Ketchup on the wall!

Mike Zierath

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I'm certainly no Philadelphia lawyer and it very well might be allowed into court but i also think you would agree that IF Trump does ever go to court he is going to show up with a group of lawyers that are the best money can buy and that stuff will get lambasted. That's the kind of stuff I was talking about yesterday. If you arengoing to go after a slimy person you have to have every angle of escape covered.
I agree that they will do everything they can to prevent Donald Trump from going to jail, yes……

🙂
 

Hawkman98

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FUNFACT: They DO allow hearsay in actual trials

Should probably have a lawyer explain the Rules of Evidence to you on this.
Fun fact: In the hundreds of trials I've been involved in I have never ONCE seen it allowed.
 

Mike Zierath

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Fun fact: In the hundreds of trials I've been involved in I have never ONCE seen it allowed.
fun Fact 3.0:

Hearsay evidence is not admissible in court unless a statue or rule provides otherwise. Therefore, even if a statement is really hearsay, it may still be admissible if an exception applies. The Federal Rules of Evidence (FRE) contains nearly thirty of these exceptions to providing hearsay evidence

this is a hearing, not a trial, rules are different. But, as you can see from the Federal Rules of Evidence note above, there are at least 30 exceptions where hearsay would be allowed. It does not happen often, but it does at times.
 

Joes Place

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fun Fact 3.0:

Hearsay evidence is not admissible in court unless a statue or rule provides otherwise. Therefore, even if a statement is really hearsay, it may still be admissible if an exception applies. The Federal Rules of Evidence (FRE) contains nearly thirty of these exceptions to providing hearsay evidence

this is a hearing, not a trial, rules are different. But, as you can see from the Federal Rules of Evidence note above, there are at least 30 exceptions where hearsay would be allowed. It does not happen often, but it does at times.
Was hoping he'd look that up for himself.
 

CarolinaHawkeye

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I'm certainly no Philadelphia lawyer and it very well might be allowed into court but i also think you would agree that IF Trump does ever go to court he is going to show up with a group of lawyers that are the best money can buy and that stuff will get lambasted. That's the kind of stuff I was talking about yesterday. If you arengoing to go after a slimy person you have to have every angle of escape covered.
I don't think the best lawyers will work for trump in this day in age.
 

Fijimn

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Fun fact: In the hundreds of trials I've been involved in I have never ONCE seen it allowed.
You mean you have never had a trial where the accused's statement or confession to you was not allowed? Because that's technically hearsay, there is just an exception to allow it.
 
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Joes Place

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You mean you have never had a trial where the accused's statement or confession to you was not allowed? Because that's technically hearsay, there is just an exception to allow it.

Most of what she testified to was NOT "hearsay". It was things she heard and observed firsthand.

I'm simply amazed he does not understand this, and instead is following the lead of his Propaganda Masters.

#EducationFailures
 
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Fijimn

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Most of what she testified to was NOT "hearsay". It was things she heard and observed firsthand.

I'm simply amazed he does not understand this, and instead is following the lead of his Propaganda Masters.

#EducationFailures
I agree with respect to the throwing the plate against the wall. The testimony about the President reaching for the wheel would likely be excluded as hearsay.
 

FSUTribe76

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Or is it Catsup, in the White House?

how silly is it that we learned today that a sitting U.S. President was apparently so upset that he would throw his lunch, served on a porcelain plate, against the wall!

ketchup on a porcelain plate! You suppose he was ruining a steak, or, just soaking some fries?

we also learned that he tried to take over “the beast” and attempt to assault a Secret Service agent so he could go to the Capital, even after being told numerous times it was a bad idea and would potentially open a legal can of whoop ass never before seen in regard to a sitting President.

I’m so proud of the United States image right now that I can barely contain myself.

A President out of control. We are a laughing stock!

As far as ketchup versus catsup….it Doesn’t matter they’re both misspellings. The original Chinese word is koechiap. In the 1600s the English term was usually spelled catchup and then it evolved into catsup (1680s) and ketchup (1711).

