Next 3 months (and whether Oklahoma gets what it wants) could determine Big 12's Future

[theIowaHawk]

Why so much schadenfreude over the thought that ISU lands in the MAC? This is exactly where Iowa would end up if the B1G dissolved or Iowa put out of the conference and there was no Big XII for the Hawkeyes to migrate towards. Iowa is not as glamorous to other Power 5 conferences as many here would like to believe

You are right, Iowa is a perfect fit in the Big Ten, which is why they are in the Big Ten, and the Big Ten isn't going anywhere.

Just like ISU's most obvious P5 landing would be the Big Ten, it fits with Iowa and what Iowa does, where it wouldn't fit with the SEC.

That isn't schadenfreude, nor should it be taken as an insult.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Selfishly, I don't want to expand to any team that doesn't support wrestling. That would include Virginia and Oklahoma, leaving out Kansas, but I guess any school could pick it up. The B12 has 4 (?) schools with wrestling, SEC has none, ACC has 4.

 

[grosie#2]

You are right, Iowa is a perfect fit in the Big Ten, which is why they are in the Big Ten, and the Big Ten isn't going anywhere.

Just like ISU's most obvious P5 landing would be the Big Ten, it fits with Iowa and what Iowa does, where it wouldn't fit with the SEC.

That isn't schadenfreude, nor should it be taken as an insult.

Totally disagree that ISU would fit in the Big 10 or even big asked if the Big 12 would fold. The Big 10 would be looking for the best TV or fan support areas. This would be Oklahoma, Texas, with maybe West Virginia and OK State. Talk when the Big 12 was rumored to fold a few yrs. ago was ISU would have to go to the Mountain West. This time if the Big 12 were to fold I could see ISU going to the MAC, Mountain West, or the American Conference. With the Big 10 having the pick of the Big 12 it sure wouldn't be ISU.

 

[whatsup13579er]

Totally disagree that ISU would fit in the Big 10 or even big asked if the Big 12 would fold. The Big 10 would be looking for the best TV or fan support areas. This would be Oklahoma, Texas, with maybe West Virginia and OK State. Talk when the Big 12 was rumored to fold a few yrs. ago was ISU would have to go to the Mountain West. This time if the Big 12 were to fold I could see ISU going to the MAC, Mountain West, or the American Conference. With the Big 10 having the pick of the Big 12 it sure wouldn't be ISU.

ISU would be a good fit for the B1G if Iowa wasn't in the picture due to their AAU membership and location. The problem for ISU is that Iowa is in the picture. Therefore, ISU adds nothing to the B1G.

 

[MTHawkeyes43]

Call me when the B1G dissolving is even a question.

Iowa is very well respected both athletically and academically. Iowa would add the entire state of Iowa market. The Iowa athletic dept is always in the top 15ish in revenue. Given the choice of Iowa or Iowa State, any conference is going to pick Iowa before Iowa State every time.

I never proposed which team was more desirable, but thank you for being an overachiever.

 

[MTHawkeyes43]

Hypotheticals are fine to a certain point.

The Big Ten is not dissolving. End of that story.

Iowa is not in any danger of being extricated from the Big Ten.

In comparison, Iowa is eons ahead of isu in the eyes of others. In football alone, Iowa has a strong tradition, much better success and more national recognition that the alternative put forth. As much as some of YOU would like to believe otherwise, it just is not accurate.

Once upon a time you put me in your ignore list, what happened?

 

[soybean]

The BigXII needs 12 teams and a Championship game for sure. It would seem to me that a Wyoming, Colorado State, Utah State, New Mexico, or even UNLV would make perfectly reliable options to add two teams from.

 

[SoDakHawk]

I don't think ISU would end up in the MAC or MWC. Probably a reconstituted AAC with some of the other remnants of the Big 12 molding together with the best of the AAC. The new conference would actually more than likely retain the Big 12 name. The conference would hover somewhere between where G5 and P5 currently are.

 

[hawkssox1]

The BigXII needs 12 teams and a Championship game for sure. It would seem to me that a Wyoming, Colorado State, Utah State, New Mexico, or even UNLV would make perfectly reliable options to add two teams from.

Hope you are not serious.

 

[whatsup13579er]

I never proposed which team was more desirable, but thank you for being an overachiever.

