MN Doctors: Remove football from public schools
- Thread starter OnceAhawk
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I've only "made" daughters so I haven't experienced this quandry.
But you just described my brother's situation. Lived for football in high school. Has two sons who dominated PeeWee leagues in southern Wisconsin. When the older son was old enough for varsity football, he had long discussions with my sister-in-law about what to do. They ultimately, after weighing the pros and cons, elected to let him play varsity football. Sophomore year, no problems. This year, had to sit out a few games after suffering a concussion. The kid has a phenomenal head (math genius) on his shoulders and has been approached about attending MSOE on a scholarship. I can tell you that, as much as that family loves football, it keeps my brother up at night wondering if they are making the right decision to let him play.
No thanks.
I'll simply let you go back to feeling "victimized" by liberal propaganda while simultaneously proclaiming the demise of this country because of all the people claiming to be "victims."
Thank you for speaking for all veterans. One question. Are you a veteran? I am. Volunteered for service and everything. Did you? I would be willing to bet you are not. People that spew the type of nonsense you just did usually haven't stepped up themselves. Perhaps you should keep your thoughts to yourself on military service.
Funny how you go on and on about the evil of liberal taxpayer agendas and yet here we have a sport that costs taxpayers an awful lot and right this minute is creating all kinds of risk to kids with the consequential liability to the taxpayers. Hard to understand your tax and spend philosophy as such a hard core conservative. How much has your school district or one near you spent on upgrading to field turf? On equipment and coaches salaries? On travel? I think we can agree there is value in sport and taxpayers should provide some expenditure for that but I find it funny that you protest liberals so strongly while clinging to tax funded games. That is after all what it is...a tax funded game for children. Don't leave the children part of it though because wouldn't it be interesting that for your amusement and your definition of toughness we were actually crippling these children for life? Because that is what these doctors are talking about tough guy.
I love football. I have very mixed feelings on this topic. I love it, but when I see guys like Dorsett and Earl Campbell now its just sad and hard to watch. It won't be any sort of liberal movement that does away with it in HS, it will be risk averse superintendents and insurance companies.
As for soccer. Heading is not allowed in AYSO youth leagues. I am not sure if they change that in high school or not. The thing about heading is that its fine if you hit it right, but it can be really bad if you do it wrong.
As for soccer. Heading is not allowed in AYSO youth leagues. I am not sure if they change that in high school or not. The thing about heading is that its fine if you hit it right, but it can be really bad if you do it wrong.
The point is we are all given a choice. I don't buy the idea that the information isn't out there. Just like driving a car, just like doing drugs or alcohol people know the risks or they just don't care. Ask your last question about driving and drugs. I use those as examples because all the information I have received is that those things are more dangerous to your health then the game of football.
I agree with you. However instead of something being taken away from your son and others sons you are doing something called good parenting and choosing as a family if football should be allowed or at what age it should be allowed in your home. There is a lot more education about football and the long term injuries of football let good parenting happen. To many people in society want to control what an entire population does now. These people think they know what is best for everyone and they call it adapting to a change that is evolving society. Are we really evolving though if a few have to control more and more for the many based on their opinions? Or if one sides views are in their minds more progressive then the people on the other sides does change have to happen. In an extreme way that kind of sounds like fascist Germany to me.
The market would be private leagues, not public schools. Public schools have a fiduciary responsibility to not expose their students to injuries and not expose their taxpayers to unnecessary lawsuits. There is no compelling need for a public school -- whose purpose is to educate -- to provide sports of any kind; let alone a sport that could lead to injuries and lawsuits.
I love sports as much as the next guy. But the time will come, rightfully, when high school's will no longer support football teams. Yes, it will be a change. But the world survived until about a hundred years ago with high school football.
You're argument would make sense is lawmakers proposed banning kids from playing football. That is not even close to what is happening. Some schools are moving towards not sponsoring a school football team. Kids are free to play football anywhere they want; the local taxpayers are simply not going to fund it.
