Need Advice - Friend Threatening Suicide

[jasonrann]

A very good friend of mine is dealing with a shitty legal situation. As a result, he is in the middle of a divorce and has lost his job. To make matters worse, he has a drug and alcohol problem. After taking him to treatment ten months ago, he went through a significant stretch where he was sober. His current depressive state is not helped by his backsliding to alcohol and drugs. I am at a point where I don’t know what to do. I keep having the same conversations with him and he will not do anything different. He was fired from one of his new jobs last night and I am pretty sure he was gunning to get fired. He talks of suicide regularly, at least until he starts drinking and using. I am concerned he will not pull out of this current slide.

Does anyone have experience with this? I am going to be speaking to a doctor today that I have known for 15 years to get a therapist referral from him. That said, I doubt he will go.

I am at my wits end.

 

[tigerguy_]

You know Zach Smith???

 

[millah_22]

You know Zach Smith???

Seriously? The first response to someone threatening suicide is a joke?

 

[UKGrad93]

Suicide Prevention

Try the link, it has some information. Sounds like your friend really needs help right now.






(my joke answer was going to be buy him a gun or kick the chair from under him).

 

[millah_22]

A very good friend of mine is dealing with a shitty legal situation. As a result, he is in the middle of a divorce and has lost his job. To make matters worse, he has a drug and alcohol problem. After taking him to treatment ten months ago, he went through a significant stretch where he was sober. His current depressive state is not helped by his backsliding to alcohol and drugs. I am at a point where I don’t know what to do. I keep having the same conversations with him and he will not do anything different. He was fired from one of his new jobs last night and I am pretty sure he was gunning to get fired. He talks of suicide regularly, at least until he starts drinking and using. I am concerned he will not pull out of this current slide.

Does anyone have experience with this? I am going to be speaking to a doctor today that I have known for 15 years to get a therapist referral from him. That said, I doubt he will go.

I am at my wits end.

The best thing you can do is keep talking to him. You can also call the Suicide Hotline at 1-800-273-8255. They might have some instructions or guidelines to help also.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

A very good friend of mine is dealing with a shitty legal situation. As a result, he is in the middle of a divorce and has lost his job. To make matters worse, he has a drug and alcohol problem. After taking him to treatment ten months ago, he went through a significant stretch where he was sober. His current depressive state is not helped by his backsliding to alcohol and drugs. I am at a point where I don’t know what to do. I keep having the same conversations with him and he will not do anything different. He was fired from one of his new jobs last night and I am pretty sure he was gunning to get fired. He talks of suicide regularly, at least until he starts drinking and using. I am concerned he will not pull out of this current slide.

Does anyone have experience with this? I am going to be speaking to a doctor today that I have known for 15 years to get a therapist referral from him. That said, I doubt he will go.

I am at my wits end.

He can be involuntarily committed if he's threatening self harm...I have no idea how an acquaintance accomplishes that. Other than that...no clue.


Amendment - apparently, the evaluation by the admitting staff has to conclude that there's a real risk of suicide to justify an involuntary commitment. Your friend could just lie.

 

[jasonrann]

You know Zach Smith???

Not exactly the help I was looking for, a-hole.

 

[Run&Blade]

Any chance there is an old teacher or high school guidance counselor from his past that he really liked/respected?

Trying to think outside box because finances and comfort level don’t always equal going to a professional.

Obviously not leaving him alone is crucial but that is likely not realistic.

Loneliness and desperation are tough things to deal with.

 

[Fan In Black]

Its tough. We have had 4 suicides in the family. Each was different circumstances. Different ages. Different upbringings. Different situations in life. One was on watch and everybody tried to help. The only thing you can really do is support your friend and recommend help. And get help yourself ( don't ignore this its probably the most important thing).

 

[Fan In Black]

He can be involuntarily committed if he's threatening self harm...I have no idea how an acquaintance accomplishes that. Other than that...no clue.


Amendment - apparently, the evaluation by the admitting staff has to conclude that there's a real risk of suicide to justify an involuntary commitment. Your friend could just lie.

Its almost impossible to have someone committed if they don't want to be.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Its almost impossible to have someone committed if they don't want to be.

Sadly, it's almost impossible to talk someone out of suicide if they really want to do it.

 

[Wendy79]

If you think he is in immediate danger, or if he may have others in immediate danger, call 911.

