NCAA - This Isn't How It Should Work

SchwartzUndGold

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Nov 20, 2019
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When a team earns a high seed it should gain some advantages beyond playing a lower seed. When I looked at the events leading up to the pairing announcements there is a real disadvantage for teams that play on the last Sunday before the pairing announcement. I'm going to use Iowa to explain. Before the Big Ten Tournament it had risen to a 5 seed in bracket speculation and with a top 15 net ranking. Iowa ended with a close lost at Illinois on the 6th of March. Iowa then played games on the 10th, 11th, 12th, and 13th. That is 5 games in 7 days and 4 of the 5 games were against teams making the NCAA tournament field. Iowa's reward was nil. It didn't get a better seed for winning the Big Ten tourney and then having to play on Thursday, the 17th, in a different time zone in a bracket of teams from the eastern time zone and a closer distance.

I'm not trying to make excuses but where and when you play are big factors in preparation for a game. I just feel the NCAA negated Iowa's seed by making them play on Thursday and in a hostile environment.
 

HawknBadgerLand

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Jul 13, 2017
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I completely agree. I said this in another thread, but I would love to see the big ten go back to 18 games. They should wrap up the conference tournament the Sunday before selection Sunday.

Then teams can play 2 non conference games to end the season. Why not? The committee puts no emphasis on the back half of the schedule anymore. You'd still have the same resume as any other year, just push 2 of those early season "easy" games back.

It would give the big ten teams time to rest up some guys, heal, and it would give the coaches a little breather to prep for March Madness.

It would also allow the tournament champs and conference regular season champs a week to enjoy it and actually benefit from it. Plus, it would give the committee time to account for the tournament performance. And as a ratings boost for the conference, it would be the first "March madness" event.

What's the problem with this scenario? Too sexy?
 

jberesford

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When a team earns a high seed it should gain some advantages beyond playing a lower seed. When I looked at the events leading up to the pairing announcements there is a real disadvantage for teams that play on the last Sunday before the pairing announcement. I'm going to use Iowa to explain. Before the Big Ten Tournament it had risen to a 5 seed in bracket speculation and with a top 15 net ranking. Iowa ended with a close lost at Illinois on the 6th of March. Iowa then played games on the 10th, 11th, 12th, and 13th. That is 5 games in 7 days and 4 of the 5 games were against teams making the NCAA tournament field. Iowa's reward was nil. It didn't get a better seed for winning the Big Ten tourney and then having to play on Thursday, the 17th, in a different time zone in a bracket of teams from the eastern time zone and a closer distance.

I'm not trying to make excuses but where and when you play are big factors in preparation for a game. I just feel the NCAA negated Iowa's seed by making them play on Thursday and in a hostile environment.
I still say Big Ten championship game time massively worked against them. I'm certain the committee had everything predetermined based on a Purdue win and after Iowa pulled it off they just went ahead with it anyways since it was so close to the deadline. And yes, win or lose in the Big Ten tourney it was pretty ridiculous being literally one of the last two teams in the country to play a game before the tournament and then getting an early Thursday game.
 

Tfxchawk

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Maybe the NCAA along with the help of pollard is sending a message to the Big Ten to knock it off with the Sunday final. It really is pretty stupid we insist on keeping it there.
 

HawkHoops80

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When a team earns a high seed it should gain some advantages beyond playing a lower seed. When I looked at the events leading up to the pairing announcements there is a real disadvantage for teams that play on the last Sunday before the pairing announcement. I'm going to use Iowa to explain. Before the Big Ten Tournament it had risen to a 5 seed in bracket speculation and with a top 15 net ranking. Iowa ended with a close lost at Illinois on the 6th of March. Iowa then played games on the 10th, 11th, 12th, and 13th. That is 5 games in 7 days and 4 of the 5 games were against teams making the NCAA tournament field. Iowa's reward was nil. It didn't get a better seed for winning the Big Ten tourney and then having to play on Thursday, the 17th, in a different time zone in a bracket of teams from the eastern time zone and a closer distance.