You implied that Iowa and Iowa State were of equal desirability and would both land in the same place, the MAC, if each schools' conference dissolved. That is simply not true. Iowa brings more to the table. Plain and simple.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Totally disagree that ISU would fit in the Big 10 or even big asked if the Big 12 would fold. The Big 10 would be looking for the best TV or fan support areas. This would be Oklahoma, Texas, with maybe West Virginia and OK State. Talk when the Big 12 was rumored to fold a few yrs. ago was ISU would have to go to the Mountain West. This time if the Big 12 were to fold I could see ISU going to the MAC, Mountain West, or the American Conference. With the Big 10 having the pick of the Big 12 it sure wouldn't be ISU.

I think you misinterpret what I'm saying. ISU's best fit of the remaining P5 would be with the B10, geographically and academically. They make less sense to join any of the others.

I am not supporting ISU to the Big Ten.

 

[grosie#2]

I think you misinterpret what I'm saying. ISU's best fit of the remaining P5 would be with the B10, geographically and academically. They make less sense to join any of the others.

I am not supporting ISU to the Big Ten.

It may be ISU's wish to join the Big 10 if the Big 12 folds, but the Big 10 will never ask them. So what I'm saying is they have limited options. The Mountain West, MAC, and the American conference.

 

[MTHawkeyes43]

You implied that Iowa and Iowa State were of equal desirability and would both land in the same place, the MAC, if each schools' conference dissolved. That is simply not true. Iowa brings more to the table. Plain and simple.

So you would say that all MAC schools are of equal value? You read that in, I never insinuated nor do I believe that. Sorry do not hang that notion on me.

 

[seiowaisufan]

You people have been hoping for Big 12 to split up and destroy ISU for the last 10 years, it's not going to happen and here is why.
1. All of the schools have signed their media rights to the conference for the next 5-7 years, no conference is going to take a school when their rights to show them on tv are owned by the Big 12.
2. Academics do matter, not just football, its the college presidents, not the AD's that have the final say and do the voting. In the Big 12 right now there are three school at have AAU accreditation, those schools are Texas, Kansas and ISU. If you are not an AAU school, and not Notre Dame, you are not getting in.
3. The BOR of each state will make the final decision on where each state school goes, Oklahoma said in the last round, that where they go, OSU will go with them. The Big 10 will not take OSU, academically they are horrible, not going to happen. Will the BOR of Kansas let KU leave the conference and destroy the athletic program at KSU, when the governor of the state is a KSU graduate? I really doubt it.

I read a lot about how and why ISU should go to the MAC or the Mountain West, so they can win more games. But doing so would destroy ISU, the lack of money those conferences schools get is about 20 million less than ISU is receiving now, not going to happen.

The biggest reason why ISU will never be in the Big 10 is that the conference has the state covered by having Iowa, therefore, the conference will not bring in new money by choosing them. Which is true, but the opposite is also true for other conferences, ISU would bring in a state of a little over 3 million, BTN as shown it does not matter if you do not watch, or not a fan, everyone pays. So a conference like the PAC 10 may look at ISU in a different light. 3 million people to charge more money for. The PAC 10 also will never look at four schools in the current Big 12 because of their low academic scores, W. Virginia, Texas Tech, K-State and O-state. None of those four would get an invite without their sister in-state school.
W. Virginia has pleaded with the ACC to be invited in the past, but each time were passed over because of low scores, but now they will take them? Not going to happen. ISU will be fine if the Big 12 breaks up, they are an AAU school, with a decent men's and woman's BB team, and a very loyal fan base that buys tickets.

 

[SigMaintHawk]

Sorry if it has already been mentioned in this thread.....Sounds like Cincy is a candidate to join the B12....

 

[Herkuleez]

ISU will be fine if the Big 12 breaks up, they are an AAU school, with a decent men's and woman's BB team, and a very loyal fan base that buys tickets.

 

[whatsup13579er]

Here are my Big XII likely landing spots:
Texas: PAC12
Baylor: PAC12
TT: ?
TCU: ?
OU: SEC
OK St: SEC
Kansas: ACC
KSU: ACC
WVU: ?
ISU: ACC

In my Big XII dissolve scenario, the B1G poaches 2 schools from the ACC leaving them with 13 members. The ACC values KU's and ISU's basketball tradition and AAU status and brings them in and the Kansas BOR forces KSU to go with KU. This puts the ACC at 15 teams and ND.

