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No, we're not going to forget

Oh no I still got my stuff, I was waiting my turn. You were SO sure with your tough talk that I was "lying" and that it was "bullshit", I just wanted to see if you had a scientific basis behind your assertions. The ball is in your court so what are you going to do with it? I'll give you one more chance. If you post back one more time without it I'll assume you have absolutely nothing to back up your internet tough guy post.
And once again posting your complete lack of scientific acumen, you're requesting proof of a negative. That's not how it works. And I asserted nothing beyond a prediction of your next step.

And NOW you'll tell us injected aluminum takes some special path that is completely closed off to ingested aluminum because your Al claim was blown out of the water.

See? I can't address something you haven't yet claimed. Feel free to tell me that you no longer believe that nonsense or make the claim - as predicted (sheep are SO predictable) - and back it up.
 
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And once again posting your complete lack of scientific acumen, you're requestion proof of a negative. That's not how it works. And I asserted nothing beyond a prediction of your next step.



See? I can't address something you haven't yet claimed. Feel free to tell me that you no longer believe that nonsense or make the claim - as predicted (sheep are SO predictable) - and back it up.
Yep, you've got absolutely ZERO scientific basis for your assertion that we should treat IM injection exactly the same as ingestion, just as I thought. Thank you. It doesn't surprise me though because the NIH proved they couldn't find anything either, or anyone else for that matter that I've ever seen.

Might want to tone down your internet tough guy talk because you're on very shaky ground at this point, as you have been for quite some time now when we first hashed this out several years ago.

I'll post my stuff (again) that you've already seen when I get some time.
 
Yep, you've got absolutely ZERO scientific basis for your assertion that we should treat IM injection exactly the same as ingestion, just as I thought. Thank you. It doesn't surprise me though because the NIH proved they couldn't find anything either, or anyone else for that matter that I've ever seen.

Might want to tone down your internet tough guy talk because you're on very shaky ground at this point, as you have been for quite some time now when we first hashed this out several years ago.

I'll post my stuff (again) that you've already seen when I get some time.
Again, I asserted not one thing other than predicting what you would do next.

Looking forward to seeing your BS. Just don't post anything by Tomljenovic or Shaw...they already had to withdraw at least two papers for manipulated evidence. Of course, they have no idea how it could have happened. Sounds a lot like your patron saint, Andrew.
 
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Again, I asserted not one thing other than predicting what you would do next.

Looking forward to seeing your BS. Just don't post anything by Tomljenovic or Shaw...they already had to withdraw at least two papers for manipulated evidence. Of course, they have no idea how it could have happened. Sounds a lot like your patron saint, Andrew.
Here's the NIH's admission that they couldn't locate any studies that they felt established the safety of aluminum adjuvants: https://icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/20190719-HHS-Final-Response-IR0084-Appeal.pdf

So yes there's little wonder why you couldn't locate any ;)

Here's a white paper that pieces the science together to explain how aluminum adjuvants could cause autism:

Gherardi et. al. study explains that, and how aluminum ends up in the brain:

"Al was weakly eliminated in the urine (6% on day 28) and was detected in lymph nodes, spleen, liver, and
brain (13)."
"We successively performed i.m. injections of alum-containing vaccine, fluorescent latex beads, and fluorescent nanohybrids coated with precipitated alum (5). These materials were quickly captured by macrophages, a large
proportion of which cleaved the injected muscle, mainly within immune cells, reaching the draining lymph nodes. Particle-laden cells then escaped the lymphatic system to reach the blood circulation, presumably via the thoracic duct. In so-doing, they were able to reach distant organs such as the spleen and liver and, much slowly, the brain."
"Thus alum and other poorly biodegradable materials taken up at the periphery by phagocytes circulate in the lymphatic and blood circulation and can enter the brain using a Trojan horse mecha- nism similar to that used by infectious particles (68, 69). Previous experiments have shown that alum administration can cause CNS dysfunction and damage (70–72), casting doubts on the exact level of alum safety (73)."
Copy and paste into your browser:
file:///C:/Users/marsh/Downloads/fneur-06-00004-1.pdf
 
Here's the NIH's admission that they couldn't locate any studies that they felt established the safety of aluminum adjuvants: https://icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/20190719-HHS-Final-Response-IR0084-Appeal.pdf

