New Overtime Exec Order Coming

[waterboy4582]

We punish workers with high taxes on productive effort and reward gamblers with low taxes on no work whatsoever.

Ain't America great?

Do you honestly think this will ever change? The money will stay right where it is. People that have money aren't going to give any up no matter what Obama says. I would quit hoping for things that won't happen and try and motivate the people that have nothing.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Do you honestly think this will ever change? The money will stay right where it is. People that have money aren't going to give any up no matter what Obama says. I would quit hoping for things that won't happen and try and motivate the people that have nothing.

The fact that those in power will cling to that power is certainly true, but it's not a reason to stop pointing out that we are punishing productive work with our taxes while rewarding speculation and non-productive work.

It's worth pointing this out because many on the right simply don't realize it. They have been told for so long that the "job creators" and "investors" and inheritors are the most deserving members of our culture and have "earned" not only their wealth but the right to low taxes. Total nonsense, of course, but they believe it because they are told it every day.

We need to push back against this meme, no matter how futile it may seem.

 

[waterboy4582]

The fact that those in power will cling to that power is certainly true, but it's not a reason to stop pointing out that we are punishing productive work with our taxes while rewarding speculation and non-productive work.

It's worth pointing this out because many on the right simply don't realize it. They have been told for so long that the "job creators" and "investors" and inheritors are the most deserving members of our culture and have "earned" not only their wealth but the right to low taxes. Total nonsense, of course, but they believe it because they are told it every day.

We need to push back against this meme, no matter how futile it may seem.

but it is futile. Why do minorities that have money not help their own? Pushing a message that will never change things only hardens the "have-nots" into never helping themselves. You might not like it but it is time to face it that this is the world we live in.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

but it is futile. Why do minorities that have money not help their own? Pushing a message that will never change things only hardens the "have-nots" into never helping themselves. You might not like it but it is time to face it that this is the world we live in.

Perhaps I'm naive but I'm hoping for a less disastrous alternative than the blood-bath that is the likely outcome of looking at it your way.

 

[BubsFinn]

Your food stamp point seems obviously correct, but I'm not sure the direction of the reform really matters. If we go very conservative and deport all illegals we get a smaller labor pool and help the workers. If we go ultra liberal and give all illegals citizenship immediately, we remove the underground economy and give all workers labor protections which also helps all workers compete. Nearly anything along the spectrum is better for American laborers when compared to what we have now.

Of course the direction of reform matters. The ultra liberal solution still floods the market with cheap unskilled labor. In fact, it floods it to a greater extent when people find out that the door is open. Initially it may modestly help all workers compete, but it does so at the expense of those who are here legally in the first place. And in the long run, the law of supply and demand still forces wages down. A smaller (more naturally sized) labor pool is good for the American worker.
I’m not saying the ultra conservative approach is the right way either. The first step in either approach has to be to stop illegals from entering the country. Nothing helps American workers unless that is done first. This cannot be done because the Left can’t seem to acknowledge the difference between legal and illegal immigration. They keep painting the Right as “anti-immigrant” and racist whenever they suggest securing (not closing) the border. Until the Left is willing to publicly come out against illegal immigration, any reform that may be passed is meaningless.

 

[coffhawk]

Because some do does not mean everyone can. It's pretty simple economics that there are winners and losers. You and I happen to be lucky enough to have the skills, support, and luck to have been winners. I just want to help those who are less equipped to live a slightly easier life. You would prefer to chastise them for not meeting your standards.

And LOL at you saying "many many people" like it's more than the people who haven't overcome their odds.



In 2015 dollars, you damn well were.

Simmons Perrine pays $95k to their starting attorneys. That's nearly 5 times the previous threshold for receiving overtime pay.




How many paralegals/legal secretaries work overtime? How many of them do it more than 1-2 times per year?

Look, you should be proud of what you've accomplished in your life. But you should also recognize that what you've accomplished is not achievable for every other person in this world. There are people that due to numerous and various reasons, cannot accomplish anything comparable to what you've accomplished.

To accomplish what you have and still maintain your attitude makes me sad, for you have wasted your gift.

GFY. You are ignorance personified. Do not put yourself in my category. You are not even close and will not ever be. I started for a salary under $30k douche. I know of what I speak.

I want everyone to reach their potential and do well. You prefer to sit around making excuses for yourself and everyone else. I know a guy who came up poor, no college, no advantages. Started mowing lawns. Started a landscape business and has built it into a good six figure income. Did it all on his own. Everyone can do something if they are willing to work and not sit around making excuses and playing the victim card.

