Might be time for a change

[Mattski]

My worry is its more than recruiting, that some of it is style as well. Look at the finalists up and down the weights... Lots dominant mat wrestlers and lots of big scoring ability guys mainly with the skills to put guys on their backs. Lizak, Gross, Zain, Nolf, Hall, Nickal all getting where they are by aggression and by being able to score from all positions. Aside from catching a few guys in roll thrus, I didn't see much if any Hawks turn someone from top this tourney?

 

[Mattski]

There's still an entire day left for placing matches, and people that haven't posted all year are on here calling for the coaching staff's head. Placing 4th-2nd is exactly what we were expecting. Get a grip, people. You're like the guy who sat next to me at the Rose Bowl, who wanted Kirk fired before the first quarter was over. Move along. Come back in two years so we can watch you put your own foot in your mouth. The wrestling game has changed, but we will be back on top by 2020. Or I'll very bitterly put MY foot in my mouth. A David Taylor type of addition would be stellar, none the less.

People said the same thing about psus first run with Taylor, Ruth, Wright etc... just wait, just wait... now those guys are distant memories and they have 3-4 more young bonus point machines along with 3-4 other super solid guys. We're lacking the ultra top end and I don't think we have one on campus yet. Maybe Marinelli but he's likely not a Nolf, Zain, Nickal type of scorer. Kemdog is a stud but he's not on that level either. Excited about the future for sure but we better keep evolving and bringing in 2-3 studs per class if we want to get back in the discussion.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

My worry is its more than recruiting, that some of it is style as well. Look at the finalists up and down the weights... Lots dominant mat wrestlers and lots of big scoring ability guys mainly with the skills to put guys on their backs. Lizak, Gross, Zain, Nolf, Hall, Nickal all getting where they are by aggression and by being able to score from all positions. Aside from catching a few guys in roll thrus, I didn't see much if any Hawks turn someone from top this tourney?

Disagree. It's about talent. Many ultra talents are great riders, but it's all about talent in the end.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

People said the same thing about psus first run with Taylor, Ruth, Wright etc... just wait, just wait... now those guys are distant memories and they have 3-4 more young bonus point machines along with 3-4 other super solid guys. We're lacking the ultra top end and I don't think we have one on campus yet. Maybe Marinelli but he's likely not a Nolf, Zain, Nickal type of scorer. Kemdog is a stud but he's not on that level either. Excited about the future for sure but we better keep evolving and bringing in 2-3 studs per class if we want to get back in the discussion.

Iowa has some serious momentum in recruiting now. Big difference from a few years ago. And of course, the momentum needs to continue. That goes without saying.

 

[moosemonster]

With Gilman post meet speech after quarters he made a fool out of himself. Shake hands....might be standing next to next on podium.

Wait, let me guess - Bettendorf, and fifteen cans of Old Milwaukee?

 

[Grip220]

I honestly believe the Hawks just need a couple of minor changes .. The adjustments HAVE been made to bring in more top recruits. TnT Have these guys ready physically maybe they just a little help with an offensive mental edge. I believe we need more of Matt McDonough/Derek St John/Cory Clarke type wrestling and mental toughness. I really would like to see one of these guys take a major roll on the staff. They have the type of outlook that is needed less of the Tony Ramos/Thomas Giman style. A more aggressive approach to offense moves not just toughness ware them down style is needed. More skill is needed the guys like MK the Bull and the guys coming in have the skill set needed those guys like the ones previously mentioned could help the development !! Its just adjustments not a total rebuild I would not Replace TNT for anyone including Cael!! Just the right help Cael has Cunningham

 

[CAhawki]

some of you so called fans make me sick. if iowa is truly your team you support them in good times and bad times. i realize this is a message board, but true fans don't knock their wrestlers or coaches if they are truly fans of that team. i was a hawkeye fan long before my son wrestled for the hawks, so i truly have been blessed. the playing field has been leveled, (sort of), penn state is the new iowa wrestling program. tip your cap to them. and try to kick their ass next year.

No one is bagging the wrestlers in this thread. Simple convo regarding the current leadership and state of the program. Fans have a right to question the leadership when that leadership hasnt been meating their expectations.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

Disagree. It's about talent. Many ultra talents are great riders, but it's all about talent in the end.

Agreed. And it seems pretty obvious at that. Cael (and Ryan) is recruiting guys who compete at the highest level from day 1. That's simply recruiting. Why do you think he ditched ISU?