So yes there's little wonder why you couldn't locate any ;)

Here's a white paper that pieces the science together to explain how aluminum adjuvants could cause autism:

Gherardi et. al. study explains that, and how aluminum ends up in the brain:

"Al was weakly eliminated in the urine (6% on day 28) and was detected in lymph nodes, spleen, liver, and
brain (13)."
"We successively performed i.m. injections of alum-containing vaccine, fluorescent latex beads, and fluorescent nanohybrids coated with precipitated alum (5). These materials were quickly captured by macrophages, a large
proportion of which cleaved the injected muscle, mainly within immune cells, reaching the draining lymph nodes. Particle-laden cells then escaped the lymphatic system to reach the blood circulation, presumably via the thoracic duct. In so-doing, they were able to reach distant organs such as the spleen and liver and, much slowly, the brain."
"Thus alum and other poorly biodegradable materials taken up at the periphery by phagocytes circulate in the lymphatic and blood circulation and can enter the brain using a Trojan horse mecha- nism similar to that used by infectious particles (68, 69). Previous experiments have shown that alum administration can cause CNS dysfunction and damage (70–72), casting doubts on the exact level of alum safety (73)."
Copy and paste into your browser:
file:///C:/Users/marsh/Downloads/fneur-06-00004-1.pdf
BWAHAHAHAHA!! I TOLD you to leave Christopher Shaw out of this and here you bring in Gherardi who

1) makes up diseases..."Autoimmune/inflammatory syndrome induced by adjuvants" LOL...

2) pals around with total fraud Andrew Wakefield

3) and "publishes" total crap with none other than the aforementioned Shaw. JFC...do better.

screen-shot-2019-03-10-at-11.09.34-am.png

Looky looky..Shaw had to retract again along with...who? Who is that last name?And this was a letter in response to criticism of their published paper. They can't even get THAT right. And the criticism of their work centered around their failure to disclose their affiliation with the anti-vaxx group that funded the study. Three of the authors are on the BOARD of that group and they didn't think that needed to be mentioned in their..."research"...as a potential conflict. So, you know, they fvcked that up, too.

BTW...that study..."Non-linear dose-response of aluminum hydroxide adjuvant particles: Selective low dose neurotoxicity"...suggests that HIGHER amounts of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines would be safe since the "effects" they observed completely disappeared at those higher doses. Weird, huh?

As for your NIH letter...are you f'n kidding? You're a dope.
 
BWAHAHAHAHA!! I TOLD you to leave Christopher Shaw out of this and here you bring in Gherardi who

1) makes up diseases..."Autoimmune/inflammatory syndrome induced by adjuvants" LOL...

2) pals around with total fraud Andrew Wakefield

3) and "publishes" total crap with none other than the aforementioned Shaw. JFC...do better.

screen-shot-2019-03-10-at-11.09.34-am.png

Looky looky..Shaw had to retract again along with...who? Who is that last name?And this was a letter in response to criticism of their published paper. They can't even get THAT right. And the criticism of their work centered around their failure to disclose their affiliation with the anti-vaxx group that funded the study. Three of the authors are on the BOARD of that group and they didn't think that needed to be mentioned in their..."research"...as a potential conflict. So, you know, they fvcked that up, too.

BTW...that study..."Non-linear dose-response of aluminum hydroxide adjuvant particles: Selective low dose neurotoxicity"...suggests that HIGHER amounts of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines would be safe since the "effects" they observed completely disappeared at those higher doses. Weird, huh?

As for your NIH letter...are you f'n kidding? You're a dope.
Whatever you say, skippy.
 
BTW...that study..."Non-linear dose-response of aluminum hydroxide adjuvant particles: Selective low dose neurotoxicity"...suggests that HIGHER amounts of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines would be safe since the "effects" they observed completely disappeared at those higher doses. Weird, huh?
If you have too high of a dose of aluminum, the body will mount a response called a granuloma that is much more efficient at eliminating the aluminum right at the injection site. Studies have shown that a smaller dose will not trigger such a response, actually making it harder for the body to effectively eliminate the aluminum dosage.
 