Texas picks the PAC12 as a better academic conference and to expand their West coast presence in recruiting and Baylor (or TT or TCU) tags along. The PAC12 is satisfied with their haul and stops at 14.

SEC values football above all else and gets OU and OK St and puts them at 16. They don't need any more teams in Texas so they stop at 16.

I think ISU needs to hope that the B1G poaches 2 teams from the ACC. This leaves them with 3 open spots to get to 16. If the B1G takes 1 ACC and Vandy, I see KU/KSU going to the ACC and SEC brings in another one of the Texas schools.

 

[WhiteSoxClone]

No one, not even the Big 10, is taking any ACC teams for a while. The ACC schools have all signed their television rights over to the conference until 2027, making them virtually valueless to another conference until then.

 

[And1Hawk]

You people have been hoping for Big 12 to split up and destroy ISU for the last 10 years, it's not going to happen and here is why.
1. All of the schools have signed their media rights to the conference for the next 5-7 years, no conference is going to take a school when their rights to show them on tv are owned by the Big 12.
2. Academics do matter, not just football, its the college presidents, not the AD's that have the final say and do the voting. In the Big 12 right now there are three school at have AAU accreditation, those schools are Texas, Kansas and ISU. If you are not an AAU school, and not Notre Dame, you are not getting in.
3. The BOR of each state will make the final decision on where each state school goes, Oklahoma said in the last round, that where they go, OSU will go with them. The Big 10 will not take OSU, academically they are horrible, not going to happen. Will the BOR of Kansas let KU leave the conference and destroy the athletic program at KSU, when the governor of the state is a KSU graduate? I really doubt it.
.

Although the grant of rights provides some protection it is a myth that it prevents a school from leaving and bringing their rights with them. See Maryland for an example. What it does provide for is some REASONABLE damages to be paid. See Maryland again for an example of a school under a GOR. If the B1G wants a Big 12 school then they will pay the damages because it will be recouped over time by the value of adding the school. The schools could elect also to toss in 1-2 million each and/or forgoe that much TV revenue collectively to pay for someone. Lots of options. Not saying the B1G wants a Big 12 team, but that GOR is not the complete cover you think it is.

Second OK has already said it has permission to move without OSU. The preference would be to go together but it's not a mandate. Same with KU - KSU.

 

[WhiteSoxClone]

Although the grant of rights provides some protection it is a myth that it prevents a school from leaving and bringing their rights with them. See Maryland for an example. What it does provide for is some REASONABLE damages to be paid. See Maryland again for an example of a school under a GOR. If the B1G wants a Big 12 school then they will pay the damages because it will be recouped over time by the value of adding the school. The schools could elect also to toss in 1-2 million each and/or forgoe that much TV revenue collectively to pay for someone. Lots of options. Not saying the B1G wants a Big 12 team, but that GOR is not the complete cover you think it is.

Second OK has already said it has permission to move without OSU. The preference would be to go together but it's not a mandate. Same with KU - KSU.

Maryland left before the grant of rights. When Maryland left an exit fee was in place. The GOR replaced the exit fee specifically because it is a much stronger incentive. There is no "buy out" from the GOR.

 

[whatsup13579er]

No one, not even the Big 10, is taking any ACC teams for a while. The ACC schools have all signed their television rights over to the conference until 2027, making them virtually valueless to another conference until then.

The ACC may have their TV rights, but it doesn't make them valueless. Lets say the B1G snags Georgia Tech and Virginia. The B1G would pay the ACC for the right to broadcast the games on BTN. However, BTN would push to be on the basic TV packages. Georgia has a population over 10 million and the Virginia has over 8 million. That is a lot of added tv sets to help offset the costs of the ACC GOR. It sounds like you know a lot more about the GOR than I do but this seems like a good way to circumvent a school having no TV value after leaving the ACC.

The bigger value to the B1G is the research dollars anyway. The amount of money tied up in the AAU dwarfs the athletic money that comes in.