If he has guns, I'm not sure if there would be any laws in your area that would come into play to have those temporarily removed. For a large percentage of suicidal people, it's a matter of opportunity and impulsiveness (as in, the gun is sitting right there, so they use it, instead of sitting down and coming up with a plan); many people think "well, someone who is suicidal is going to kill themselves no matter what" but that's often definitely not the case.

The suicide hotline is a good option.

And remember that whatever happens, it's not your responsibility.

 

[sausagethehorse]

I lost an older brother to suicide and have another family member that attempted but was saved. It's absolutely horrible. I think the referral is a good idea and explain to him that he'll be causing great pain to everyone that's ever loved him. Nothing is ever so bad that I'd view it as warranting suicide. He needs to find perspective and needs to have medical professionals on his side. I wish you both well.

To anyone in this thread that has badly failed in their attempts at humor, I feel sorry for you. Don't tear someone down in hopes of lifting yourself up.

 

[jellyfish10]

I don’t have a lot of time right now, but as someone that has experienced similar feelings with similar issues, I can gaurantee you that drinking exacerbates the dispair. I have taken enough pills to kill a horse, stuck a gun in my mouth more times than I care to admit, and watched someone I love try to drink themselves to death. Getting someone to quit drinking if they don’t want to is probably damn near impossible, but I know from experience that medicating helps in the immediate time, but as soon as you sober up again, the only way to forget about the pain is to medicate again. That would be the first thing imo Jason. Find a way to address that issue if at all possible. Best of luck my brother.

 

[ICHawk-I]

A very good friend of mine is dealing with a shitty legal situation. As a result, he is in the middle of a divorce and has lost his job. To make matters worse, he has a drug and alcohol problem. After taking him to treatment ten months ago, he went through a significant stretch where he was sober. His current depressive state is not helped by his backsliding to alcohol and drugs. I am at a point where I don’t know what to do. I keep having the same conversations with him and he will not do anything different. He was fired from one of his new jobs last night and I am pretty sure he was gunning to get fired. He talks of suicide regularly, at least until he starts drinking and using. I am concerned he will not pull out of this current slide.

Does anyone have experience with this? I am going to be speaking to a doctor today that I have known for 15 years to get a therapist referral from him. That said, I doubt he will go.

I am at my wits end.

Had a "friend" who was in the same place and the alcohol made it so much worse. I wasn't sure if he was serious about hurting himself but he was in such a dark place and wanted out and made threats. Got to a point there were lots of guys who tried to talk to him and he didn't listen or want help, and we got fed up with it because he didn't help the situation and often made it worse through bad choices and wanted sympathy for it.

If he starts talking about a plan to end his life (and not just threats) he's probably serious about it as from what you've said he could be at rock bottom.

Good luck to you and your friend. Hope you can find him the help he needs or find peace and comfort knowing you've done all you can to help him through this.

 

[hydro2.0]

While I don’t have a lot personal experience, I worn closely with adult students and this is a big topic.

People think about suicide all the time. It’s normal. When it becomes troublesome it when that person “has a plan” and that’s what I would suggest you ask your friend. If they say yes, ask when. If it’s immediate, call the police. If it’s not, certainly try and navigate your friend to the resources above.

I hope everything works out.

 

[jasonrann]

I lost an older brother to suicide and have another family member that attempted but was saved. It's absolutely horrible. I think the referral is a good idea and explain to him that he'll be causing great pain to everyone that's ever loved him. Nothing is ever so bad that I'd view it as warranting suicide. He needs to find perspective and needs to have medical professionals on his side. I wish you both well.

To anyone in this thread that has badly failed in their attempts at humor, I feel sorry for you. Don't tear someone down in hopes of lifting yourself up.

Well, I wasn't going to disclose this, but what the hell. It isn't a friend, it's my younger brother. We are very close. Unfortunately, he has TONS of unresolved issues from our childhood that are further complicating the matter. He used his wife and two kids as a way to not think about that stuff. Now that he is alone and working part time, all he has is time. The therapist I am talking to today is someone I saw regularly for ten years to deal with those issues. I feel awful because I am now getting frustrated with him and I know that doesn't help.

 

[sausagethehorse]

Well, I wasn't going to disclose this, but what the hell. It isn't a friend, it's my younger brother. We are very close. Unfortunately, he has TONS of unresolved issues from our childhood that are further complicating the matter. He used his wife and two kids as a way to not think about that stuff. Now that he is alone and working part time, all he has is time. The therapist I am talking to today is someone I saw regularly for ten years to deal with those issues. I feel awful because I am now getting frustrated with him and I know that doesn't help.