Finally, I have done and will do more to help others than you can even imagine. I have not wasted anything, loser. Go cry to your uncle Sam and beg for a handout. I will earn what I have.

 

[naturalmwa]

Of course the direction of reform matters. The ultra liberal solution still floods the market with cheap unskilled labor. In fact, it floods it to a greater extent when people find out that the door is open. Initially it may modestly help all workers compete, but it does so at the expense of those who are here legally in the first place. And in the long run, the law of supply and demand still forces wages down. A smaller (more naturally sized) labor pool is good for the American worker.
I’m not saying the ultra conservative approach is the right way either. The first step in either approach has to be to stop illegals from entering the country. Nothing helps American workers unless that is done first. This cannot be done because the Left can’t seem to acknowledge the difference between legal and illegal immigration. They keep painting the Right as “anti-immigrant” and racist whenever they suggest securing (not closing) the border. Until the Left is willing to publicly come out against illegal immigration, any reform that may be passed is meaningless.

No, that cheap unskilled labor pool is already here now. So if tomorrow you granted them all citizenship the only thing that would change is now they and their employers pay taxes and they work under cover of all the labor regulations like this overtime rule which levels the playing field with legal labor.

This left as open border advocate is a red herring. The border is more secure now than ever and the process to make it more so continues. The left met the right more than half way and yet cheap labor Rs continue to prefer the status quo because they like cheap labor.

 

[Arbitr8]

So Barack Hussein Obama disregards a nation of laws and substitutes his "rules", hail "Caesar" or else.

 

[slieb85]

GFY. You are ignorance personified. Do not put yourself in my category. You are not even close and will not ever be. I started for a salary under $30k douche. I know of what I speak.

I want everyone to reach their potential and do well. You prefer to sit around making excuses for yourself and everyone else. I know a guy who came up poor, no college, no advantages. Started mowing lawns. Started a landscape business and has built it into a good six figure income. Did it all on his own. Everyone can do something if they are willing to work and not sit around making excuses and playing the victim card.

Finally, I have done and will do more to help others than you can even imagine. I have not wasted anything, loser. Go cry to your uncle Sam and beg for a handout. I will earn what I have.

I know people like that, too. I just understand that they are the exception, not the norm.

Lol at you speaking as if you're some saint. Do you not realize how unbelievably lucky you are in your life? It's a shame that someone can be as successful as you and not appreciate how unfathomably lucky you are to be in your situation.

I don't know why you seem to think I need a handout. I'm set to make more than triple the proposed amount my first year out. And I'll work a lot more than you (I understand that I have time to put in). And I'll assuredly be far more understanding and considerate toward others, based solely on your beliefs you have espoused in this thread.

I am not advocating on my own behalf.

Looking at it now, I think that's the difference between you and I. You want everyone to be just like you, while not even acknowledging how lucky you are to be in the position you are in, and ignoring the fact that the world simply cannot afford for everyone to be in the positions we are in. I, want everyone to be their best.

For some people, I realize the limitations of their upbringing, intellect, opportunities, social skills simply means their best might be retail sales manager at a Verizon store. For some it might be manager of a Dunkin Donuts. For some it might be like your friend or mine, owning their own business and reaching the levels of income you and I can reach. For so many others, it's less than that. But I'm not willing to tell the retail sales manager at VZW or DD that they should "suck it up and sell their skills elsewhere", mainly because I've been in their shoes and realize that it simply isn't feasible.

I will say, I'm honestly astonished at someone in your position being so anti-middle class. I guess when you were born on 2nd, you thought you hit a single and stole the base, eh?

 

[coffhawk]

I know people like that, too. I just understand that they are the exception, not the norm.

Lol at you speaking as if you're some saint. Do you not realize how unbelievably lucky you are in your life? It's a shame that someone can be as successful as you and not appreciate how unfathomably lucky you are to be in your situation.

I don't know why you seem to think I need a handout. I'm set to make more than triple the proposed amount my first year out. And I'll work a lot more than you (I understand that I have time to put in). And I'll assuredly be far more understanding and considerate toward others, based solely on your beliefs you have espoused in this thread.

I am not advocating on my own behalf.

Looking at it now, I think that's the difference between you and I. You want everyone to be just like you, while not even acknowledging how lucky you are to be in the position you are in, and ignoring the fact that the world simply cannot afford for everyone to be in the positions we are in. I, want everyone to be their best.

