shit. Just like you see Trump as your piece of shit. There are liberal pieces of shit and conservative pieces of shit. Certainly not all conservatives are pieces of shit, just your heroes apparently.

 

[Aardvark86]

Like all presidents, Carter was part baby and part bath water. The Camp David Accords were probably his greatest success, and his important role in actually beginning some of defense weapons system development that took off in the 80s is often understated. At the same time, by the time 1980 rolled around, between his management of economic conditions, energy, Iran, and some other matters, the reality is that as a country, we all felt pretty beat up and, frankly, adrift - the 1980 electoral map doesn't lie on that front.

I'm a big believer that we tend to get the president we need at any given time (whether we like them or not), so it's also important not to forget the front end. The late 60s and the first half of the 1970s were a train wreck - politically, morally, economically, culturally, and most importantly, in terms of the collective values that are about the only thing that defines what an American is. So yeah, he also inherited a shit show, and he did a lot to right the ship on those fronts.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Certainly not all conservatives are pieces of shit

Are you sure . . . ?

 

[Aardvark86]

On a lighter note, a poll:

Ask President Carter:


OR

The Pepsi Syndrome:

 

[jonesy5960]

Are you sure . . . ?

Nah. Broad brush strokes are never accurate or helpful. A disagreement on policy doesn't automatically make someone a piece of shit. There are single issue folks (I'm thinking Pro Lifers as an example) who believe in their cause above all else, many of whom are good and decent people.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Nah. Broad brush strokes are never accurate or helpful. A disagreement on policy doesn't automatically make someone a piece of shit. There are single issue folks (I'm thinking Pro Lifers as an example) who believe in their cause above all else, many of whom are good and decent people.

I generally agree.

Although . . . people who defend genocide . . . .

 

[sober_teacher]

Tianamen Square was about 35 years ago I would say the CCP has done a lot more than buy some time.

Again, Chinese learned from it and the fall of the Soviets and instituted several reforms that actually brought them closer to the West.

Xi has undone many of those, including limits on how long party officials can serve.

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

Again, Chinese learned from it and the fall of the Soviets and instituted several reforms that actually brought them closer to the West.

Xi has undone many of those, including limits on how long party officials can serve.

Communists mostly are into control and learned financial exploitation.

 

[Ree4]

Sure, but by the 80s the infrastructure was crumbling.

Empires built on terror and conquest always fall in the end - a lesson that history feels compelled to teach us over and over again. It will happen in China and North Korea someday as well.

Sounds like you're referring to the US

 

[Ree4]

Communists mostly are into control and learned financial exploitation.

That's how they lifted 800 million people out of poverty? Exploitation?

Lifting 800 Million People Out of Poverty – New Report Looks at Lessons from China’s Experience

Over the past 40 years, China has lifted nearly 800 million people out of poverty, accounting for more than 75 percent of global poverty reduction in the same period, according to a new report released on Thursday.

www.worldbank.org

 

[abby97]

Rush was a horrible human being along with trump and Murdoch a veritable hall of fame of shitty human beings.

This is why people keep telling you that you aren't that bright. You can't even differentiate between political philosophy and intelligence.

 

[IIowaFarmBoy]

That's how they lifted 800 million people out of poverty? Exploitation?

Lifting 800 Million People Out of Poverty – New Report Looks at Lessons from China’s Experience

Over the past 40 years, China has lifted nearly 800 million people out of poverty, accounting for more than 75 percent of global poverty reduction in the same period, according to a new report released on Thursday.

www.worldbank.org

We are all useful idiots. China is still poor.

 

[Kelsers]

Like all presidents, Carter was part baby and part bath water. The Camp David Accords were probably his greatest success, and his important role in actually beginning some of defense weapons system development that took off in the 80s is often understated. At the same time, by the time 1980 rolled around, between his management of economic conditions, energy, Iran, and some other matters, the reality is that as a country, we all felt pretty beat up and, frankly, adrift - the 1980 electoral map doesn't lie on that front.