Don't be afraid to do all you can in your power to get him the help he needs. When he gets upset with you for pushing for that help, and he will, just let it slide and hope that he gets to a place in the future where he can realize why you did what you did. My brother was a severe alcoholic and drug user, lost his wife and two daughters to divorce and a move out of state and I, personally, wasn't aware of how low it brought him until it was too late. It happened over 25 years ago and I tell people that time heals all wounds but the scars are permanent. No one in my family(9 kids) has ever been the same and my parents never really forgave themselves, which is also extremely unfortunate because we tried for years to help him, he just didn't always want it.

 

[hawkbirch]

I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position. Wendy is right. No matter what your brother chooses, it's not your responsibility or fault to stop your brother or save him.

You said you took him to treatment 10 months ago. Is there someone from that program that you could contact that could help? I would certainly be looking for a professional to help if I was in your shoes.

Are you in Iowa? If so, you can go to the Clerk of Court and request an involuntary commitment for either substance abuse or mental health. The Clerk can help you fill out the paperwork and it goes straight to the judge. It's not a bad idea to try. the worst thing the judge can say is no.

 

[obfuscating]

He can be involuntarily committed if he's threatening self harm...I have no idea how an acquaintance accomplishes that. Other than that...no clue.


Amendment - apparently, the evaluation by the admitting staff has to conclude that there's a real risk of suicide to justify an involuntary commitment. Your friend could just lie.

Go to the court house or sheriff's and tell them what is going on and that he is a threat to himself, I think it takes 2 adults to make it legal.

Best of luck!!

 

[jasonrann]

I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position. Wendy is right. No matter what your brother chooses, it's not your responsibility or fault to stop your brother or save him.

You said you took him to treatment 10 months ago. Is there someone from that program that you could contact that could help? I would certainly be looking for a professional to help if I was in your shoes.

Are you in Iowa? If so, you can go to the Clerk of Court and request an involuntary commitment for either substance abuse or mental health. The Clerk can help you fill out the paperwork and it goes straight to the judge. It's not a bad idea to try. the worst thing the judge can say is no.

Birch, thank you. I actually have the number of someone he became close with at rehab. I have reached out to him, hopefully that will help also.

 

[srams21]

Well, I wasn't going to disclose this, but what the hell. It isn't a friend, it's my younger brother. We are very close. Unfortunately, he has TONS of unresolved issues from our childhood that are further complicating the matter. He used his wife and two kids as a way to not think about that stuff. Now that he is alone and working part time, all he has is time. The therapist I am talking to today is someone I saw regularly for ten years to deal with those issues. I feel awful because I am now getting frustrated with him and I know that doesn't help.

Very sorry to hear that Jason.

I hope everything turns out well. These situations are tough as hell to go through. Do you live close to him?

 

[soybean]

Well, I wasn't going to disclose this, but what the hell. It isn't a friend, it's my younger brother. We are very close. Unfortunately, he has TONS of unresolved issues from our childhood that are further complicating the matter. He used his wife and two kids as a way to not think about that stuff. Now that he is alone and working part time, all he has is time. The therapist I am talking to today is someone I saw regularly for ten years to deal with those issues. I feel awful because I am now getting frustrated with him and I know that doesn't help.

Try to digest what Wendy said above.

 

[jasonrann]

Very sorry to hear that Jason.

I hope everything turns out well. These situations are tough as hell to go through. Do you live close to him?

I do, we are just a few miles apart. He actually lived with me and my family for four months after he got out of rehab and he was sober that entire time. He felt it was time to move out and get started on his own life again. I feel terrible for saying it, but I was glad when he moved out because the depression and lack of action was becoming a burden to my family. Sadly, being left alone, it didn't take him long to succumb to his vices to cope.

 

[srams21]

I do, we are just a few miles apart. He actually lived with me and my family for four months after he got out of rehab and he was sober that entire time. He felt it was time to move out and get started on his own life again. I feel terrible for saying it, but I was glad when he moved out because the depression and lack of action was becoming a burden to my family. Sadly, being left alone, it didn't take him long to succumb to his vices to cope.

