Kueter's practice competition ?

[MSU158]

Staff has a lot of work coming up, that’s for sure.

With Jesuroga hanging it up, you now have a whole at 25 or 33 depending on which weight Ayala is. Can Block hold 41 his whole career? No one there if he can’t. No one currently at 84 or 97 and potentially HWT with Kueter and football. The Jesuroga situation you can recover from, but the Kueter one is tricky for the staff. Harder to recruit top level talent when you already have someone at the weight.

That’s three weights that for sure need considerable improvement, and potentially four or five depending on Kueter and Block.

Not true. First off, it is "hole" not "whole". Second, Ayala will be at 125 and Teske will be at 133. Teske still has another year after this year.

Also, not true at 141. Woods has another year as well....

After that, you have Assad still at 184, with Arnold coming in as well(174/184). 197 is a bit of a question mark, but Glazier isn't exactly a bum.

So, yeah, losing a wrestler at Jesuroga's level sucks, but 125 and 133 will still be strong weights for Iowa. Kueter is really the one spot that could really hurt. He is a 4x AA, multiple finalist type recruit. Filling that void, if he doesn't commit 4-5 years to the program could be a big hit to the program.

Next year's lineup should still be quite strong, but they will lose Teske, Woods, Brands and Cass at the end of that season. So, 2025 recruiting is going to be paramount along with landing a top transfer or 2 at a need weight:

125: Ayala
133: Teske
141: Woods
149: Rathjen/Chittum
157: Siebrecht/Chittum
165: Kennedy
174: Brands/Swafford/Arnold
184: Assad/Arnold
197: Glazier
285: Cass

 

[HawkGold]

Not true. First off, it is "hole" not "whole". Second, Ayala will be at 125 and Teske will be at 133. Teske still has another year after this year.

Also, not true at 141. Woods has another year as well....

After that, you have Assad still at 184, with Arnold coming in as well(174/184). 197 is a bit of a question mark, but Glazier isn't exactly a bum.

So, yeah, losing a wrestler at Jesuroga's level sucks, but 125 and 133 will still be strong weights for Iowa. Kueter is really the one spot that could really hurt. He is a 4x AA, multiple finalist type recruit. Filling that void, if he doesn't commit 4-5 years to the program could be a big hit to the program.

Next year's lineup should still be quite strong, but they will lose Teske, Woods, Brands and Cass at the end of that season. So, 2025 recruiting is going to be paramount along with landing a top transfer or 2 at a need weight:

125: Ayala
133: Teske
141: Woods
149: Rathjen/Chittum
157: Siebrecht/Chittum
165: Kennedy
174: Brands/Swafford/Arnold
184: Assad/Arnold
197: Glazier
285: Cass

I knew you were already an expert at everything wrestling, but I'll add grammar to the list. My apologies, I'll make sure auto correct is better next time.

I didn't specify next year's lineup that needs work, did I? Next year's lineup is pretty set in stone unless transfers come in, at least in my opinion. I was speaking more towards two years and forward because there are questions for all the weights I listed on who will man the spot. I'll stand by my statement that there's work to be done.

 

[js8793]

Not true. First off, it is "hole" not "whole". Second, Ayala will be at 125 and Teske will be at 133. Teske still has another year after this year.

Also, not true at 141. Woods has another year as well....

After that, you have Assad still at 184, with Arnold coming in as well(174/184). 197 is a bit of a question mark, but Glazier isn't exactly a bum.

So, yeah, losing a wrestler at Jesuroga's level sucks, but 125 and 133 will still be strong weights for Iowa. Kueter is really the one spot that could really hurt. He is a 4x AA, multiple finalist type recruit. Filling that void, if he doesn't commit 4-5 years to the program could be a big hit to the program.

Next year's lineup should still be quite strong, but they will lose Teske, Woods, Brands and Cass at the end of that season. So, 2025 recruiting is going to be paramount along with landing a top transfer or 2 at a need weight:

125: Ayala
133: Teske
141: Woods
149: Rathjen/Chittum
157: Siebrecht/Chittum
165: Kennedy
174: Brands/Swafford/Arnold
184: Assad/Arnold
197: Glazier
285: Cass

I think he's talking about more than next year, in which case he's 100 % right. No long term answer at 125/133 opposite ayala (plus, is teske really an answer in the first place?). No long term answers at 184/197. Glazier is not good. Plus, Franklin, who also isn't good, already beat him. Technically they have an answer at 285, but is obviously iffy and will make it difficult to recruit depth.

There is little reason to believe this team challenges for a title any time soon and significant reason to believe they could fall out of trophy contention too. They can't afford to miss on anybody. Recruiting efforts need to improve quickly.

 

[bnicolls]

I don't know why anyone is surprised. There's no way Kueter does both, especially not after year 1 of starting for the football.

He wouldn't wrestle next year as a starter (Cass) and if he's the recruit he is, he's getting significant minutes as a true freshman. Iowa yearly plays in a end of year/new years day bowl. He's going to jump right into Big Ten season and win? Come on man.

So yeah. These ruminations from bnicolls and clan that we'll be on equal footing with PSU in the next few years is crazy talk. We lost Jesuroga and we need finalists.

I agree with you that we need finalists. This is not some revelation that the staff needs to see.