 

[SoDakHawk]

Clone fans just need to face it, if Oklahoma doesn't get what it wants, and soon, presumably something gets started on their three demands next meeting, they are going to start looking for ways out of the Big 12. They are in a position where they will have three suitors in the B1G, SEC, and PAC lined up to offer them a spot and they will go with what fits them best. If that happens the Big 12 is kaput. Texas will not stay in that conference as it would be situated, Kansas would see the instability and seek other options for its prized basketball program, the rest of the sports properties in that conference are not desirable enough to call their own shot and will be at the mercy of which way the winds blow. I think the remainders will have the common sense to band together and reform the Big 12 adding members like Col St, Utah St, and UNLV. They would be wise to look west for the bulk of their prospects where there is only one P5 conference to contend with. They could also look at Cincy, or Memphis to bridge the gap to WVU. IMO, I would look towards major state institutions rather than city schools.

 

[WhiteSoxClone]

The ACC may have their TV rights, but it doesn't make them valueless. Lets say the B1G snags Georgia Tech and Virginia. The B1G would pay the ACC for the right to broadcast the games on BTN. However, BTN would push to be on the basic TV packages. Georgia has a population over 10 million and the Virginia has over 8 million. That is a lot of added tv sets to help offset the costs of the ACC GOR. It sounds like you know a lot more about the GOR than I do but this seems like a good way to circumvent a school having no TV value after leaving the ACC.

The bigger value to the B1G is the research dollars anyway. The amount of money tied up in the AAU dwarfs the athletic money that comes in.

That's a good solution IF you can get the ACC to play ball. I think that would work in 7 or 8 years when the deal is winding down, and the ACC might think "better to get something now then nothing when our GORs deal expires in 3 years." But right now I think having a stable conference is probably more valuable to the ACC than any amount of money the Big 10 might be willing to offer.

But who knows. I'm definitely no expert on predicting what might happen in conference expansions. I thought there would be no way Texas A&M would want to give up their rivalry with Texas, or that Nebraska would want to give up the fertile Texas recruiting grounds and almost automatic Big XII North championship, so what do I know? Not much.

 

[WhiteSoxClone]

Clone fans just need to face it, if Oklahoma doesn't get what it wants, and soon, presumably something gets started on their three demands next meeting, they are going to start looking for ways out of the Big 12.

I think most people accept Texas' (and ironically Nebraska's) failure to accept a united conference model instead of a school-by-school model is what got the Big XII to where it is, and that if the Big XII doesn't follow the Big 10 and ACC models going forward, that its a doomed conference eventually anyway. So I think most of us, at least that have thought this through, think that Oklahoma is in the right and hope that it gets its way. Best to try to twist Texas' arm now when their stock is (relatively) down.

 

[whatsup13579er]

That's a good solution IF you can get the ACC to play ball. I think that would work in 7 or 8 years when the deal is winding down, and the ACC might think "better to get something now then nothing when our GORs deal expires in 3 years." But right now I think having a stable conference is probably more valuable to the ACC than any amount of money the Big 10 might be willing to offer.

But who knows. I'm definitely no expert on predicting what might happen in conference expansions. I thought there would be no way Texas A&M would want to give up their rivalry with Texas, or that Nebraska would want to give up the fertile Texas recruiting grounds and almost automatic Big XII North championship, so what do I know? Not much.

I agree that no one is leaving the ACC anytime soon. The only way anyone even thinks about it would be if OU's strong arming of the Big 12 causes the conference to dissolve and all hell breaks loose with conference realignment. I do think you will see the B1G take a run at an ACC school or two towards the end of their GOR when the 'penalty' for leaving isn't as severe.

 

[WhiteSoxClone]

I agree that no one is leaving the ACC anytime soon. The only way anyone even thinks about it would be if OU's strong arming of the Big 12 causes the conference to dissolve and all hell breaks loose with conference realignment. I do think you will see the B1G take a run at an ACC school or two towards the end of their GOR when the 'penalty' for leaving isn't as severe.

For the record, I hate the conference expansions. And I'm not just saying this as an Iowa State. I'm also a Hawkeye fan, and I absolutely hate that the Hawks rarely play Michigan, Ohio State, or the other original schools in the eastern half of the conference. I know why it is the way it is now (TV revenue), but I hate what its done to college football and traditional, local rivalries. As college football becomes more like the NFL, I wonder why its worth watching an inferior product (college v. pros) as the things that made college football unique continue to disappear.

