Lack of Backs

UndercoverHawk · Nov 28, 2016

I thought this was a thread about butts or lack there of. I thought maybe chief somehow got a stream of Purdue and noticed ugly cheerleaders.

artradley · Nov 28, 2016

MVPFAN said:
IMO we have spent too much time trying to turn guys early in the past. Work the TDs and tire them out and them go for backs. If you can't get them then get the tech.

I agree with this strategy. Catch and release until you have the MD, then go for the pins. If you can get a quick tilt earlier, great.

The problem is our guys followed that strategy, broke their opponents mentally, but still couldn't get backs.

255 · Nov 28, 2016

I have always questioned the "developmental" mat strategy. Don't people get a lot of practice in practice? Why not go for the pin every time?
Take them down and try to pin. If 15 second pass and your getting nowhere, let him up and do it again. Just seems in a match you should try and end it.

Azchief32 · Nov 28, 2016

LaxHawk174 said:
Chief's response to him was gold. "Not everybody can dominate guys like Jarrod Maynes from UVU 9-8"

Had that reply or another one. Didn't do it because it would have been too much burn.

artradley · Nov 28, 2016

255 said:
I have always questioned the "developmental" mat strategy. Don't people get a lot of practice in practice? Why not go for the pin every time?
Take them down and try to pin. If 15 second pass and your getting nowhere, let him up and do it again. Just seems in a match you should try and end it.

Agree. But even if you were taking that tact it wouldn't involve not scoring backs. If you're just toying with a guy your "play" should include turning him for NF.

JohnBasedow · Nov 28, 2016

PrairieHawk24 said:
Montoya called out Clark on Twitter
View embedded media

Looks like we got ourselves a Mike Evans fan.

UndercoverHawk · Nov 28, 2016

Azchief32 said:
Had that reply or another one. Didn't do it because it would have been too much burn.

Well don't leave us hanging chief!

JBJRFL · Nov 28, 2016

Azchief32 said:
No back points the whole match despite having dead second period Purdue wrestlers. This has been our undoing. For example, I think a Senior in Gilman should be able to turn guys...same with Clark or Brooks. This is the key to winning titles, or lackthereof in the last five years.

Ironsides complained about it but you can also see it in his mindset...Kemdawg was in a situation trying to turn a guy while trying for a TD and MI got on him about trying to be cute instead of just getting the two. IMO, guys like Kemdawg should think and risk for creativity's sake. Can't get on guys for not opening up and when they do, criticize them for it.

Matches like Purdue should be approached with an eye for getting better, not just winning. Take some risks against a lesser guy, find out what works and what doesn't. If he scores on you, one can still recoup the points.

To be fair, MI criticized him for not getting the two first and then going for backs.

Azchief32 · Nov 28, 2016

UndercoverHawk said:
Well don't leave us hanging chief!

"Agreed. He often wrestles down to lesser competition. 6-0 against Purdue today, 4-0 and 2-0 against...oh wait."

CCAHawkeye · Nov 28, 2016

It is not too hard to imagine the team was instructed as a whole to work on takedowns in general. I like to see back points and pins like everybody else, not that we could, thanks BTN. I will still take 14 points per match against a Big Ten squad.

UndercoverHawk · Nov 28, 2016

Azchief32 said:
"Agreed. He often wrestles down to lesser competition. 6-0 against Purdue today, 4-0 and 2-0 against...oh wait."

Tcalumet · Nov 28, 2016

AFHawk86 said:
Normally I would agree, but I was happy about the aggressiveness from neutral. The Hawks averaged 14 points per match with a lot of TDs. I was more concerned about the inability for Wilcke and Holloway to get out from bottom.

I agree - all last year board was full of complaints of lack of aggressiveness from neutral - great to see the guys getting after it. Purdue definitely wrestled like they didn't want to get embarrassed tryn to keep every match close. Looks like the Hawks are in good shape early season as well.

WWDMHawkeye · Nov 28, 2016

PrairieHawk24 said:
Montoya called out Clark on Twitter
View embedded media

Thanks, PrairieHawk. Makes sense now.

Looks like a certain Hawkeye just got himself a nice little motivational quote for his locker.

Oh, and the possessive apostrophe is a beautiful thing. Wondering if they teach those in Lincoln.

Mendoza77 · Nov 28, 2016

255 said:
I have always questioned the "developmental" mat strategy. Don't people get a lot of practice in practice? Why not go for the pin every time?
Take them down and try to pin. If 15 second pass and your getting nowhere, let him up and do it again. Just seems in a match you should try and end it.

My high school coach taught fundamentals really well and kept it simple. He would say it boils down to three steps: take down, break down, pin!

Tcalumet · Nov 29, 2016

255 said:
I have always questioned the "developmental" mat strategy. Don't people get a lot of practice in practice? Why not go for the pin every time?
Take them down and try to pin. If 15 second pass and your getting nowhere, let him up and do it again. Just seems in a match you should try and end it.

