They are forecasted for all top tens in their lineup next year except for 197.
Logan Ryan is out
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They are forecasted for all top tens in their lineup next year except for 197.
I would rather have gotten Snyder than Holloway
That one is pretty obvious, but in the off chance you do everything you can but still dont get him then what? Holloway or kollin Moore ? without hindsight not an easy choice
Valencia than Wilcke
We tried to recruit both Valencia's, but the more likely result would not be between them and Wilcke but if we got them we would not have got Young and
Marianelli. Now it not so easy, but Valencia's never seriously considered coming to Iowa afaik
I know you are being a bit tongue and cheek, although I wish it was as easy as running down the 10 ten p4p and choosing what weights you need,and who will be on the board next year. Right now psu looks like they have been doing that (you know because they have). We develop as good as anyone, so it will not be long.
I'm glad we didn't get Sourino, (out of hs, I would take him now) for obvious reasons. That is why it is such a tough game to look into the future. Who would have guessed, something like that could happen. But that is the first time (maybe Alton's? too) that one of Cael's big recruits didn't pan out . So who knows maybe all of our guys will pan out not get homesick and not get injured for next 7 years. Its a fine line between Destin Mccauley and Kyle Snyder
Cael is so good he recruits 6 of the top 5 p4p guys! ;-)
I don't know what the rest means but I assume that's some sort of board/anti-PSU humor that I'm missing out on.
Sure, they have 6 top 5 guys now - Hall, Suriano, Joseph, Nevills, Nolf, & Retherford. Even the Great Cael can't get six in the same year. The rest of the post you can ignore - you're not missing anything.
Why do so many Bett stars fail to thrive at the next level? They sent 4-5 multiple x state champs to Iowa and none cracked the lineup. This is a legit question not a troll or bash. Danny runs a great program there and he has loaded his walls with individual titles, but in recent memory they haven't succeeded in D1 programs. Is it burnout or do they just all peak under that system at an earlier age? Thoughts?
Next year, probably RBY and Teasdale at 125,133 if RBY can make the cut. But here are their top ten p4p that will be on their squad next year.
RBY
Teasdale
Lee,N
Lee, J (will not finish high school, but is right outside top ten)
Wittlake
Beard
Berge
Nolf
Joseph
Hall
Manville
Nickal
Nevills
Nevills,Seth (sits at 11...don't see him losing so will probably end up top ten)
*Cortez-#1 in his weight class
That's 15 guys to Iowa's four. I know you're a literalist so technically, all 35 guys are not top ten but we don't know their lineup yet. Beard could theoretically come in and take over 197. But I'm guessing PSU recruited very few guys that are not on the above list. For example, Verkeleen was not recruited by PSU...just went on his own. He was top 20 P4P. Maybe they recruited Rasheed and Cassar but I'm thinking that's about it. The rest of the guys get in the team picture.
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It's really no different than other Iowa HS. Waverly Shellrock produced a lot of d1 guys for a period, none of them really set the world on fire in college. IC West had several as well and only St. John made it to the top. I don't think this is a negative for the kids or their HS programs. The likelihood of any 1-2X HS state champion being a D1 all-american or better is low to begin with. In addition, yes, I would agree that many of these kids have been so well coached on the youth and HS level that they don't always have a ton of room for improvement compared to other wrestlers who have more natural or untapped talent. But that isn't a knock on their coaches or HS program, it's actually a compliment that they were able to make them as successful as they were.
Class of 2018-RBY, Teasdale, Beard, Wittlake. Nevills and Joe Lee are right outside at 11 and 13 respectively. The year isn't done yet so we'll see how it shakes out.
I agree in large part, but there do seem to be schools that have talent translate better at D1. Linn-Mar with Borschel and McDonough, SEP with Clark, Meyer, Miklus come to mind.
Thanks! First off, I need to realize "next year" is here and start thinking about "next year" as 2018-19.
Also, I'm not always up on wrestling recruiting and where recruits are ranked. I'm able to be less than literal when I want to be. I think this stresses the overall point of how difficult it would be to have a college wrestling program if all you did was recruit top 10 p4p kids. PSU, even with all their advantages, though really close to fielding a top 10 p4p lineup in the coming years, doesn't even do that.
I also think we have a disagreement or misunderstanding of what "being recruited" means. Verkeleen, Rasheed, Cassar didn't just magically show up in Happy Valley classes. These kids undoubtedly took visits, had PSU staff visit their high schools and club practices, visit their homes, signed NLIs, etc. That's being recruited.
I think you might be missing the tongue in cheek element of recruiting 6 of the top 5 p4p in the same year. ;-)
From what I understand, Verk going to PSU was almost a complete surprise to the staff. He originally signed with ISU, than left. He looked at a few other places and that was it. He is essentially walking on at PSU because of their wrestling and his bro is there. PSU is not going to kick him out of bed but the guy they targeted was Berge.
Like I said, they maybe put effort into a few kids like Cassar or Rasheed, but 15/20 guys that Cael targeted are top ten P4P? That's pretty amazing and shows that Tarp is not far off when he says only recruit or give money to those guys.
Look at it this way: Teske is a fringe top 30 and he's being actively recruited by PSU.