 

[5Fan5]

For the record, I hate the conference expansions. And I'm not just saying this as an Iowa State. I'm also a Hawkeye fan, and I absolutely hate that the Hawks rarely play Michigan, Ohio State, or the other original schools in the eastern half of the conference. I know why it is the way it is now (TV revenue), but I hate what its done to college football and traditional, local rivalries. As college football becomes more like the NFL, I wonder why its worth watching an inferior product (college v. pros) as the things that made college football unique continue to disappear.

Much of the accountability for these things lies no further away than the big xii conference. Sure other leagues dabbled in expansion (Big Ten adding Penn State circa 1993, later the Pac Ten and the SEC added schools), but the big xii back in 1996 touted itself as the model to be for major college athletics. The trouble was that football (the primary athletic endeavor) was a flop in the format presented by the big xii. There was too much weight in the South and way too little in the North and schools such as Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri and A&M decided to look at opportunities elsewhere. Texas, on the other end of the spectrum, was determined to have it their way all the time and what you see now is the result.

College football will survive - just not in a form that was in place over two decades ago. The ideal model is four conferences of sixteen teams each. The divisional championship(s) for each conference becomes the de facto quarterfinals of a playoff with the semis and finals taking place as they have now for two years. Of the existing Power 5 conferences, there are those that are poised and prepared to expand (if and when needed) and those that are not near as likely to remain or expand.

 

[seiowaisufan]

Although the grant of rights provides some protection it is a myth that it prevents a school from leaving and bringing their rights with them. See Maryland for an example. What it does provide for is some REASONABLE damages to be paid. See Maryland again for an example of a school under a GOR. If the B1G wants a Big 12 school then they will pay the damages because it will be recouped over time by the value of adding the school. The schools could elect also to toss in 1-2 million each and/or forgoe that much TV revenue collectively to pay for someone. Lots of options. Not saying the B1G wants a Big 12 team, but that GOR is not the complete cover you think it is.

Second OK has already said it has permission to move without OSU. The preference would be to go together but it's not a mandate. Same with KU - KSU.

 

[seiowaisufan]

Please give us a link that shows that Oklahoma has stated its not tied to Ok. State as well as one for the Kansas schools?

 

[5Fan5]

Please give us a link that shows that Oklahoma has stated its not tied to Ok. State as well as one for the Kansas schools?

Do some research on your own... it is out there.

At one time, OU and OSU where tied together at the hip. Not so any longer. Boren has drawn a line in the sand for the big xii to consider and possibly react toward. If not, then all we see if he is bluffing or simply forewarning of what is to eventually come.

 

[seiowaisufan]

Do some research on your own... it is out there.

At one time, OU and OSU where tied together at the hip. Not so any longer. Boren has drawn a line in the sand for the big xii to consider and possibly react toward. If not, then all we see if he is bluffing or simply forewarning of what is to eventually come.

I have researched it on both Oklahoma and Kansas rival boards, its not there. The Kansas board has a lot of "its not fair, the BOR do not like us" talk, but no one in a position of authority saying that the schools have been told they can go without the other state school.
Boren is just positioning Oklahoma against Texas, he wants a national tv network, nothing wrong with that. The conference can now have a football championship game, so that is already there. On Sat. radio the idea was brought up of having the Big 12 champion play Notre Dame for the championship, since the big 12 already has a round robin schedule. Its an interesting idea, but has little chance of happening. As for expansion, it will be the ACC that is gobbled up, The big 10 takes Virginia and N. Carolina, SEC takes N. Carolina St. and Virginia Tech, allowing the big 12 to pick and choose the rest. Virginia and N. Carolina have a lot more people, therefore TV's then Oklahoma.