I believe with the guys we have plus 1 Woods like transfer (based on our history of attracting talent), that we are right with PSU. Ayala, Woods, Chit, PK, Arnold, Cass, plus the 1 finalist type guy. And, if we can get two, we're the favorite. Tell me why this is crazy talk?

Thereafter, we keep attracting the same level of talent to Iowa City as PSU does as they have zero advantage over us.

 

[vhsalum]

I agree with you that we need finalists. This is not some revelation that the staff needs to see.

I believe with the guys we have plus 1 Woods like transfer (based on our history of attracting talent), that we are right with PSU. Ayala, Woods, Chit, PK, Arnold, Cass, plus the 1 finalist type guy. And, if we can get two, we're the favorite. Tell me why this is crazy talk?

Thereafter, we keep attracting the same level of talent to Iowa City as PSU does as they have zero advantage over us.

I really mean in the recruiting wars. Those are two huge hits.

Next year? You're right, with PSU losing RBY and Dean, we really need 2 big transfers, and 1 needs to be a finalist. I wouldn't put much into a true freshman Gabe Arnold being ready to AA. That's a huge jump. Hope I'm wrong af though.

 

[MSU158]

I knew you were already an expert at everything wrestling, but I'll add grammar to the list. My apologies, I'll make sure auto correct is better next time.

I didn't specify next year's lineup that needs work, did I? Next year's lineup is pretty set in stone unless transfers come in, at least in my opinion. I was speaking more towards two years and forward because there are questions for all the weights I listed on who will man the spot. I'll stand by my statement that there's work to be done.

I think he's talking about more than next year, in which case he's 100 % right. No long term answer at 125/133 opposite ayala (plus, is teske really an answer in the first place?). No long term answers at 184/197. Glazier is not good. Plus, Franklin, who also isn't good, already beat him. Technically they have an answer at 285, but is obviously iffy and will make it difficult to recruit depth.

There is little reason to believe this team challenges for a title any time soon and significant reason to believe they could fall out of trophy contention too. They can't afford to miss on anybody. Recruiting efforts need to improve quickly.

Seriously guys? You don’t recruit two years in advance across the board, especially elite recruits. If you do, you lose a year of eligibility for how many kids? As such, you DO NOT call out holes 2 years away. That is flat out nonsense. Much like you don’t recruit all 10 weights in one year and pair them together for a full 4 year cycle.

Simply put, Iowa is set at 125(Ayala) for 3 more seasons after this year. 133 should be a focus AFTER next season. 141 looks to be set for at least 5 more years with a combination of Woods and Block. 149 has 3 with Reyna. 157 has at least 5 with Siebrecht and Chittum. 165 has 3 with Kennedy. 174 has Brands next year and may have 4 more after with Arnold. 184 has 2 more with Assad. 197 has Glazier, but should be a recruiting focus for sure. 285 could be 5 years depending on Keuter.

So, they have PLENTY of time to grab a transfer or recruit 133 and 197 HARD. Depending on Keuter, 285 is MAYBE the only other weight they would need to push hard at.

Of those they have now, Ayala, Chittum, Arnold and Keuter should provide at least 3 more years, AFTER next year of ELITE production. Kennedy gets you 2 more at that level. So, that alone, is half the lineup through at least 2026. On top of that you have Block and Reyna giving you possible fringe AA potential through the same time frame. Assad gives you 1 more at that level through 2025. So, again, they have AMPLE time to focus on 133 and 197, while also creating depth at the other weights.

Compare them to ANYONE other than PSU and you will find they sit LOADED across more weights for a longer period of time. The narrative you 2 are pushing simply isn’t close to accurate…

 

[Sdwrestler_20]

Seriously guys? You don’t recruit two years in advance across the board, especially elite recruits. If you do, you lose a year of eligibility for how many kids? As such, you DO NOT call out holes 2 years away. That is flat out nonsense. Much like you don’t recruit all 10 weights in one year and pair them together for a full 4 year cycle.

Simply put, Iowa is set at 125(Ayala) for 3 more seasons after this year. 133 should be a focus AFTER next season. 141 looks to be set for at least 5 more years with a combination of Woods and Block. 149 has 3 with Reyna. 157 has at least 5 with Siebrecht and Chittum. 165 has 3 with Kennedy. 174 has Brands next year and may have 4 more after with Arnold. 184 has 2 more with Assad. 197 has Glazier, but should be a recruiting focus for sure. 285 could be 5 years depending on Keuter.

So, they have PLENTY of time to grab a transfer or recruit 133 and 197 HARD. Depending on Keuter, 285 is MAYBE the only other weight they would need to push hard at.

Of those they have now, Ayala, Chittum, Arnold and Keuter should provide at least 3 more years, AFTER next year of ELITE production. Kennedy gets you 2 more at that level. So, that alone, is half the lineup through at least 2026. On top of that you have Block and Reyna giving you possible fringe AA potential through the same time frame. Assad gives you 1 more at that level through 2025. So, again, they have AMPLE time to focus on 133 and 197, while also creating depth at the other weights.

Compare them to ANYONE other than PSU and you will find they sit LOADED across more weights for a longer period of time. The narrative you 2 are pushing simply isn’t close to accurate…

I don't think Reyna is in the plans. Maybe you meant Rathjen?