For some people, I realize the limitations of their upbringing, intellect, opportunities, social skills simply means their best might be retail sales manager at a Verizon store. For some it might be manager of a Dunkin Donuts. For some it might be like your friend or mine, owning their own business and reaching the levels of income you and I can reach. For so many others, it's less than that. But I'm not willing to tell the retail sales manager at VZW or DD that they should "suck it up and sell their skills elsewhere", mainly because I've been in their shoes and realize that it simply isn't feasible.

I will say, I'm honestly astonished at someone in your position being so anti-middle class. I guess when you were born on 2nd, you thought you hit a single and stole the base, eh?

Since you seem to know so much...tell me about my background and my "luck". This should be good.

 

[slieb85]

Since you seem to know so much...tell me about my background and my "luck". This should be good.

The fact that you're born in Iowa, in the time of economic prosperity is itself a double. Our investment in public education and the fact that you went to a very good state-funded law school to obtain your valuable degree solidifies my feelings. Not to mention that you were born with the intellect to be able to maintain a career as an attorney, something that only a small percentage of the population were born with.

Go ahead. Sit on your throne, Kaiser. The rest of us realize you're a product of your environment and your innate intelligence. Good for you for making the most of it. Maybe when you're older and more mature, you'll realize many of the people who are working these jobs are making the most of their environment and intellect, as well. Then you can stop chastising for not rising to the great heights you have achieved.

 

[MichiganManLifer]

Apparently, you don't understand the difference between proper English and a typo.

Look, you need to stay in the shallow end of the pool with the other low information children. You have shown your cards. You are part of that group of life's losers who need the government to take care of them. You can't compete on your own merit.

This entire thread is irrelevant to you anyway, since you would never even have a chance to be an assistant manager at a fast food joint.

You are unbelievable! You have no clue what I have done or where I came from. I am a self made man and I scoff not at the fast food manager, but instead you...a two bit, ambulance chasing attorney.

I have to assume that is what you are based on your "professional" discourse on this board. Feel free to dispute that in a civil manner and I may reconsider my opinion of you.

 

[FranklinHawk]

Look, you should be proud of what you've accomplished in your life. But you should also recognize that what you've accomplished is not achievable for every other person in this world. There are people that due to numerous and various reasons, cannot accomplish anything comparable to what you've accomplished.

You are right in that there are people who will never achieve the level of an established attorney, but that's setting the bar awfully high and passage of this OT change isn't going to change that. I'll agree there are some who will struggle for very valid reasons to make a comfortable wage, but would you agree that there are as many or likely more where the "numerous and various reasons" includes the lack of drive or desire to succeed?

I just find it difficult to believe the examples of a retail or fast food manager saying that's their ceiling. Is there a significantly lower requirement around management skills to manage people in these environments? What stops these people from looking for management positions that pay better?

I guess I look at it this way. When you take a salaried position you are agreeing to the employment/salary terms that go with it, if your employer is taking advantage of that or you feel you aren't being fairly compensated then it's time to make a change.

 

[22*43*51]

The way our system is set up, a great number of people are simply unable to improve their circumstances.

Patronizing the less fortunate the way you do is not a way to motivate them. It actually cripples them further.

Our "system" must be more burdensome to our citizens than it is to immigrants who enter this country from all over the world. Apparently it is easier to move your family on foot and by train from Central America, than it is to move your family from Southwest Chicago to anywhere else USA that isn't as violent, provides better education and has available jobs.

Find a 2nd generation India expatriate who came from poverty, in a 3rd world country and compare them to any 7th, 8th generation product of our government welfare system.

Competition isn't supposed to work out for everyone. Otherwise it wouldn't be competition. It is the drive to improve and succeed that we need to be encouraging. Don't squelch that piece out of the people who have it; encourage it. Grow it in our youth.

If you want to see what happens when you lower the bar so everyone can get over it and everyone gets the baseline requirements without competing, then I would invite you to visit any of the over 300 Indian Reservations in our country.

 

[slieb85]

You are right in that there are people who will never achieve the level of an established attorney, but that's setting the bar awfully high and passage of this OT change isn't going to change that. I'll agree there are some who will struggle for very valid reasons to make a comfortable wage, but would you agree that there are as many or likely more where the "numerous and various reasons" includes the lack of drive or desire to succeed?

I just find it difficult to believe the examples of a retail or fast food manager saying that's their ceiling. Is there a significantly lower requirement around management skills to manage people in these environments? What stops these people from looking for management positions that pay better?

I guess I look at it this way. When you take a salaried position you are agreeing to the employment/salary terms that go with it, if your employer is taking advantage of that or you feel you aren't being fairly compensated then it's time to make a change.

