NET Ranking: On March 17, Iowa is #43. How NET is Determined & What's a QUAD 1, 2, 3 & 4 Win/Loss
- Thread starter Franisdaman
- Start date
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I'm sorry, you said....
"TWO things will be used by the NCAA Selection Committee when selecting the NCAA Tournament Teams & then seeding them:
(1) The NET ranking
(2) A tighter definition of a quality win, classifying wins as Quad 1, Quad 2, Quad 3 and Quad 4."
I'm pointing out there are more than 2 things being used by the selection committee. The NET ranking is a 1:1 replacement for how they used to use the RPI. You are factually incorrect as to what will be used for determining bids and seeds.
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I think Nebraska is in real trouble. Honestly I think they are out and Miles is canned, although I think that would be a mistake.
As far as the NET goes, I'm sure it's not all they consider. However, as with the RPI, they said it wasn't all they considered either, but it sure was a pretty good predictor.
As far as the NET goes, I'm sure it's not all they consider. However, as with the RPI, they said it wasn't all they considered either, but it sure was a pretty good predictor.
I don't recall arguing that the AP and coaches polls were being used to select teams, merely pointing out that those rankings are not totally meaningless.
I guess my disagreement is in saying it's a pretty good predictor. Just last season on Selection Sunday from RPI: #35 got a 12 seed (Buffalo), #14 got a 7 seed (Rhode Island), #23 got a 3 seed (Texas Tech), #44 got an 8 seed (Missouri), #33 didn't get into the tourney (Middle Tennessee State), #42 got a 9 seed (Alabama), #40 didn't get into the tourney (St. Mary's), #66 got an 11 seed, #31 got a 10 seed, etc
Do most teams that rate highly by RPI (or NET) or whatever get into the tourney and get a good seed? Sure because they usually rate highly in a lot of other things that get considered as well. But there can be some drastic outliers every season and if you don't consider other factors your bubble/seed analysis is doomed from the start.
If you want to say that top 25 teams in NET are probably a lock to make the tourney, that is probably true. Once you start getting into the 30s on NET though nothing is guaranteed and even teams in the 50s and 60s can get at large bids while teams in the low 30s of NET get left out.
i think its fair to say that we currently are the 6th best team in the B1G. The NET rankings finally reflect that.
And most are predicting RIGHT NOW that 9 or 10 B1G teams will make the Big Dance.
The problem? Iowa still has 10 games to go and we have to win some damn games.
And most are predicting RIGHT NOW that 9 or 10 B1G teams will make the Big Dance.
The problem? Iowa still has 10 games to go and we have to win some damn games.
They are meaningless towards selection. They just happen to correlate somewhat with those that aren't meaningless.
How can something that correlates with the selections be meaningless? That is scientifically unsound logic.
You are doubling down on stupid. I can't help you.
I didn't say they were meaningless. I said they are meaningless as a criteria of selection. I said this because it is a fact. Good day, sir.
As you can see from the article that follows, NET Rankings matter A LOT. The coaches know it. Winning by at least 10 points matters, too.
From twincities.com / St Paul Pioneer Press:
The Gophers were Not Trying to run up score on Illinois; NET made them do it
By: ANDY GREDER | agreder@pioneerpress.com |
Pioneer Press
PUBLISHED: January 31, 2019 at 12:40 pm |
UPDATED: January 31, 2019 at 1:45 pm
The Gophers men’s basketball team enjoyed a comfortable 14-point lead over Illinois when a mundane personal foul stopped the game with 90 seconds remaining Wednesday night.
It was a perfect opportunity for Minnesota coach Richard Pitino to make wholesale lineup changes. Instead, he kept his first-team players in the game, and the Gophers earned an 86-75 victory at Williams Arena.
“I’m never trying to show up another coach. I don’t like to do that when the game is in hand,” Pitino said
But given college basketball’s new ranking system, the NCAA Evaluation Tool (NET), Pitino feels a need to produce wins by bigger margins.
