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NLWC Slush Fund
- Thread starter xJakeRobertsx
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Hey look, wee willie is here with Caels manhood running off his chin spouting pro ped state shit that only him and his ped state buddies find funny. Go away willie, your place is on your favorite teams wrestling site. We don't want you here.
Yet, better collegiate credentials than all Iowa wrestlers (except Spencer) combined, in that same time frame.
Don’t forget running the go to web site during B1G and NCAA.
$178k in travel seems like a lot of $’s for a few old guys to get reduced travel. If you are saying that it only gets reduced travel expenses then that is really an interesting expense.
IT took Guts to do this, He put everything into that move and when it did not work- I knew it was over as he exerted everything (Physical and Emotional) to make a statement. I loved the attempt-- next time he knew better as the different result showed.
who said i have a 'nonchalant' view of their recruiting? they recruit very well.
the topic of this thread (i guess i have to remind you) is 'Slush Fund' and overt or insinuated allegations of recruiting.
if you're out to prove penn state recruits better, congrats.
you can't extrapolate this, can you?
it's not about rankings. it's about the money. you know, the thing you wasted your time on reporting to compliance offices, lmao.
If PSU brought in 2 recruits in the Top 20 at 60% each and Lehigh brought in 6 top 100's at 25%, Lehigh spent more.
PSU isn't necessarily spending more, they're recruiting better, which is their freakin job.
Tony Ramos took 3rd and 2nd at NCAA's and was on 30% scholly as a SR at iowa. and yet if you buy the rhetoric here, Carter Starocci is on a full, got a porsche, nightly filet mignon and a 5 year post college NLWC position.
Top 100 recruits winning the championships HAHAHAHAHAHA wow you are dumb or maybe you are just disingenuous
I forgot, by the way, when did Kemerer win a national championship? Last I recall Mark went to three finals in three years and won a championship. Kemerer one final in 4 years and no championships.
he just reiterated that's not what he did. You retarded?
No, disingenuous seems to be what you are wee Willie.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Willie you're all over the place. I was replying to MSU who said he agrees with everything you said in the post that he was quoting except for your nonchalant view of PSU recruiting. I think he's spot on. Iowa fans have been saying that PSU has done the best at recruiting the last decade by a good margin. Any recruiting class ranking that ranks a team with a bunch of 30-100 recruits above a team with 1-2 top 10 can't be taken seriously.
PSU has gotten more top 10 overall recruits than any other school in the last decade and I imagine it's not that close.
Who gives a fk if NC state had a recruiting class with 15 guys ranked 30-100. We all know how NCAA tournament scoring works. I thought this concept was well understood by now?
Unless scholarship distributions become public, it's all speculation. I believe your claim about Ramos competing at 30% scholly his senior year is true, but how many national champs are doing that? I suppose it helps if a school can promise them big RTC money in 9 months after they graduate. That's the shady component wrestling fans have been inquiring about for years.
Don't get mad at fans for asking questions and scratching their head. If they want to squelch the speculation, then open up the books. There's a lot of money moving around in collegiate athletics and it's all under the table with no NCAA oversight.
I stand by presumed innocence until evidence of guilt, but that doesn't mean people can't ask questions.
If ya want to shut people up, do some journalism and report the facts to us. I might even sub to rokfin.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Specifically said I inquired. I didn't report anything as I have nothing to report. I learned a lot from the inquiry. Namely that the NCAA doesn't oversee anything regarding camp pay. And all of these compliance offices are responsible for self reporting their violations and do not want to answer any questions from the public despite what their mission statements claim.
It took all of 10 mins btw. Real time waster it was.
it's not me that's all over the place, it's this thread.
How bout we...idk...stick to the topic/title of the thread.
every 'you're disingenuous" response is because i'm sticking to the topic (cheating) and you guys are talking a recruiting efficacy.
your point regarding rankings is faulty 1) b/c i never did that and 2) that addresses recruiting efficacy.
and my point about 30-100 is very germane. NOT IN PERFORMANCE! (you guys can't seem to grasp that).
but IN BUDGET. They cost money, ya know.
see the PSU-Lehigh hypothetical.
it's not rocket science and yet there's a thread every single off season about cheating and slush funds.
You do realize I responded to specific things YOU posted in this thread, right? Also, I CLEARLY answered the main topic of the thread in saying I DO NOT believe they have been cheating.
I don’t see how you can post all your talking points from your viewpoint, but the response to those are being “all over the place”? I guess, Don’t post talking points if you don’t want responses to them....