The doctors are talking about it under the guise of what's best for people's health. How's my argument not make sense. Again are the doctors talking about banning everything else that is bad for your health? Your talking about taxes. I didn't read anything in that article about taxes.
Yes...veteran...not speaking for all veterans...didn't say I was...thanks for asking and thanks for your service.
I have mixed feelings on football...glad my kids didn't participate in it, but I would have supported them if that was their choice. All played soccer...etc. No football at the high school where two attended.
Son is a mechanical engineer...single...quit his job at age 28, joined the Army...now a Green Beret...back from a recent deployment...proud of him...concern about his decision...but his is a dangerous line of work and most often we don't hear much from him or know where he is...that said, he is living his dream, and we are proud of him. We entrust his safety and future to the Lord...,and leave it at that. We need good people protecting us from the evil that is a part of the world...glad he is willing to sacrifice to do his line of work for us all...he is smart, quite small in stature, independent, humble, multiple foreign language speaker, kind, but very gritty... Might make a good undersized safety in the football world...
I have mixed feelings on football...glad my kids didn't participate in it, but I would have supported them if that was their choice. All played soccer...etc. No football at the high school where two attended.
Son is a mechanical engineer...single...quit his job at age 28, joined the Army...now a Green Beret...back from a recent deployment...proud of him...concern about his decision...but his is a dangerous line of work and most often we don't hear much from him or know where he is...that said, he is living his dream, and we are proud of him. We entrust his safety and future to the Lord...,and leave it at that. We need good people protecting us from the evil that is a part of the world...glad he is willing to sacrifice to do his line of work for us all...he is smart, quite small in stature, independent, humble, multiple foreign language speaker, kind, but very gritty... Might make a good undersized safety in the football world...
Oh boy when you want an subject matter based on facts Hollywood is who you should trust. Not saying this movie will be BS but Hollywood is a perfect example of a bunch of arrogant elitists twisting facts to push an agenda on the masses.
You don't need Hollywood...just look at Tony Dorsett....or sadly what happened to our own Tyler Sash
You eat the GMO food if you want, I do not want any of it. GMO food is not healthy! Sorry if this offends any Iowa soy bean or corn farmers.
Yeah, Revkev, wish I could be a big of a man as Dick Cheney. He had 5 deferments during the Viet Nam war and was brave enough to send other's sons and daughters to war. I'm a veteran. I'm at the Iowa City V.A. Hospital once a month. I've seen other veterans in there with no eyesight or no legs thanks to a stupid war that didn't have a draft. Is that the value of sacrifice you are talking about? Isn't this thread suppose to be about football?, not your right wing, conservative, republican agenda. Thank you!
I didn't think I would have to walk anybody through this, but here it goes. They are not talking about banning football. They're talking about removing it from public schools, which are funded by taxes.
Their recommendations did not apply to private schools or any other organization.
Again, they're not talking about banning football. Hopefully that's more clear.
Not a Cheney fan...not a Republican...sorry you are so angry about the country and the military...not a perfect organization..
Yah, it is better to let millions die of starvation rather than improving seeds and production.
Best to have local food plots for all...who can then sell produce to Whole Foods...so everyone can feel good...while millions starve...
Wait...I think I heard this idea on Public Radio already...if they outlaw football...perhaps they could pull the plug on that source of propaganda also...
These are probably the same M.Ds who ask whether their patients have a rifle in the house during the annual physical. Just stop...
Yah, it is better to let millions die of starvation rather than improving seeds and production.
Best to have local food plots for all...who can then sell produce to Whole Foods...so everyone can feel good...while millions starve...
Wait...I think I heard this idea on Public Radio already...if they outlaw football...perhaps they could pull the plug on that source of propaganda also...
These are probably the same M.Ds who ask whether their patients have a rifle in the house during the annual physical. Just stop...
"Dr. Steven Miles said an outright ban on youth football would be unrealistic. But he is among the first to recommend removing football from schools"
They are talking about banning but they don't think it's realistic. Either way it's like most political issues on here it just turns into silly word play. Remove, ban you see this massive difference when there really isn't one. Whether they want to ban it or remove it, it's the same argument to me. But you don't see it that way and that's ok. Whether it's removed or banned your still not allowing somebody the choice to play football.