I agree but in a match against Purdue early season it's good to work out some kinks in the neutral position against lesser opponents.

Pennstate1985 · Nov 29, 2016

Tcalumet said:
I agree but in a match against Purdue early season it's good to work out some kinks in the neutral position against lesser opponents.

Devils advocate. How often do you see TD clinics at nationals as compared to tilting combos from neutral and/or top? We're talking about what gets you closer to bonus with the least risk and the greater benefit. A two point TD (really only one because of escape) or a four point NF. Which should be practiced more in live matches?

1stplacehawk · Nov 29, 2016

Pennstate1985 said:
Devils advocate. How often do you see TD clinics at nationals as compared to tilting combos from neutral and/or top? We're talking about what gets you closer to bonus with the least risk and the greater benefit. A two point TD (really only one because of escape) or a four point NF. Which should be practiced more in live matches?

You don't see either very often at nationals

DonHawkeye · Nov 29, 2016

Pennstate1985 said:
Devils advocate. How often do you see TD clinics at nationals as compared to tilting combos from neutral and/or top? We're talking about what gets you closer to bonus with the least risk and the greater benefit. A two point TD (really only one because of escape) or a four point NF. Which should be practiced more in live matches?

I would say that at nationals you should be trying to build a lead and take a guy out of the match if you outmatch the guy. If you are best on your feet or the other guy is not likely to get turned you should be doing it on your feet + Riding guys out at the end of periods and looking for opportunistic back points.

LaxHawk174 · Nov 29, 2016

Azchief32 said:
"Agreed. He often wrestles down to lesser competition. 6-0 against Purdue today, 4-0 and 2-0 against...oh wait."

LaxHawk174 · Nov 29, 2016

Back to the topic at hand... Below is projection with no Marinelli in at 165. Think he would be about 6th-R12 right now.

2016
125: 2nd Place-21.5 pts
133: 2nd Place-17 pts
141: DNQ-0 pts
149: 2nd Place-17 pts
157: (1-2)R24-1 pt
165: (0-2)R32-0 pts
174: 8th Place-6 pts
184: 8th Place-7 pts
197: 4th Place-12.5 pts
285: (0-2)R32-0 pts
Team Total: 81

2017
125: 1st place-25.5 pts +4
133: 1st place-21 pts +4
141: (2-2)R16-1.5 pts +1.5
149: 2nd Place-18 pts +1
157: 3rd Place-16.5 pts +15.5
165: (1-2)R24-.5 pts +.5
174: 6th Place-10.5 pts +4.5
184: 5th Place-12 pts +5
197: (2-2)R16-1.5 pts -11
285: 5th Place-12 pts +12
Team Total: 119

artradley · Nov 29, 2016

LaxHawk174 said:
Back to the topic at hand... Below is projection with no Marinelli in at 165. Think he would be about 6th-R12 right now.

2016
125: 2nd Place-21.5 pts
133: 2nd Place-17 pts
141: DNQ-0 pts
149: 2nd Place-17 pts
157: (1-2)R24-1 pt
165: (0-2)R32-0 pts
174: 8th Place-6 pts
184: 8th Place-7 pts
197: 4th Place-12.5 pts
285: (0-2)R32-0 pts
Team Total: 81

2017
125: 1st place-25.5 pts +4
133: 1st place-21 pts +4
141: (2-2)R16-1.5 pts +1.5
149: 2nd Place-18 pts +1
157: 3rd Place-16.5 pts +15.5
165: (1-2)R24-.5 pts +.5
174: 6th Place-10.5 pts +4.5
184: 5th Place-12 pts +5
197: (2-2)R16-1.5 pts -11
285: 5th Place-12 pts +12
Team Total: 119

That is extremely optimistic.

kingslayer_85 · Nov 30, 2016

artradley said:
That is extremely optimistic.

what fun is it to be a fan if you can't be optimistic, every spring I think the Phillies will win the world series. I have PSU with 10 AA's this year

crablegs1 · Nov 30, 2016

kingslayer_85 said:
what fun is it to be a fan if you can't be optimistic, every spring I think the Phillies will win the world series. I have PSU with 10 AA's this year

Well, of course, the problem is continuously getting your soul crushed when things don't work out. Take it from a Vikings fan. That is why I take the pessimistic approach to my teams.

Pennstate1985 · Nov 30, 2016

kingslayer_85 said:
what fun is it to be a fan if you can't be optimistic. I have PSU with 10 AA's this year

Only 10??

Kwoodhawk · Nov 30, 2016

kingslayer_85 said:
what fun is it to be a fan if you can't be optimistic, every spring I think the Phillies will win the world series. I have PSU with 10 AA's this year

I heard they were trying to buy 12 with their slush fund this year.

Lack of Backs

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