Patronizing the less fortunate the way you do is not a way to motivate them. It actually cripples them further.

Our "system" must be more burdensome to our citizens than it is to immigrants who enter this country from all over the world. Apparently it is easier to move your family on foot and by train from Central America, than it is to move your family from Southwest Chicago to anywhere else USA that isn't as violent, provides better education and has available jobs.

Find a 2nd generation India expatriate who came from poverty, in a 3rd world country and compare them to any 7th, 8th generation product of our government welfare system.

Competition isn't supposed to work out for everyone. Otherwise it wouldn't be competition. It is the drive to improve and succeed that we need to be encouraging. Don't squelch that piece out of the people who have it; encourage it. Grow it in our youth.

If you want to see what happens when you lower the bar so everyone can get over it and everyone gets the baseline requirements without competing, then I would invite you to visit any of the over 300 Indian Reservations in our country.

Two things. We're talking about a subsect of the population. Raising the wages they must earn in order to not be paid OT, in order to keep up with inflation since last time. And I'm on record in saying that the bump is too big for an initial bump. Let's not go full on politics here and try to turn this into a debate about "lowering the bar" or "welfare State" ok? We're not talking about the 1% nor the welfare Queens.

Second, I really do think a whole bunch of people's ceilings are in jobs that pay anywhere between $25,000-50,000/year on salary. The median US wage is $26,695. I don't see how providing those people a more equitable pay is patronizing to them, nor stifling to competition of American businesses.

As someone who actually held one of these jobs, for about 5 years, I can tell you that the opportunities to "sell yourself elsewhere" are pretty minimal. These jobs are more desirable than the ones below them, and there are droves of people willing to move up from the $12/hr "3rd key holder" to the "assistant manager" job (and on down the line). That kind of competition isn't good, it's a race to the bottom.

And not only did I hold one of these jobs. I held one of these jobs with the intellect and social skills that eventually led me to where I am today. And I still had a hard time "selling myself" to other employers. I don't think it's a stretch to say that a great number of the people working those jobs are not qualified/capable to negotiate their way into better pay.

This is a middle-class protection measure, and one that is already in place. Only thing Obama is proposing to do is catch it back up with inflation. As I said, I'd prefer he did this in 2-3 jumps as opposed to 1, but I think the hysteria over this is hilarious.

 

[coffhawk]

The fact that you're born in Iowa, in the time of economic prosperity is itself a double. Our investment in public education and the fact that you went to a very good state-funded law school to obtain your valuable degree solidifies my feelings. Not to mention that you were born with the intellect to be able to maintain a career as an attorney, something that only a small percentage of the population were born with.

Go ahead. Sit on your throne, Kaiser. The rest of us realize you're a product of your environment and your innate intelligence. Good for you for making the most of it. Maybe when you're older and more mature, you'll realize many of the people who are working these jobs are making the most of their environment and intellect, as well. Then you can stop chastising for not rising to the great heights you have achieved.

Again, your ignorance is on display. I was not born in Iowa, and I don't know how you would have assumed that. What makes you think I was born in time of "economic prosperity".

As far as my intellect goes, I am confident that there are many on this board that do not share your view that a high intellect is a prerequisite to becoming a lawyer. Can I get a witness?

Also, state funded schools, from community college to universities are available to all citizens. There is financial assistance for those with low incomes. So, those opportunities are there for those who are willing to do what it takes to get them.

What you continually fail to understand is that it is you, not me, that wants to sit on a throne, and through government, dictate the winners and losers. You want to force by government edict some kind of liberal notion of equality through redistribution, and anti-free market laws. The problem with all of these (and history demonstrates this over and over) is that they simply do not work, and come with all kinds of unintended consequences that end up hurting the very people that they were intended to benefit.

Finally, you claim to be so altruistic, why are these overtime (or any other such rules) necessary? Aren't you already paying a "fair" compensation? You surely wouldn't exploit a worker, would you?

 

[FranklinHawk]

Two things. We're talking about a subsect of the population. Raising the wages they must earn in order to not be paid OT, in order to keep up with inflation since last time. And I'm on record in saying that the bump is too big for an initial bump. Let's not go full on politics here and try to turn this into a debate about "lowering the bar" or "welfare State" ok? We're not talking about the 1% nor the welfare Queens.

Second, I really do think a whole bunch of people's ceilings are in jobs that pay anywhere between $25,000-50,000/year on salary. The median US wage is $26,695. I don't see how providing those people a more equitable pay is patronizing to them, nor stifling to competition of American businesses.