I'm a big believer that we tend to get the president we need at any given time (whether we like them or not), so it's also important not to forget the front end. The late 60s and the first half of the 1970s were a train wreck - politically, morally, economically, culturally, and most importantly, in terms of the collective values that are about the only thing that defines what an American is. So yeah, he also inherited a shit show, and he did a lot to right the ship on those fronts.

Riiight... 🤣

 

[sober_teacher]

Sounds like you're referring to the US

Father Time is undefeated in this. All governments fall in the end, even ours one day.

 

[preshlock]

Again, Chinese learned from it and the fall of the Soviets and instituted several reforms that actually brought them closer to the West.

Xi has undone many of those, including limits on how long party officials can serve.

in general why do you think China was able to adapt & the Soviet Union could not?

 

[1Hammers1]

Nothing like an 18 percent mortgage rate, nothing like only being able to buy gas on certain days based on the last digit of your tag. Nothing like waiting in line for hours to get gas . Oh yea Jimmy was worse than Biden much much worse.

 

[sober_teacher]

in general why do you think China was able to adapt & the Soviet Union could not?

Shooting from the hip, but at least partly imo because China had the benefit of watching the soviets implode and seeing what they did that didn’t work. Soviets also had the add difficulty of dealing with a considerably more diverse population with all those eastern bloc countries wanting independence instead of reform as well.

And then a military that was ground down and demoralized after their defeat in Afghanistan.

 

[preshlock]

Shooting from the hip, but at least partly imo because China had the benefit of watching the soviets implode and seeing what they did that didn’t work. Soviets also had the add difficulty of dealing with a considerably more diverse population with all those eastern bloc countries wanting independence instead of reform as well.

And then a military that was ground down and demoralized after their defeat in Afghanistan.

I would go with the diversity of the Soviet Union as being the major problem. For the most part the different Soviet Republics became sovereign countries largely along the boundaries they had existed within the Soviet Empire. That was not a coincidence.

I think along with that enough steps had been taken to open Soviet society so the level of severe intimidation didn't exist anymore. Certainly the Soviet Union until the end was a very oppressive state but the absolute terror of the Stalin years was a thing of the past even then.

To me Afghanistan made clear problems within the Soviet Union that couldn't be hidden as in the past along the same lines as Chernobyl did. But these really more or less coincided with & magnified problems than anything else. I've actually done a decent amount of reading about Afghanistan & the Soviets were sort of half assing it. More or less added to the general disillusion with the Soviet state than actually causing crippling harm.

 

[lucas80]

I would go with the diversity of the Soviet Union as being the major problem. For the most part the different Soviet Republics became sovereign countries largely along the boundaries they had existed within the Soviet Empire. That was not a coincidence.

I think along with that enough steps had been taken to open Soviet society so the level of severe intimidation didn't exist anymore. Certainly the Soviet Union until the end was a very oppressive state but the absolute terror of the Stalin years was a thing of the past even then.

To me Afghanistan made clear problems within the Soviet Union that couldn't be hidden as in the past along the same lines as Chernobyl did. But these really more or less coincided with & magnified problems than anything else. I've actually done a decent amount of reading about Afghanistan & the Soviets were sort of half assing it. More or less added to the general disillusion with the Soviet state than actually causing crippling harm.

China didn't get involved in a hot Cold War like the USSR did, and bleed away money they didn't have. China spent decades trying to build up their economy. They still have hundreds of millions of people living in poverty, but they never got to adventurous.

 

[The Tradition]

China didn't get involved in a hot Cold War like the USSR did, and bleed away money they didn't have. China spent decades trying to build up their economy. They still have hundreds of millions of people living in poverty, but they never got to adventurous.

I am honestly surprised China hasn't invaded Taiwan while we're busy dealing with Russia vs. Ukraine and Israel vs. everyone.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Jimmy Carter: Rock & Roll President (2020) ⭐ 7.5 | Documentary, History, Music

1h 35m

www.imdb.com

 

[1Hammers1]

Jimmy handing over the Panama canal to the Chinese was right up there with Biden giving 500 billion to Ukraine. . No wonder the liberals love him. Nothing like waiting in line for gas. 18 percent mortgage. The price of a new car was double. Hmm just like biden, Carter sucked bad. Biden hurt the country even worse.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Jimmy handing over the Panama canal to the Chinese was right up there with Biden giving 500 billion to Ukraine. . No wonder the liberals love him. Nothing like waiting in line for gas. 18 percent mortgage. The price of a new car was double. Hmm just like biden, Carter sucked bad. Biden hurt the country even worse.