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Willie why do you think that there is speculation of funny money? The speculation didn't begin just because NLWC received a massive donation. It started because the unprecedented sustained level of recruiting. And the rankings (or more accurately - "quality of recruit") matter because a dude ranked 50th can't demand a full ride from all of the top programs in the way that a dude ranked #1 can.
Sure, all of these top 10 recruits could be like Ramos and take a 30% scholarship at PSU when they could be earning 100% at any other top school, but that doesn't really pass the common sense test unless they know they're going to be paid back in the RTC, summer camps, etc.
Idk why the **** Ramos would agree to 30% as a senior unless he knew he'd be getting paid from the HWC after. That's the gray area that we're questioning. If post graduation promises ("we're not saying we'll take care of you after you graduate but most of our wrestlers in your position get signed by our RTC for x salary") are allowed, then certainly the school with the largest RTC funding has a significant competitive advantage in a sport with scholarship restrictions in place for the sole purpose of maintaining competitive fairness.
Do any first round NFL draft pick college football players agree to a 30% scholarship their senior year in order to help their program because they know they'll be paid big in less than a year? I have no idea, genuinely asking.
There's definitely a lot of gray in college athletics. What's right/wrong, fair/unfair, cheating/wisely taking advantage of the rules? Idk the answers, but I don't see any issues with asking the questions and having the conversations.
I still can't believe that Hall wasn't able to get the fall there, let alone that he didn't score, let alone that Kemerer ended up getting the only points in the sequence. This match, along with the Bull / Cenzo match before it, was just fun to watch, and it's a damn shame we didn't get the rubber match at nationals that year.
Not true! that was a Rumor Marks Parents did not pay for all his school..
VTECH was doing great until the Brands screwed them and took all their studs with them. HMMMMM
I wonder quite often who are the buyers and who are the sellers in college wrestling. In your 2nd paragraph, vodka, it seems pretty clear that you feel the coach/school is always the buyer, such that they must bid high to win. It seems to me that a good share of elite wrestlers have major support systems that have always provided and provided. Is it possible for them that they’re the buyers, and they’re essentially bidding high (meaning lower aid) to get a spot at the elite schools?
1. The president of wrestling for life should be smart enough to stay out of these conversations.
2. Willie should be a journalist and find out how much top schools pay their athletes for camps. Is there a limit? Do all schools have the same limit, or is it up to each respective compliance department to determine what is fair compensation?
First things first, Vodka, thanks for getting a healthy convo back on track.
PSU's recruiting isn't THAT far ahead. Ultimately it's math. 9.9 and how they fit into it. Elite guys are taking less to go to the PSU, Iowa, tOSU's, and OKST's of the world.
While i can't tell you how much RBY or Alex Marinelli is on, i literally just gave you a plausible scenario vs. Lehigh. You DO REALIZE that PSU has had a really different approach to recruiting right? Same as tOSU? 2 or 3 superstars a year. You DO REALIZE that PSU's roster is basically studs and scrubs, right?
I'd guess there's not more than 15 kids on that roster that get a nickel.
Take PSU's 10 starters and give em all 75% (much more than they are getting) and PSU still has 2.4 to play around with.
Kerkvliet's dad is a freakin CSuite exec at target. you think he needs money?
There's more Ramoses on top tier team rosters than there are full ride guys. full ride guys at top programs nearly don't exist. 30% is really really low but i promise you there are tons of NCAA finalists on sub 70%.
You don't think Caleb Rathjen took a discount to go to Iowa? You don't think Ybarra or Schriever would have gotten more money from a lesser program. C'mon. you know this.
FB and BB are all full rides in DI. you can't take less.
for sure! i posted on here several times that if PSU or anyone else were bending rules i wouldnt fall over in shock.
my whole thesis in these threads has not been that no one is cheating, but that there are very clearly paths to making it work on the up and up.
idk the breakdown of schollies. the wrestling world would sure be a more exciting place if they were public.
what i do know is that these kids aren't getting what you think they are.
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Willie and Pyles have repeatedly said that they are not journalists when it's convenient for them to do so and it's understandable that they wouldn't want to look into something affects their own livelihoods.
Similarly USA Wrestling isn't going to investigate themselves. So we're left with a situation where everybody knows what's going on, but there's no remedy except to put an * next to P$U's titles.
Willie certainly knows what happened with Mark Hall; The last minute switch when his dad suddenly was offered $ucce$$ in Happy Valley. All it took was telling Mark that the Midwest covers much more ground than the geographers claim.
Kyle could reveal his six figure NLWC contract or continue to claim that being a 3xer and Olympic Gold medalist wasn't enough success for him.