The term was originally a catchall for all kinds of vinegared and/or fermented sauces with a cookbook in 1817 listing one recipe for “ketchup” and 72 recipes for “catsup” Including variations with walnut, oyster, anchovy, herring, squid, cockle, mussle, cucumber AND tomato as the individual stars. According to Jonathan Townsend (a Youtube Channel on colonial cooking as well as manufacturing that I enjoy), mushroom ketchup was one of the most prevalent sauces during colonial era America and was used in place of where modern cooks would use Worcestershire sauce, soy sauce and/or an Asian fish sauce. Chambers's Encyclopaedia (1870) listed mushroom, walnut, and tomato ketchup as "the three most esteemed kinds” of ketchup. It wasn’t until Heinz created its magnificent version (and I only purposefully buy Heinz or Spicy Whataburger ketchup) that the tomato version became the ONLY kind used in America.
 
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lucas80

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So far today I have seen tweets from former Trump Administration officials Olivia Troye and Alyssa Farrah, and WaPo reporter Carol Leonnig who has written books on the Secret Service, all saying that Tony Ornato has said things to them that were not true.
So, let's get Mr. Ornato under oath and in front of the committee during a live hearing.
Some of the people pushing the hearsay narrative, and the narrative that she is lying need to buckle up. Ornato is not credible.
 
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Finance85

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So far today I have seen tweets from former Trump Administration officials Olivia Troye and Alyssa Farrah, and WaPo reporter Carol Leonnig who has written books on the Secret Service, all saying that Tony Ornato has said things to them that were not true.
So, let's get Mr. Ornato under oath and in front of the committee during a live hearing.
Some of the people pushing the hearsay narrative, and the narrative that she is lying need to buckle up. Ornato is not credible.
So was Ornato lying when he told Hutchinson about the limo incident, or is he lying now saying he didn't tell Hutchinson about a limo incident?

In this case, we will have to rely on people who were actually in the limo (Bobby Engel), Trump excluded of course.
 

gohawks50

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So was Ornato lying when he told Hutchinson about the limo incident, or is he lying now saying he didn't tell Hutchinson about a limo incident?

In this case, we will have to rely on people who were actually in the limo (Bobby Engel), Trump excluded of course.
Listen to Liz especially starting around 2:17.

 

Finance85

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Listen to Liz especially starting around 2:17.

Engel has said he wasn't asked about the limo incident in his prior testimony, which Liz alludes to in that video. Like I said, I'll wait until Engel testifies. Also like I said, Hutchinson appeared credible when I watched her testimony. The problem is, neither Ornato or Hutchinson were in the limo.

As far as what happened at the White House, I have no problem believing Trump flung a steak coated with ketchup against the wall. I'm sure the steak was cooked well done.
 

gohawks50

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Engel has said he wasn't asked about the limo incident in his prior testimony, which Liz alludes to in that video. Like I said, I'll wait until Engel testifies. Also like I said, Hutchinson appeared credible when I watched her testimony. The problem is, neither Ornato or Hutchinson were in the limo.

As far as what happened at the White House, I have no problem believing Trump flung a steak coated with ketchup against the wall. I'm sure the steak was cooked well done.
I posted the interview because some HROT posters seem to think the committee doesn't want to hear from anyone in the car. Liz makes it clear they are welcome to testify under oath.

On another note, I am really surprised that with all the other security features on board the President's vehicles that there is not an interior security camera.
 

Finance85

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I posted the interview because some HROT posters seem to think the committee doesn't want to hear from anyone in the car. Liz makes it clear they are welcome to testify under oath.

On another note, I am really surprised that with all the other security features on board the President's vehicles that there is not an interior security camera.
There probably is a security camera. If so, I imagine there's some rule about it not being released until some stupid time in the future. I guess the Secret Service knows.
 

torbee

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As far as ketchup versus catsup….it Doesn’t matter they’re both misspellings. The original Chinese word is koechiap. In the 1600s the English term was usually spelled catchu and then it evolved into catsup (1680s) and ketchup (1711).