NET has replaced Rating Percentage Index (RPI) as a primary instrument for at-large NCAA tournament selections, and scoring margin is a less-important data point included in a formula, which is not yet fully understood.
NET caps its inclusion of a game’s point differential at 10 points — trying, it seems, to limit huge blowouts — but now altering games such as Wednesday’s.
“If we can get it, I’m going to (try to) get it,” Pitino said. “It’s hard to win games in this league by double digits.”
On Wednesday, Pitino’s bunch earned revenge against an Illinois team that walloped Minnesota 95-68 in Champaign, Ill., two weeks earlier. Now 6-4 in the Big Ten and 16-5 overall, he feels like his team is gelling as it heads into a tougher 10-game stretch to end the regular season.
But a level of angst emerged at the end of Pitino’s news conference after the game at The Barn. It centered on NET, which the Gophers improved only slightly, from No. 52 to 50, after beating the Illini (6-15, 2-8).
“I’m not saying we are the best team in the country, but with the resume that we have right now — and we could lose and it could change, (but) right now today, we should not be ranked 52nd,” Pitino vented. “I’m not saying a month from now, but it makes no sense to me (now).”
Part of the damage is self-inflicted. The Gophers were 48th in NET before the 27-point loss to the Illini; they slid to No. 66 afterward. They improved that number with recent wins over Penn State and Iowa and a narrow road loss to No. 5 Michigan.
NET’s No. 1 criteria is rewarding teams that beat other good teams. No. 2 is net efficiency (offensive minus defense), and this is where the Gophers have struggled. Minnesota’s offensive efficiency is 50th in the nation, and its defensive efficiency lags at 79th, per analytics web site kenpom.com.
While the final score mattered Wednesday, improving the Gophers’ overall efficiency also factored in. The third and fourth criterion are winning percentage and adjusted winning percentage.
Pitino, who is attempting to make his second NCAA tournament in his sixth season at Minnesota, and Hawkeyes coach Fran McCaffery discussed how efficiency must be factored in before Minnesota’s 92-87 victory over then-No. 19 Iowa on Sunday.
“You’ve got to try to be as efficient as you can on every single possession, if that is what they are going to judge you on,” Pitino said. “I don’t know if that’s the case or not. I think we’re all playing a guessing game on it a little bit, but that is one factor that I’m certainly going to look at.”
From twincities.com / St Paul Pioneer Press:
The Gophers were Not Trying to run up score on Illinois; NET made them do it
By: ANDY GREDER | agreder@pioneerpress.com |
Pioneer Press
PUBLISHED: January 31, 2019 at 12:40 pm |
UPDATED: January 31, 2019 at 1:45 pm
The Gophers men’s basketball team enjoyed a comfortable 14-point lead over Illinois when a mundane personal foul stopped the game with 90 seconds remaining Wednesday night.
It was a perfect opportunity for Minnesota coach Richard Pitino to make wholesale lineup changes. Instead, he kept his first-team players in the game, and the Gophers earned an 86-75 victory at Williams Arena.
“I’m never trying to show up another coach. I don’t like to do that when the game is in hand,” Pitino said
But given college basketball’s new ranking system, the NCAA Evaluation Tool (NET), Pitino feels a need to produce wins by bigger margins.
NET has replaced Rating Percentage Index (RPI) as a primary instrument for at-large NCAA tournament selections, and scoring margin is a less-important data point included in a formula, which is not yet fully understood.
NET caps its inclusion of a game’s point differential at 10 points — trying, it seems, to limit huge blowouts — but now altering games such as Wednesday’s.
“If we can get it, I’m going to (try to) get it,” Pitino said. “It’s hard to win games in this league by double digits.”
On Wednesday, Pitino’s bunch earned revenge against an Illinois team that walloped Minnesota 95-68 in Champaign, Ill., two weeks earlier. Now 6-4 in the Big Ten and 16-5 overall, he feels like his team is gelling as it heads into a tougher 10-game stretch to end the regular season.