 

[And1Hawk]

I have researched it on both Oklahoma and Kansas rival boards, its not there. The Kansas board has a lot of "its not fair, the BOR do not like us" talk, but no one in a position of authority saying that the schools have been told they can go without the other state school.
Boren is just positioning Oklahoma against Texas, he wants a national tv network, nothing wrong with that. The conference can now have a football championship game, so that is already there. On Sat. radio the idea was brought up of having the Big 12 champion play Notre Dame for the championship, since the big 12 already has a round robin schedule. Its an interesting idea, but has little chance of happening. As for expansion, it will be the ACC that is gobbled up, The big 10 takes Virginia and N. Carolina, SEC takes N. Carolina St. and Virginia Tech, allowing the big 12 to pick and choose the rest. Virginia and N. Carolina have a lot more people, therefore TV's then Oklahoma.

http://www.crimsonandcreammachine.c...homa-and-oklahoma-state-really-a-package-deal

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...ren-says-school-interest-multiple-conferences

 

[H4wkfan4life]

For the record, I hate the conference expansions. And I'm not just saying this as an Iowa State. I'm also a Hawkeye fan, and I absolutely hate that the Hawks rarely play Michigan, Ohio State, or the other original schools in the eastern half of the conference. I know why it is the way it is now (TV revenue), but I hate what its done to college football and traditional, local rivalries. As college football becomes more like the NFL, I wonder why its worth watching an inferior product (college v. pros) as the things that made college football unique continue to disappear.

Amen!

Can't believe I just liked a post by a sox/clone. I feel so dirty


As for OU, sound like the kids these days aren't the only ones feeling entitled and better than the world....apparently schools are taking the same approach to....
Sure hope they don't come our way. Give us baylor and let the sec have those whine asses.

 

[seiowaisufan]

http://www.crimsonandcreammachine.c...homa-and-oklahoma-state-really-a-package-deal

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...ren-says-school-interest-multiple-conferences

The first link is from a Sooner board, the second one is from 2011. Does anyone have anything current, like in the last year, saying that Oklahoma and Okl. State are not linked. At the last go round when it looked like five teams were leaving for the Pac 12, the Commish from the Pac 12 wanted to switch Kansas for Okl. State, and Oklahoma said "where we go, the Cowboys would be going with us." Show me a link that anything has changed from a person in power, not some blog from a pro Sooner web site.

 

[And1Hawk]

The first link is from a Sooner board, the second one is from 2011. Does anyone have anything current, like in the last year, saying that Oklahoma and Okl. State are not linked. At the last go round when it looked like five teams were leaving for the Pac 12, the Commish from the Pac 12 wanted to switch Kansas for Okl. State, and Oklahoma said "where we go, the Cowboys would be going with us." Show me a link that anything has changed from a person in power, not some blog from a pro Sooner web site.

Why does it matter if it's a sooner board? It's an ESPN article with a quote from a source close to the situation discussing what you are trying to deny and the other article clearly outlines the setup of Oklahoma the state and there is no constitutional law forcing these schools to go together. None, zero, nada, zip. In fact they have not always been in the same conference. They do not even have the same setup with a BOR according to the article.

I'm not saying Oklahoma is going to leave but if there is a single spot available in the SEC or B1G you had better believe they are going to pursue it and not spend sleepless nights worrying about OSU.

The GOR is going to be a hurdle but not impossible to work through. A price will be negotiated to buy out. There is legal precedent on buy out prices already established. Oklahoma could also call the Big 12's bluff because the mere fact they are leaving could make Texas or others jump also rendering the league insolvent. Remaining members could turn to litigation but some may think twice about going that route if they have any hopes of landing in one of the remaining power 5 leagues. Which league is going to be excited to extend an offer to a suit-happy institution? A move alone probably collapses the league.

Boren's rattling his saber with confidence. He's no dummy as this has been well thought out and discussed on their end. He may even have a silent offer to join another league already so time to play their cards. They either get the changes they want in their league or they go to X.

 

[seiowaisufan]

Why does it matter if it's a sooner board? It's an ESPN article with a quote from a source close to the situation discussing what you are trying to deny and the other article clearly outlines the setup of Oklahoma the state and there is no constitutional law forcing these schools to go together. None, zero, nada, zip. In fact they have not always been in the same conference. They do not even have the same setup with a BOR according to the article.

I'm not saying Oklahoma is going to leave but if there is a single spot available in the SEC or B1G you had better believe they are going to pursue it and not spend sleepless nights worrying about OSU.