I'm not trying to make excuses but where and when you play are big factors in preparation for a game. I just feel the NCAA negated Iowa's seed by making them play on Thursday and in a hostile environment.
I'm not going to comment on whether or not Iowa should have been a 4 seed, honestly comparing resumes is splitting hairs most of the time and I don't think UCLA, Illinois, Arkansas or Providence were egregious enough for me to get all up in arms about things.

What common fans seem to not understand is how transparent the site selection (and therefore dates) actually is. The NCAA literally just ranks the teams 1-16 and goes down the list in order assigning teams to their first choice, Gonzaga-Portland, Arizona-San Deigo, etc. Once a site is picked twice it's no longer an option. This means teams 13-16 get the last picks. Some of them may get lucky (Providence-Buff) or a team could need to travel longer than anticipated (Arkansas-Buffalo). These sites already are pre-determined well in advance whether they are Thu/Sat or Fri/Sun because ticket sales go up for them usually at the start of the regular season.

After teams 1-16 are bracketed and put into place the committee also ranks teams 17-68 and then a computer algorithm places teams into the bracket. They use a computer because honestly it's a ton of rules to keep track of for each team (can't be paired with someone you played twice until sweet 16, can't play someone you played in non-conference first round, etc.).

This year Iowa couldn't be bracketed with 4 seed Illinois since we already played them twice. That left the options as Buffalo with Arkansas or Providence or in Portland with UCLA--both sites were Thurs/Sat sites. Interestingly enough, if Iowa was a 6 seed I think they likely end up in Indianapolis with Tennessee and Iowa likely gets VA Tech as an 11 since they can't play ISU, Michigan or Rutgers/ND since those are all opponents we've played. I couldn't have imagined how whiney we all would have (rightfully) been leading up to the first round game if that would have been our draw.

Anyways, this is my long winded way of saying the only complaint us fans can have towards the committee is where Iowa was seeded--the committee is very transparent in their placement process and is easy to understand once you know the rules. Seeds 5-16 are bracketed by a computer once the committee puts them in so that teams are bracketed in a way that doesn't break the rules and is "fair."
 
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HawknBadgerLand

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Jul 13, 2017
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I'm not going to comment on whether or not Iowa should have been a 4 seed, honestly comparing resumes is splitting hairs most of the time and I don't think UCLA, Illinois, Arkansas or Providence were egregious enough for me to get all up in arms about things.

What common fans seem to not understand is how transparent the site selection (and therefore dates) actually is. The NCAA literally just ranks the teams 1-16 and goes down the list in order assigning teams to their first choice, Gonzaga-Portland, Arizona-San Deigo, etc. Once a site is picked twice it's no longer an option. This means teams 13-16 get the last picks. Some of them may get lucky (Providence-Buff) or a team could need to travel longer than anticipated (Arkansas-Buffalo). These sites already are pre-determined well in advance whether they are Thu/Sat or Fri/Sun because ticket sales go up for them usually at the start of the regular season.

After teams 1-16 are bracketed and put into place the committee also ranks teams 17-68 and then a computer algorithm places teams into the bracket. They use a computer because honestly it's a ton of rules to keep track of for each team (can't be paired with someone you played twice until sweet 16, can't play someone you played in non-conference first round, etc.).

This year Iowa couldn't be bracketed with 4 seed Illinois since we already played them twice. That left the options as Buffalo with Arkansas or Providence or in Portland with UCLA--both sites were Thurs/Sat sites. Interestingly enough, if Iowa was a 6 seed I think they likely end up in Indianapolis with Tennessee and Iowa likely gets VA Tech as an 11 since they can't play ISU, Michigan or Rutgers/ND since those are all opponents we've played. I couldn't have imagined how whiney we all would have (rightfully) been leading up to the first round game if that would have been our draw.