 

[MSU158]

I don't think Reyna is in the plans. Maybe you meant Rathjen?

Ugh, yes. The heel of my palm has properly rapped my forehead for that misusage. In my defense, I did at least get the name right in my 1st response! Rathjen has looked very solid and I would expect him to fit in nicely after Max.

 

[bnicolls]

I really mean in the recruiting wars. Those are two huge hits.

Next year? You're right, with PSU losing RBY and Dean, we really need 2 big transfers, and 1 needs to be a finalist. I wouldn't put much into a true freshman Gabe Arnold being ready to AA. That's a huge jump. Hope I'm wrong af though.

We are on the same page, maybe not paragraph

I do believe from here on out, we compete and win an equal amount of Elite's as PSU

 

[jmadden1998]

We are on the same page, maybe not paragraph

I do believe from here on out, we compete and win an equal amount of Elite's as PSU

 

[MVPFAN]

I really mean in the recruiting wars. Those are two huge hits.

Next year? You're right, with PSU losing RBY and Dean, we really need 2 big transfers, and 1 needs to be a finalist. I wouldn't put much into a true freshman Gabe Arnold being ready to AA. That's a huge jump. Hope I'm wrong af though.

Agree, next year we are not sitting in too bad of shape yet but take away Cass, Woods, Assad and Teske without clear replacements and it is troubling. Hoping to pull transfers out of the air to fill spots neglected by poor recruiting is not the ideal way to operate.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

Is it wrong to hope that he’s a bust at football?

 

[MVPFAN]

Seriously guys? You don’t recruit two years in advance across the board, especially elite recruits. If you do, you lose a year of eligibility for how many kids? As such, you DO NOT call out holes 2 years away. That is flat out nonsense. Much like you don’t recruit all 10 weights in one year and pair them together for a full 4 year cycle.

Simply put, Iowa is set at 125(Ayala) for 3 more seasons after this year. 133 should be a focus AFTER next season. 141 looks to be set for at least 5 more years with a combination of Woods and Block. 149 has 3 with Reyna. 157 has at least 5 with Siebrecht and Chittum. 165 has 3 with Kennedy. 174 has Brands next year and may have 4 more after with Arnold. 184 has 2 more with Assad. 197 has Glazier, but should be a recruiting focus for sure. 285 could be 5 years depending on Keuter.

So, they have PLENTY of time to grab a transfer or recruit 133 and 197 HARD. Depending on Keuter, 285 is MAYBE the only other weight they would need to push hard at.

Of those they have now, Ayala, Chittum, Arnold and Keuter should provide at least 3 more years, AFTER next year of ELITE production. Kennedy gets you 2 more at that level. So, that alone, is half the lineup through at least 2026. On top of that you have Block and Reyna giving you possible fringe AA potential through the same time frame. Assad gives you 1 more at that level through 2025. So, again, they have AMPLE time to focus on 133 and 197, while also creating depth at the other weights.

Compare them to ANYONE other than PSU and you will find they sit LOADED across more weights for a longer period of time. The narrative you 2 are pushing simply isn’t close to accurate…

If Ayala can hold 125 then yes that isn't an urgent need but obviously they were planning on him moving up and inserting Jesuroga at some point. 125 and 133 are supposed to be our thing and we currently sit with 1 high end recruit between the two. We should have someone projected as mid to high AA every year at those weights. I'm not confident Teske is going to yield much. I wasn't especially concerned when he went to PSU, we ended up with a lot more with ADS. Bottom line is he doesn't project as mid to high AA. Getting Woods has saved their bacon in the short term at 141 and covered for a poor recruiting choice in Henson. If Block holds 141 then agree we should be ok there. I like his longer frame and he gets after it. If he doesn't hold 141 we have zippo for other options right now. Rathjen could end up being what we need at 149 with a level jump but was hurt last year and now hurt again defaulting a couple weeks ago. Chittum could hit the ground running at 149 or 157 but we need another top guy opposite him. 165 should be good with PK, he seems to be hitting his stride. I think fully healthy Brands would be our best next year option for 174. Arnold should be good moving forward. 184 should have had someone from this year's Seniors so they can redshirt next year during Assad's last year. Glazier looked promising two years ago but he looks like a qualifier at best and Franklin pretty similar. Kueter is obviously a question at this point. He needs to gain 20 legit pounds to start with. He could then be anything from title contender to never wrestles a match. Non of the 3 freshman 285s are close to being consistent match winners at the D1 level. We should be comparing ourselves to PSU if we want to beat them. Comparing our lineup to the rest of the non contenders will keep us safely in that status.