As someone who actually held one of these jobs, for about 5 years, I can tell you that the opportunities to "sell yourself elsewhere" are pretty minimal. These jobs are more desirable than the ones below them, and there are droves of people willing to move up from the $12/hr "3rd key holder" to the "assistant manager" job (and on down the line). That kind of competition isn't good, it's a race to the bottom.

And not only did I hold one of these jobs. I held one of these jobs with the intellect and social skills that eventually led me to where I am today. And I still had a hard time "selling myself" to other employers. I don't think it's a stretch to say that a great number of the people working those jobs are not qualified/capable to negotiate their way into better pay.

This is a middle-class protection measure, and one that is already in place. Only thing Obama is proposing to do is catch it back up with inflation. As I said, I'd prefer he did this in 2-3 jumps as opposed to 1, but I think the hysteria over this is hilarious.

No hysteria on my part and I didn't try to turn this into a debate about "lowering the bar", your prior post hinted at what Coff had achieved was the bar and I said that wasn't realistic. I just have a different opinion on this than you do, nothing more and nothing less.

I agree there are many who don't likely have the skills to sell themselves into a better situation, my question (which you did not answer) was do you not believe there are also a large number of people who simply aren't willing to put in the time and effort to do so?

 

[coffhawk]

You are unbelievable! You have no clue what I have done or where I came from. I am a self made man and I scoff not at the fast food manager, but instead you...a two bit, ambulance chasing attorney.

I have to assume that is what you are based on your "professional" discourse on this board. Feel free to dispute that in a civil manner and I may reconsider my opinion of you.

Actually, your posts reveal a great deal about you. LOL at a self-made man who begs for the government to guarantee his income.

And I am a very high end, large firm, commercial attorney. I am not a PI attorney. Again, a swing and miss for you. Of course, I do not scoff at anyone, particularly the fast food or retail manager who, unlike you, is willing to work hard to do a good job, and is willing to let his or her talent and production determine his pay, rather than an artificial government mandate. Those folks make more in the long run, than those who rely on government.

 

[coffhawk]

You are right in that there are people who will never achieve the level of an established attorney, but that's setting the bar awfully high and passage of this OT change isn't going to change that. I'll agree there are some who will struggle for very valid reasons to make a comfortable wage, but would you agree that there are as many or likely more where the "numerous and various reasons" includes the lack of drive or desire to succeed?

I just find it difficult to believe the examples of a retail or fast food manager saying that's their ceiling. Is there a significantly lower requirement around management skills to manage people in these environments? What stops these people from looking for management positions that pay better?

I guess I look at it this way. When you take a salaried position you are agreeing to the employment/salary terms that go with it, if your employer is taking advantage of that or you feel you aren't being fairly compensated then it's time to make a change.

This is an excellent post.

 

[coffhawk]

Patronizing the less fortunate the way you do is not a way to motivate them. It actually cripples them further.

Our "system" must be more burdensome to our citizens than it is to immigrants who enter this country from all over the world. Apparently it is easier to move your family on foot and by train from Central America, than it is to move your family from Southwest Chicago to anywhere else USA that isn't as violent, provides better education and has available jobs.

Find a 2nd generation India expatriate who came from poverty, in a 3rd world country and compare them to any 7th, 8th generation product of our government welfare system.

Competition isn't supposed to work out for everyone. Otherwise it wouldn't be competition. It is the drive to improve and succeed that we need to be encouraging. Don't squelch that piece out of the people who have it; encourage it. Grow it in our youth.

If you want to see what happens when you lower the bar so everyone can get over it and everyone gets the baseline requirements without competing, then I would invite you to visit any of the over 300 Indian Reservations in our country.

Another excellent post. Your point about competition is spot on. But, the fact that there are winners and losers in competition does not mean that there is a group that ALWAYS loses. Nearly everyone loses or fails from time to time. The beauty of our system is that you can try again, learn from your past, and win in the future. Too many people simply give up, or play the victim card and look to the government for help.

 

[coffhawk]

Two things. We're talking about a subsect of the population. Raising the wages they must earn in order to not be paid OT, in order to keep up with inflation since last time. And I'm on record in saying that the bump is too big for an initial bump. Let's not go full on politics here and try to turn this into a debate about "lowering the bar" or "welfare State" ok? We're not talking about the 1% nor the welfare Queens.

Second, I really do think a whole bunch of people's ceilings are in jobs that pay anywhere between $25,000-50,000/year on salary. The median US wage is $26,695. I don't see how providing those people a more equitable pay is patronizing to them, nor stifling to competition of American businesses.

