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Joe T, he gone

I’d actually say this opens up an interesting discussion on player development under this coaching staff.

So all the 3* Iowa recruits that wound up on the 1st Team All-B1G under this staff were merely happenstance? Not every player is going to continue to improve. Some hit their ceiling early. That's just a fact. Think J.R. Angle. 247Sports still has him listed as the 9th highest ranked recruit in Iowa's history. How did that work out for us?

I haven't given up on JoeT. He showed flashes of real ability last season. Several game commentators mentioned how dangerous he was going to be. I just think he's looking over his shoulder at Ulis and pressing this year. He's making stupid unforced TO's and still driving into traffic with nowhere to go. In the B1G, that's a ticket to the bench on every team. I hope he stays and redoubles his efforts to get better as I still think he's got a lot of raw talent.
 
It would do you some good to check out the offensive ratings of Joe T vs Connor. It's not close.

Check CMAC at the 4 vs Keegan.

JoeT should be playing guard minutes out of JBO time, but I agree JoeT has had too many turnovers. Having a short leash doesn't help. It is not like PMAC hasn't been a bricklayer at times...his line yesterday was 0-4 and one turnover....you don't see quick PMAC hooks.

With Nunge likely out, JBO two rebuilt hips, Garza running on fumes, Fredrick not healthy...not surprising they lost to Michigan. This is solid Iowa team, just not elite.
 
Check CMAC at the 4 vs Keegan.

JoeT should be playing guard minutes out of JBO time, but I agree JoeT has had too many turnovers. Having a short leash doesn't help. It is not like PMAC hasn't been a bricklayer at times...his line yesterday was 0-4 and one turnover....you don't see quick PMAC hooks.

With Nunge likely out, JBO two rebuilt hips, Garza running on fumes, Fredrick not healthy...not surprising they lost to Michigan. This is solid Iowa team, just not elite.
Guards have to be able to shoot. Toussaint is not shooting this year.
 
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I’m not saying every player has regressed. I just think of a few like Uthoff and Jok that came to mind where I think everyone expected big things their last year and I remember feeling like they took a step the wrong direction and I would be curious to look at how each player developed over the years under this coaching staff. I’m not even saying there is a problem. I just think it would be an interesting discussion.

I also didn’t say the coaching staff had nothing to do with Garza, I just think we all know Garza put in a lot of work on his own and with his dad to improve his game. I don’t think the coaches deserve all the credit for Garza.

I’m not in the practices so I don’t get the luxury of seeing how they performed as freshmen in practice or anything. Just something I’m curious about.
2nd Team All American and 1st Team All Big Ten Jarrod Uthoff, and AP Honorable Mention All American and 1st Team All Big Ten Peter Jok?
 
2nd Team All American and 1st Team All Big Ten Jarrod Uthoff, and AP Honorable Mention All American and 1st Team All Big Ten Peter Jok?

I don’t mean they got worse, just didn’t feel like they took step up. Just felt like they were the same but maybe not as aggressive looking to score a as I hoped they would be like Garza is now. Weezy has been a lot more aggressive this season too which is good.

Maybe I’m misremembering their senior seasons. It is certainly possible I am. Never thought they played poorly. I guess they both seemed the same as they did the previous year. No real new element to their games like we’ve seen with Garza or even Weezy this year.
 
Yep, clear regression. I stopped responding after that retort.
You act like I called them bad... all I was saying is that it felt like they didn’t take another significant step up with their games from the previous year. I think for Uthoff he just didn’t play selfish enough at times.

The whole point of a message board is to have a discussion and I’m open to my mind being changed. I could be wrong. Sorry you feel differently.
 
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Connor has an excellent basketball acumen and he is a steady leader on the floor. Maybe you missed the three ring circus that came to town after he left the game. I agree, maybe a few less minutes per game, but to sum up that he is valueless is a pretty strong statement.

I agree that Connor has a good basketball IQ, but his presence would not have had any impact on the game IMO. Iowa completely broke down on both ends and Connor isn't going to put up 20 in the second half or break his guy down to penetrate and dish.

I am not implying he doesn't contribute. It is to highlight that he brings little / nothing offensively other than as a post feeder. Iowa's problem isn't getting the ball to Garza. It's scoring outside of Garza and getting shots through the offense. When nobody can get separation you are going to have problems.
 
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Joe needs to slow down. Don’t need to go 100mph the whole time he’s on the floor. Trying to stop on a dime playing that fast is a recipe for dumb decisions and turnovers.
 