I remember when a coach was fired for paying $200 out of his own pocket for travel expenses. Now those day are gone with multi-millionaire donors.
Similarly USA Wrestling isn't going to investigate themselves. So we're left with a situation where everybody knows what's going on, but there's no remedy except to put an * next to P$U's titles.
Willie certainly knows what happened with Mark Hall; The last minute switch when his dad suddenly was offered $ucce$$ in Happy Valley. All it took was telling Mark that the Midwest covers much more ground than the geographers claim.
Kyle could reveal his six figure NLWC contract or continue to claim that being a 3xer and Olympic Gold medalist wasn't enough success for him.
I remember when a coach was fired for paying $200 out of his own pocket for travel expenses. Now those day are gone with multi-millionaire donors.
Not sure I buy schools commonly giving 25% to guys ranked below 50. The question isn't even about how PSU divides their scholarships it's how they can get that many elite guys to go there for way less than than the going rate for top 10 overall recruits. Even if you used the previously mentioned 60% number which is on the low side for blue chip recruits, many of which were out of state you would burn through all but 2 of the 9.9 on 13 guys on a 40 man roster.
In a nutshell, this article has scholarship equivalencies based on FOIA reports for most DI wrestling programs. PSU only gave $$ to 14 wrestlers, and used aid equivalency of 9.79 scholarships. Iowa gave money to 21 athletes and used equivalent of 10.34 scholarships. The article explains why that may appear more that the 9.9 allowed. PSU gives more money to fewer athlete, thus being attractive to high level kids who are good enough to get aid.
Scholarship Amounts
This website has collected some of the financial reports schools are required to file, and scholarship info is included.https://www.extrapointsmb.com/foia-directory/ Here are the scholarship amounts listed for the schools with wrestling. Youll see some are above 9.9 for what must be some sort of ...
board.themat.com
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. This might be the first good thing to come out of this thread.
Idk, the way I look at it is to view how many recruits a school has who come in and place top 4 (and especially top 2) as freshmen and sophomores (and especially as freshmen). Not all highly ranked recruits are equal.
If you look back at the last 10 years or so, PSU has lapped the field many times over in number of guys who come in and are one the top few steps of the podium immediately. In fact, I'd love to see an analysis over the last 10 years of number of freshman who finished top 4/top 2 at nationals by school. I'd be willing to bet PSU will be far and away the leader.
So when people come on here and boil down Bael's success to recruiting, it's pretty hard to argue because having so many guys who are able to come in and finish top4/top 2 suggests a massive lead in recruiting. And when that recruiting happens year after year and there is no regression to the mean, it's fair to ask whether anything suspicious is going on. Where there's smoke, there's often fire.
well then you don't know how this works. not to mention 60 percent for 13 guys with 2 left over is fuggin great.
For the 37th time, I am an ACC fan first and foremost. That said, I prefer Iowa among the top teams, and I like this board.
The Bael/ISU and Brands/VaTech situations were night and day different In fact, I sincerely question anyone who would describe them as analogous in any way except superficially.
But even putting aside how different those two situations are, let's play a game. Why don't you tell me the average NCAA finish for the 10 years before and after Bael left ISU for PSU, and then do the same for Va Tech (except before and after Brands left for Iowa). Then tell me what the + or - in average placings was for the period.
What a thread ...accusations >rebuttals...rebuttals thrown in with swipes at college athletes and then fake journalism that pretends to be journalism when its convenient.
Bottom line when it comes to infractions by teams..cheating/ payouts/ scandals/ performance enhancing drugs all happen in sports and sometimes it takes awhile to uncover the truth.
Real journalists like Lance Williams and Mark Fainaru-Wada who exposed Barry Bonds and the Balco labs took 7-8 years of undercover work with the help of Feds. So scandals can take a long while to come out.
Compliance department regulation is a joke and I know its pouring salt in the wound...but they allowed 15 f@#$%^& years of abuse and coverup by the same University who's being discussed now and by a fan base who still to this day denies their precious college can do no wrong!!
Bottom line when it comes to infractions by teams..cheating/ payouts/ scandals/ performance enhancing drugs all happen in sports and sometimes it takes awhile to uncover the truth.
Real journalists like Lance Williams and Mark Fainaru-Wada who exposed Barry Bonds and the Balco labs took 7-8 years of undercover work with the help of Feds. So scandals can take a long while to come out.
Compliance department regulation is a joke and I know its pouring salt in the wound...but they allowed 15 f@#$%^& years of abuse and coverup by the same University who's being discussed now and by a fan base who still to this day denies their precious college can do no wrong!!
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Carl is as greedy as it gets and greedy people do greedy things.
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