As someone who actually held one of these jobs, for about 5 years, I can tell you that the opportunities to "sell yourself elsewhere" are pretty minimal. These jobs are more desirable than the ones below them, and there are droves of people willing to move up from the $12/hr "3rd key holder" to the "assistant manager" job (and on down the line). That kind of competition isn't good, it's a race to the bottom.

And not only did I hold one of these jobs. I held one of these jobs with the intellect and social skills that eventually led me to where I am today. And I still had a hard time "selling myself" to other employers. I don't think it's a stretch to say that a great number of the people working those jobs are not qualified/capable to negotiate their way into better pay.

This is a middle-class protection measure, and one that is already in place. Only thing Obama is proposing to do is catch it back up with inflation. As I said, I'd prefer he did this in 2-3 jumps as opposed to 1, but I think the hysteria over this is hilarious.

So because it was "hard", you want the government to step in and make it easier for you. LOL. Perhaps it was hard for you because you were not as good as the competition.

 

[22*43*51]

As someone who actually held one of these jobs, for about 5 years, I can tell you that the opportunities to "sell yourself elsewhere" are pretty minimal.

Not true.

I have held one of these jobs for 20 years.

Over that time I have lived in 4 different states, worked for three different companies held 8, or 9 different roles and seen my income increase exactly 6.153x over that period. That is what it took me to be successful.

That is what it means to stretch yourself. Get out of your "comfort zone". Develop a career.

That is called competing.

 

[coffhawk]

Not true.

I have held one of these jobs for 20 years.

Over that time I have lived in 4 different states, worked for three different companies held 8, or 9 different roles and seen my income increase exactly 6.153x over that period. That is what it took me to be successful.

That is what it means to stretch yourself. Get out of your "comfort zone". Develop a career.

That is called competing.

Good for you. This is what I am talking about. In every organization, there are people who rise to the top because of effort like this. Others, like the "victims" in this thread, aren't willing or able to do what it takes, and simply go to the government with their hands out begging for money.

 

[slieb85]

No hysteria on my part and I didn't try to turn this into a debate about "lowering the bar", your prior post hinted at what Coff had achieved was the bar and I said that wasn't realistic. I just have a different opinion on this than you do, nothing more and nothing less.

I agree there are many who don't likely have the skills to sell themselves into a better situation, my question (which you did not answer) was do you not believe there are also a large number of people who simply aren't willing to put in the time and effort to do so?

Agree wholeheartedly. I just also think that those people shouldn't be the baseline, nor do I think that is a reason why they should be excluded from overtime pay. (all the other stuff wasn't necessarily directed toward you)

 

[slieb85]

Not true.

I have held one of these jobs for 20 years.

Over that time I have lived in 4 different states, worked for three different companies held 8, or 9 different roles and seen my income increase exactly 6.153x over that period. That is what it took me to be successful.

That is what it means to stretch yourself. Get out of your "comfort zone". Develop a career.

That is called competing.

So you were one of a very select few who made it. Congrats.


I too worked those jobs, and I too rose in pay. But we were exceptions. It's not easy and it's not something that should be expected of every single person who enters one of those jobs.

Additionally, I'm still of the mindset that simply raising the minimum for receiving overtime to keep up with inflation isn't bad for anyone. Since it was last raised, corporations have significantly won, at the expense of workers. Providing a SMALL win for workers won't cripple corporations, and it will help the middle class. I see that as good. You see that as them being "lazy bums" and not doing what you or I did. So be it. I'm pretty comfortable in my opinion.

 

[slieb85]

So because it was "hard", you want the government to step in and make it easier for you. LOL. Perhaps it was hard for you because you were not as good as the competition.

Are you this bad at reading while at your job?

I no longer work in that field. I was doing very well and then left and went back and got my degree and am in the process of getting my law degree. I went out and made changes to get into a place where I didn't need to be so dependent on others to make a decent living.

But, I would contend that I was provided advantages that most others don't have access to. A supportive family. A baseline intellect that allowed me to go to a top law school. A good public university option for my undergrad.


In this thread you've accused me of wanting the government to boost my stock. I go to a private school, on loans with interest ranging from 6-9%. I will be in one of the top brackets upon graduation in one of the country's most expensive cities. I'm not asking for shit from the government for myself. I will be pulling my own weight. And I'll be doing all of that while working those same 80-90 (and more) hour weeks you pulled.

I'm asking for the government to adjust one measure to match inflation, for a more stable middle class.