It's an issue of ethics. You don't know any better as a fifth grader and can't really make informed decisions about your health. Your parents could be subjecting you to harm that you decide later in life was a bad idea. It's different if you're playing college ball.
Yes, IC is a hot bed of liberalism because a large majority of the population are living on the taxpayer's dime. Professors are teaching one class a semester while TA's are used for most of the core courses and all they give a damn about is getting that PHD. and tenure. This allows them to join the liberal elites who make the big bucks and tell us how unfair the common scum are being treated.
The VA and Univ. hospital system jumps right in there.
Those professors are worthless! The research they complete, the knowledge base they pass on and the knowledge base they create is worthless! They are just a bunch of no talent leeches!!
These people are paid to think for a living. These people who get paid to think and teach for a living, hold view points that contradict my personal view!! That makes them all stupid and worthless!!
Because they are stupid and worthless, I should be teaching the classes at Iowa!! I can pass my life experience of focusing only on the 6 inches right in front of my face on to the youth of Iowa to create a Utopia!!
It's not wordplay. It's the difference between comprehending the subject and not.
Consider beer. Schools cannot host beer parties after school, but beer has not been banned in this country.
That is a big difference.
Likely football will go the direction that soccer and some other sports are headed, where private organizations operate football leagues with no connection to schools.
Because football will not have been banned. Taxpayers won't be footing the bill, but your kids can still play organized football.
Because football will not have been banned.
That is why I stay out of the middle of the grocery store because it is full of GMO processed foods!!! In addition, to get back to topic it is only a matter of time before someone finds an ambulance chasing lawyer and files a lawsuit against a public school system because of a brain injury suffered while playing football for their high school.
Lol
Speaking of generalizations, the article never suggests 'outlawing' football. Slow down, maybe take a breath. Not every issue calls for pulling out the bitter diatribe card.
Speaking of generalizations, the article never suggests 'outlawing' football. Slow down, maybe take a breath. Not every issue calls for pulling out the bitter diatribe card.
Thank you, revkev, for reminding me why I decided to stop visiting the Off-topic board. I'm now more patient and have less of a temper than I did in my youth, but I fear that exposure to illogical, hyperbolic, and factually-challenged rants like yours in this thread would probably set me back a decade.
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It's needed because not everyone's a pussy.
Shocking that The University of Moscow (err I mean Minnesota) would report such a thing........................and in The Red Star Tribune of all places! LOL!
You're talking about a school that instituted a ban on publicly announcing the description of crime suspects, because too often it was a description of a black male, and Lord knows we can't have that.........................so best to not give descriptions at all, ya know, so someone's feelings don't get hurt. This is how these college campus jag-offs are in 2015. You can't make this shit up.
I suppose these idiot Doctors in Dink-Town picked Football instead of Hockey for fear someone would stalk them and stab them with a jagged hockey stick..................
Well I hope we all don't have to quit driving vehicles because there are thousands of deaths caused by bad drivers.
"Two University of Minnesota doctors are recommending that the nation’s schools eliminate football, reducing the pressure on children to engage in a sport riddled with concussions."
And this stops concussions how? It just means the rise of the non-school sanctioned clubs. Their speculation that eliminating it in schools will eliminate the peer pressure for the big kid to play is just that, speculation. They are supposed to be scientists but they have conclusions based on what? Their opinion? Don't freak out, I am not arguing with the concern to reduce concussions... just the non-scientific conclusion drawn based on their speculation on peer pressure.
And this stops concussions how? It just means the rise of the non-school sanctioned clubs. Their speculation that eliminating it in schools will eliminate the peer pressure for the big kid to play is just that, speculation. They are supposed to be scientists but they have conclusions based on what? Their opinion? Don't freak out, I am not arguing with the concern to reduce concussions... just the non-scientific conclusion drawn based on their speculation on peer pressure.
