I'm not a big recruiting follower. Apart from Kem and Lee, are thsee guys REALLY on the Nickal, Retherford level of recruits???
Might be time for a change
- Thread starter CAhawki
- Start date
I'm not a big recruiting follower. Apart from Kem and Lee, are thsee guys REALLY on the Nickal, Retherford level of recruits???
He's talking about Strittmatter....or Borschel...or any club coach....but i would guess Strittmatter.
Oh yeah....the same guy that also developed wrestlers that's helping PSU win another national championship. 3 of them might very well be national champions tomorrow night.
Last edited:
borchell is not a head coach type yet and strittmatter has said he is happy. who is the real life choice. penn state is better. we are going to have to play catch up. changing coaches won't help. brands has to do different things yes. i think he will. except gilman, we are not doing worse than expected. the boys have wrestled pretty well and it is not over yet. just accept we have a challenge. if i had a challenge and had the chance to have a brands on my side, i feel good about the long run.
I mean look, it could just be a recruiting issue. You're at a distinct advantage if you have good nearby talent. If you look at the teams that have gotten better, they all have local talent (Cornell, OSU, PSU). Look at the teams that have gotten worse from where they were 10-15 years ago: Iowa, ISU, Okie State, Minny.
In the case of PSU, not only did they have the advantage of kicking off their run with the dual-team thing (yes I know Brands had that benefit), but they also are in PA, which is the best state bar none for recruiting (that in-state tuition helps) and they are close to NJ and NY, two great wrestling states.
Maybe the coaching won't make a lick of difference. Maybe it's just a recruiting issue at the moment. I mean, it was important enough to allow Cael to stab his alma mater in the back, so take that for what it's worth.
The recruits are coming. Now if in 3 years we are still saying we aren't competing and guys aren't getting better then come back and say we need a new coach.
Bull - #2 P4P
Warner - world bronze
Teasdale - undefeated 3 timer in PA still a year to go
Murin - no not on the level, but he's going to be good
"we gon be alright"
Teasdale, Marinelli, Lee, Warner and Kem are comparable. Top 10 overall. Young and Murin are a level or two lower.
Great post and it really speaks the concentration of highschool talent. Hopefully the addition of Lee and posse yields results. Im worried that it goes deeper than the on mat results and is more about the make up and day to day dealing of the program. Time will tell
With this years team it is very disappointing to not have at least 3 in the finals.
Tom is as good a coach as he's ever been, certainly as good as he was when he won 3 titles. He got worse as a recruiter and got burned for it. He failed to get guys who could make the finals as freshmen, like Retheford, Nolf, Joseph, Hall, and Nickal. He's getting guys like that now. So I'm sticking with him at least until those guys are on the mat. But he's got to keep his foot on the gas on recruiting, because Cael definitely is. And as a fan who expects Iowa to win titles, my patience with him has definitely worn thin over the past 7 seasons. I'm not disloyal to Brands; I'm loyal to the legacy of Iowa Wrestling, which is his job to uphold.
As for this year, we've still got a lot of points hanging out there for 3rd, and we need to suck it up and get them tomorrow.
As for this year, we've still got a lot of points hanging out there for 3rd, and we need to suck it up and get them tomorrow.
Valid point. Just curious, how many NCAA qualifiers in'17 hail from this state. I'm too lazy to look it up. Would like to see a state by state comparison.
Just a question, but what does that mean exactly? Did he put less of a priority on certain people when recruiting? Did he go for guys who fit a mold rather than best available? Flesh it out a bit for us.
If we don't do anything in '19-'22 then yes we need to consider someone else besides the Brands brothers. By doing anything, I mean winning a team title or multiple titles. With what we have in the freshman class and coming in the next two years we should be able to get a team title or even multiple. If we don't then look elsewhere, because we are Iowa and we win team titles. Not 2nd-4th place trophies. Just my opinion...Go Hawks!
I wouldn't call Kemdog or Murin the wrong kind of pegs. It's all about the talent.
I don't care if Dan Gable came back in his prime to coach Iowa again. He isn't going to win Championships with Brands' current talent. So, why expect that from the Brands brothers?
Everyone criticized Cael, when he said he was going to PSU to win championships. But, look how that turned out?
Now, instead of Cael competing at a disadvantage with the Brands brothers in Iowa, Cael has the home court advantage in PA. So, in spite of home court advantage, the Brands brothers did a phenomenal job recruiting Lee and Teasdale (along with Kemerer and Murin.) Brands has amped up his recruiting. He just needs a little more time for the talent to develop. But, it's happening.