Sounds like he truly suffers from serious depression. Hopefully he can get some help and learn to cope in a more positive manner. Situations like these really put stress on everyone involved. Is he part of his kids lives at all?

 

[jasonrann]

Sounds like he truly suffers from serious depression. Hopefully he can get some help and learn to cope in a more positive manner. Situations like these really put stress on everyone involved. Is he part of his kids lives at all?

I have been speaking with him for the past hour or so about seeing a therapist and he seems open to it, thank god. I also told him he could stay with us for a few days to clear his head, as long as he and I agree to no drinking.

He hasn't seen or spoken to his kids or ex-wife since moving out of the house back in March. I am hoping that once the divorce is sorted out, that will get easier.

 

[Rifler]

I wish I had advice to offer, but I've never had to deal with something like this,... Good luck, I seriously hope this turns out well for both you and your brother.

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

My Dad's best friend was in almost the EXACT same situation your friend is in. As has been noted, alcohol addiction only makes the situation 10X worse. My Dad gave up trying, and a month or two later, his friend ended his life with an army pistol in the mouth. We were pretty close to him as kids, like an uncle. I was saddened, but my sister was traumatized. I think it sent my Dad into a depression as well for a long time. Not sure if any of that helps, but just an anecdote.

 

[Rustys Dad]

I'm very sorry to hear this. You have obvious reason for concern. Your friend is in a very dangerous spot. And kudos to you for wanting to help. Please, just don't put all of the pressure on yourself because you won't be able to "fix" him (I'm speaking from previous experience with a friend). I don't say that as an ahole ... I mean that in all seriousness of don't put too much pressure on yourself.

Professional help is a must. However you get your friend to a trained professional is Numero Uno on that list. As a friend, you can only do so much. And you are being a true friend for reaching out.

Leave it in the hands of a professional to try and get to the root of the problem. Alcohol and drugs will be the first things that must stop.

I wish you and your friend the best and I hope your friend steps up to face his problems head on - to get to the core of what is leading him down a desstructive path. Life is not easy. We all get curveballs ... There is no book on "How to live your life." ... We all learn as we go. We hope we make good decisions. And when we trip, we need to fight and get back up.

Again, kudos for being a good friend ... Many people don't have someone to be in their corner ... Nothing but the best ... and through it all ... know that you are only human and you alone can only do so much ...

A professional should be able to help kick alcohol and drugs to the curb ... and peel back those layers to get at the center of what is going on ...

 

[Rustys Dad]

My Dad's best friend was in almost the EXACT same situation your friend is in. As has been noted, alcohol addiction only makes the situation 10X worse. My Dad gave up trying, and a month or two later, his friend ended his life with an army pistol in the mouth. We were pretty close to him as kids, like an uncle. I was saddened, but my sister was traumatized. I think it sent my Dad into a depression as well for a long time. Not sure if any of that helps, but just an anecdote.

Sorry to hear this ... and yes, alcohol does make the situation that much worse. I have a brother who was discharged from Air Force ... Alcohol has been his enemy for much of his adult life. When he is sober he is as kind as nice as can be. When he drinks? The ugly side comes out ... And his depression rears its ugly face.

 

[jasonrann]

I'm very sorry to hear this. You have obvious reason for concern. Your friend is in a very dangerous spot. And kudos to you for wanting to help. Please, just don't put all of the pressure on yourself because you won't be able to "fix" him (I'm speaking from previous experience with a friend). I don't say that as an ahole ... I mean that in all seriousness of don't put too much pressure on yourself.

Professional help is a must. However you get your friend to a trained professional is Numero Uno on that list. As a friend, you can only do so much. And you are being a true friend for reaching out.

Leave it in the hands of a professional to try and get to the root of the problem. Alcohol and drugs will be the first things that must stop.

I wish you and your friend the best and I hope your friend steps up to face his problems head on - to get to the core of what is leading him down a desstructive path. Life is not easy. We all get curveballs ... There is no book on "How to live your life." ... We all learn as we go. We hope we make good decisions. And when we trip, we need to fight and get back up.

Again, kudos for being a good friend ... Many people don't have someone to be in their corner ... Nothing but the best ... and through it all ... know that you are only human and you alone can only do so much ...

A professional should be able to help kick alcohol and drugs to the curb ... and peel back those layers to get at the center of what is going on ...