The GOR is going to be a hurdle but not impossible to work through. A price will be negotiated to buy out. There is legal precedent on buy out prices already established. Oklahoma could also call the Big 12's bluff because the mere fact they are leaving could make Texas or others jump also rendering the league insolvent. Remaining members could turn to litigation but some may think twice about going that route if they have any hopes of landing in one of the remaining power 5 leagues. Which league is going to be excited to extend an offer to a suit-happy institution? A move alone probably collapses the league.

Boren's rattling his saber with confidence. He's no dummy as this has been well thought out and discussed on their end. He may even have a silent offer to join another league already so time to play their cards. They either get the changes they want in their league or they go to X.

It matters because both links are from 2011, the college football landscape has changed a lot in the past five years. Put yourself in the Big 10 comish shoes for a second, and stop trying to come up with a way to screw Iowa State. You can try and take a school like Oklahoma with a population of 3.87 million or go after Virginia 8.32 and North Carolina with 9.98 million. Now which state brings more into the conference? By going after the ACC and breaking it up, it also allows the SEC to move into those same two states. Its the smart play and the one that will occur. Now Oklahoma and say we are leaving and I am sure that the SEC would take both them and Ok. State with no questions asked, but will they when they can not have them on tv for the next 5-7 years? Are they going to try and buy those rights from the Big 12, and if so, why would the Big 12 sell them? It just does not make sense.

 

[seiowaisufan]

Much of the accountability for these things lies no further away than the big xii conference. Sure other leagues dabbled in expansion (Big Ten adding Penn State circa 1993, later the Pac Ten and the SEC added schools), but the big xii back in 1996 touted itself as the model to be for major college athletics. The trouble was that football (the primary athletic endeavor) was a flop in the format presented by the big xii. There was too much weight in the South and way too little in the North and schools such as Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri and A&M decided to look at opportunities elsewhere. Texas, on the other end of the spectrum, was determined to have it their way all the time and what you see now is the result.

College football will survive - just not in a form that was in place over two decades ago. The ideal model is four conferences of sixteen teams each. The divisional championship(s) for each conference becomes the de facto quarterfinals of a playoff with the semis and finals taking place as they have now for two years. Of the existing Power 5 conferences, there are those that are poised and prepared to expand (if and when needed) and those that are not near as likely to remain or expand.

5 I think you have the reason why those four school left all wrong, and here is why, look at each school, why would they leave a conference when the three in the Northern half and a great chance to win it each year? Colorado always wanted to be in the PAC 12, when the invitation was given to the five Big 12 schools, and then fell apart, the Buffs jumped at the chance, they saw themselves more a Pac 12 school than a big 12 school. Texas A & M, was looking to get out of the shadow of Texas, the AD and former coach were pushing for the school to join the SEC when the SWC broke up, they saw their chance and took it. Nebraska was pissed at the league for not allowing particle qualifiers, Big Red had made a living taking those kids, keeping them eligible and winning National Championships. When they asked the two Kansas schools and ISU to join them, those three schools said will you vote for equal revenue sharing, Nebraska refused so all three schools sided with Texas. As for Missouri, they saw that they could be left out if the Big 12 imploded and took the first deal they received. Read the St. Louis paper at the time this all went down, the President of Missouri wanted the Big 10, the coaching and Ad wanted the SEC for recruiting purposes, so they chose the SEC. I am sure that they rest of the schools did not like the deal with Texas, but its better to deal with the devil you know than one you do not. You also have to remember that after Nebraska left, ISU and the Kansas schools agreed to give a portion of their tv money to Oklahoma, Texas and AM if they stayed. Oklahoma and Texas turned down the money, AM said they would take it.

 

[And1Hawk]

It matters because both links are from 2011, the college football landscape has changed a lot in the past five years. Put yourself in the Big 10 comish shoes for a second, and stop trying to come up with a way to screw Iowa State. You can try and take a school like Oklahoma with a population of 3.87 million or go after Virginia 8.32 and North Carolina with 9.98 million. Now which state brings more into the conference? By going after the ACC and breaking it up, it also allows the SEC to move into those same two states. Its the smart play and the one that will occur. Now Oklahoma and say we are leaving and I am sure that the SEC would take both them and Ok. State with no questions asked, but will they when they can not have them on tv for the next 5-7 years? Are they going to try and buy those rights from the Big 12, and if so, why would the Big 12 sell them? It just does not make sense.