But a level of angst emerged at the end of Pitino’s news conference after the game at The Barn. It centered on NET, which the Gophers improved only slightly, from No. 52 to 50, after beating the Illini (6-15, 2-8).
“I’m not saying we are the best team in the country, but with the resume that we have right now — and we could lose and it could change, (but) right now today, we should not be ranked 52nd,” Pitino vented. “I’m not saying a month from now, but it makes no sense to me (now).”
Part of the damage is self-inflicted. The Gophers were 48th in NET before the 27-point loss to the Illini; they slid to No. 66 afterward. They improved that number with recent wins over Penn State and Iowa and a narrow road loss to No. 5 Michigan.
NET’s No. 1 criteria is rewarding teams that beat other good teams. No. 2 is net efficiency (offensive minus defense), and this is where the Gophers have struggled. Minnesota’s offensive efficiency is 50th in the nation, and its defensive efficiency lags at 79th, per analytics web site kenpom.com.
While the final score mattered Wednesday, improving the Gophers’ overall efficiency also factored in. The third and fourth criterion are winning percentage and adjusted winning percentage.
Pitino, who is attempting to make his second NCAA tournament in his sixth season at Minnesota, and Hawkeyes coach Fran McCaffery discussed how efficiency must be factored in before Minnesota’s 92-87 victory over then-No. 19 Iowa on Sunday.
“You’ve got to try to be as efficient as you can on every single possession, if that is what they are going to judge you on,” Pitino said. “I don’t know if that’s the case or not. I think we’re all playing a guessing game on it a little bit, but that is one factor that I’m certainly going to look at.”
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Hey coach. I stayed away from the game thread tonight. Oh I guess I can use the word now. Didn't want to jinx them. Sure glad they got the big one!
Huge win because as they stated in the game, our NET ranking and those Quad 1 & Quad 2 results MATTER!Hey coach. I stayed away from the game thread tonight. Oh I guess I can use the word now. Didn't want to jinx them. Sure glad they got the big one!
And if Bucky loses Iowa's ranking would take a small hit..
Only matters come March
Yep. Lots of fluidity in the NET rankings and in quad results.
IU & Nebbie are dropping like rocks, for example.
Its kind of maddening really, you need Wisconsin to lose to catch them in the NET, but wait you need them to win because you lost to them and need them to stay as a Q1 loss, but wait you need WIsconsin to lose if you want to catch them in the standings,
yeah, Wisky winning helps our NET ranking so I have to hold my nose when rooting for them to win.Its kind of maddening really, you need Wisconsin to lose to catch them in the NET, but wait you need them to win because you lost to them and need them to stay as a Q1 loss, but wait you need WIsconsin to lose if you want to catch them in the standings,
what do you predict our NET ranking will be tomorrow?Its kind of maddening really, you need Wisconsin to lose to catch them in the NET, but wait you need them to win because you lost to them and need them to stay as a Q1 loss, but wait you need WIsconsin to lose if you want to catch them in the standings,
Predictions on our NET Ranking tomorrow?
To date, WHAT FOLLOWS are the Iowa (17-5) quadrant wins & losses.
* The date of the opponent's NET Ranking is listed.
* Similar to the NET ranking, a Quad 1 win on the date listed might not be a Quad 1 win TODAY or in March (there has been fluidity).
SORTING OF #27 (NET Rank) IOWA'S RESULTS (17-5) INTO THE 4 QUADS:
Quadrant 1 (4-5): Home vs a 1-30 team, Neutral site vs 1-50, Away vs 1-75.
WINS
# 24 on Jan 16 (H) Iowa State
# 10 on Jan 16 (H) Nebraska
# 58 on Jan 16 (A) Northwestern
#2 on Jan 17 Michigan (H)
LOSSES
# 20 on Jan 16 (H) Wisconsin
#7 on Jan 16 (A) Michigan State
#17 on Jan 16 (A) Purdue
#6 on Jan 17 Michigan State (H)
#63 on Jan 17 Minnesota (A)
Quadrant 2 (5-0): Home vs a 31-75, Neutral site vs 51-100, Away vs 76-135.