 

[Gobblin]

If you ask me, if I'm in Gary Barta's shoes, I have a decision to make...either offer Brands a multi-year extention (to get him through at least the early part of Lee/Warner/Teasdale's careers), or go in a different direction. Remember, unless they get a surge in tomorrow, they're probably going to finish out of the trophies for the second consecutive year, and with over 60% of the scoring and three-fifths of the All-Americans from this year graduating, next year isn't going to be any better. Not sure which option I'd go with, but I'll say this: Barta can't possibly fire Brands next summer if he wants to have any credibility with the Iowa wrestling community as an AD.

Brilliant analysis... For being a so called "professional" you sure are a hard on.

 

[pablow]

If you trade teams we are kicking butt too. It is mainly talent difference. We could use some mat wrestling improvement and better big move game.

Yes, Iowa with five Metcalfs . . . that's Penn State.

 

[hawknut]

I mean look, it could just be a recruiting issue. You're at a distinct advantage if you have good nearby talent. If you look at the teams that have gotten better, they all have local talent (Cornell, OSU, PSU). Look at the teams that have gotten worse from where they were 10-15 years ago: Iowa, ISU, Okie State, Minny.

In the case of PSU, not only did they have the advantage of kicking off their run with the dual-team thing (yes I know Brands had that benefit), but they also are in PA, which is the best state bar none for recruiting (that in-state tuition helps) and they are close to NJ and NY, two great wrestling states.

Maybe the coaching won't make a lick of difference. Maybe it's just a recruiting issue at the moment. I mean, it was important enough to allow Cael to stab his alma mater in the back, so take that for what it's worth.

Nickal is from Texas, Nevellis is from California, Hall is from Minnesota. Don't blame this on living in PA. It's being outrecruited. As far as actual coaching, I don't know if it's because we aren't as good, or if there are coaching issues. There have been some questionable decisions like Gilman going under Lizak (yes, I know he won) and Kem rolling with the Cornell guy, but that's always going to happen. If Brands hasn't changed coachingwise, he's not going to now. We really need to keep loading up on talent and need to project guys to weights better. That's how we are going to win. Guys are coming in darn good now.

 

[StParis]

the friday woes of March cont. Should be gracious that we have the talent to get us to friday, but its tough to stomach. Something is broken

Things will improve next year, especially after that punk at 125 is gone.

 

[Azchief32]

Things will improve next year, especially after that punk at 125 is gone.

GFY

 

[StParis]

GFY

Gilman has nowhere near the class of Clark or Brooks and says things that a punk would. You are the one who needs to go find himself.....

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

Nickal is from Texas, Nevellis is from California, Hall is from Minnesota. Don't blame this on living in PA. It's being outrecruited. As far as actual coaching, I don't know if it's because we aren't as good, or if there are coaching issues. There have been some questionable decisions like Gilman going under Lizak (yes, I know he won) and Kem rolling with the Cornell guy, but that's always going to happen. If Brands hasn't changed coachingwise, he's not going to now. We really need to keep loading up on talent and need to project guys to weights better. That's how we are going to win. Guys are coming in darn good now.

I didn't say EVERY guy was from PA. But a lot are and it makes a huge difference. Iowa IS being out-recruited that's my point. If you're gonna make a change at the top, the question, and the only question, is how that changes the recruiting landscape.

Again, Cael absolutely screwed his alma mater for a recruiting edge. They have been decimated and have never recovered. That says it all in my opinion.

 

[hawks_82]

I love March when all the idiots come out

People need to keep things in perspective. Why was Iowa the way they were when Dan Gable was here? Because he was Dan Gable. He was wrestling, people grew up watching him, wanting to wrestle like him, etc. high school freshman or sophomores right now probably know who he is, but have probably seen Cael wrestle, or at least videos of him. Listen to what Taylor said last night in his interview. He grew up watching Sanderson. Like it or not, that's what we are competing with.

As far as recruiting. Do any of you know the process? Do you know how much time and effort was spent on specific wrestlers? its not like Brands looks at Hall and Nickal and says no thanks. Iowa pushed hard for Hall, and just didn't get him. This stuff happens. They can still recruit, and if the talent we have coming doesn't make you think this you are clearly blind

Also, only Thomas Gilman has wrestled below seed this weekend. Keep things in perspective

 

[Justjake01]

Gilman has nowhere near the class of Clark or Brooks and says things that a punk would. You are the one who needs to go find himself.....

Uh oh, you have just pissed off the great Azqueef! Your account will pry be banned before the end of lunch.

 

[pablow]

My worry is its more than recruiting, that some of it is style as well. Look at the finalists up and down the weights... Lots dominant mat wrestlers and lots of big scoring ability guys mainly with the skills to put guys on their backs. Lizak, Gross, Zain, Nolf, Hall, Nickal all getting where they are by aggression and by being able to score from all positions. Aside from catching a few guys in roll thrus, I didn't see much if any Hawks turn someone from top this tourney?

