Little brother not so little anymore?

[theIowaHawk]

Do you really believe that over the last 10 years that the Big 10 's post season performance is much different than the Big12's?

Your question was intriguing enough for me to look it up. Although it might have already been answered, it got annoying sifting through the 89/91 and redcy nonsense.

This was the easiest link, went 2000-2009: http://blog.philsteele.com/2010/07/10/conference-bowl-rankings-past-decade/

B10 was 28-41, 6-11 BCS. B12 was 38-39, 6-9. Obviously Nebraska has switched sides now, confusing who gets to count what, but I think wins stay within the conference they are earned.

Looks like since then it is B10 (17-26); B12 (18-20), obviously Ohio State won championship, and the SEC won the rest. Mich State beat Baylor in the only matchup last bowl season. KState beat Mich the year before.

As I said previously, I would love to switch SOS, but no way am I switching the opponents. B12's ranking was not better than B10s last year. Ohio State and Michigan State were top ten, as were Baylor and TCU, we know where they ended up. Then Wisconsin and KState were ranked top 20. Nebraska and Minnesota got votes, so did Oklahoma.

B12 went 5-30 vs ranked teams last year. Sure, call out Iowa for not beating winning teams, but the B12 was not good vs. competition, especially within their own conference.

One of the reasons I like "my" conference and wouldn't switch: B12 teams gave up, on average, 30 more points than B10, 4 basically gave up 400+ points, one did that in Big Ten. 4 in Big ten gave up 200 range, only TCU did for B12. Different conferences, different styles.

 

[89and91]

Your question was intriguing enough for me to look it up. Although it might have already been answered, it got annoying sifting through the 89/91 and redcy nonsense.

This was the easiest link, went 2000-2009: http://blog.philsteele.com/2010/07/10/conference-bowl-rankings-past-decade/

B10 was 28-41, 6-11 BCS. B12 was 38-39, 6-9. Obviously Nebraska has switched sides now, confusing who gets to count what, but I think wins stay within the conference they are earned.

Looks like since then it is B10 (17-26); B12 (18-20), obviously Ohio State won championship, and the SEC won the rest. Mich State beat Baylor in the only matchup last bowl season. KState beat Mich the year before.

As I said previously, I would love to switch SOS, but no way am I switching the opponents. B12's ranking was not better than B10s last year. Ohio State and Michigan State were top ten, as were Baylor and TCU, we know where they ended up. Then Wisconsin and KState were ranked top 20. Nebraska and Minnesota got votes, so did Oklahoma.

B12 went 5-30 vs ranked teams last year. Sure, call out Iowa for not beating winning teams, but the B12 was not good vs. competition, especially within their own conference.

One of the reasons I like "my" conference and wouldn't switch: B12 teams gave up, on average, 30 more points than B10, 4 basically gave up 400+ points, one did that in Big Ten. 4 in Big ten gave up 200 range, only TCU did for B12. Different conferences, different styles.

Please refrain from using verifiable facts when discussing SOS with isu fans. SOS is all they have to cling to and will never give it up for why in their eyes they go 5-19 over two years well into a coaches tenure. Of course the rest of the world sees it for what it really is, isu always returns to their normal level of performance. They savor the 7 win seasons because like a fine wine for isu they don't come around very often.

 

[normgranger]

The only thing that makes the stadium at Isu look decent is all the foo foo thy hang on it or the flags or some other make up they slather on it. Fact is it's still just a big chunk of concrete with some color. I agree their new additions look good and help the overall appearence, but it can't compare with kinnick. Kinnick is a classic stadium that Isu will never be able to duplicate. Jmo....,great basketball arena though....

 

[theIowaHawk]

89/91:

Please stop quoting me. Thanks in advance.

 

[IACentralHawk73]

The problem with B12 is that they do have very good teams, I will say that, but they beat up on each other during the conference season which really hampers their postseason success as of recent. I think the same goes for basketball as well.

 

[89and91]

The problem with B12 is that they do have very good teams, I will say that, but they beat up on each other during the conference season which really hampers their postseason success as of recent. I think the same goes for basketball as well.

So now the only reason the Big 12 does poorly in the post season is because the best players are always injured and can't participate?

I find it hard to believe that has been the case for a decade. What is more likely is that the Big 12 is over-rated and has been for the better part of a decade. When the post season rolls around the hype and rankings prove to be a myth. Ten years is too long of a trend for it to be as simple as some players are unable to play because they are "beat up"

 

[Herkmeister]

Gary Barta, the Superstar & award winning contract negotiator, will always keep Iowa ahead of Iowa State. I know it, you know it, and damn it, the people of Iowa know it.