 

[MSU158]

If Ayala can hold 125 then yes that isn't an urgent need but obviously they were planning on him moving up and inserting Jesuroga at some point. 125 and 133 are supposed to be our thing and we currently sit with 1 high end recruit between the two. We should have someone projected as mid to high AA every year at those weights. I'm not confident Teske is going to yield much. I wasn't especially concerned when he went to PSU, we ended up with a lot more with ADS. Bottom line is he doesn't project as mid to high AA. Getting Woods has saved their bacon in the short term at 141 and covered for a poor recruiting choice in Henson. If Block holds 141 then agree we should be ok there. I like his longer frame and he gets after it. If he doesn't hold 141 we have zippo for other options right now. Rathjen could end up being what we need at 149 with a level jump but was hurt last year and now hurt again defaulting a couple weeks ago. Chittum could hit the ground running at 149 or 157 but we need another top guy opposite him. 165 should be good with PK, he seems to be hitting his stride. I think fully healthy Brands would be our best next year option for 174. Arnold should be good moving forward. 184 should have had someone from this year's Seniors so they can redshirt next year during Assad's last year. Glazier looked promising two years ago but he looks like a qualifier at best and Franklin pretty similar. Kueter is obviously a question at this point. He needs to gain 20 legit pounds to start with. He could then be anything from title contender to never wrestles a match. Non of the 3 freshman 285s are close to being consistent match winners at the D1 level. We should be comparing ourselves to PSU if we want to beat them. Comparing our lineup to the rest of the non contenders will keep us safely in that status.

The problem with your last 2 sentences is you are comparing your team to the most dominant dynasty, especially in recruiting, in basically any college sports dozen year history. Try comparing PSU recruiting to football. They basically recruit EVERY year like Texas A&M just did for their first time, which was also the most 5 star recruits going to one team in DI football history!

I get that you want to compare yourself to the best to be the best, but Iowa is still doing extremely well. It’s just that PSU has set the bar ridiculously high. Even in Gable’s time, Iowa didn’t recruit like PSU had under Carl.

Truly, I only really went after the narrative earlier that acted like Iowa was falling off to the point they wouldn’t be in trophy contention. That was just ridiculous. No other team, except maybe tOSU, IF their young guys continue to develop is in near as good of shape as Iowa is going forward. Yes, Iowa still needs to land a couple major impact guys next year, but that isn’t any different than any other year.

Lastly, I think it is wrong to have the negative attitude towards Iowa because of PSU. Only 2 teams other than PSU have won in the last 15 NCAA Championships. Iowa has 4 of those and tOSU has 1. Even then, Iowa is the ONLY team to finish top 5 every one of those years. I get that Iowa fans have been so spoiled they want titles no matter what, but PSU is a juggernaut that simply isn’t a fair comparison…

 

[Divided42]

Snyder was about 230-240 and won 2 titles at heavyweight, including one over a much bigger and very talented Gwiz. I think Ben is at least as good as Snyder was at this point in his career. I think 240 would easily be big enough for him to win national titles at heavyweight.

That said, I think the football S/C program will have him at least 250 by fall of 2024. I think he’ll end up a Jack Campbell-style MLB and/or a DE, and I think he ends up closer to 260 by the end of his career at Iowa — a perfect weight to dominate the 285 weight class.

Wait what? I mean don’t get me wrong Ben is really good and has an amazing wrestling career ahead of him if he decides to stick with it, but did you just say at this stage he’s at least as good as Kyle Snider was? The same Kyle Snider that won a World title at 19 and may go down as the best US wrestler ever by the time his career is done? Come on man.

 

[bnicolls]

The problem with your last 2 sentences is you are comparing your team to the most dominant dynasty, especially in recruiting, in basically any college sports dozen year history. Try comparing PSU recruiting to football. They basically recruit EVERY year like Texas A&M just did for their first time, which was also the most 5 star recruits going to one team in DI football history!

I get that you want to compare yourself to the best to be the best, but Iowa is still doing extremely well. It’s just that PSU has set the bar ridiculously high. Even in Gable’s time, Iowa didn’t recruit like PSU had under Carl.

Truly, I only really went after the narrative earlier that acted like Iowa was falling off to the point they wouldn’t be in trophy contention. That was just ridiculous. No other team, except maybe tOSU, IF their young guys continue to develop is in near as good of shape as Iowa is going forward. Yes, Iowa still needs to land a couple major impact guys next year, but that isn’t any different than any other year.

Lastly, I think it is wrong to have the negative attitude towards Iowa because of PSU. Only 2 teams other than PSU have won in the last 15 NCAA Championships. Iowa has 4 of those and tOSU has 1. Even then, Iowa is the ONLY team to finish top 5 every one of those years. I get that Iowa fans have been so spoiled they want titles no matter what, but PSU is a juggernaut that simply isn’t a fair comparison…

Let's enjoy the next month.

We out recruited PSU this year including Woods walking in and Chit with Block, Ben, and Arnold. Add Nate to what the world knew at the time and we won, hands down. There is no reason to believe we can't match up every year going forward.

As everyone knows, Tom's a competitive guy and that doesn't end when he walks out of the room.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Wait what? I mean don’t get me wrong Ben is really good and has an amazing wrestling career ahead of him if he decides to stick with it, but did you just say at this stage he’s at least as good as Kyle Snider was? The same Kyle Snider that won a World title at 19 and may go down as the best US wrestler ever by the time his career is done? Come on man.

The guy who went undefeated in 4 years of upper weight competition in 3A Iowa high school and dominated his way to a junior world championship? Of course. What else do you expect him to have done by now? He has basically had as much success as a guy his age can possibly have at this point in his career. Absolutely, I think he’s as good as Snyder was when he was a senior in high school. It’s extremely hard to argue otherwise.

It shouldn’t need to be stated, but if you’re comparing Kueter as a senior in high school with Snyder as a senior in high school, Snyder’s accolades in college and beyond aren’t being considered.