I understand your point, but Tom and Terry have shown that they can work wonders given the right type of athlete - McD, Ramos, Dennis, St. John, Borschel, Marion, etc. Our 2010 team was one of the best mat wrestling teams I've ever seen.

Remember Gulibon dominated Clark coming out of high school.

Also remember without some events out of our coaches' control this years lineup could have been - Gilman, Clark, Gross, Sorensen, Kemerer, Gunther, Meyer, Brooks, Burak, Stoll/Bradley.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Is it a technique or recruiting issue that will stop scoreless first periods? The incessant complaining about stalling not being called? I find it difficult that people only back up against Iowa. How are others dealing with this? The officiating isn't going to change, Iowa needs to adapt to it.

 

[pumpdog20]

Gilman has nowhere near the class of Clark or Brooks and says things that a punk would. You are the one who needs to go find himself.....

No, he said go **** yourself.

 

[Justjake01]

No, he said go **** yourself.

Stick up for your girlfriend....classy

 

[pumpdog20]

Brands isn't coaching a specific style that the Caels and Toms aren't. He's just been recruiting a style that has been limited. He didn't change Clark or Kemerer did he? Sit back and enjoy the show after next year. Just have to get through next year. The recruits coming in, and the semi resurgence in Iowa HS wrestling is real. Enjoy the mini dynasty PSU. Black and Gold have figured it out.

 

[pumpdog20]

Stick up for your girlfriend....classy

LOL

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Dake? Or DT as asst

 

[Big Fall]

I'm just pissed that our coaches teach 5th year seniors to turtle up against inferior opponents. Then they coach other guys to get put on their backs in the first period. It's unreal. Find a coach that has 100% control of the results. That's what's needed.

 

[pablow]

I'm just pissed that our coaches teach 5th year seniors to turtle up against inferior opponents. Then they coach other guys to get put on their backs in the first period. It's unreal. Find a coach that has 100% control of the results. That's what's needed.

You forgot to mention Morningstar instructing Brooks to lock up a throw Nickal first chance you get.

 

[hawknut]

I understand your point, but Tom and Terry have shown that they can work wonders given the right type of athlete - McD, Ramos, Dennis, St. John, Borschel, Marion, etc. Our 2010 team was one of the best mat wrestling teams I've ever seen.

Remember Gulibon dominated Clark coming out of high school.

Also remember without some events out of our coaches' control this years lineup could have been - Gilman, Clark, Gross, Sorensen, Kemerer, Gunther, Meyer, Brooks, Burak, Stoll/Bradley.

Whoa, Whoa. I'll give you Gross, but including Burak? The "ifs" is all I have been hearing this year. Sadly, that lineup doesn't win it for us this year either. Unless you say....if Kem doesn't lose, if Gilman doesn't lose, if Sorensen doesn't lose, if Gross is as good at 141, if Stoll can AA......

 

[jammenz]

Is MitchL in hiding?

 

[pablow]

Whoa, Whoa. I'll give you Gross, but including Burak? The "ifs" is all I have been hearing this year. Sadly, that lineup doesn't win it for us this year either. Unless you say....if Kem doesn't lose, if Gilman doesn't lose, if Sorensen doesn't lose, if Gross is as good at 141, if Stoll can AA......

Where did I say or imply they'd win. I said that losing Gross, Stoll, Bradley, and no redshirt for Burak (he obviously didn't want to redshirt) is no refection on our coaches. You just distorting my post.

And I don't think it's much of an "if" to assume Gross would outperform Carton.

 

[butchinmi]

I completely agree that a different pedigree of guy will help for sure. There is definitely a difference in coaching "style" at different schools. What I don't know is do they just recruit that type of guy? Cornell for example. No surprise they all wrestle similar style of "funk, ride and turn." PSU, I saw many inside trips, heck, Cenzo won his last two matches that way. When we are down one in short time it seems like we go to the sweep single and struggle to finish. Again, is that recruit talent or coaching style? I don't know. Nelson Brands had 454 takedowns in the regular season. Coaching or personality? Lastly, I get the "stalling" frustration but most PSU guys have zero issue creating offense no matter stalling or not. Hasn't seemed to affect Kem either. So, coaching or talent? Im excited as heck about our incoming recruits. If we get through 5 years of Kem, Bull, Gavin, Warner, Murin, Nelson, Young, Lee and have similar approach/results, it's going to get gloomy for a long-time because even the most level headed fan will be scratching there head then.

 

[Exo]

Dake? Or DT as asst

Tim Tebow could be a good addition if his baseball career doesn't pan out.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Brilliant analysis... For being a so called "professional" you sure are a hard on.