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If you have too high of a dose of aluminum, the body will mount a response called a granuloma that is much more efficient at eliminating the aluminum right at the injection site. Studies have shown that a smaller dose will not trigger such a response, actually making it harder for the body to effectively eliminate the aluminum dosage.
They found NO results at all from the higher dosage. Anywhere. No changes in ANY of the tests they ran. Not one. So the higher dosages - according to YOUR "peer-reviewed research" indicates that those higher dosages are perfectly safe.

They ran 36 subtests on their mice. Thirty-six. Six out of those thirty-six showed any significant differences in outcomes and some of those were at odds with the results from other tests they ran. And NONE of the thirty-six tests showed ANY significant changes at the higher dosages. Your own research. No evidence of ANY kind that it created any problems for the mice. Across a panel of thirty-six tests. Higher dosages must be safe. Unless YOU can present evidence that contradicts THESE idiots.

BTW, this just in. They presented their results in public in March of 2016 and published in November of that same year. In March the p-value between control and scary group 200 was 0.056.. This indicates a tendency...nothing more. In November of that same year it was published as being less than 0.05 to make it "significant". Oh...and there's more. The 133 group - the one that mimics the dosage for humans...it was in that March presentation. Take a look. How does IT stack up against the control? You'd think that an even lower dose would follow their "magic highway" to the brain, wouldn't you?

ob_a92392_g14.png


That group that was supposed to be equivalent to about 1 human dose of Al-containing vaccine...the group of mice that was supposed to mimic human conditions...MISSING from their published analysis completely. And the difference they did find? Magically reevaluated to make it "scarier".

Wonder why? Maybe they're just not good at this research thing and given the number of retractions Christopher Shaw has made, that would make sense. What makes even more sense is that the anti-vaxxer groups funding them are getting what they pay for. I wonder if your friends previously did research for the tobacco companies.
 
They found NO results at all from the higher dosage.
Found NO results? Indeed they did find results or they'd have nothing to publish.

They found NO results at all from the higher dosage. Anywhere. No changes in ANY of the tests they ran. Not one. So the higher dosages - according to YOUR "peer-reviewed research" indicates that those higher dosages are perfectly safe.

They ran 36 subtests on their mice. Thirty-six. Six out of those thirty-six showed any significant differences in outcomes and some of those were at odds with the results from other tests they ran. And NONE of the thirty-six tests showed ANY significant changes at the higher dosages. Your own research. No evidence of ANY kind that it created any problems for the mice. Across a panel of thirty-six tests. Higher dosages must be safe. Unless YOU can present evidence that contradicts THESE idiots.
Second, what did you not understand about my last post? From what I've read about in the past when enough aluminum is injected to form a granuloma, the body is extremely effective at eliminating the aluminum, but at the same time it does not allow for the vaccine to create the desired immune response to allow the vaccine to be effective. The aluminum dosage must fly under the granuloma radar, at a low dosage, where the body appears to have the most trouble with its elimination.
 
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Found NO results? Indeed they did find results or they'd have nothing to publish.
Not at dosages higher than the 200 group. That's what they DID publish
The aluminum dosage must fly under the granuloma radar, at a low dosage, where the body appears to have the most trouble with its elimination.
LOL...and yet, at the even lower dosage - the 133 group - designed to mimic what a human would actually get...they found nothing and eliminated those results completely when they published though they did present those results months earlier at a conference. You have yet to address that strange exclusion. You also have yet to address the strange shift in the p-value from one that indicates a trend to one that is supposedly significant. Magic?

ob_a92392_g14.png

In the 200 group, they found differences in six (6) out of THIRTY-SIX (36) tests; some of those results were at odds with results in other tests. Significant results for anxiety in the "open field" tests but not a single significant result on tests specifically designed to measure anxiety? Significant results on a single "grip strength" test but nothing on the other and nothing on the "wire mesh" hang test?

ob_5b30fd_g16.png


And, btw, a small correction - there were deemed to be significant results for the 400 group on two out of four tests which are at odds with their claims for a significant effect only at the low dose.

More crap science. What you're left with is a whole lot of cherry-picked nothing funded by an anti-vaxxer group that the authors "curiously" failed to disclose in their conflicts statement.
 