Agreed, but if we don't get a title or multiple titles in '19-22 then a change needs to be made.
I think until '22 or so. That will show what the classes of '16-18 will have done.
I don't know. I'm way out here in New York City trying to write books and pay my mortgage; I don't have time to fly out there every weekend to fix his shit too. But seriously, I would love to know the answer to those questions. Meanwhile, I'm happy that changes have been made.
some of you so called fans make me sick. if iowa is truly your team you support them in good times and bad times. i realize this is a message board, but true fans don't knock their wrestlers or coaches if they are truly fans of that team. i was a hawkeye fan long before my son wrestled for the hawks, so i truly have been blessed. the playing field has been leveled, (sort of), penn state is the new iowa wrestling program. tip your cap to them. and try to kick their ass next year.
So if we keep waiting we're going to get better, lets see, PSU has Nickal, Nolf ,Hall and others for 2 or more years so these must be some real studs we're waiting on
I'm not going to even read through this thread. TnT have taken wrestlers outside anyone's p4p and made them contenders.
That being said the young wrestlers in Iowa don't even want to come here. The youngsters may be front runners and young and dumb, but I'm sitting in my house with ten young wrestlers and my kids are the only ones not on PSU and tOSU. What has happened to this team?
We have to start winning soon. No way in hell we ever finish in the top three without middle and upper weights. If there is a slush fund at PSU, figure it out and copy it. There can't be or others would be doing it.
I believe if Iowa had all p4p top ten wrestlers we would run score up even higher by development and developing for the next level.
Like Tom said in an earlier interview, it's not rocket science. Carl isn't out coaching him, but it's all about fun. If you ever wrestled at a high level, I wasn't thinking about f#%^onh fun. Wtf? The sport is fun and his sales pitch is getting old. Who the hell wrestled because it wasn't fun.
Get the best p4p and you win, but you better get those guys or figure out why they're not coming to the wrestling Mecca.
I may had done some drinkin'.
I guess my point is Brands better find somebody who can recruit and coach. DAVID TAYLOR or Metcalf on the coaching staff would be nice.
Or hire Carl
That being said the young wrestlers in Iowa don't even want to come here. The youngsters may be front runners and young and dumb, but I'm sitting in my house with ten young wrestlers and my kids are the only ones not on PSU and tOSU. What has happened to this team?
We have to start winning soon. No way in hell we ever finish in the top three without middle and upper weights. If there is a slush fund at PSU, figure it out and copy it. There can't be or others would be doing it.
I believe if Iowa had all p4p top ten wrestlers we would run score up even higher by development and developing for the next level.
Like Tom said in an earlier interview, it's not rocket science. Carl isn't out coaching him, but it's all about fun. If you ever wrestled at a high level, I wasn't thinking about f#%^onh fun. Wtf? The sport is fun and his sales pitch is getting old. Who the hell wrestled because it wasn't fun.
Get the best p4p and you win, but you better get those guys or figure out why they're not coming to the wrestling Mecca.
I may had done some drinkin'.
I guess my point is Brands better find somebody who can recruit and coach. DAVID TAYLOR or Metcalf on the coaching staff would be nice.
Or hire Carl
That was a ramble rant with no proofreading. Drunk, don't care.
Some of this still goes back to coaching as far as I'm concerned. How many matches do we lose by not doing little things that wrestlers have been taught from the time they started wrestling. One, not two, wrestle the whole match (7 minutes at this level)
This post should be pinned to the top of the board.
Strittmatter is out...likes what he does and makes come change doing it. Also, he coached Nolf and Cenzo but I don't think Zain was part of YG. Point taken...because Jody is great at what he does.
Winning is fun...ask Cutch how much fun he was having out there. Or Guilbon. About as much fun as Alex Meyer or our other guys that didn't AA. Hats off to them.
Winning is fun...ask Cutch how much fun he was having out there. Or Guilbon. About as much fun as Alex Meyer or our other guys that didn't AA. Hats off to them.
You'll be waiting a long time to hear a name that has been proven to be able to do better. Any change would definitely be a roll of the dice.
If Gary Barta was a disciple of HR, Bob Diaco would be football coach, Bruce Pearl would coach bball and now I guess Mark Perry, David Taylor and Jody Strittmatter would run the wrestling program.
I.would.think.the.recruiting.advantage.is.now.being.exploited.by.all.the.top.teams.NOW.
My.concern.revolves.around.what.the.next.advantage.will.be,and.whether.or.not.Brands.and.Company.can.exploit.it.as.Sanderson.has.done.with.recruiting.