I'm sorry you're too dimwitted to follow along. I'll try to write you a bullet point memo next time.

 

[slieb85]

Actually, your posts reveal a great deal about you. LOL at a self-made man who begs for the government to guarantee his income.

And I am a very high end, large firm, commercial attorney. I am not a PI attorney. Again, a swing and miss for you. Of course, I do not scoff at anyone, particularly the fast food or retail manager who, unlike you, is willing to work hard to do a good job, and is willing to let his or her talent and production determine his pay, rather than an artificial government mandate. Those folks make more in the long run, than those who rely on government.

You've spent this entire thread attempting to belittle anyone who isn't as successful as you...

 

[slieb85]

Again, your ignorance is on display. I was not born in Iowa, and I don't know how you would have assumed that. What makes you think I was born in time of "economic prosperity".

As far as my intellect goes, I am confident that there are many on this board that do not share your view that a high intellect is a prerequisite to becoming a lawyer. Can I get a witness?

Also, state funded schools, from community college to universities are available to all citizens. There is financial assistance for those with low incomes. So, those opportunities are there for those who are willing to do what it takes to get them.

What you continually fail to understand is that it is you, not me, that wants to sit on a throne, and through government, dictate the winners and losers. You want to force by government edict some kind of liberal notion of equality through redistribution, and anti-free market laws. The problem with all of these (and history demonstrates this over and over) is that they simply do not work, and come with all kinds of unintended consequences that end up hurting the very people that they were intended to benefit.

Finally, you claim to be so altruistic, why are these overtime (or any other such rules) necessary? Aren't you already paying a "fair" compensation? You surely wouldn't exploit a worker, would you?

Ok. Congrats on being so special. I'm glad that you were such an incredible person to make it out of your hardships and into that special life you've created for yourself.

Please, when you have a moment, Kaiser, drop some crumbs down here for the rest of us who just aren't as willing to work for it as you are!

 

[slieb85]

Finally, you claim to be so altruistic, why are these overtime (or any other such rules) necessary? Aren't you already paying a "fair" compensation? You surely wouldn't exploit a worker, would you?

I forgot to address the last point here. I don't employ anyone. These laws won't affect me for at least 10 years. And no, I wouldn't pay someone a salary of $40k and then work them 80 hours a week.

While I'm back in this, maybe you could care to articulate how this is going to "create a ceiling" as you claimed earlier? I'm very interested in hearing your reasoning on that one, and yet, somehow, astonishingly, you avoided that question from me earlier.

 

[22*43*51]

So you were one of a very select few who made it. Congrats.

That has not been my experience. Most of the people I interact with professionally and personally have the same driven story.

Those are behaviors of successful people.

Additionally, if you're agreeable to a salaried position for under 50k you need to have your head examined.

 

[Lone Clone]

This is fascinating.

Both sides in this thread's discussion agree that some people are more gifted and/or capable than others, and these people are more likely to be able to forge successful lives.

One side thinks this shouldn't have any bearing on how much they earn.

 

[22*43*51]

This is fascinating.

Both sides in this thread's discussion agree that some people are more gifted and/or capable than others, and these people are more likely to be able to forge successful lives.

One side thinks this shouldn't have any bearing on how much they earn.

Accurate summary.

 

[slieb85]

This is fascinating.

Both sides in this thread's discussion agree that some people are more gifted and/or capable than others, and these people are more likely to be able to forge successful lives.

One side thinks this shouldn't have any bearing on how much they earn.

Disagree completely with your characterization.

I feel it should make all sorts of difference (which it does in practice). I just would like the baseline to be more in line with what it was when this was originally enacted.

 

[coffhawk]

Are you this bad at reading while at your job?

I no longer work in that field. I was doing very well and then left and went back and got my degree and am in the process of getting my law degree. I went out and made changes to get into a place where I didn't need to be so dependent on others to make a decent living.

But, I would contend that I was provided advantages that most others don't have access to. A supportive family. A baseline intellect that allowed me to go to a top law school. A good public university option for my undergrad.


In this thread you've accused me of wanting the government to boost my stock. I go to a private school, on loans with interest ranging from 6-9%. I will be in one of the top brackets upon graduation in one of the country's most expensive cities. I'm not asking for shit from the government for myself. I will be pulling my own weight. And I'll be doing all of that while working those same 80-90 (and more) hour weeks you pulled.

I'm asking for the government to adjust one measure to match inflation, for a more stable middle class.

I'm sorry you're too dimwitted to follow along. I'll try to write you a bullet point memo next time.