The term was originally a catchall for all kinds of vinegared and/or fermented sauces with a cookbook in 1817 listing one recipe for “ketchup” and 72 recipes for “catsup” Including variations with walnut, oyster, anchovy, herring, squid, cockle, mussle, cucumber AND tomato as the individual stars. According to Jonathan Townsend (a Youtube Channel on colonial cooking as well as manufacturing that I enjoy), mushroom ketchup was one of the most prevalent sauces during colonial era America and was used in place of where modern cooks would use Worcestershire sauce, soy sauce and/or an Asian fish sauce. Chambers's Encyclopaedia (1870) listed mushroom, walnut, and tomato ketchup as "the three most esteemed kinds” of ketchup. It wasn’t until Heinz created its magnificent version (and I only purposefully buy Heinz or Spicy Whataburger ketchup) that the tomato version became the ONLY kind used in America.
I am moderately intrigued by the notion of mushroom ketchup. Probably pretty good on a burger. Or a well-done steak if you are a treasonous ex-POTUS.
 

gohawks50

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There probably is a security camera. If so, I imagine there's some rule about it not being released until some stupid time in the future. I guess the Secret Service knows.
This enhanced clip offers no proof to what was actually happening, but you can see some movement of an arm toward the front of the vehicle.

 
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lucas80

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Who cares about the limo, that was some of the least damming testimony she gave.
Well, you know why. The rest of the testimony is damning. Trump tried to get armed people past the security perimeter. Trump wanted to go to the Capitol. Multiple people knew about these things. Rudy and Meadows knew violence was a distinct possibility, and Rudy seemed to. e ecstatic that it was a possibility.
So, better to fixate on the ride.
 

lucas80

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So was Ornato lying when he told Hutchinson about the limo incident, or is he lying now saying he didn't tell Hutchinson about a limo incident?

In this case, we will have to rely on people who were actually in the limo (Bobby Engel), Trump excluded of course.
What all three women are saying is that they had conversations with Ornato that he later denied having.
Ima gonna go with Ornato is lying, especially if you research how non-standard his role in the Trump WH was. He was acting as an arm of the campaign team. It was widely reported in 2020 that he was exceeding the role of any previous Secret Service operator.
 
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Joes Place

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I think one thing the Trumpers don't understand here, is that if Al Gore had engaged in this behavior, and used DOJ to overturn FL's election - sending an alternative slate of Electors based on fake fraud accusations, he'd have ended up President in 2000.

It would have been FAR easier to push over a single state vs. the uphill battle the Trumpers had here. Gore didn't do it. Gore wouldn't do it.

Ergo: everyone involved in this conspiracy needs some serious jail time. Period. INCLUSIVE of those who continue to spread election fraud lies from their media platforms. They were absolutely instrumental in getting people to storm the Capitol. Whether they understood that, or not, is irrelevant per conspiracy laws.
 
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FSUTribe76

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I am moderately intrigued by the notion of mushroom ketchup. Probably pretty good on a burger. Or a well-done steak if you are a treasonous ex-POTUS.

I haven’t tried it myself yet, but it’s supposed to be very similar to Asian fish sauce or worcestershire just a little milder and less assertive. But still packed with lots of umami. If you’re a vegan it would be great to add some meatiness to whatever you add it to.


You could also try making it yourself here

 
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Hawkman98

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Most of what she testified to was NOT "hearsay". It was things she heard and observed firsthand.

I'm simply amazed he does not understand this, and instead is following the lead of his Propaganda Masters.

#EducationFailures
I'm glad you admit that she did testify to hearsay at some point. I never said ALL of her testimony was hearsay and never said it wasn't allowed in the hearings. I said it shouldn't be so things like this don't happen. You can assume all you want, about my political beliefs, but unlike you I have no agenda and don't worship one party.
 

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