BTW.Meyer.wrestled.his.ass.off.Great.effort.and.good.career.SMART.wrestler.
If you ask me, if I'm in Gary Barta's shoes, I have a decision to make...either offer Brands a multi-year extention (to get him through at least the early part of Lee/Warner/Teasdale's careers), or go in a different direction. Remember, unless they get a surge in tomorrow, they're probably going to finish out of the trophies for the second consecutive year, and with over 60% of the scoring and three-fifths of the All-Americans from this year graduating, next year isn't going to be any better. Not sure which option I'd go with, but I'll say this: Barta can't possibly fire Brands next summer if he wants to have any credibility with the Iowa wrestling community as an AD.
I'm not sure what to think anymore.. Some people blame the coaching and some say it is recruiting. I tend to lean a little more towards coaching being our problem... here's why... It's been well stated & documented that in all of Dan Gable's years he only had the top recruiting class once or twice. He brought in guys that were not always ranked the highest and turned them into National Champions... Tom is a good coach when it comes to X's and O's but the "development" is not like it was under Dan Gable.
Iowa used to be known for toughness and physicality... Not anymore.. For several years now I have watched our guys get out-muscled and it is hard to watch.
Iowa used to be known for toughness and physicality... Not anymore.. For several years now I have watched our guys get out-muscled and it is hard to watch.
Man this thread was nuts to read...no major change needed. Slight change with Metcalf gone...can we pay David Taylor lots of money to join the HWC and get him in the room?!
This tourney looks different if Turk, Marinelli and Stoll are on the mat. We're in the top 5 and the horses are in the stable. I, for one, are excited about the future. Many young guns (pun intended) are hungry to make Iowa great again.
25 Laux
33 Happel (hope he makes the drop like Gross choose to this year)
41 Turk
49 Sorenson
57 Kemerer
65 Marinelli
74 Young
84 Cash
97 Holloway
HWT Stoll (way after Midlands)
This tourney looks different if Turk, Marinelli and Stoll are on the mat. We're in the top 5 and the horses are in the stable. I, for one, are excited about the future. Many young guns (pun intended) are hungry to make Iowa great again.
25 Laux
33 Happel (hope he makes the drop like Gross choose to this year)
41 Turk
49 Sorenson
57 Kemerer
65 Marinelli
74 Young
84 Cash
97 Holloway
HWT Stoll (way after Midlands)
You can support the coaches and wrestlers but still question what is best for the program. Im here in St. Louis and have cheered on all wrestlers, felt sick for gilman, and brooks, and even got into it with some fans around us who were trashing all iowa and brands.
That being said i still think something needs to change. Recruiting has picked up which is great, but i would still like to see a coach with a different style brought in. Maybe on staff, maybe in the wrestling club. Someone like David Taylor, but it doesnt have to be that big of name either, maybe a guy like Taylor Walsh. Just someone in the middle to upper weights with a unique style.
That being said i still think something needs to change. Recruiting has picked up which is great, but i would still like to see a coach with a different style brought in. Maybe on staff, maybe in the wrestling club. Someone like David Taylor, but it doesnt have to be that big of name either, maybe a guy like Taylor Walsh. Just someone in the middle to upper weights with a unique style.
The wrestling landscape is so much different now than then. You can't do the Gable comparison. Even he would would not have the same success in today's landscape. The out work everyone secret has been out for a long time. Also the talent level in the state of Iowa and midwest was so much better then. I don't know what the classes were ranked then but Gable was not scoring most of his points with scrubs he turned into stars. The best kids now days are so athletic and advanced, ready to go with the best from day one. Sure there are occasional lower rated kids who end up being that level but you are not going to make a living and win trying to guess which ones pan out. Clark and Kem are the only guys in the current lineup with a comparable overall skill set (technique and athletic ability) as the guys PSU has in the finals and even with Clark it took a couple years to build into it. Gilman is not great on the mat or in scrambles. Sorensen is a grinder, tough to win a title as a grinder these days. Brooks is a brute but slower feet and also struggles in scrambles. The rest are just not that talented.
There's still an entire day left for placing matches, and people that haven't posted all year are on here calling for the coaching staff's head. Placing 4th-2nd is exactly what we were expecting. Get a grip, people. You're like the guy who sat next to me at the Rose Bowl, who wanted Kirk fired before the first quarter was over. Move along. Come back in two years so we can watch you put your own foot in your mouth. The wrestling game has changed, but we will be back on top by 2020. Or I'll very bitterly put MY foot in my mouth. A David Taylor type of addition would be stellar, none the less.