That's funny that you are on an Iowa message board to thwart an attempt by Iowa fans to screw ISU when it's your conference member who is rattling his saber for his school regarding the deficiencies of your league. But it's our fault - Ok.

The B1G may stay pat with no more new members. It may take more than 2 adding 2 to the West and 2 to the East division. No one knows outside of the folks who make those decisions. Oklahoma & Kansas are possibilities should they become available and/or request admission.

Here's another article speculating about the lack of strength of the GOR.

http://sportspolitico.com/2015/02/16/will-grant-of-rights-protect-big12-from-future-raids/

The point many of us are making is the shake up is not done. Boren's demands could be a good thing for the Big12 but his school is obviously drawing a line in the sand and must be ready to move on if they do not get what they want. If they do elect to move on, the league could become insolvent very quickly. I am sure schools like ISU have contingency plans in place for such an event?

 

[seiowaisufan]

I never said it was Iowa's fans fault, I said that a lot of Iowa fans are hoping that the big 12 implodes and ISU is left out of a power five conference. And as for saying it on an Iowa fan board, does it really matter? As an ISU fan, I am not allowed to have an opinion. I have not attacked Iowa in any way. Are there not repeated threads on this site and other Iowa sites that revel with glee at the thought of ISU being sent to the MAC or Mountain West? To you point about the GOR being legal, it would be up to a court of law to decide that, not you or I. Why would a conference want the headache of getting involved with something like that. Maybe the president of Oklahoma has a back shop deal already set up or just as likely he see this as a chance to push Texas and ESPN into making the long horn network into the Big 12 network. People on this board are always talking about which schools will bring 40 million or so into the conference like Maryland did, why would the big 12 be any different. They will never take Houston, they bring nothing they already have, the state of Texas, Cincinnati would be a good get, paired with W. Virginia, but who else brings in enough money so that the current schools would not get less?

 

[And1Hawk]

I never said it was Iowa's fans fault, I said that a lot of Iowa fans are hoping that the big 12 implodes and ISU is left out of a power five conference. And as for saying it on an Iowa fan board, does it really matter? As an ISU fan, I am not allowed to have an opinion. I have not attacked Iowa in any way. Are there not repeated threads on this site and other Iowa sites that revel with glee at the thought of ISU being sent to the MAC or Mountain West? To you point about the GOR being legal, it would be up to a court of law to decide that, not you or I. Why would a conference want the headache of getting involved with something like that. Maybe the president of Oklahoma has a back shop deal already set up or just as likely he see this as a chance to push Texas and ESPN into making the long horn network into the Big 12 network. People on this board are always talking about which schools will bring 40 million or so into the conference like Maryland did, why would the big 12 be any different. They will never take Houston, they bring nothing they already have, the state of Texas, Cincinnati would be a good get, paired with W. Virginia, but who else brings in enough money so that the current schools would not get less?

Many but not all Iowa fans want to see the Big12 implode no doubt. That's just the reality of the way the rivalry has gone. The ISU AD & fans have taken a lot of pot shots at the U of Iowa. They have leveraged the anti-Iowa thing to the max. Then they expect the Iows fans to cry a river of tears if ISU gets left out in the cold? If there was an atmosphere of competition but mutual respect that would not be the case.

I am questioning the legitimacy of the GOR and noting the interesting saber rattling of Boren. It' appears to be a calculated end game. That could be a good or bad outcome for the Big12. I think they would prefer to stay but only under the best possible terms.

I would not cry if Oklahoma and Kansas joined the B1G someday. KU stinks in football but bball could be a fun add. The rekindling of Oklahoma v Nebraska would be cool and Oklahoma coming to Kinnick every other year would be fun to see. I think if those 2 schools made serious overtures, they might be accepted. Academics are the big issue with Oklahoma but the B1G might put them on working plan to improve. I do think it's interesting the timing of the saber rattling with the B1G TV contracts coming due in the near future. Probably just a coincidence but interesting just before a negotiation based on your membership assets.

Yes the Big12 needs teams but there seems to be difficulty finding teams that can add true value. Cincy is logical and a good program but about 3-4 pegs down from OSU in that state in terms of interest. That's the rub with some of the remaining targets.