Curious, how do you explain the many references to a loving, graceful, redeemer throughout the OT?
New evidence suggests burial cloth ‘showing imprint of Jesus’ is REAL
- Thread starter NoleATL
- Start date
*sigh* He was their “redeemer”. He treated their enemies as subhuman. And you cannot square loving and graceful with the petty, vindictive, angry god who ordered and committed genocide. Your “loving, graceful redeemer” came closer to exterminating the Jews his chosen people - than Hitler could have dreamed of.
You should present your evidence because the archeological consensus is that there isn't evidence for a massive immigration as described in Exodus. This is consistent with the historical data in which the Canaanites, the Egyptians, the mesopotamians do no not describe a massive migration leaving or entering the area and that Canaan was under Egyptian control during this period. It is consistent with the genetic and cultural evidence which indicates inside development out of the Canaanites. I think it is possible that some sort of smaller event may have occurred with Canaanite slaves escaping from Egypt or a warlord making forays into Egypt and back and that this became mythologized over time but it is highly improbable that a large scale event as described in Exodus occurred.
Here's Newsweek:
www.newsweek.com
Turin Shroud study claims controversial cloth does date to time of Jesus
The linen cloth is believed by some to have been Jesus Christ's burial shroud, but its authenticity has long been questioned.
www.newsweek.com
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water Tar!!
Was God not correct judging the Caananites, Moabites, etc against their sin? Should He have consulted you? Give them a slap on the wrist? God said the penalty of sin is death and those were rebellious, sinful groups. Seems like a fair administration of justice, no? Would Israel and Judah have lived in happy peace time with these neighbors if God decided to leave them be? Or, would the Israelites have been slaughtered themselves? Maybe someone had a plan???
There is a ton of good and foreshadowing of Jesus throughout the OT starting in Genesis.
When I was about 35 and re-read the OT with a new lense, the book came alive as a path towards Jesus for Israel.
Isaac carrying wood up Mt. Moriah for his own sacrifice (Mt. Moriah is actually Golgotha) and then the angel calls for substitutional sacrifice.
Book of Ruth - the Kinsmen Redeemer for Ruth is a beautiful story. Boaz marries her and takes on the sacred role of kinsmen redeemer (a role Jesus would play later for us all). No shock, Ruth’s offspring are chronicled in the bloodline for Jesus.
Then you have Isaiah and some scary accurate predictions of the coming messiah and all that!
I’d summarize the issue is that a lot of scholarly research on the topic was done in the 19th to mid-20th century and a consensus was reached in mainline academia. But, newer technology since has found quite a bit but since it presents evidence against consensus, not a lot of desire to publish. There are still some doing excellent work.
An excellent read to get started: https://books.google.com/books/about/Unearthing_the_Bible.html?id=YDnKDwAAQBAJ
Kennedy is an adjunct professor at Biola University which requires articles of faith pledge, which states that the Bible is inerrant. He also works for the Discovery Institute which is a creationist organization. He is not allowed to evaluate the evidence and come to the conclusion that the Bible may be incorrect as a condition of his employment.
Yes...he should have. I would have advised that when destroying a city because the people are sacrificing their children, it's a really bad idea to then command your people...pay very close attention here...to kill every child they encounter. At the very least, it's just bad press. At the worst, it makes you look like a vicious, hypocritical, psychopathic monster. But then, they invented a god who assigned the sins of the father to the child and the children to come for generations. Gotta destroy that entire bloodline...cleanse their DNA from the gene pool...amirite?
Do you agree with that assessment? Should we do that with the families of those who committed mass murder at Columbine...Newton...Uvalde? Is that a god you would worship? Not me, thank you very much. And, yes, I know the NT changed the rules. That just adds "schizoid" to the list of that god's attributes. You'd be a lot better off divorcing the NT from the OT completely.
Just curious, why did you leave out the rest of the author’s bona fides including doctorate and field research?