What's amazing is that a lot of idiots actually believe shit like this.

 

[goldmom]

True story: one of my late hubby’s teammates was a pretty sharp guy and graduated on time with honors in Criminology, spent a couple of years with the NFL and came back to Tally with a job offer to join the FDLE. He was assigned to Governor Askew’s security detail. Pretty decent job but his goal was either FBI or Secret Service.
He made Secret Service first in early 1976. He called to tell my Hubby that he and his wife would be moving. We got together for dinner and he said his first assignment was campaign security for some guy who was running but he didn’t think it would go on long since he was not well known.
Of course it was Jimmy Carter. IIRC many folks saw Ted Kennedy as a front runner at the time.

Our friend had a fantastic career with the SS and is retired now - not far from a training center up near Brunswick Georgia where he occasionally consults. Just a super guy.

 

[lucas80]

I briefly looked for the services, and it looks like a period of public display in Plains, then transport to DC where he will lay in rest in the Capitol, then a funeral at the National Cathedral next Thursday. I assume that will have a lot of pomp. A private internment will be held in Plains. My curiosity is for a man who eschewed the limelight he was part of a very exclusive club, and those funerals are big deals. As a Navy veteran I wonder if there might be a flyover honoring his service, but the military duties are carried out by all branches.

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

RIP

Of the many presidential bios and memoirs I’ve read, none match his with respect to the level of political naivety that came through.

Actually he was a pretty damn good president considering the effed up mess he inherited from Nixon and Ford.

From his best bio (The Outlier) to thd Fresh Air retrospective and the American Experience documentary, my conclusion is that he was underrated as a President, and overrated as a politician.

Yes, he was a major underdog who won the Presidency, but Gerald Ford had Nixon’s legacy and bumbling persona while Ted Kennedy’s personal demons did him in, presenting Carter a gift. Carter was America’s reactionary vote against the grift and dishonesty of Nixon. Perfect timing for a fighter of grift like he was (see his takedown of rural Georgia political bosses). He also made horrible political calculations because of his humanity: after the high of his popularity in ‘78 and the Camp David Accords, he went on foreign relations quests around the globe while the inflation and oil embargo crushed Americans here. He abandoned his strongest allies in cutting poverty programs first in his austerity budget. And he accepted the Shah in America to get treatment for cancer when it inflamed the Iranian Revolutionaries. Their waiting until after the election and inauguration ceremony of Reagan was their middle finger (though now we know Reagan and his people actively lobbied for Americans to be held there, and we know all about his “arms for hostages” position).

But he got a lot of consequential legislation passed. The budget deficit was down and employment was up by the end of his presidency. He increased government efficiency by deregulating cargo on trucking and flights. Yet he did increase social services, expanded national parklands, and signed significant environmental regulations into law.

 

[Aardvark86]

I briefly looked for the services, and it looks like a period of public display in Plains, then transport to DC where he will lay in rest in the Capitol, then a funeral at the National Cathedral next Thursday. I assume that will have a lot of pomp. A private internment will be held in Plains. My curiosity is for a man who eschewed the limelight he was part of a very exclusive club, and those funerals are big deals. As a Navy veteran I wonder if there might be a flyover honoring his service, but the military duties are carried out by all branches.

There is a fairly significant “menu” that presidents get to pick from when planning their state funerals. I know he is being taken from Andrews to the navy memorial down town and then to the capitol to lie in repose. Not sure of the logistics to the cathedral.

To the extent any of you will be in dc during the ceremonies, while I dont know the details yet, my plan is to pay my respects by watching the caisson processional pass by, as I try to do for every president that passes. Lmk if you will be in town; happy to connect and perhaps raise a glass to the former president.

Edit: missing man will be in ga at his interment. Caisson procession to Capitol Tuesday at 2 from the navy memorial, presumably along pa ave

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I am honestly surprised China hasn't invaded Taiwan while we're busy dealing with Russia vs. Ukraine and Israel vs. everyone.