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I’m pretty sure Iowa was getting worked before Connor got injured....it was only a 6-7 point deficit but it may as well have been 409
Don't think so. The Hawks were still very much in it at that time. You could tell they became disjointed after CM went down. Good thing he's going to be OK for tOSU.
 
I agree that Connor has a good basketball IQ, but his presence would not have had any impact on the game IMO. Iowa completely broke down on both ends and Connor isn't going to put up 20 in the second half or break his guy down to penetrate and dish.

I am not implying he doesn't contribute. It is to highlight that he brings little / nothing offensively other than as a post feeder. Iowa's problem isn't getting the ball to Garza. It's scoring outside of Garza and getting shots through the offense. When nobody can get separation you are going to have problems.
It is a common trend on this board to question CMAC‘s minutes after every loss. Included in these posts are the usual comments about his limitations on offense.

He is not on the floor for his offense. Iowa is one of the top offenses in the country and CMAC contributes to the scoring by not committing pointless fouls, not turning the ball over, and playing within his game. His presence and leadership on the court is critical to the team’s success. After Iowa sacked Sparty and Wisconsin on their home courts, I did not see anyone bringing up CMAC’s 22 minutes per game. It is only after a loss.

I agree with you that Iowa loses last night, regardless of whether CMAC finishes the game. However I don’t think the second half turns completely sideways if he does not get injured.

I chalk up the loss to Nunge’s injury extended the minutes of an already worn down Luka Garza. Garza’s fatigue coupled with CMAC leaving the game, was too much to overcome against, IMO, the best team in the land.
 
I’m not saying every player has regressed. I just think of a few like Uthoff and Jok that came to mind where I think everyone expected big things their last year and I remember feeling like they took a step the wrong direction and I would be curious to look at how each player developed over the years under this coaching staff. I’m not even saying there is a problem. I just think it would be an interesting discussion.

I also didn’t say the coaching staff had nothing to do with Garza, I just think we all know Garza put in a lot of work on his own and with his dad to improve his game. I don’t think the coaches deserve all the credit for Garza.

I’m not in the practices so I don’t get the luxury of seeing how they performed as freshmen in practice or anything. Just something I’m curious about.
Do you seriously not believe that every single player is putting in work to become better on their own. I swear to god, some of you guys are just enormous idiots.
 
Check CMAC at the 4 vs Keegan.

JoeT should be playing guard minutes out of JBO time, but I agree JoeT has had too many turnovers. Having a short leash doesn't help. It is not like PMAC hasn't been a bricklayer at times...his line yesterday was 0-4 and one turnover....you don't see quick PMAC hooks.

With Nunge likely out, JBO two rebuilt hips, Garza running on fumes, Fredrick not healthy...not surprising they lost to Michigan. This is solid Iowa team, just not elite.
Buddy you're bitching about Connor's ineptness on offense, while pushing for Joe. That's my point, how do you not get this? Keegan has been taking Connor's minutes, that's good, because he is a really good player. Joe T is not. I love the kid, hope he improves, but he isn't good right now. We need to win these games, not massage Joe's feelings.
 
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It is a common trend on this board to question CMAC‘s minutes after every loss. Included in these posts are the usual comments about his limitations on offense.

He is not on the floor for his offense. Iowa is one of the top offenses in the country and CMAC contributes to the scoring by not committing pointless fouls, not turning the ball over, and playing within his game. His presence and leadership on the court is critical to the team’s success. After Iowa sacked Sparty and Wisconsin on their home courts, I did not see anyone bringing up CMAC’s 22 minutes per game. It is only after a loss.

I agree with you that Iowa loses last night, regardless of whether CMAC finishes the game. However I don’t think the second half turns completely sideways if he does not get injured.

I chalk up the loss to Nunge’s injury extended the minutes of an already worn down Luka Garza. Garza’s fatigue coupled with CMAC leaving the game, was too much to overcome against, IMO, the best team in the land.


Good points. I am not singling Connor out because of the loss. I respect that he plays hard every second he is on the floor and is definitely a glue guy. The issue isn't Connor the player or person, it's that you need a 2 guard to be more dynamic. He isn't that guy. If Jbo was more dynamic, it would be less of an issue. That leaves CJ as the only guy on the court in the starting group who can drive and create his own shot. Joe W. can occasionally drive, but he doesn't have CJ's pull up game, or hasn't shown it to date. Murray does a nice as well, but he doesn't start.

I understand Fran's offense is Garza and 3-point shooting and maybe I just need to live with this. It seems like there should be something in the middle when teams commit to smothering Garza and can get up on the shooters. The counter measure is dribble penetration but we don't have that guy at the 1 or 2.
 