I wonder how dangerous drivers' training is...sponsored by schools and funded by tax dollars...I was know I was afraid riding in the back seat while some of my peers got behind the wheel for the first time...with the instructor hitting the brakes pretty hard and grabbing the wheel. Perhaps if everyone walked...we would be more healthy and the air would be cleaner. We wouldn't need to worry about getting to work...because there wouldn't be many jobs.
You completely miss the point of it. It boils down to a singular point: $$$. Insurance and liability are making the game much more expensive due to the research we now have on concussions. You obviously haven't read much of the article or other posts to think this is a way to reduce concussions. It really has nothing to do with concussions outside the liability a school could incur due to an injury.
While I'm at it, this whole thread is just plain ridiculous. Tying a doctor's report to politics is asinine. It speaks more about the society we are as a whole in sue-happy country, whether you're liberal, conservative, tea, socialist, or moderate. No one party is exempt from the filing of frivolous lawsuits so stop with the conservative v liberal ideology spew because nobody is more right than the other.
For the record, the article never mentions insurance or liability. The article does mention hockey: "Concussion rates are also high in hockey, but the U doctors argued that football merits action because it has so many more players." So nobody will sue because it doesn't have the participation rate that football does?
FWIW: Recent research on brain injury has indicated that an actual 'concussion' is not necessary for progressive (long-term damaging) changes in the brain to occur, in response to repeated sub-concussive blows to the head, much like that which repeatedly happens to players in a football game.
This occurs over several years (compounds), and does lead to permanent changes in brain structure, related to dementia, depression, etc.
Perhaps instead of 'outlawing' or banning football, we simply need better monitoring and adjusted play techniques.
Put a tiny Wifi accelerometer in each helmet; if the helmet shows a blow above a baseline, the player is removed from the game or practice and is sidelined for a day or a week or whatever.
Same thing during a game; if a player hits another player and either helmet 'goes off' indicating a above-limit head acceleration, BOTH are eliminated from play for the same time frame.
Set an acceleration limit based on best available evidence today. You can base it on a single hit, or a cumulative trigger during a game. Adjust that limit downward as necessary over time.
Make fairly punitive rules in a game that if a player makes an 'intentional' effort to knock out a star by targeting their helmet, that team plays one player short for the rest of the game or half, carrying over to the next game (you will NOT see dirty play and targeting if the penalty means playing 10 on 11 for a game).
You do not see many 'head shots' in games like Rubgy, because there is no head protection, so people wrap and tackle; they learn to not lead with their heads.
Add in available technology to make the game safer, and enforce rules that actually put out severe penalties for helmet hits, regardless if it is pads or helmet-helmet. Once players learn what level of hit will force them from the game, they'll adjust their technique.
This occurs over several years (compounds), and does lead to permanent changes in brain structure, related to dementia, depression, etc.
Perhaps instead of 'outlawing' or banning football, we simply need better monitoring and adjusted play techniques.
Put a tiny Wifi accelerometer in each helmet; if the helmet shows a blow above a baseline, the player is removed from the game or practice and is sidelined for a day or a week or whatever.
Same thing during a game; if a player hits another player and either helmet 'goes off' indicating a above-limit head acceleration, BOTH are eliminated from play for the same time frame.
Set an acceleration limit based on best available evidence today. You can base it on a single hit, or a cumulative trigger during a game. Adjust that limit downward as necessary over time.
Make fairly punitive rules in a game that if a player makes an 'intentional' effort to knock out a star by targeting their helmet, that team plays one player short for the rest of the game or half, carrying over to the next game (you will NOT see dirty play and targeting if the penalty means playing 10 on 11 for a game).
You do not see many 'head shots' in games like Rubgy, because there is no head protection, so people wrap and tackle; they learn to not lead with their heads.
Add in available technology to make the game safer, and enforce rules that actually put out severe penalties for helmet hits, regardless if it is pads or helmet-helmet. Once players learn what level of hit will force them from the game, they'll adjust their technique.