WINS
#77 on Jan 16 (N) Oregon
#88 on Jan 16 (N) UConn
#53 on Jan 16 (H) Pittsburgh
# 36 on Jan 16 (H) Ohio State
#84 on Jan 17 (A) Penn State
Quadrant 3 (1-0): Home vs a 76-160, Neutral site vs 101-200, Away vs 135-240.
WINS
#99 on Jan 17 Illinois (H)
Quadrant 4 (7-0): Home vs a 161-353, Neutral vs 201-353, Away vs 241-353
WINS
#234 on Jan 16 (H) UMKC
#192 on Jan 16 (H) Green Bay
#324 on Jan 16 (H) Alabama State
#217 on Jan 16 (N) UNI
#269 on Jan 16 (H) Western Carolina
#343 on Jan 16 (H) Savannah State
#316 on Jan 16 (H) Bryant
9 games left on the schedule:
Quadrant 1 (6 games): Home vs a 1-30 team, Neutral site vs 1-50, Away vs 1-75
#30 on Jan 17 Indiana (A)
#21 on Jan 17 Maryland (H)
#30 on Jan 17 Indiana (H)
#36 on Jan 17 Ohio State (A)
#22 on Jan 17 Wisconsin (A)
#11 on Jan 17 Nebraska (A)
.
Quadrant 2 (1 game): Home vs a 31-75, Neutral site vs 51-100, Away vs 76-135.
#59 on Jan 17 Northwestern (H)
Quadrant 3 (2 games): Home vs a 76-160, Neutral site vs 101-200, Away vs 135-240.
#136 on Jan 17 Rutgers (A)
#136 on Jan 17 Rutgers (H)
Quadrant 4 (0 games): Home vs a 161-353, Neutral vs 201-353, Away vs 241-353
NONE LEFT ON THE SCHEDULE
_______________________________
Previous NET Rankings for Iowa:
#27 on Jan 30 & Jan 31
#28 on Jan 29
#30 on Jan 28
#25 on Jan 27
#24 on Jan 26
#22 on Jan 23
#25 on Jan 22
#25 on Jan 19
#24 on Jan 18
#29 on Jan 13
#35 on Jan 12
To date, WHAT FOLLOWS are the Iowa (17-5) quadrant wins & losses.
* The date of the opponent's NET Ranking is listed.
* Similar to the NET ranking, a Quad 1 win on the date listed might not be a Quad 1 win TODAY or in March (there has been fluidity).
SORTING OF #27 (NET Rank) IOWA'S RESULTS (17-5) INTO THE 4 QUADS:
Quadrant 1 (4-5): Home vs a 1-30 team, Neutral site vs 1-50, Away vs 1-75.
WINS
# 24 on Jan 16 (H) Iowa State
# 10 on Jan 16 (H) Nebraska
# 58 on Jan 16 (A) Northwestern
#2 on Jan 17 Michigan (H)
LOSSES
# 20 on Jan 16 (H) Wisconsin
#7 on Jan 16 (A) Michigan State
#17 on Jan 16 (A) Purdue
#6 on Jan 17 Michigan State (H)
#63 on Jan 17 Minnesota (A)
Quadrant 2 (5-0): Home vs a 31-75, Neutral site vs 51-100, Away vs 76-135.
WINS
#77 on Jan 16 (N) Oregon
#88 on Jan 16 (N) UConn
#53 on Jan 16 (H) Pittsburgh
# 36 on Jan 16 (H) Ohio State
#84 on Jan 17 (A) Penn State
Quadrant 3 (1-0): Home vs a 76-160, Neutral site vs 101-200, Away vs 135-240.