 

[normgranger]

That

Gary Barta, the Superstar & award winning contract negotiator, will always keep Iowa ahead of Iowa State. I know it, you know it, and damn it, the people of Iowa know it.[. That's funny right there! I don't care who you are, that's funny ....,,,,,

 

[IACentralHawk73]

So now the only reason the Big 12 does poorly in the post season is because the best players are always injured and can't participate?

I find it hard to believe that has been the case for a decade. What is more likely is that the Big 12 is over-rated and has been for the better part of a decade. When the post season rolls around the hype and rankings prove to be a myth. Ten years is too long of a trend for it to be as simple as some players are unable to play because they are "beat up"

It's either that or the Big 12 is a pillow fight, which I find hard to believe.

 

[89and91]

It's either that or the Big 12 is a pillow fight, which I find hard to believe.

More likely the post season results speak for themselves. The Big 12 has been over ranked for football and MBB for the better part of a decade.

Getting clone fans to accept the data is as elusive as a four leaf clover.

 

[cruhawk]

You are correct that it looks better in person. Here's a recent photo.

ISU MBB has outdrawn Iowa in 7 of the past 10 seasons -- without giving away free tickets to students, as Iowa has done. And the reason they've drawn only 200 more than Iowa is, in large part, due to capacity.

What's interesting is the numbers for women's hoops. Iowa had one of its greatest seasons in history while ISU was below-par and disappointing....but ISU attendance was almost double that at Iowa City.

But in all fairness, I concede that there is no comparison between the field hockey and rowing teams.

But most of that "seven out of ten" included the end of the Alford era, the duration of the Lickliter era, and then Fran's first years, when he was basically trying to clean up the mess. As Fran gains recruiting momentum, any small advantage ISU has enjoyed will go away. The window is closing fast. With a fraction of the athletic budget Iowa has, ISU will be hard-pressed to match Iowa....and if they do, it would be because Iowa shoots themselves in the foot.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Ah, those glorious parking lots!

 

[Lone Clone]

But most of that "seven out of ten" included the end of the Alford era, the duration of the Lickliter era, and then Fran's first years, when he was basically trying to clean up the mess. As Fran gains recruiting momentum, any small advantage ISU has enjoyed will go away. The window is closing fast. With a fraction of the athletic budget Iowa has, ISU will be hard-pressed to match Iowa....and if they do, it would be because Iowa shoots themselves in the foot.

Yeah, ISU was really at its peak under Wayne Morgan and Greg McDermott at the time in question.

 

[89and91]

Yeah, ISU was really at its peak under Wayne Morgan and Greg McDermott at the time in question.

I still can't figure out why isu fans always have to limit their arguments to certain and select time frames.

I am sure LC will clear it up for us.

 

[I4cy]

http://www.fpm.iastate.edu/webcam/stadium/

 

[89and91]

http://www.fpm.iastate.edu/webcam/stadium/

http://www.schooldesigner.com/desig...allen-independent-school-district&Element=227

I guess Trice still reminds me of this high school stadium in Texas.

 

[ichawk24]

Because 18k is almost the same as 61k.

 

[89and91]

Because 18k is almost the same as 61k.

Nope because Trice looks like that HS stadium in Texas.

 

[ichawk24]

You complain about the lunacy of Cyclone fans, yet want to equate their stadium with one that has 30% the capacity of Jack Trice. You have the same difficulty grasping reality.

 

[89and91]

You complain about the lunacy of Cyclone fans, yet want to equate their stadium with one that has 30% the capacity of Jack Trice. You have the same difficulty grasping reality.

I am willing to bet the high school stadium is fuller than Trice come November. That isn't a failure to grasp reality it is isu being isu.

 

[Aegon_Targaryen]

Nope because Trice looks like that HS stadium in Texas.

It really doesn't, it's actually looking pretty good these days. This coming from a U of I alum and fan. Sorry buddy, but ISU is growing up. In the past two decades we've lost to them more than we have won.

 

[89and91]

It really doesn't, it's actually looking pretty good these days. This coming from a U of I alum and fan. Sorry buddy, but ISU is growing up. In the past two decades we've lost to them more than we have won.

It really doesn't, it's actually looking pretty good these days. This coming from a U of I alum and fan. Sorry buddy, but ISU is growing up. In the past two decades we've lost to them more than we have won.