Anyways, this is my long winded way of saying the only complaint us fans can have towards the committee is where Iowa was seeded--the committee is very transparent in their placement process and is easy to understand once you know the rules. Seeds 5-16 are bracketed by a computer once the committee puts them in so that teams are bracketed in a way that doesn't break the rules and is "fair."
Good points. Makes sense. I honestly don't have a problem where we were seeded for the most part. I thought we actually had a pretty good draw despite the terrible loss. I just think the conference should do what the SEC does in football and give the teams a breather the week between the big ten tourney and the tournament. Eventually somebody will figure it out. The big ten season is a grind.
 

HawknBadgerLand

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Jul 13, 2017
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Richmond played 4 games in a row on the same dates and then on Thursday as well. Shut it.
True. We're looking for excuses. I suppose had Iowa played well there wouldn't be so much debate about this but man, after Iowa's final 14 games and how well they played, I just can't explain the absolute terrible performance. Richmond did play 4 in 4, but they didn't play very well either. Teams that play Iowa's style (good shooting, actual basketball) probably need fresher legs than a team that plays like Richmond.
 

blubberhawk

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Sep 15, 2009
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I completely agree. I said this in another thread, but I would love to see the big ten go back to 18 games. They should wrap up the conference tournament the Sunday before selection Sunday.

Then teams can play 2 non conference games to end the season. Why not? The committee puts no emphasis on the back half of the schedule anymore. You'd still have the same resume as any other year, just push 2 of those early season "easy" games back.

It would give the big ten teams time to rest up some guys, heal, and it would give the coaches a little breather to prep for March Madness.

It would also allow the tournament champs and conference regular season champs a week to enjoy it and actually benefit from it. Plus, it would give the committee time to account for the tournament performance. And as a ratings boost for the conference, it would be the first "March madness" event.

What's the problem with this scenario? Too sexy?
The committee does not put so much emphasis on the back half of the schedule. If they did, ISU would have been in the NIT. Their entire selection was predicated by their games in November and December.
 
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blubberhawk

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Sep 15, 2009
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I'm not going to comment on whether or not Iowa should have been a 4 seed, honestly comparing resumes is splitting hairs most of the time and I don't think UCLA, Illinois, Arkansas or Providence were egregious enough for me to get all up in arms about things.

What common fans seem to not understand is how transparent the site selection (and therefore dates) actually is. The NCAA literally just ranks the teams 1-16 and goes down the list in order assigning teams to their first choice, Gonzaga-Portland, Arizona-San Deigo, etc. Once a site is picked twice it's no longer an option. This means teams 13-16 get the last picks. Some of them may get lucky (Providence-Buff) or a team could need to travel longer than anticipated (Arkansas-Buffalo). These sites already are pre-determined well in advance whether they are Thu/Sat or Fri/Sun because ticket sales go up for them usually at the start of the regular season.

After teams 1-16 are bracketed and put into place the committee also ranks teams 17-68 and then a computer algorithm places teams into the bracket. They use a computer because honestly it's a ton of rules to keep track of for each team (can't be paired with someone you played twice until sweet 16, can't play someone you played in non-conference first round, etc.).

This year Iowa couldn't be bracketed with 4 seed Illinois since we already played them twice. That left the options as Buffalo with Arkansas or Providence or in Portland with UCLA--both sites were Thurs/Sat sites. Interestingly enough, if Iowa was a 6 seed I think they likely end up in Indianapolis with Tennessee and Iowa likely gets VA Tech as an 11 since they can't play ISU, Michigan or Rutgers/ND since those are all opponents we've played. I couldn't have imagined how whiney we all would have (rightfully) been leading up to the first round game if that would have been our draw.

Anyways, this is my long winded way of saying the only complaint us fans can have towards the committee is where Iowa was seeded--the committee is very transparent in their placement process and is easy to understand once you know the rules. Seeds 5-16 are bracketed by a computer once the committee puts them in so that teams are bracketed in a way that doesn't break the rules and is "fair."
haha. good one. Computers are certainly not fair either. Why would a computer have LSU, a six seed, playing a 1,000 miles from home and place ISU within easy driving distance?
 