Good points. I am not singling Connor out because of the loss. I respect that he plays hard every second he is on the floor and is definitely a glue guy. The issue isn't Connor the player or person, it's that you need a 2 guard to be more dynamic. He isn't that guy. If Jbo was more dynamic, it would be less of an issue. That leaves CJ as the only guy on the court in the starting group who can drive and create his own shot. Joe W. can occasionally drive, but he doesn't have CJ's pull up game, or hasn't shown it to date. Murray does a nice as well, but he he doesn't start.

I understand Fran's offense is Garza and 3-point shooting and maybe I just need to live with this. It seems like there should be something in the middle when teams commit to smothering Garza and can get up on the shooters. The counter measure is dribble penetration but we don't have that guy at the 1 or 2.
When Joe T started last year he showed a lot of future success, but he has no definitely regressed. Don’t know why, but at this point, his minutes probably should be limited. Hate to say that, because I was very bullish on Joe
 
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In my humble opinion, Joe T. has not gotten adjusted to the fact he cannot simply blow past everyone like he did in high school and AAU ball. There he took it to the basket and his options were to score first, second, and pass third. You cannot do that in the Big Ten. His best game was I believe against MSU when he moved the ball quickly from the perimeter. He did not force anything and the offense flowed. His passes to the wing helped create angles to pass the ball to the post - hence the phrase hockey assist. He may very well get there, but his offensive mind set has to change. He is too easily sped up and that's when the turnovers happen.
 
Good points. I am not singling Connor out because of the loss. I respect that he plays hard every second he is on the floor and is definitely a glue guy. The issue isn't Connor the player or person, it's that you need a 2 guard to be more dynamic. He isn't that guy. If Jbo was more dynamic, it would be less of an issue. That leaves CJ as the only guy on the court in the starting group who can drive and create his own shot. Joe W. can occasionally drive, but he doesn't have CJ's pull up game, or hasn't shown it to date. Murray does a nice as well, but he doesn't start.

I understand Fran's offense is Garza and 3-point shooting and maybe I just need to live with this. It seems like there should be something in the middle when teams commit to smothering Garza and can get up on the shooters. The counter measure is dribble penetration but we don't have that guy at the 1 or 2.
Agreed. It would be nice to have a 2 who can create his own shot off the dribble. I think that is why many on this board are in love with Joe T. I like Joe T’s enthusiasm, but just wish he would play within the tempo of the offense. He always seems to want to be a step ahead.

All and all I am just a frustrated Hawkeye fan. Seemed like all the oars were back in the water with Fredrick’s return, and then we lose Nunge.
 
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When Joe T started last year he showed a lot of future success, but he has no definitely regressed. Don’t know why, but at this point, his minutes probably should be limited. Hate to say that, because I was very bullish on Joe

Agree. Water under the bridge, but I wonder where Ulis would be today if he got some of those minutes. Even Perkins has shown the ability to drive it. Both are a bit unsure of themselves when they get into the paint, but that will round itself out with more PT.

I love Joe T.'s intensity and have advocated for him in this forum, but he just can't stop the unforced turnovers.
 
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Do you seriously not believe that every single player is putting in work to become better on their own. I swear to god, some of you guys are just enormous idiots.
It seems pointless to have a discussion with you when you seemingly get riled up if not everyone shares your same viewpoint on something, but you are actually saying that every player has put in the same work to improve their game as Garza?

Idk why your first reaction is to name call instead of just respectfully stating you disagree. We are all Iowa fans here and based on your overreaction I doubt you even read or correctly understood the context of my post. Relax a little.
 
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Joe is more athlete, less basketball player. Especially point guard. I just dont think his overall game is a great fit. He is a backup point guard, defensive specialist. I believe, and have said 100 times, that Ulis is a much better fit for our offense and is a better pure point guard.
JT would have been a hell of a running back IMO
 
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well he was on a different floor last year above that ceiling as he started some games and averaged 18 minutes a game and seemed to play alright. I think having him in a limited role is the worst thing for him as he tries to hard in the short minutes he gets. I feel like he does better knowing he will get more minutes and adjusts to how the game flow is going. It would be foolish for both him and the team to have him stick around in a limited role.

His advanced stats are pretty much the same this year as they were last year.
 
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His advanced stats are pretty much the same this year as they were last year.
And they had a pretty good season last yr with him starting. If he sticks around (imo he does) him and ulis will be a pretty good combo in the backcourt. Joe and bakari were a good duo last year, i see joe and ulis being similar.
 