 

[SPOONER]

I don't know why anyone is surprised. There's no way Kueter does both, especially not after year 1 of starting for the football.

There isn’t? When did he tell you this? Are you super close to Ben?

 

[MVPFAN]

The problem with your last 2 sentences is you are comparing your team to the most dominant dynasty, especially in recruiting, in basically any college sports dozen year history. Try comparing PSU recruiting to football. They basically recruit EVERY year like Texas A&M just did for their first time, which was also the most 5 star recruits going to one team in DI football history!

I get that you want to compare yourself to the best to be the best, but Iowa is still doing extremely well. It’s just that PSU has set the bar ridiculously high. Even in Gable’s time, Iowa didn’t recruit like PSU had under Carl.

Truly, I only really went after the narrative earlier that acted like Iowa was falling off to the point they wouldn’t be in trophy contention. That was just ridiculous. No other team, except maybe tOSU, IF their young guys continue to develop is in near as good of shape as Iowa is going forward. Yes, Iowa still needs to land a couple major impact guys next year, but that isn’t any different than any other year.

Lastly, I think it is wrong to have the negative attitude towards Iowa because of PSU. Only 2 teams other than PSU have won in the last 15 NCAA Championships. Iowa has 4 of those and tOSU has 1. Even then, Iowa is the ONLY team to finish top 5 every one of those years. I get that Iowa fans have been so spoiled they want titles no matter what, but PSU is a juggernaut that simply isn’t a fair comparison…

Iowa has the ability to not be second fiddle to them. Part of it is the money which is being addressed but part of it is also being smart. Carl has certainly benefitted from having the financial backing but he used it smartly as well. Besides "enhancing" his 9.9 he kept building his club little by little until it became a run away train. Like Gable he has been big onto the mental aspects of the athlete including using the head shrink guru. His training and peaking cycles seem to have modernized into a new level. Him and his staff are like invisible giants, what you see and hear from them is next to nothing considering the amount of success they have. They have a system and philosophy and they do them well. Their best guys are kept piped to the machine to further enhance it. Taylor starting the top club in the top state right on his back yard. They are running it like a corporation for winning at wrestling, always thinking to innovate. Carl hates losing more than anyone. You could see it back to ISU coaching that losing drives him like no other. That's why he jumped ship to begin with, the easiest path to winning he could get. I loved how the Brands competed and they too hate to lose. They love their guys and stand by them to a fault at times where Carl would have made upgrades in the name of winning. I think they are good motivators and when it comes to coaching they are tirelessly dedicated. But Carl is playing chess to their checkers when it comes to many intangibles that absolutely matter a lot. The physical build and athleticism of guys he often targets has proven to be much better. He targets a certain style as has Brands and one has proven to be more successful. He has owned Iowa and everyone else when it comes to preparing for and making adjustments in specific matchups. Their techniques are more varied. He is hacking into the security system to get out of jail while Brands tries to break through a concrete wall with a hammer. If we have a staff working the intangibles and being smarter in addition to working hard then Iowa absolutely could be right there. Everything matters from recruiting with energy, effort and excitement to training to how you project as a person. While good for a laugh at times the boorish behavior that is too often exhibited doesn't help this program win, just the opposite. PSU has a recruiting presence anywhere they try to have one. Ours seems much more limited. Mainly down to in state again and an occasional guy elsewhere who we usually have a connection to or who grew up as a fan. Most of the guys in the top 20 pfp ranking each year are guys I automatically figure we won't have a shot at unless they happen to be in state or have an existing connection. Yes the Brands have made some adjustments but are still way behind the Joneses.

 

[Inthecircle]

Wait what? I mean don’t get me wrong Ben is really good and has an amazing wrestling career ahead of him if he decides to stick with it, but did you just say at this stage he’s at least as good as Kyle Snider was? The same Kyle Snider that won a World title at 19 and may go down as the best US wrestler ever by the time his career is done? Come on man.

Come on man, Kyle Snyder may go down as the best U.S.A. wrestler of all time, you’re kidding yourself. Maybe top Five?
He has a long way to go to be compared to; Dan Gable, John Smith, Jordan Burroughs and Bruce Baumgartner.

 

[slushhead]

Let's enjoy the next month.

We out recruited PSU this year including Woods walking in and Chit with Block, Ben, and Arnold. Add Nate to what the world knew at the time and we won, hands down. There is no reason to believe we can't match up every year going forward.

As everyone knows, Tom's a competitive guy and that doesn't end when he walks out of the room.

Despite the jokes about Ohio State’s recruiting national champion banners, there isn’t actually a recruiting national champion award. You didn’t win anything with that recruiting class — the class and a supporting cast still has to get on the mat and perform someday. A key piece of that class is already out of the sport, and another key piece is not even committed 100%. Nothing has been “won”.

And while you say “there is no reason to believe we can’t match up every year going forward” . . . how about the converse? What reason is there to believe Iowa recruiting will match up with PSU recruiting every year going forward? There is no track record to indicate that will happen. Having a good class in a single year suddenly sets a trend? Tom having a competitive personality is a new thing?