I'm not ruling out a future invasion if the calculus changes, especially if Trump stops assisting Ukraine and starts trading with Russia again or he starts another trade war with China.

But for the moment China is answering the question of if they would rather have over a half a trillion dollars a year in trade with the US or if they would rather have Taiwan.

China is making money hand over fist by trading with the US and the west in general. As much as they would like to own Taiwan they know that gravy train likely stops if they move against Taiwan.

The concerning thing is the calculus of that can change if we stop defending Ukraine, start trading again with Russia, and/or start a trade war with China. The first two we signal that we essentially will let them attack Taiwan without cutting off the gravy train and the second one cuts off the gravy train anyways and sort of puts them in a position of "why the hell not"

But for right now trade is keeping them from doing anything too drastic. Authoritarian governments need enemies so they are always going to talk about us as threats and make subtle threats of their own. But as long as the money keeps rolling in and we also make it very clear that it will stop of they do anything that jeopardizes the peace, they will stay onside.

 

[OrlandNole]

It's conceivable (and most likely) that our two most recent presidents will pass on before the three previous ones.

 

[stillh8unlv]

That's how they lifted 800 million people out of poverty? Exploitation?

Lifting 800 Million People Out of Poverty – New Report Looks at Lessons from China’s Experience

Over the past 40 years, China has lifted nearly 800 million people out of poverty, accounting for more than 75 percent of global poverty reduction in the same period, according to a new report released on Thursday.

www.worldbank.org

The West's unflinching desire for cheap labor did that.

The USA built the two largest middle classes in history, first in the US in the 50's, then in China 40-50 years later.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

It's conceivable (and most likely) that our two most recent presidents will pass on before the three previous ones.

Trump is slightly older than both George W. Bush and Clinton. But only by months.

Biden is 4 years older than all of them.

 

[Rifler]

in general why do you think China was able to adapt

Actually, I'd say that China hasn't been able to adapt,.. They're merely riding an economic wave that has already begun to collapse.

 

[sober_teacher]

I'm not ruling out a future invasion if the calculus changes, especially if Trump stops assisting Ukraine and starts trading with Russia again or he starts another trade war with China.

But for the moment China is answering the question of if they would rather have over a half a trillion dollars a year in trade with the US or if they would rather have Taiwan.

China is making money hand over fist by trading with the US and the west in general. As much as they would like to own Taiwan they know that gravy train likely stops if they move against Taiwan.

The concerning thing is the calculus of that can change if we stop defending Ukraine, start trading again with Russia, and/or start a trade war with China. The first two we signal that we essentially will let them attack Taiwan without cutting off the gravy train and the second one cuts off the gravy train anyways and sort of puts them in a position of "why the hell not"

But for right now trade is keeping them from doing anything too drastic. Authoritarian governments need enemies so they are always going to talk about us as threats and make subtle threats of their own. But as long as the money keeps rolling in and we also make it very clear that it will stop of they do anything that jeopardizes the peace, they will stay onside.

I think in the short term at least, they were a bit surprised at how Biden/Blinken was able to rally the West behind supporting Ukraine. imo, had Ukraine been left to fend for itself that would have affected their calculations.

In the end tho I think it's a massive cost/benefit analysis for China. If they are willing to pay the piper, they could successfully seize Taiwan...BUT it would not be cheap nor easy; I think to an extent it would become their Afghanistan when thinking about the impact on their military.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I think in the short term at least, they were a bit surprised at how Biden/Blinken was able to rally the West behind supporting Ukraine. imo, had Ukraine been left to fend for itself that would have affected their calculations.

In the end tho I think it's a massive cost/benefit analysis for China. If they are willing to pay the piper, they could successfully seize Taiwan...BUT it would not be cheap nor easy; I think to an extent it would become their Afghanistan when thinking about the impact on their military.

I'm not sure it would become their Afganistan. It's very difficult for a guerilla insurgency to be successful in population dense areas.

But they would have to pay a significant price in lost trade if they did. That trade has funded everything from their major infrastructure projects to the expansion of their navy.