Can not a researcher/scientist work influence their beliefs? Your bias is also showing.
Let’s pretend God told them to play nice and not make war with their neighbors. In that event, what outcome do you think the Israel would have experienced?
It is reasonable to question the research of an archaeologist that signs a pledge of faith that presupposes the inerrancy of the Bible. Everybody has biases but it would appear that his goal is to prove the Bible is true. An archeologist not bound by a pledge could publish research and findings that support the biblical narrative or that contradict it.Just curious, why did you leave out the rest of the author’s bona fides including doctorate and field research?
Can not a researcher/scientist work influence their beliefs? Your bias is also showing.
Before I ask you to actually read his work, would you apply the same reasoning to someone like Stephen Hawking who stated he was an atheist his entire life?
And there you go again. At this point, I have to assume it's a deliberate ploy on your part to avoid the difficulties your Bible poses for you. How's this for a deal - you show me where I said "no war". Find it and I'll leave HBOT until next year. Fail and you leave. I suspect you'll pass...which, of course, is your admission that you made that shit up.
If you can't discern a line between fighting a war and total genocide - including murdering the very children whose murders you god is so appalled by...then there really is no helping you. Is there a difference between the Canaanites sacrificing them to appease their fake god and the Israelis skewering them to appease THEIR fake god? I'd appreciate you explaining that difference.
The relevant question is highlighted for your benefit. Try to respond on point. TIA
Glad we agree. It made sense for God to protect the same people He promised to protect by fighting a successful war with its neighbors. God wins, again.
We'll never agree. Murdering children is always wrong in my world. Thanks for admitting that you can't justify your god ordering it so you just ignore that it happened in YOUR world. You couldn't have made that any clearer without saying it outright. That's why I and many others reject your ridiculous religious views. You preach "moral absolutes" and then you simply ignore them wherever it's problematic or inconvenient. That's called "moral relativism"...the very club you and yours use against those who say there is no god. It's also called hypocrisy of the highest order.
Who did any murdering?
What would you say is the difference between murder and execution by the State? If the State adjudicates someone and reaches conviction and executes someone, that is different than murder, yes?
If your argument is truly that children - including infants - were judged “guilty” and righteously executed for the crimes committed by their elders, you and Brian ( yes, I see the “Like”) are everything that is wrong with “Christianity” and you are both reprehensible human beings for believing something so absolutely disgusting.
If you’re trolling, you should be ashamed for even advancing such an idea. Either way, you’re not worthy of engaging in discussion.
Would it be right and just to convict someone and then not administer the due punishment?
Is it fair and just if a judge today said you and your friend are guilty of a capital offense but your friend gets to live while you don’t?
This will be my last post. You and Brian have made it crystal clear that you will overlook any atrocity - including genocide and infanticide - if you believe it’s “God’s will”? You are both one step removed from suicide bombers in service to your “religion”. These last few posts are truly beneath contempt regardless of your goal.
Aren't you "pro-choice?"
Don't complain about killing children if you approve killing them in the womb.
You liked the post that advocated the stance. That’s an endorsement.
Your god performs more abortions in the US every year than all the clinics combined. You might want to file a complaint. Done with you, too.
I wasn't aware his post advocated killing children.
Don't take "Likes" too seriously.
Then your argument is with @LuciousBDragonI wasn't aware his post advocated killing children.
Don't take "Likes" too seriously.
I’ll look forward to seeing you tell him he’s full of shit. Wonder how long it will take.
BTW, your 👍 is still attached to his post advocating the execution of children as is your 🤣 where I called him out. I’ll take that as seriously as I like.
I don't know if I have the energy to read the past 3 pages tonight.
Sorry, brah.
You could start on post #254 on this page. But you’re just dodging as you have from the beginning. You are exactly what I said you are. I won’t be back.I don't know if I have the energy to read the past 3 pages tonight.
Sorry, brah.
I gave you my answer.
Life is a mystery and I don't know all the answers, just some of them.
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