WINS
#99 on Jan 17 Illinois (H)
Quadrant 4 (7-0): Home vs a 161-353, Neutral vs 201-353, Away vs 241-353
WINS
#234 on Jan 16 (H) UMKC
#192 on Jan 16 (H) Green Bay
#324 on Jan 16 (H) Alabama State
#217 on Jan 16 (N) UNI
#269 on Jan 16 (H) Western Carolina
#343 on Jan 16 (H) Savannah State
#316 on Jan 16 (H) Bryant
9 games left on the schedule:
Quadrant 1 (6 games): Home vs a 1-30 team, Neutral site vs 1-50, Away vs 1-75
#30 on Jan 17 Indiana (A)
#21 on Jan 17 Maryland (H)
#30 on Jan 17 Indiana (H)
#36 on Jan 17 Ohio State (A)
#22 on Jan 17 Wisconsin (A)
#11 on Jan 17 Nebraska (A)
.
Quadrant 2 (1 game): Home vs a 31-75, Neutral site vs 51-100, Away vs 76-135.
#59 on Jan 17 Northwestern (H)
Quadrant 3 (2 games): Home vs a 76-160, Neutral site vs 101-200, Away vs 135-240.
#136 on Jan 17 Rutgers (A)
#136 on Jan 17 Rutgers (H)
Quadrant 4 (0 games): Home vs a 161-353, Neutral vs 201-353, Away vs 241-353
NONE LEFT ON THE SCHEDULE
_______________________________
Previous NET Rankings for Iowa:
#27 on Jan 30 & Jan 31
#28 on Jan 29
#30 on Jan 28
#25 on Jan 27
#24 on Jan 26
#22 on Jan 23
#25 on Jan 22
#25 on Jan 19
#24 on Jan 18
#29 on Jan 13
#35 on Jan 12
Can you find a list of teams nationally that are similar to where we are at in NET rankings right now?
To see all teams' NET Rankings & quadrant results, open the link that follows, scroll down on the page that comes up & on the far right you will see NET Team Sheets - Games through [date]. Click on the most recent link or a previous date.
LINK: https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/SitePages/Home.aspx
Thanks. Hey. Mich got 3 points from their bench. Our guys off the bench gave us 24.
Great coaching, but I might be a bit biased.Thanks. Hey. Mich got 3 points from their bench. Our guys off the bench gave us 24.
Quad 1 win, baby!
Dick VitaleVerified account@DickieV 35m35 minutes ago
Yes time to Tip the hat to FRAN McCaffrey & the @IowaHoops for their sensational game tonight vs @umichbball .The @TheIowaHawkeyes dominated on D & on O to give the @BMaize & Blue only their 2 nd L ! @B1GMBBall having a gr8 yr !
Dick VitaleVerified account@DickieV 35m35 minutes ago
Yes time to Tip the hat to FRAN McCaffrey & the @IowaHoops for their sensational game tonight vs @umichbball .The @TheIowaHawkeyes dominated on D & on O to give the @BMaize & Blue only their 2 nd L ! @B1GMBBall having a gr8 yr !
So Indiana is now a #48, man they have dropped almost 20 points in 2 weeks
Nebraska 16 points in 2 weeks..
Note to self don't get on any lengthy losing streaks and don't lose by double digits at home.
yeah, NET rankings and quad results are all over the place
that's why I put the date of the opponent's NET ranking; it will be interesting to see if a quad 1 & quad 2 win then will still be a quad 1 & quad 2 win in March
Thanks for keeping those Jan 16/ 17 NET scores, it is cool to see how far things will shift up or down..
Iowa beat #4 (NET rank) Michigan by 15; unfortunately for NET ranking purposes, the win is capped at 10 points.
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Iowa up to 22, 5th best team, according to the NET rankings, in the B1G.
How much more? Does a quad 1 loss count for anything? Does a quad 1 loss count for more or less than a quad 2 win? etc. etc. etc