Yet they are still little brother. Have you seen Pollards latest marketing gem? Forever one. Who knew they meant one as in one football conference championship since 1911.

They sure are growing up though. All schools have a bad century of football don't they?

 

[WildTurk]

Anybody want to get some ice cream?

 

[cidhawkeye]

Didn't that stadium in Texas get closed or have some serious issues with it? As an FYI ISU is doing good things with their facilities.

 

[5Fan5]

It really doesn't, it's actually looking pretty good these days. This coming from a U of I alum and fan. Sorry buddy, but ISU is growing up. In the past two decades we've lost to them more than we have won.

I do not believe this to be accurate.

But, more to the point. isu is forced to 'grow up' now. The notion that things can just continue status quo for them is no longer possible. Conferences have now realigned with generally good to great success yet the big xii is still lingering in a self made purgatory of sorts. Should the concept of four super-conferences ever come about, the big xii will very likely be on the outside looking in once again.

Building an addition onto Jack Trice is nice. Filling the stadium on any type of routine basis is a whole other matter. From the latest promotion ($99 mini ticket package to include UNI and Iowa), isu is still very fat away from being a truly relevant major college football program.

 

[Aegon_Targaryen]

I do not believe this to be accurate.

But, more to the point. isu is forced to 'grow up' now. The notion that things can just continue status quo for them is no longer possible. Conferences have now realigned with generally good to great success yet the big xii is still lingering in a self made purgatory of sorts. Should the concept of four super-conferences ever come about, the big xii will very likely be on the outside looking in once again.

Building an addition onto Jack Trice is nice. Filling the stadium on any type of routine basis is a whole other matter. From the latest promotion ($99 mini ticket package to include UNI and Iowa), isu is still very fat away from being a truly relevant major college football program.

I looked it's been half and half. I actually thought those Clones held an edge. At least that's one thing. Ferentz though has been owned by them.
I agree with what you say about filling the stadium, but if they can somehow find success, even if just a moderate amount, they will continue to be a problem, and the stadium will fill up.
Keep in mind they haven't been relevant while taking our team down. Maybe it's a Ferentz thing, maybe not, but we have to face facts.
I'm a huge Iowa supporter, but from what I've seen, there are changes coming. It's better to recognize and deal, instead of ignoring it like Iowa has been.
Iowa needs to step up and take control of the state once again. It got lazy and here we are.

 

[5Fan5]

I looked it's been half and half. I actually thought those Clones held an edge. At least that's one thing. Ferentz though has been owned by them.
I agree with what you say about filling the stadium, but if they can somehow find success, even if just a moderate amount, they will continue to be a problem, and the stadium will fill up.
Keep in mind they haven't been relevant while taking our team down. Maybe it's a Ferentz thing, maybe not, but we have to face facts.
I'm a huge Iowa supporter, but from what I've seen, there are changes coming. It's better to recognize and deal, instead of ignoring it like Iowa has been.
Iowa needs to step up and take control of the state once again. It got lazy and here we are.

Since you interject 'facing facts' to this, how about we take a closer look at things.

Iowa, under Coach Ferentz has not been owned by isu. Yes the overall record is 7-9, but you need only look at the disparity (or lack there of in the case of isu victories) in score of those games to know that isu has not owned anything other than the right to say they hold a slight advantage. It was heard/read loud and clear on boards and media reports how close the final score (27-21) the 2013 game ended up being. Facts show that isu has failed to better that meager six-point margin in at least six of those wins against Ferentz coached Iowa teams. Iowa conversely has won games of 35-3, 35-7, 40-21, 17-5, 27-17 versus isu while KF has been coaching.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but what exactly makes you believe that isu fans will ever consistently fill Jack Trice? Is it the fact that in some 45 years of existence, those loyal fans have sold out the venue a handful of times? Since the 56,800 capacity figure was pried from the athletic department in Ames, there have been I believe four total games that were considered sold out at least two of those were against non-big xii opposition. When the opportunity to achieve at least a divisional crown presented itself in 2004, isu fans were quite few and far between when Missouri came into Ames. Top ranked, conference foe Oklahoma State in 2011 resulted in drastically reduced tickets being sold up to game time and it still failed to fill Trice.

Perhaps it has nothing to do with anyone being lazy at all. It very well could be with having a set of priorities that simply do not align with the misplaced fervor of some that think that beating or even playing isu every year just has to be number one in importance. It does not. Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin all survive without in-state football competition. Even a team such as Penn State does not pin its success on beating the likes of Pitt year in and year out.