I know Lar came into the program with a binder of Gold Intel on recruiting strategy what, 5 or 6 years ago? And since then, Spencer is the only champ, and he is now weeks away from his last match. I find it difficult to conclude that the ‘23 recruiting class has somehow put Iowa on the recruiting level of PSU (or even Ohio State) for good.

 

[TailgateTom]

Despite the jokes about Ohio State’s recruiting national champion banners, there isn’t actually a recruiting national champion award. You didn’t win anything with that recruiting class — the class and a supporting cast still has to get on the mat and perform someday. A key piece of that class is already out of the sport, and another key piece is not even committed 100%. Nothing has been “won”.

And while you say “there is no reason to believe we can’t match up every year going forward” . . . how about the converse? What reason is there to believe Iowa recruiting will match up with PSU recruiting every year going forward? There is no track record to indicate that will happen. Having a good class in a single year suddenly sets a trend? Tom having a competitive personality is a new thing?

I know Lar came into the program with a binder of Gold Intel on recruiting strategy what, 5 or 6 years ago? And since then, Spencer is the only champ, and he is now weeks away from his last match. I find it difficult to conclude that the ‘23 recruiting class has somehow put Iowa on the recruiting level of PSU (or even Ohio State) for good.

Haha, you're still bitter Spencer came to Iowa.

 

[slushhead]

Haha, you're still bitter Spencer came to Iowa.

That is a strange inference to draw from what I wrote. And not the least bit accurate.

 

[MSU158]

Let's enjoy the next month.

We out recruited PSU this year including Woods walking in and Chit with Block, Ben, and Arnold. Add Nate to what the world knew at the time and we won, hands down. There is no reason to believe we can't match up every year going forward.

As everyone knows, Tom's a competitive guy and that doesn't end when he walks out of the room.

To be clear, NOTHING I said was meant to be a negative towards the coaching staff. I think they have done a commendable job adjusting their recruiting process. If not for Nate's apparent decision and the questions surrounding Ben, I would say this recruiting class would rival even the best class PSU or tOSU has had over the past dozen years.

With that said, I still stand by it being an unfair comparison to expect Iowa to maintain the recruiting level PSU has made a standard. Even with the new facility on the way, PSU has ridiculous cache with what is almost certainly going to be a 10 out of the last 12 banner selling itself. On top of that, their RTC is BEYOND ridiculous and even with Iowa working hard there is no way to win that sales pitch if a recruit asks them point blank if they could provide him with similar access to current world level medalists.

Now, I know Rome isn't built in a day. Iowa, under Brands, IS doing a ton to try to close that gap. But, that gap is a lot wider than many here want to admit, unless they are trying to blame Brands for it. So, what I am really looking for is Iowa maintaining position as the most consistent best of the rest, while getting the new facility up and running and continuing to raise funds to start re-populating the RTC with top notch talent.

Finally, I think this argument is best re-visited in about 3 or 4 years. By then, Iowa should finally have the resources to possibly level the playing field, as long as PSU doesn't do something new between now and then to raise the bar even higher. Will they be able to sell the program IF they can considerably strengthen the RTC and will they do what is necessary to transform the RTC to truly compete with NLWC? To me, that really is the key factor to leveling the recruiting process...

 

[TailgateTom]

That is a strange inference to draw from what I wrote. And not the least bit accurate.

"I know Lar came into the program with a binder of Gold Intel on recruiting strategy..."

Sure, whatever your say.

 

[bnicolls]

To be clear, NOTHING I said was meant to be a negative towards the coaching staff. I think they have done a commendable job adjusting their recruiting process. If not for Nate's apparent decision and the questions surrounding Ben, I would say this recruiting class would rival even the best class PSU or tOSU has had over the past dozen years.

With that said, I still stand by it being an unfair comparison to expect Iowa to maintain the recruiting level PSU has made a standard. Even with the new facility on the way, PSU has ridiculous cache with what is almost certainly going to be a 10 out of the last 12 banner selling itself. On top of that, their RTC is BEYOND ridiculous and even with Iowa working hard there is no way to win that sales pitch if a recruit asks them point blank if they could provide him with similar access to current world level medalists.

Now, I know Rome isn't built in a day. Iowa, under Brands, IS doing a ton to try to close that gap. But, that gap is a lot wider than many here want to admit, unless they are trying to blame Brands for it. So, what I am really looking for is Iowa maintaining position as the most consistent best of the rest, while getting the new facility up and running and continuing to raise funds to start re-populating the RTC with top notch talent.

Finally, I think this argument is best re-visited in about 3 or 4 years. By then, Iowa should finally have the resources to possibly level the playing field, as long as PSU doesn't do something new between now and then to raise the bar even higher. Will they be able to sell the program IF they can considerably strengthen the RTC and will they do what is necessary to transform the RTC to truly compete with NLWC? To me, that really is the key factor to leveling the recruiting process...

I agree with almost all you are saying except that Iowa cannot match PSU over the long term in recruiting. It can, and should be measured against the finest teams that recruit.

I too don't think we have to compete with NLWC for the best guys at each weight. As great wrestlers don't necessarily make great coaches, great wrestlers don't necessarily make great training partners. Spencer staying on is critical on several levels, however it's been said, by one family, that he may not be the best training partner. I don't know about that. The projected HWC guys next year sure do seem like great training partners. Add Spencer's star value and I believe that's enough in a recruits mind to not be a factor in coming to Iowa. Remember, there's a lot of rolling around in the room available to a recruit prior to commitment. Having engaged post grads certainly helps.