Pardon my confusion for what you're trying to say, the internet doesn't convey sarcasm very well...but what?

 

[Nashville Lion]

Brands isn't coaching a specific style that the Caels and Toms aren't. He's just been recruiting a style that has been limited. He didn't change Clark or Kemerer did he? Sit back and enjoy the show after next year. Just have to get through next year. The recruits coming in, and the semi resurgence in Iowa HS wrestling is real. Enjoy the mini dynasty PSU. Black and Gold have figured it out.

Mini dynasty??? What does that mean? PSU may not win it every year but we are not going away as title contender.

 

[Stilltryingtobeafan]

Recruiting, having no fun, poor match strategies or lack of, injuries. All comes down to 1 thing COACHING. Prepare yourselves for the same results for the next 3 years at least.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

BTW, mea culpa regarding what I said earlier...Iowa should, at this point, hold on to finish fourth.

 

[frydaze]

People said the same thing about psus first run with Taylor, Ruth, Wright etc... just wait, just wait... now those guys are distant memories and they have 3-4 more young bonus point machines along with 3-4 other super solid guys. We're lacking the ultra top end and I don't think we have one on campus yet. Maybe Marinelli but he's likely not a Nolf, Zain, Nickal type of scorer. Kemdog is a stud but he's not on that level either. Excited about the future for sure but we better keep evolving and bringing in 2-3 studs per class if we want to get back in the discussion.

Very good and very fair analysis; even though some here will want to think you're being too critical. I don't think you are.

I agree with you on a couple points in particular:

--The fall off of PSU didn't happen as some thought, and it's not going to as long as Cael is there

--Brands needs to CONSISTENTLY land 2 or 3 top level wrestling studs EVERY year if we want to compete for and win titles again. We seem to be doing that very recently again, but it has to stay that way.

 

[madmax1191]

I'm posting from Scott trade. Where are you clowns? Haven't seen any of you "fans" post until NCAAs

The clowns are in Ames. Btw
I find it amusing that the board bullies get so offended buy others takes. That's what the board is for. IF ANYTHING you pinheads are on here waaaaaay too much. Get off your soap boxes and let someone else have an opinion. We all know how you guys feel. We get it. Now JSTFU for once. You, chief etc. and the completely insecure gobblin need to check yourselves. Honestly nobody really cares outside of your little circle of candy asses at this point because your opinions are too biased in the optimistic sense and your too rigid and linear in your perceptions. Try to be realistic for a change gentlemen.
The program has issues to be sure. I don't want to see TNT go and I realize a major problem has been addressed which is recruiting. We need to find 2 new assistants as well. Berhow and M* need to move on. Management of the classes and depth is terrible currently. Cmon we've got 5-6 149 pounders but nobody at 97. Same w/ 65 vs 84.
I am very excited about all the young guns coming in! But when it comes to tourney time and style we've got issues!! If you don't agree I'm ok w/ it.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

As I posted what I posted, Iowa's been absolutely money in this session...7-0 with Brooks' match still to go. Can't catch Oklahoma State for third without bonus though.

Edit: No sooner do I post this, than Brooks gets stuck.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I completely agree that a different pedigree of guy will help for sure. There is definitely a difference in coaching "style" at different schools. What I don't know is do they just recruit that type of guy? Cornell for example. No surprise they all wrestle similar style of "funk, ride and turn." PSU, I saw many inside trips, heck, Cenzo won his last two matches that way. When we are down one in short time it seems like we go to the sweep single and struggle to finish. Again, is that recruit talent or coaching style? I don't know. Nelson Brands had 454 takedowns in the regular season. Coaching or personality? Lastly, I get the "stalling" frustration but most PSU guys have zero issue creating offense no matter stalling or not. Hasn't seemed to affect Kem either. So, coaching or talent? Im excited as heck about our incoming recruits. If we get through 5 years of Kem, Bull, Gavin, Warner, Murin, Nelson, Young, Lee and have similar approach/results, it's going to get gloomy for a long-time because even the most level headed fan will be scratching there head then.

I'd say the ratio of the importance of talent vs. coaching style in the current state of college wrestling is about 95% talent and about 5% coaching style.

The formula, IMO, is to bring in the horses, help them hone their strengths and strengthen their weaknesses, and keep them motivated and in shape. And dodgeball. Lots and lots of dodgeball.

 

[AFHawk86]

I'd say the ratio of the importance of talent vs. coaching style in the current state of college wrestling is about 95% talent and about 5% coaching style.

The formula, IMO, is to bring in the horses, help them hone their strengths and strengthen their weaknesses, and keep them motivated and in shape. And dodgeball. Lots and lots of dodgeball.

Wrong...83%!