Stop worrying so much about isu. They have their own set of hurdles to overcome - not the least which is convincing someone, anyone that they are a viable division one (power five league) program. Apparently to them, beating Iowa 9 out of 16 times and building an addition onto a stadium that very rarely has ever sold out will do the trick.

 

[89and91]

I looked it's been half and half. I actually thought those Clones held an edge. At least that's one thing. Ferentz though has been owned by them.
I agree with what you say about filling the stadium, but if they can somehow find success, even if just a moderate amount, they will continue to be a problem, and the stadium will fill up.
Keep in mind they haven't been relevant while taking our team down. Maybe it's a Ferentz thing, maybe not, but we have to face facts.
I'm a huge Iowa supporter, but from what I've seen, there are changes coming. It's better to recognize and deal, instead of ignoring it like Iowa has been.
Iowa needs to step up and take control of the state once again. It got lazy and here we are.

isu still is millions behind Iowa in every way. Iowa doesn't and shouldn't compare themselves to little brother. isu can claim selective wins here and there but can't and won't overtake Iowa anytime soon. Regardless of who is coaching. The thing with isu is that even when they have success it tends to be fleeting and then they return to their normal level of performance.

 

[Lone Clone]

I looked it's been half and half. I actually thought those Clones held an edge. At least that's one thing. Ferentz though has been owned by them.
I agree with what you say about filling the stadium, but if they can somehow find success, even if just a moderate amount, they will continue to be a problem, and the stadium will fill up.
Keep in mind they haven't been relevant while taking our team down. Maybe it's a Ferentz thing, maybe not, but we have to face facts.
I'm a huge Iowa supporter, but from what I've seen, there are changes coming. It's better to recognize and deal, instead of ignoring it like Iowa has been.
Iowa needs to step up and take control of the state once again. It got lazy and here we are.

If you discount the wackos (we all know who they are), I think the unhappiness of Hawkeye fans with the record against ISU is due precisely to all the advantages Iowa has: Much more money, bigger fan base, much more tradition, vastly better media. When you compare what the two programs are getting for their money, it isn't something to make a Hawkeye fan sleep soundly.

It isn't quite like Ohio State and/or Texas, whose fans could legitimately expect to win every game in every sport -- especially Texas. But as Hayden Fry once said after a loss to ISU, "I don't see how they keep beating us with players we don't want!" He wasn't being honest -- several of the ISU players on that team had been offered scholarships by Iowa -- but his point was clear.

As for filling the stadium, ISU will do that if the team deserves it. The ISU fan base simply is not the kind that will show up no matter what they're expecting to see.

 

[89and91]

If you discount the wackos (we all know who they are), I think the unhappiness of Hawkeye fans with the record against ISU is due precisely to all the advantages Iowa has: Much more money, bigger fan base, much more tradition, vastly better media. When you compare what the two programs are getting for their money, it isn't something to make a Hawkeye fan sleep soundly.

It isn't quite like Ohio State and/or Texas, whose fans could legitimately expect to win every game in every sport -- especially Texas. But as Hayden Fry once said after a loss to ISU, "I don't see how they keep beating us with players we don't want!" He wasn't being honest -- several of the ISU players on that team had been offered scholarships by Iowa -- but his point was clear.

As for filling the stadium, ISU will do that if the team deserves it. The ISU fan base simply is not the kind that will show up no matter what they're expecting to see.

If money, fan base size, tradition and media were really what leads to success Iowa wouldn't have better results against Michigan or PSU the past ten years or so.

The the massive difference between Iowa and isu fans is that you don't see Iowa fans on Michigan or Penn State sites trying to convince them how much better we are.

But feel free LC to tell us how it really is. Always good for a laugh.

 

[5Fan5]

If you discount the wackos (we all know who they are), I think the unhappiness of Hawkeye fans with the record against ISU is due precisely to all the advantages Iowa has: Much more money, bigger fan base, much more tradition, vastly better media. When you compare what the two programs are getting for their money, it isn't something to make a Hawkeye fan sleep soundly.

It isn't quite like Ohio State and/or Texas, whose fans could legitimately expect to win every game in every sport -- especially Texas. But as Hayden Fry once said after a loss to ISU, "I don't see how they keep beating us with players we don't want!" He wasn't being honest -- several of the ISU players on that team had been offered scholarships by Iowa -- but his point was clear.