Thank you. My brother, sister (no pic) and I are very close. Our mom split when we were 8, 4 1/2 and 2. Never saw her again for 30 years. We have gotten each other through a lot and hopefully will conquer this too. I am happy that he will at least consider speaking to a professional. It sure helped me.

 

[jellyfish10]

Thank you. My brother, sister (no pic) and I are very close. Our mom split when we were 8, 4 1/2 and 2. Never saw her again for 30 years. We have gotten each other through a lot and hopefully will conquer this too. I am happy that he will at least consider speaking to a professional. It sure helped me.

I’ll add one other thing Jason and again, I’m speaking from personal experience not that of a professional. When I was younger, my depression was fueled by my parents divorce and ultimately at that age I needed attention. I wanted people to know I needed help. Now going through it as an adult, the opposite is true. If I’m reading this correctly, your brother has isolated himself to some extent. I did the same thing. My ex gf did the same thing to epic proportions. Isolation allows us to engage in destructive behavior without sharing it with the world. When I am really struggling, not having my son increased my depression. My ex gf whom I still love dearly spent basically a year alone drinking ridiculous amounts of wine and simply spirled out of control. It gets really old being a burden.

If you can get him out for a walk, a workout, a farmer’s market, or whatever the case may be, do so. I think for any of us that have experienced depression with coping mechanisms, the difficulty is finding activities to do that you don’t associate with drinking/drugs. It is SO much easier said than done. Some days you have hope, other days everything seems insurmountable. I will probably struggle with it as long as I live. I hope in time your brother will find some clarity. It is so hard to accept help when you feel like a burden. It is a hopeless feeling. Be as empathetic as you can and again good luck to you, him, and your entire family.

 

[Rustys Dad]

Thank you. My brother, sister (no pic) and I are very close. Our mom split when we were 8, 4 1/2 and 2. Never saw her again for 30 years. We have gotten each other through a lot and hopefully will conquer this too. I am happy that he will at least consider speaking to a professional. It sure helped me.

Thank you for sharing and being your brother has to really hit close to home. Sounds like the three of you have formed a good network to lift each other up. He can do it ... I'm happy to hear he is willing to talk with someone. I'm sending continued good vibes your way.

 

[The Tradition]

I hope your brother doesn't read HROT. Might get really pissed that you're sharing all this.

 

[jasonrann]

I hope your brother doesn't read HROT. Might get really pissed that you're sharing all this.

He doesn't read HROT, but then I don't really give a shit. I'm not sharing it for kicks.

 

[HallofFame]

All to real for me man. Good luck.

 

[JupiterHawk]

Its tough. We have had 4 suicides in the family. Each was different circumstances. Different ages. Different upbringings. Different situations in life. One was on watch and everybody tried to help. The only thing you can really do is support your friend and recommend help. And get help yourself ( don't ignore this its probably the most important thing).

That’s horrible. Im very sorry to read that. Hope your family has pulled though.

 

[JupiterHawk]

I agree with all on alcohol. I also might add that commitment to an exercise can do wonders for the mind and soul.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

I don't have a lot of experience with the suicide part but I do with the alcohol part and it seems the tough talk goes away with the alcohol. But then I would not chance it that it's only talk. and i would not chance that the alcohol goes away. so it's a tough situation. seems to me work on the alcohol first.

 

[Barn Mate]

Really tough situation. Alcohol tends to be an enhancer of mood -- if you're distraught, you might feel a bit of relief before feeling much more distraught. Really bad strategy. I'd tell him that.

Get him some weed. If you want to lean on a drug, do that.

I'd also suggest mindfulness meditation. The idea is that you can get some separation between your thoughts and your emotions -- that they're not necessarily interconnected. You have to break the cycle between negative thought popping into your head -- and you can't help but have these -- and then negative emotion reaction that occurs afterwards. This is cyclical. Negative thoughts beget negative emotions which beget more negative thoughts. . .

So the idea becomes to notice thoughts. Catch and release. Don't fight them. They're going to pop up. And you'll have quite a few to begin with. But over time you can become desensitized to them, and the cycle will slow down.

So mindfulness meditation, then, is sort of a catch and release scenario with your thoughts that you practice. You notice them -- as in, noticing that the negative thought actually popped into your head -- and then move on from it. Waiting for the next thought -- whatever it is -- to pop into your head. You slow the process down and notice them for what they are -- just thoughts, with the realization that you can control what comes afterwards.

Youtube midnfulness:
Leaves on a stream exercise