I believe Joe started 20 games at PG last season

And we were an NCAA Tournament team. With him as our starting PG.

I am shocked at how he looks now.

He looks the same but less aggressive because he has no leash.

He always turned it over too much but he also made allot of things happen that our other guards can't.
 
I’m not saying every player has regressed. I just think of a few like Uthoff and Jok that came to mind where I think everyone expected big things their last year and I remember feeling like they took a step the wrong direction and I would be curious to look at how each player developed over the years under this coaching staff. I’m not even saying there is a problem. I just think it would be an interesting discussion.

I also didn’t say the coaching staff had nothing to do with Garza, I just think we all know Garza put in a lot of work on his own and with his dad to improve his game. I don’t think the coaches deserve all the credit for Garza.

I’m not in the practices so I don’t get the luxury of seeing how they performed as freshmen in practice or anything. Just something I’m curious about.
Good Lord! HELLO! Could you possibly have picked two worse examples for your rant? Both Jok and Uthoff were 1st team all conference in the BIG as seniors, both up for AA honors and Uthoff was in discussion for a good part of his senior year as NPOY! Your right though they didn't live up to expectations?????
Maybe at some point its on the players to put in the work to get better. As others have posted on the current roster most certainly besides Luka, Joe W., CJF, and Nunge have certainly progressed while at Iowa. Joe T. , not so much and thats mostly on him.......
 
2nd Team All American and 1st Team All Big Ten Jarrod Uthoff, and AP Honorable Mention All American and 1st Team All Big Ten Peter Jok?
Exactly. As I said could he actually have picked two worse examples. Hell Uthoff was talked about for awhile as NPOY. Clearly he regressed after transferring from Wisconsin and not playing for TWO years after he graduated high school....... o_O
 
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Here's the issue...before the season started we all knew what Luka Garza brought to the table, the question was does the other returning players improve enough from last season to make this team better then last year....
Evidently that has been answered in spades.

Conner is almost exactly the same player he was last year. His offense is sketchy and his shot is pathetic and his defense is not as good as it was last year. JMI He's good at 1 thing, feeding Garza.

C.J Fredrick is just as good as he was last year, maybe a little better, but his inability to keep from getting injured and his reluctance to take control and defer to others doesn't help.

Bohannan is just as good as he was as a freshmen, but he's a senior now and I expected much more from a point guard/shooting guard then what he's producing this year. His career numbers are though the chart, but his scoring numbers are the lowest in his 4 plus years at Iowa. That needs to change in the next month if Iowa is going to achieve the lofty goals that had before the season started.

Weezy get's better each year. His numbers have improved slightly every year in scoring, rebounding and defensive efficacy. He's even gotten stronger since his freshmen year but his consistency is not where even he thinks it should be. That also needs to improve quickly,

Joe Toussaint, is a whirlwind of energy, unfortunately he has not been able to harness it effectively enough to come off the bench and provide this team with valuable minutes without causing chaos, and he has shown no ability or desire to shoot from outside therefore he's just a quicker/shorter CMAC. Not what Garza needs when he's being beaten to death by a multitude of players not respecting Iowa's outside shooters not named Jordan or C.J.

I'm not going to go into the bench now that Nunge is done for the season but Keegan is a real find and once Patrick slows the game down he'll be a great scorer next year.

What does this all mean. Well Iowa came into this season with high hopes to achieve something that hasn't happened since 1979/80. Garza is everything that Iowa had hoped he'd be and more but because the other returning players haven't improved enough from last year to keep Garza from being bludgeoned to death, well, here we are in 4th place in the BIG, no chance for a Big Ten Title again, and really just hoping things can be turned around to make it to the round of 32 without getting run over be a 14 seed.
Fran has been at Iowa for 11 years now and again Iowa could be looking at the 11th year in a row with double digit losses. Lose Sunday at Ohio St, it's almost a certainty, which is something that should have never happened with arguable Frans best team since he's been at Iowa.
 
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Good Lord! HELLO! Could you possibly have picked two worse examples for your rant? Both Jok and Uthoff were 1st team all conference in the BIG as seniors, both up for AA honors and Uthoff was in discussion for a good part of his senior year as NPOY! Your right though they didn't live up to expectations?????
Maybe at some point its on the players to put in the work to get better. As others have posted on the current roster most certainly besides Luka, Joe W., CJF, and Nunge have certainly progressed while at Iowa. Joe T. , not so much and thats mostly on him.......
Yep my bad. In case you missed it, I already said I misremembered earlier today and was glad.