As for filling the stadium, ISU will do that if the team deserves it. The ISU fan base simply is not the kind that will show up no matter what they're expecting to see.

Discounting wackos... now that is comical. Where precisely would someone with over 80,000 posts (and way too many on HR) fit on the LC wacko scale?

Ah yes, the alas.. we are the poor little ole isu excuse. Iowa has much more money because Iowa deserves and has earned that money the same way that isu has failed in its many attempts to even that measure. Iowa has a bigger fan base because Iowa fans, by and large, are not nearly as fair-weather and fickle as isu fans. Better media? Whom better to know that than a former ink-stained ragamuffin? Again, as a business sector, most media outlets realized long ago which team was worthy of their efforts and it was not the team from Ames.

Getting for your money? Did not we see a specific thread on these very boards that went on and on and on about how isu charges just as much, if not more, that Iowa for season football tickets? The lack of consistency from thread to thread here is laughable. But then again, when the quantity of posting vastly outweighs the quality/content of those posts, it is easy to understand!

 

[89and91]

Discounting wackos... now that is comical. Where precisely would someone with over 80,000 posts (and way too many on HR) fit on the LC wacko scale?

Ah yes, the alas.. we are the poor little ole isu excuse. Iowa has much more money because Iowa deserves and has earned that money the same way that isu has failed in its many attempts to even that measure. Iowa has a bigger fan base because Iowa fans, by and large, are not nearly as fair-weather and fickle as isu fans. Better media? Whom better to know that than a former ink-stained ragamuffin? Again, as a business sector, most media outlets realized long ago which team was worthy of their efforts and it was not the team from Ames.

Getting for your money? Did not we see a specific thread on these very boards that went on and on and on about how isu charges just as much, if not more, that Iowa for season football tickets? The lack of consistency from thread to thread here is laughable. But then again, when the quantity of posting vastly outweighs the quality/content of those posts, it is easy to understand!

Stop using facts. Those that do are wackos. LC will tell you just ask him.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

This thread is still alive? I thought all the actual Cyclone fans had been beaten back with a giant metal rod. Then again, dead horses.......

 

[doughudd]

I am willing to bet the high school stadium is fuller than Trice come November. That isn't a failure to grasp reality it is isu being isu.

I'll take that bet! Name the amount. It's a sucker bet cuz the stadium was shut down in 2014 because of structural issues. Cracks in the foundation caused it to be closed. They may get it repaired by the end of the year.

 

[89and91]

I'll take that bet! Name the amount. It's a sucker bet cuz the stadium was shut down in 2014 because of structural issues. Cracks in the foundation caused it to be closed. They may get it repaired by the end of the year.

There are other Texas High School Stadiums that Trice bears a striking resemblance to. Unlike Trce though, they will be near capacity in November.

 

[doughudd]

There are other Texas High School Stadiums that Trice bears a striking resemblance to. Unlike Trce though, they will be near capacity in November.

This is not my fight but that is a really stupid thing to say.

at Jack Trice Stadium, Ames, IA

• Date: November 29
• Game time: 11:05 a.m. CST
• Game weather: Temperature: 45° • Wind: WSW 5 • Weather: Clear
• Game attendance: 50,059

 

[89and91]

This is not my fight but that is a really stupid thing to say.

at Jack Trice Stadium, Ames, IA

• Date: November 29
• Game time: 11:05 a.m. CST
• Game weather: Temperature: 45° • Wind: WSW 5 • Weather: Clear
• Game attendance: 50,059

I am sure fanny in seats for isu's games this November will be below 50k.

 

[DarkThunder#61]

It really doesn't, it's actually looking pretty good these days. This coming from a U of I alum and fan. Sorry buddy, but ISU is growing up. In the past two decades we've lost to them more than we have won.

Depends on your definition of two decades. If by two decades you mean the Ferentz era then yeah. But otherwise in the last 20 meetings, the series is tied 10-10. We've lost to them as much as they've lost to us. Still disappointing, sure.

 

[DarkThunder#61]

Stop worrying so much about isu. They have there own set of hurdles to overcome - not the least which is convincing someone, anyone that they are a viable division one (power five league) program. Apparently to them, beating Iowa 9 out of 16 times and building an addition onto a stadium that very rarely has ever sold out will do the trick.

Yeah that about sums it up.

 

[Lone Clone]

Yeah that about sums it up.

Except that ISU has sold out several times in the past couple of years, and Iowa has had only one sellout in that time --- the Iowa State game. We Cyclones have to think again about continuing to prop up the Iowa program.