83Hawk

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Sep 17, 2002
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I completely agree. I said this in another thread, but I would love to see the big ten go back to 18 games. They should wrap up the conference tournament the Sunday before selection Sunday.

Then teams can play 2 non conference games to end the season. Why not? The committee puts no emphasis on the back half of the schedule anymore. You'd still have the same resume as any other year, just push 2 of those early season "easy" games back.

It would give the big ten teams time to rest up some guys, heal, and it would give the coaches a little breather to prep for March Madness.

It would also allow the tournament champs and conference regular season champs a week to enjoy it and actually benefit from it. Plus, it would give the committee time to account for the tournament performance. And as a ratings boost for the conference, it would be the first "March madness" event.

What's the problem with this scenario? Too sexy?
There was one year where the Big 10 played their tournament one week earlier. People complained that extra week off made the teams rusty for the ncaa.
 

HawknBadgerLand

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Jul 13, 2017
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There was one year where the Big 10 played their tournament one week earlier. People complained that extra week off made the teams rusty for the ncaa.
Ha! Dang it. Well, maybe it just doesn't matter. I'll say this though, as a fan I do get tired of the 20 game schedule. Purdue 3x? No thinks.
 

FWIW4922463

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Computers are certainly not fair either. Why would a computer have LSU, a six seed, playing a 1,000 miles from home and place ISU within easy driving distance?
For decades we've known the obvious facts about computers. (1) They are programmed by humans. Therefore, (2) Garbage in, garbage out (GIGO).
 
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TampaHawkfan

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I'm more and more in the camp of wanting to see the BTT played earlier than it is. But I suppose I can wish in one hand, and, well, you know.

Plus, how often does Iowa ever get to play anywhere near home in the big dance? I thought this whole pod system was designed to keep teams as close to home as possible. Apparently not. :( Then there's the darlings of basketball... like Duke, who always get to play their 1st and 2nd round games somewhere in the Carolinas, year in and year out.

WTF.
 
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Steve Waite

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The tournament all comes down to matchups.
We beat ourselves and have no excuses!
I think if your a top 4 seed in the tournament you should get to play closer to home.
The Big Tournament Champion should not have to play until Friday.
What I don’t understand is how Buffalo, NY is in the Midwest bracket? I thought the National tournament was about putting butts in the seats and making money! Epic Fail!
 

fezzador

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I still say Big Ten championship game time massively worked against them. I'm certain the committee had everything predetermined based on a Purdue win and after Iowa pulled it off they just went ahead with it anyways since it was so close to the deadline. And yes, win or lose in the Big Ten tourney it was pretty ridiculous being literally one of the last two teams in the country to play a game before the tournament and then getting an early Thursday game.
The SEC also has a "last minute" conference championship game and they look like a bag of ass too, even more than the B1G to be honest.
 

mphawk

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I'm more and more in the camp of wanting to see the BTT played earlier than it is. But I suppose I can wish in one hand, and, well, you know.

Plus, how often does Iowa ever get to play anywhere near home in the big dance? I thought this whole pod system was designed to keep teams as close to home as possible. Apparently not. :( Then there's the darlings of basketball, like Duke, who always get to play their 1st and 2nd round games somewhere in the Carolinas, year in and year out.

WTF.
No one has mentioned the main reason for the timing of the Men's BTT. It is because the league rightfully doesn't want it played the same time as the Women's BTT. I know other conferences don't do it that way, but I don't see it ever changing. I suppose they could trade off, but that won't happen either.
 
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HawkHoops80

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haha. good one. Computers are certainly not fair either. Why would a computer have LSU, a six seed, playing a 1,000 miles from home and place ISU within easy driving distance?
Use your brain. Critical thinking skills aren't difficult. They can't go to Indy with Tennessee--that left LSU with options of MKE with Wisconsin or Purdue or to San Diego with Texas Tech. Alabama got sent to San Diego instead--I'm sure that was a raucous crowd for the Tide in California.