I don't think my opinion or point has changed at all. Unless you're Cael Sanderson at PSU, who can only get close, that plan isn't going to work.
Bettendorf, like IC West, was the king of the Iowa HS athletic transfer system for awhile. IMO, those situations are going to be very, very tricky for college coaches when it comes to recruiting those kids (and their families). The insatiable families that go to extraordinary measures to move, all in the name of HS wrestling programs....well, lets just say I'm not sure the elevators are going all the way to the top in those situations. I think in many cases the athlete may very well have peaked or is already close to peaking under club coaching and Daddy coaching.....and because this is the case....the parents seek another program to help their athlete find the next level and to potentially earn a scholarship that was never really there in the first place.
Moreover, Knight and Reiland, although solid wrestling coaches in their own right, don't have to develop or "coach up" talented kids that show up at their doors...they fine tune them and put them in the lineup and go grab another IAHSAA trophy. Interestingly, this sort of thing rarely has led to long term success on the Iowa HS scene, as the community and club development grow weary as home grown kids gets squeezed.....ultimately hurting numbers in the sport of wrestling.
Kind of crazy stuff when you think about it and it happens all the time....this years prize goes to SE Polk who will have two Indianola all-staters come over.......
But you can't wait to recruit them, so if they aren't top ten p4p, apparently no interest from some here, they can re riot themselves and walk on.
Of course I agree entirely. And our recruiting strategy has improved significantly since the nadir of a few years ago.
Recruit only top-10 P4P is shorthand for a broader statement about recruiting philosophy. You can turn it into a strawman if you insist on the strictest reading of it, with no allowance for guys that you recruit and still don't get (Berge, Suriano), guys that you get but decommit (Teasdale), and holes that you scramble to fill with hard-working guys with upside potential because you couldn't get a top-10 guy (Wilcke and Holloway).
But that leaves an awful lot of room for a reasonable person to agree. If you still cling to the quaint notion that there's no correlation between high school ranking and NCAA performance, that recruits don't need to feel wanted, or that Iowa's strategy should be to go after 2-3 decent guys at each weight and see who rises to the occasion, you're describing our recruiting mindset circa 2011-12, when we were fat on the hog and certain we were smarter than everyone else. We know how that turned out.
And if you think the top-10 philosophy is ridiculous then you haven't been paying attention to recent NCAA results.
But that leaves an awful lot of room for a reasonable person to agree. If you still cling to the quaint notion that there's no correlation between high school ranking and NCAA performance, that recruits don't need to feel wanted, or that Iowa's strategy should be to go after 2-3 decent guys at each weight and see who rises to the occasion, you're describing our recruiting mindset circa 2011-12, when we were fat on the hog and certain we were smarter than everyone else. We know how that turned out.
And if you think the top-10 philosophy is ridiculous then you haven't been paying attention to recent NCAA results.
So basically you just meant recruit the best wrestlers you possibly can into your program. Very innovative.
Doesn't seem like brain surgery, does it? And yet that's not what we were doing.
You can almost always tell what top guys won't pan out. They are the ones with stories about them drinking all of the time, partying, possibly an arrest or two, etc. Hence Destin McCauley. Or they are the guys with limited athleticism. Hence Nick Moore or Jeva.
We don't want him either. But I get it. Picking PD3 to go from 6th place to 5th
Shame on you guy's....now where's my popcorn.........suckers
Huh? Moore and Josh D were top ten pfp?
Says the guy doing coke with a hooker in the john....
This captures my thoughts exactly. ^^ The phenomenon is not limited to Iowa HS's either, there are other very strong HS programs that produce few, or even none at all, really high end D1 wrestlers. To me, this is a nature v. nurture type of thing at a level. It's just so hard to "grow" a super D1 wrestler, you can "grow" a really good HS wrestler...but you really need the genes AND the training to succeed at the highest D1 level.
Maybe he just couldn't see your question from way up on his high horse.
Guess I didn't realize that "recruit only top 10 p4p" was a strict reading of "recruit only top 10 p4p."
My bad.
I love this idea that OSU/PSU suddenly figured out only recruit the best and now some sort of landscape has changed...
Yeah, that was what did it, amazing no one though of it before, glad Tom finally did!
Sure wish you would have gotten ahold of Brands before he signed some of those guys.
Sure, all the studs of the 2000's are choir boys. Don't believe it for a second.
There are guys who drink and are great. There are guys who have a problem with substances in the top 10. Is that so hard for you to understand, idiot?
That's not what you said though is it twat-waffle?
Can't wait to see your list of who is going to pan out and who isn't. Should be a dandy. Wonder if I'll be able to sleep..................LOL!
Jesse Whitman
Mike Uker
Jody Strittmatter
Fulsaas
Dan Dennis
Paul Jenn - just because he beat Cael
Just to name a few....that's called evaluation of talent/desire
Love those guys but the paradigm has changed. Two things did it: Title IX and Cael. A lot of wrestling programs got canceled and the talent was more spread out. Used to be, you could afford to miss on some big recruits and develop lower end ones. Kids are coming in ready to win and 15 of those will be on PSU's roster next year. Not all of them will be elite college wrestlers but that it's a big margin for error.
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