As you say, let's evaluate ourselves in several years. Ping me then so we can compare titles.

best to you

 

[MSU158]

I agree with almost all you are saying except that Iowa cannot match PSU over the long term in recruiting. It can, and should be measured against the finest teams that recruit.

I too don't think we have to compete with NLWC for the best guys at each weight. As great wrestlers don't necessarily make great coaches, great wrestlers don't necessarily make great training partners. Spencer staying on is critical on several levels, however it's been said, by one family, that he may not be the best training partner. I don't know about that. The projected HWC guys next year sure do seem like great training partners. Add Spencer's star value and I believe that's enough in a recruits mind to not be a factor in coming to Iowa. Remember, there's a lot of rolling around in the room available to a recruit prior to commitment. Having engaged post grads certainly helps.

As you say, let's evaluate ourselves in several years. Ping me then so we can compare titles.

best to you

As long as you aren't wanting me to compare Iowa to MSU when asking to evaluate "ourselves" in several years!

I DO think Iowa can get to a comparable level in recruiting, but I don't see that happening until the new facility is up and running and the HWC becomes more prominant. That is why I said 3 or 4 years to re-evaluate.

I get what you are saying when it comes to training partners. But, that can be a very hard sell to a 17-18 year old kid who sees a room full of World Medalists to roll around with vs. recent grads that may have AA'd a couple of times. When it comes to folkstyle success, you have a strong argument that those recent grads could be just as much or even more help with that process. But, so many of the top kids now have crazy World Level aspirations that they may be easily blinded by the hardware in that room.

I guess what I am saying is PSU is currently in a place where they basically sell themselves. While Iowa needs to do some hard salesmanship to convince recruits they can do the same. To me, that is a very hard battle to win on a consistent basis. Yet again, that is why the new facility coupled with some HWC prominence are so crucial to me. They are the type of things that sell themselves!

 

[blhawk]

Iowa has the ability to not be second fiddle to them. Part of it is the money which is being addressed but part of it is also being smart. Carl has certainly benefitted from having the financial backing but he used it smartly as well. Besides "enhancing" his 9.9 he kept building his club little by little until it became a run away train. Like Gable he has been big onto the mental aspects of the athlete including using the head shrink guru. His training and peaking cycles seem to have modernized into a new level. Him and his staff are like invisible giants, what you see and hear from them is next to nothing considering the amount of success they have. They have a system and philosophy and they do them well. Their best guys are kept piped to the machine to further enhance it. Taylor starting the top club in the top state right on his back yard. They are running it like a corporation for winning at wrestling, always thinking to innovate. Carl hates losing more than anyone. You could see it back to ISU coaching that losing drives him like no other. That's why he jumped ship to begin with, the easiest path to winning he could get. I loved how the Brands competed and they too hate to lose. They love their guys and stand by them to a fault at times where Carl would have made upgrades in the name of winning. I think they are good motivators and when it comes to coaching they are tirelessly dedicated. But Carl is playing chess to their checkers when it comes to many intangibles that absolutely matter a lot. The physical build and athleticism of guys he often targets has proven to be much better. He targets a certain style as has Brands and one has proven to be more successful. He has owned Iowa and everyone else when it comes to preparing for and making adjustments in specific matchups. Their techniques are more varied. He is hacking into the security system to get out of jail while Brands tries to break through a concrete wall with a hammer. If we have a staff working the intangibles and being smarter in addition to working hard then Iowa absolutely could be right there. Everything matters from recruiting with energy, effort and excitement to training to how you project as a person. While good for a laugh at times the boorish behavior that is too often exhibited doesn't help this program win, just the opposite. PSU has a recruiting presence anywhere they try to have one. Ours seems much more limited. Mainly down to in state again and an occasional guy elsewhere who we usually have a connection to or who grew up as a fan. Most of the guys in the top 20 pfp ranking each year are guys I automatically figure we won't have a shot at unless they happen to be in state or have an existing connection. Yes the Brands have made some adjustments but are still way behind the Joneses.

Paragraphs....maybe look into them

 

[slushhead]

"I know Lar came into the program with a binder of Gold Intel on recruiting strategy..."

Sure, whatever your say.

Umm, that was a criticism of Tom, and it would have been given no matter who the particular parent was who opened his eyes for him. Just happened to be Lar (according to Tom, at least).

I’m not a state XYZ homer who takes it personally when a state XYZ product takes his services elsewhere. The drama over Spencer leaving PA is silly, IMO. Especially since it had minimal impact to PSU’s success. No one, other than Spencer, should be bitter about Spencer going to Iowa (if, say, he somehow had regrets over his decision).

 

[T8KUDWN]

Umm, that was a criticism of Tom, and it would have been given no matter who the particular parent was who opened his eyes for him. Just happened to be Lar (according to Tom, at least).

I’m not a state XYZ homer who takes it personally when a state XYZ product takes his services elsewhere. The drama over Spencer leaving PA is silly, IMO. Especially since it had minimal impact to PSU’s success. No one, other than Spencer, should be bitter about Spencer going to Iowa (if, say, he somehow had regrets over his decision).