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From what I've read about in the past when enough aluminum is injected to form a granuloma, they are extremely effective at eliminating the aluminum from the body, but at the same time it does not allow for the vaccine to create the desired immune response to allow the vaccine to be effective.
Well...simple fix. When giving multiple vaccines, inject at different parts of the body for each. A single dose, according to your own authors doesn't result in any significant results and there's not going to be ANY granuloma formation at any site where there's just a single injection. Max benefit/zero risk. We're done here.
 
900px-Map01_Excess_Mortality_2022_Nov.png

Wonder why it's only Germany. The vaccines must respect political borders.
Meanwhile....Sweden - with the highest overall rates of two-doses of vaccines for 12 and up, had almost no excess deaths.

Almost like where you have vaccinations, deaths are lower...
 
Meanwhile....Sweden - with the highest overall rates of two-doses of vaccines for 12 and up, had almost no excess deaths.

Almost like where you have vaccinations, deaths are lower...
Sweden may not have had any. The color indicates 0 to less than 5% higher. And that level could be background noise.
 
Sweden may not have had any. The color indicates 0 to less than 5% higher. And that level could be background noise.
They are incurring more Covid deaths now, because their high vaccination rates were for only the 1st two doses, and the newer variants are able to sneak thru those. And they had 85%-90% coverage for the two doses for those 12 and up, with NO increases in mortality rates. Completely debunks the antivaxxers case here

So, from the "vaccines are killing everyone" perspective, Sweden proves that to be wrong. Sweden has NOT caught up on bi-valent vaccines at this point, which is why they are having another spike with those newer variants.
 
Oh looky...more "real science"!!

This random anecdote IS actually more credible than the mouse "study" touted earlier so there's that, I suppose.

More "real science"...I'm up-to-date on all my vaccines and have had zero complications. I'm publishing in JAMA next month.
So now we’re okay with personal experiences? Cause I’ve been slapped around over that a few times.

The truth is people are having adverse reactions to the COVID shots. It’s not 100% it’s probably closer to 1-2% than 100%. It’s also true people have died from COVID infections, it’s not 100% it’s closer to 1-2%

This is the ultimate game of pick your poison.
 
Oof. Turns out all that credit being assigned to the vaccine preventing Covid, was probably more likely from previous infection.

“Immunity acquired from a Covid infection provides strong, lasting protection against the most severe outcomes of the illness, according to research published Thursday in The Lancet — protection, experts say, that’s on par with what’s provided through two doses of an mRNA vaccine.

Infection-acquired immunity cut the risk of hospitalization and death from a Covid reinfection by 88% for at least 10 months, the study found.

The immunity generated from an infection was found to be “at least as high, if not higher” than that provided by two doses of an mRNA vaccine, the authors wrote.

While Murray and Wachter agreed that vaccination remains the safest route, having a past Covid infection should at least be considered in policymaking decisions going forward, such as vaccination requirements, they said.

“What Europe did with this evidence made a lot of sense, which is where evidence of past infection was seen as essentially equal to vaccination in terms of requirements to go into events or for employment,” Murray said.

At the very least, he added, officials should accept that evidence of recent infection is equivalent to vaccination. “

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...ective-covid-vaccine-severe-illness-rcna71027
 
Infection-acquired immunity cut the risk of hospitalization and death from a Covid reinfection by 88% for at least 10 months, the study found.
Holy shit...can you post anything dumber than this? What about the folks that don't survive the FIRST infection to be protected against a REINFECTION? And absent some evidence of a past infection, you are - once again - giving your idiots a free pass to remain unvaccinated regardless of their past. "Sure! I had Covid" *wink*
 
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Oof. Turns out all that credit being assigned to the vaccine preventing Covid, was probably more likely from previous infection.
experts say, that’s on par with what’s provided through two doses of an mRNA vaccine.
The immunity generated from an infection was found to be “at least as high, if not higher” than that provided by two doses of an mRNA vaccine,
the authors wrote.

While Murray and Wachter agreed that vaccination remains the safest route, having a past Covid infection should at least be considered in policymaking decisions going forward, such as vaccination requirements, they said.
At the very least, he added, officials should accept that evidence of recent infection is equivalent to vaccination.
 
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