To clarify, I just thought the discussion of how players have improved under the coaching staff was interesting. How do they compare to other players on other teams, etc. We all know the football program develops talent so I was curious how that was for basketball. Obviously there is probably no way to get a clear answer or any stats on it, but yes I clearly picked some bad examples. Both players had a lot of talent when they got here.
 
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Here's the issue...before the season started we all knew what Luka Garza brought to the table, the question was does the other returning players improve enough from last season to make this team better then last year....
Evidently that has been answered in spades.

Conner is almost exactly the same player he was last year. His offense is sketchy and his shot is pathetic and his defense is not as good as it was last year. JMI He's good at 1 thing, feeding Garza.

C.J Fredrick is just as good as he was last year, maybe a little better, but his inability to keep from getting injured and his reluctance to take control and defer to others doesn't help.

Bohannan is just as good as he was as a freshmen, but he's a senior now and I expected much more from a point guard/shooting guard then what he's producing this year. His career numbers are though the chart, but his scoring numbers are the lowest in his 4 plus years at Iowa. That needs to change in the next month if Iowa is going to achieve the lofty goals that had before the season started.

Weezy get's better each year. His numbers have improved slightly every year in scoring, rebounding and defensive efficacy. He's even gotten stronger since his freshmen year but his consistency is not where even he thinks it should be. That also needs to improve quickly,

Joe Toussaint, is a whirlwind of energy, unfortunately he has not been able to harness it effectively enough to come off the bench and provide this team with valuable minutes without causing chaos, and he has shown no ability or desire to shoot from outside therefore he's just a quicker/shorter CMAC. Not what Garza needs when he's being beaten to death by a multitude of players not respecting Iowa's outside shooters not named Jordan or C.J.

I'm not going to go into the bench now that Nunge is done for the season but Keegan is a real find and once Patrick slows the game down he'll be a great scorer next year.

What does this all mean. Well Iowa came into this season with high hopes to achieve something that hasn't happened since 1979/80. Garza is everything that Iowa had hoped he'd be and more but because the other returning players haven't improved enough from last year to keep Garza from being bludgeoned to death, well, here we are in 4th place in the BIG, no chance for a Big Ten Title again, and really just hoping things can be turned around to make it to the round of 32 without getting run over be a 14 seed.
Fran has been at Iowa for 11 years now and again Iowa could be looking at the 11th year in a row with double digit losses. Lose Sunday at Ohio St, it's almost a certainty, which is something that should have never happened with arguable Frans best team since he's been at Iowa.
I highly doubt Patrick will be a great scorer next year. His shot is too inconsistent and his decision making is questionable.
 
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He looks the same but less aggressive because he has no leash.

He always turned it over too much but he also made allot of things happen that our other guards can't.

The short leash, and what a difference it makes to play with the starters vs. always having to play with Pat/Nunge and have the whole defense sagging in the lane. Have him out there with Garza/Weiskamp/Fredrick and see what a difference it makes. You need to surround him with shooters.
 
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Yep my bad. In case you missed it, I already said I misremembered earlier today and was glad.

To clarify, I just thought the discussion of how players have improved under the coaching staff was interesting. How do they compare to other players on other teams, etc. We all know the football program develops talent so I was curious how that was for basketball. Obviously there is probably no way to get a clear answer or any stats on it, but yes I clearly picked some bad examples. Both players had a lot of talent when they got here.
Yes both players had a great deal of potential talent, but both were wildly inconsistent as young players. Jok was hit and miss early and was not in top physical condition when he arrived. By his own admission he had to learn how to train properly, and how to eat right, and he was still not 100% recovered from his bad leg injury when he was in high school. JU was very passive after two years redshirting and he deferred to the other starters often. He stepped up some as a redshirt junior, and then was much more the go to guy his senior year. It took both players a couple of years to step up, but both made huge strides the last two years.
 
It seems pointless to have a discussion with you when you seemingly get riled up if not everyone shares your same viewpoint on something, but you are actually saying that every player has put in the same work to improve their game as Garza?

Idk why your first reaction is to name call instead of just respectfully stating you disagree. We are all Iowa fans here and based on your overreaction I doubt you even read or correctly understood the context of my post. Relax a little.
Not my first reaction. You have sat on here and found a way to find every way imaginable to blame Fran, including the asinine remark that Fran isn't to get credit for the development of Garza. At some point, stop and enjoy the fact that we are a top 10 team, with many good young developing players. Fran's development of many of our players has been very very solid.
 
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