The great thing is Spencer loves it here and has no regrets.
In fact he's going to be here for a long long time

 

[hoythawk]

I agree with him.

The odds of him being elite at both is so low the coaches have to consider telling him to pick one. He at least needs to give a lot of notice if this is the plan. Thankfully Nate did it now instead of this fall. Losing Nate was a big blow but heavyweight is even tougher to replace.

 

[TailgateTom]

Umm, that was a criticism of Tom, and it would have been given no matter who the particular parent was who opened his eyes for him. Just happened to be Lar (according to Tom, at least).

I’m not a state XYZ homer who takes it personally when a state XYZ product takes his services elsewhere. The drama over Spencer leaving PA is silly, IMO. Especially since it had minimal impact to PSU’s success. No one, other than Spencer, should be bitter about Spencer going to Iowa (if, say, he somehow had regrets over his decision).

You are however a cookie cutter PSU fan who likes to flame. I've read your crap for years. Your comment came off incredibly indignant, and you still do with your subsequent comments.

 

[BGon4ND]

Could be nothing but Cody Goodwin's mailbag article mentioned Jesuroga. Got to think may everything isn't set in stone just yet...

Loaded question, which is basically asking for a way-too-early projection of the 2024 NCAA team race. Let's go one-by-one here:

I'd need to ask about specifics regarding covid years, remaining eligibility, and available redshirts — I do know that Abe Assad still has his regular redshirt available, and that Nate Jesuroga, Ben Kueter, and Tony Cassioppi could all take an Olympic redshirt next year by virtue of being age-level world medalists — but Real Woods and Nelson Brands are both planning to be at Iowa next season. At least I haven't heard anything different.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...thoughts-ben-kueter-hawkeyes-isu/69927488007/

 

[slushhead]

You are however a cookie cutter PSU fan who likes to flame. I've read your crap for years. Your comment came off incredibly indignant, and you still do with your subsequent comments.

Sorry you feel that way. Who’s indignant? 🤨

FWIW, and I mean this only as a compliment, I used to think you were one of the funnier posters here with a good sense of humor. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, though.

 

[vhsalum]

The great thing is Spencer loves it here and has no regrets.
In fact he's going to be here for a long long time

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Kueter as a senior in high school with Snyder as a senior in high school

Just for the record, Snyder didn't wrestle--for Good Counsel, Olney MD or anywhere else--his senior year of HS. He went to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado for his senior year of HS.

If Kueter was serious about achieving in wrestling what Kyle has, just maybe he'd have done the same. Then again Kyle was singularly focused on wrestling while Ben has football.

 

[hawx]

I've heard rumors his new training partner is available now that his movie has finished filming

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Cael hates losing more than anyone. You could see it back to ISU coaching that losing drives him like no other. That's why he jumped ship to begin with, the easiest path to winning he could get.

I see this as a half-truth fraught with projection.

If you take Cael at his word, he loves competition. But he does not advocate defining one's self by wins and losses in a sport that is just a game. As such, he cannot logically hate losing while advocate having fun. Of course he will concede most will say they have more fun when they win.

There are many possible reasons for Cael to leave ISU, his alma mater. I doubt fear of continually losing was a significant driver. He had all 10 wrestlers qualify for NCAAs there. He coached an individual NCAA champion there.

Again, taking Cael at his word, he was drawn to PSU's commitment to support being highly competitive in ways that would maximize his wrestlers' chances to grow and be successful. He rarely says win or focuses on the end result of a process that requires commitment and sacrifice.

Celebration of an NCAA Championship is short-lived. The trophies are largely dust collectors.

Cael normally talks of his wrestlers achieving their goals and dreams (or not) and feeling they've succeeded in the part of the journey he's committed to support, regardless of the outcome of a match or career.

This is what all good coaches do, no matter the sport or level of competition.

 

[MVPFAN]

I see this as a half-truth fraught with projection.

If you take Cael at his word, he loves competition. But he does not advocate defining one's self by wins and losses in a sport that is just a game. As such, he cannot logically hate losing while advocate having fun. Of course he will concede most will say they have more fun when they win.

There are many possible reasons for Cael to leave ISU, his alma mater. I doubt fear of continually losing was a significant driver. He had all 10 wrestlers qualify for NCAAs there. He coached an individual NCAA champion there.

Again, taking Cael at his word, he was drawn to PSU's commitment to support being highly competitive in ways that would maximize his wrestlers' chances to grow and be successful. He rarely says win or focuses on the end result of a process that requires commitment and sacrifice.

Celebration of an NCAA Championship is short-lived. The trophies are largely dust collectors.

Cael normally talks of his wrestlers achieving their goals and dreams (or not) and feeling they've succeeded in the part of the journey he's committed to support, regardless of the outcome of a match or career.

This is what all good coaches do, no matter the sport or level of competition.

Who the #$@& is Cael?

 

[BGon4ND]

Just for the record, Snyder didn't wrestle--for Good Counsel, Olney MD or anywhere else--his senior year of HS. He went to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado for his senior year of HS.

If Kueter was serious about achieving in wrestling what Kyle has, just maybe he'd have done the same. Then again Kyle was singularly focused on wrestling while Ben has football.

plus track and baseball.