Based on this thread, you have serious credibility issues, since you keep changing your story to respond to other posts.

I hope that you are not being truthful about going to law school. You will not be a very good lawyer. You are making a mistake by borrowing money for this. Given your history, you will most likely be stuck (if you can get a law job at all) in a low paying government job where people share your redistribution philosophy. Will be tough to pay back those loans with that salary.

I hate to tell you this, but if you try private practice, there is no overtime, and no Uncle Sam to level the playing field for you. You produce or you fail.

 

[slieb85]

That has not been my experience. Most of the people I interact with professionally and personally have the same driven story.

Those are behaviors of successful people.

Additionally, if you're agreeable to a salaried position for under 50k you need to have your head examined.

The median household income in America is $26k. Plenty of people are competing for salaried positions for less than $50,000...

You are also interacting with the people at the top levels. Those are the ones who have made it. Think back to everyone you've worked with over the years. Some made it and some didn't. For a multitude of reasons. Acting like "hard-work" is the only deciding factor is laughably ignorant of how the world works. I just want to give the people who never reached higher than that $45,000 threshold a slightly better position in the world. It is sad so many of you are so against it (predictably, you all seem to make more than the threshold).

 

[coffhawk]

Disagree completely with your characterization.

I feel it should make all sorts of difference (which it does in practice). I just would like the baseline to be more in line with what it was when this was originally enacted.

If you disagree with this, it is even more evidence that you lack the skills to be an attorney. It is exactly what you have said repeatedly in your posts. Also, you don't "feel", you think (or at least you are supposed to). See how far your liberal feelings will take you in private practice.

 

[slieb85]

Based on this thread, you have serious credibility issues, since you keep changing your story to respond to other posts.

I hope that you are not being truthful about going to law school. You will not be a very good lawyer. You are making a mistake by borrowing money for this. Given your history, you will most likely be stuck (if you can get a law job at all) in a low paying government job where people share your redistribution philosophy. Will be tough to pay back those loans with that salary.

I hate to tell you this, but if you try private practice, there is no overtime, and no Uncle Sam to level the playing field for you. You produce or you fail.

Lol. I go to Northwestern and I'm sitting in my office in my New York firm at this very moment... I think I'm OK with how my future looks.

I would like to see you go ahead and detail how my story has changed at all during this thread. Let's see it big shot.

 

[coffhawk]

The median household income in America is $26k. Plenty of people are competing for salaried positions for less than $50,000...

You are also interacting with the people at the top levels. Those are the ones who have made it. Think back to everyone you've worked with over the years. Some made it and some didn't. For a multitude of reasons. Acting like "hard-work" is the only deciding factor is laughably ignorant of how the world works. I just want to give the people who never reached higher than that $45,000 threshold a slightly better position in the world. It is sad so many of you are so against it (predictably, you all seem to make more than the threshold).

No it isn't. You can't even be honest about facts. The median household income in just under $52k, not $26k. Unbelievable.

 

[FranklinHawk]

Agree wholeheartedly. I just also think that those people shouldn't be the baseline, nor do I think that is a reason why they should be excluded from overtime pay. (all the other stuff wasn't necessarily directed toward you)

I guess on the other hand I don't feel that an arbitrary $ figure should be the baseline either. Many want to reference those working 60-70 hour weeks and not being fairly compensated, but are those folks who are salaried and under the $50K number that might work between 40-45 hours a week (and maybe only some weeks) not being fairly compensated?

Disagree completely with your characterization.

I feel it should make all sorts of difference (which it does in practice). I just would like the baseline to be more in line with what it was when this was originally enacted.

That's the whole premise of the discussion. You just want to bring the previously legislated number current in today's dollars, while I and others are saying we don't think it was the right decision then or now.

 

[22*43*51]

The median household income in America is $26k. Plenty of people are competing for salaried positions for less than $50,000...

You are also interacting with the people at the top levels. Those are the ones who have made it. Think back to everyone you've worked with over the years. Some made it and some didn't. For a multitude of reasons. Acting like "hard-work" is the only deciding factor is laughably ignorant of how the world works. I just want to give the people who never reached higher than that $45,000 threshold a slightly better position in the world. It is sad so many of you are so against it (predictably, you all seem to make more than the threshold).

You need to find a more inspiring message.

Again, your approach is very patronizing. I feel my motivation waning with every reply.

You also are making a ton of assumptions about a lot of posters and our lifestyles, origins and history. I can only assume that flawed projections carry over to the poor people you are trying to cement in their subjugation.